EPT[G] Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics - Page 52
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JWBS
England24 Posts
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On September 08 2012 01:36 Namelless wrote: thats looks like a very cool variaton, especially for TvZ because there are my biggest problems as said before, i will try this a few times at custom and later at ladder, but the question i have to this variaton is the following: if i did understand you right, you still get stim and a combination of 2rax-reactor, 1rax-techlab MMM, and add the mech not before you have enough gas to build it without losing sight of your MMM production (dont know if this was correct english) :/ so i think this will be at something around 6-9 minutes? but i think when adding mech the baneling-bust is already done, so it only counters to the mass roach timing push (where tanks/hellions are not the best conter too, are they?) but it seems to me that it won't take advantage of baneling busts? or do you recommend to add a few hellions while skipping some reactor-marine rounds, out of your 1 factory with no addons, when it is built(the factory)? No, in TvZ I don't build bio except marines from the first Rax. So the Buildorder is (very roughly and without supply numbers): Depot, Rax, Depot, OC, Expansion CC (upto here it's the normal 1Rax FE that Filter uses aswell, but now I start to branch out with) double gas, bunker at natural, Factory (@100gas), 2nd Factory (@another 100gas), Depots on demand. So I stay on that single Rax from the 1RaxFE and never build additional ones. Usually I put a TL on the first Factory and get Siegetanks, but if I scout a Baneling Bust I can go panic and build just Hellions. I'd recommend to add more bunkers as soon as you scout a Baneling Bust still. After I have Tanks and Hellions production running I add a Starport with TL for Banshees when I can afford it. Btw, I don't cut Marines either. I just build 1 at a time out of the 1 Rax to have them there for defense. I think I read somewhere that you're german, but maybe I mix you up with someone else. If I'm right and you still have problems to understand, what I mean, just pm me and I can write you in german. | ||
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enanoretozon
Panama57 Posts
On September 08 2012 05:09 JWBS wrote: Nah man ignore that guy 49 benchmarks is alright. I don't think he knows what alright means. You can't be perfect every time can you? What, you going to gg out every time you hit 10.00 in ladder and you've only got 48 scvs? This kind of thinking will get you nowhere (not that hypothetical I just put forward, but the notion that it all hinges on this mechanical playstyle). If that were the case we could all be in masters by hitting the benchmarks couldn't we? It's nothing like as simple. The 50 benchmark is an ideal standard at which your performance can be judged. If 52 is optimal and 50 is ideal then 49 is most certainly better than "alright". I used to believe that 48 was kinda ok but then I did the math and it turns out that with an expo at 3:45 and substrating the 35 seconds that both orbitals take it should be enough time to hit 53 and a half scvs by 10 mins. Getting 48 means 1 minute 25 seconds of combined downtime for both ccs. 5 scvs is ~200 minerals per minute worth of income. That amounts to an extra cc in 2 mins, or almost 3 extra rax. Those things add up and missing 5 scvs is a hint that there's a supply block somewhere or idle ccs. When I started to practice with these vids I must confess that I have moved up to the platinum vid without hitting all the marks thinking ah 48 is ok or that slightly delayed gas is ok. The thing is that on games against actual people those 48 scvs with pressure can easily turn into 43-45 and then things start to fall apart. So I went back to the bronze marks on an empty map, and sure enough 53 was very possible, did that a few times, then silver until I got 53 and my medivacs popped at 10, and now I'm working on adding the engy and +1 while making sure I still get at least 52. Played a couple games against a friend and now things are much smoother. Even with pressure I still make at least 50. Obviously if you happen to make 48 in a ladder game you're not gonna gg out just because, but the whole point of this series is to get better, not to win a particular match, so I mark those games as fail even if I happen to win. | ||
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JWBS
England24 Posts
So essentially you're saying that 53 is the minimum acceptable number of scvs produced by 10.00, since that's also the maximum possible number on 2 CC? | ||
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enanoretozon
Panama57 Posts
On September 08 2012 08:16 JWBS wrote: What does substrating mean? I've never heard that term before and looking it up I can't make sense of it in the context of your post. So essentially you're saying that 53 is the minimum acceptable number of scvs produced by 10.00, since that's also the maximum possible number on 2 CC? "substracting", typo  Nah, what I'm saying is that with a cc at 3:45 which is the latest one should drop it there's still enough time to have 54 training at 10:00. Typically one can drop that cc a bit earlier even without fancy mining micro, so assuming constant production, even allows for some margin of error and still hitting that 53, at least until the gold benchmark that I've tried. So even assuming that the higher benchmarks are more demanding in minerals I think there's really no reason not to hit 52. What I realized when I played back my 48 scv replays was that there were gaps that set me back much more than I thought. Things like a slight supply block. Sometimes a bit of idle time here and there adds up. However, once I made sure that I always had 2 making and 2 in queue (and since scvs have priority queuing is ok), and made sure I was never supply blocked, 52-53 started happening every time, and I'm just a regular guy with crappy apm. | ||
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Autofire2
Pakistan290 Posts
And I STILL took five tries in a completely non pressure environment. Damn. Nowhere near the 100 food mark at 10 minutes. I mean, ok im at 92 but my experience with the SCVs teaches me that those last 8 arent going to be a walk in the park. lol don't remember silver league ever being this hard... | ||
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Gr1dlock
United States19 Posts
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
What does this mean? I can promote to gold even if am silver place 100? Every silver zerg can reach 100supply at 10min mark nowadays, me too. Protoss with ~80supply @10min. | ||
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enanoretozon
Panama57 Posts
On September 14 2012 06:33 Autofire2 wrote: Hey guys! Five tries later and ive now HIT 50. I get it now. More than the actual mineral benefits (lets face it, NO ONE in bronze or even silver, where I was for most of my career before being promoted to gold and then stopping, makes 50 SCVs in 10 minutes) of 50 over 48, it teaches you JUST HOW BAD YOU ARE. Oh my god, five tries against a very easy computer to get to 50? When the optimal possible is 53? Seriously, literally all you have to do is do your build WITHOUT getting supplyblocked and WITHOUT missing an scv (filter even allows keeping 1 queued at all times). And I STILL took five tries in a completely non pressure environment. Damn. Nowhere near the 100 food mark at 10 minutes. I mean, ok im at 92 but my experience with the SCVs teaches me that those last 8 arent going to be a walk in the park. lol don't remember silver league ever being this hard... That's awesome man. To practice there's a nice map in the Arcade called filtersc trainer. It has timers for bronze, silver and gold to help out with the benchmarks (example: http://i.imgur.com/1A3uW.jpg) and at any time you can press Ctrl-R to reset the map. Also tells you in chat how many scvs you have made. | ||
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Autofire2
Pakistan290 Posts
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EtOHic
Germany9 Posts
On September 14 2012 21:11 Autofire2 wrote: One question: I know filter said it was cool to have 1 scv queued to make sure you don't miss any. Is it also ok to have one marine queued at each rax after you build the second and third? Its only minerals which I seem to have too many off and I have TERRIBLE rine production at this point. This is definitely fine, especially at lower levels. Just like with scvs it's better to have a a few minerals banked to ensure constant production than to have idle facilities. And if you're prone to forgetting to macro while microing (like I am, and am working on it!) i find it helps to queue up a whole heap before you engage. | ||
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StateofReverie
United States633 Posts
On September 14 2012 21:11 Autofire2 wrote: One question: I know filter said it was cool to have 1 scv queued to make sure you don't miss any. Is it also ok to have one marine queued at each rax after you build the second and third? Its only minerals which I seem to have too many off and I have TERRIBLE rine production at this point. Perfectly good thing to do so that you have constant production going even while you are microing a battle you will still have units going. Just don't get into a habit of starting to que up 2-3 marines at a time because that will seriously hamper the effeciency of your build | ||
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Autofire2
Pakistan290 Posts
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enanoretozon
Panama57 Posts
On September 15 2012 07:34 Autofire2 wrote: Awesome. Thanks! BTW what about reactored rax? Does one queue up one, or two, or not at all? One thing I've found out about rax and queuing is that since marines/marauders take ~30 seconds to train as opposed to 17 seconds for scvs it's a lot easier to get a few things done in that time and come back before the buildings are idle. Edit: what I'm saying is that if you can manage not to queue, that's ideal as you have the income available for other things, and that it's a lot easier not to queue marines than scvs. | ||
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
Once I can hit the Silver benchmarks 2-3 times in a row, I'll move on to Gold, practice that a little, then hit ladder. Gonna watch your last Zerg video tomorrow. Hope the next one comes out in a few weeks or less, since by then I aim to be Plat That being said, I could always make my own goals at Plat, like adjusting the build to take a third at standard timings, branching out to different ZvT and ZvP builds, and adjusting macro standards accordingly. Then at Diamond, start using standard unit comps, including banes, infestors, mutas, all those difficult-to-use units. I actually find banes very easy to use, but infestors? Man. Infestors. I'm so glad you don't incorporate infestors, because they are literally just a waste of good gas for a player like me. | ||
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chaknow
United States7 Posts
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
That being said, if you are gold/plat, you should just go through each set of benchmarks in turn. Watch video 1, and then when you meet that benchmark vs. AI, go to video 3. When you meet that, go to videos 5-6. That's what I'm doing, and it's working well so far: Already found a couple of bad macro habits. | ||
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Autofire2
Pakistan290 Posts
He gg'd out because I could reinforce my army (i added an extra four rax coz why not) immediately and indefinitely, and I dont think he had anything left in the bank. Thanks filter! | ||
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chaknow
United States7 Posts
On September 16 2012 23:18 Salivanth wrote: Chaknow: You can find the ZvT/ZvP benchmarks in video 5. I assume ZvZ is in video 6 based on the title, but I haven't actually watched it yet, so I can't be 100% sure. That being said, if you are gold/plat, you should just go through each set of benchmarks in turn. Watch video 1, and then when you meet that benchmark vs. AI, go to video 3. When you meet that, go to videos 5-6. That's what I'm doing, and it's working well so far: Already found a couple of bad macro habits. Thanks! Yeah I intended to go through all of them, I just was curious to see where I stood for the bracket I am supposed to be in. | ||
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BongChambers
Canada591 Posts
Thank you so much filter and I hope you don't stop creating your wonderful guides !! | ||
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