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On October 12 2012 14:54 Siggen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 14:40 TheSituasian wrote:
So what's a good counter to this PvT? Assuming similar skill levels and constant production I feel toss has difficulty fighting these 10 minute pushes simply because we can't early harass because we'll just get owned by range and number. I'm asking because as p I've used similar strategy, and noticed many many many terrans are using your "just macro and push at 10" strategy... Multiple times I've talked to t post game and they say they're using what they learned from you. Anyways as toss I feel I just have an extremely difficult time fending off so many marines and medivacs. If I try rushing colossi. I can't have many units and colossi will die quick. If I make too many units I won't be able to compete in macro... While I can win sometimes, its only because my opponent really took your videos to heart and made marines with no upgrades, but sucked at macro..
However against players who macro nearly perfectly I have a hell of a time against it often losing... On top of the fact that I don't want to do any sort of cheesy all ins which are probably the best solutions. The counter to this build is Nexus. We can not punish you until 10 min either. P have chronoboost. Look at how Parting plays!
I'd like to add that you can use Sentries to block your ramps/chokes with Forcefields and keep the terran out until you have a nice army with some Colossi (not rushing Colossi really, but get a few out (like 1 or 2 at 10:00 and adding more and more). Having a bunch of Stalkers with the Sentries should keep him from picking up and dropping behind the Forcefields.
On a sidenote: You can switch the Colossi with HTs with Storm, if that's easier to get in time.
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From my experience in mid-high master against terran, fast Colossus openings (after a 1 gate nexus expand) are the safest way to play on most maps. As long as you have 3-4 sentries and use forcefields, you can hold ramps with zealot+sentry+colossus and then use 4-5 stalkers to defend drops. The key is using observers to scout for your unit positioning though.
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On October 13 2012 01:03 DudeManAl wrote:
From my experience in mid-high master against terran, fast Colossus openings (after a 1 gate nexus expand) are the safest way to play on most maps. As long as you have 3-4 sentries and use forcefields, you can hold ramps with zealot+sentry+colossus and then use 4-5 stalkers to defend drops. The key is using observers to scout for your unit positioning though.
Yup, and the push usually leaves the Terran base at 10 minutes. This means you need to get a Colossus by 11 or so. Rushing for them will actually screw you over because you won't have much to defend the Colossus with. Being able to have 1 out and consistent Colossus production by 11 minutes or so will be a big advantage. Also remember that you can't really go double forge with Colossus openings. If you try to go double forge you won't have enough units to hold it off.
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Just like to say thanks for putting these together! My play has improved dramatically just from watching one video! Great job Filter.
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I'm a Diamond Protoss player -- been doing the zerg version of this for a little bit, and I'm...shocked.
Beating high diamond players literally just by injecting, a-moving and doing some very limited micro just to snipe immortals/sentries. The timings I've been hitting, with Zerg, I think I would probably struggle to hold off some of these attacks. And I'm not perfect with overlords just yet.
Macro is scary.
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Thanks for posting this! I can't really play SC2 right now because i don't have my own computer yet but when i can i'll try this stuff out! although macro is scary D:
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Hi all. Just wanted to say a massive thank you to Filter, and give you guys an example of how damn useful this guide actually is!
To give you an idea of my 'starcraft career' I had played the game on and off for about a year, and was in high silver at the end of last season when a kind soul (who thrashed me in a ladder match with 102 supply worth of upgraded mmm/tank at 10 mins) suggested I look up FilterSC on youtube,
I would have to recommend anyone to watch dApollo's extremely helpful 'working up from the bronze league' tutorials on youtube - they will undoubtedly teach you 101 things you didn't know about the game which will help in your execution of builds and strategies. There are also other quality tutorials available. However as identified by Filter, all you are doing is trying to copy the style of a pro who ultimately, can play a lot better than you.
Starting at the bottom, Filter shows an easy to achieve way to progress through each leqgue, starting simple and focussing on macro, then adding in additional elements of gameplay as you go along, building upon the previous lessons.
I placed gold in the new season a week after going through the first couple of videos, and was promoted to platinum maybe two weeks later. I am currently ranked 9 and rising in platinum league having slowed down progression; which I attribute directly to my own problems with scouting and need to revisit the tutorials to address this!.
Thank you Filter
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Can we get a series like this for Protoss? That would be amazing. K, thx. 
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I feel kind of bad of posting the next comments because let's face it, these videos are awesome. They're almost perfect (for a n00b like me!) !
However, I watched episode 1 & 2 and went to play 15 games vs. a very easy CPU, just to get used to this build. Since I've played almost 250 1v1 games a year a go, I know the basics. Using hotkeys for buildings, unit groups, etc. I'm no expert, I'm still confused with using 'em, BUT, I know how to use them. When I'm one-basing, I'm fine, but when there is two CCs on "4", it can gets quite ugly.
Anyway, when I played last year, I was able to finish top 8 in my division of the Bronze League. That's quite a feat for a noob like I am.
So, I decided since my GF started to work night shifts. Since I'm a bit bored when she's not around, I decided I would play SC2 and I would make the best effort I can to get to Silver, then Gold! For NOW, my goal is to get to Gold League and be competitive in that league. I decided to come here, since TeamLiquid.Net is the best SC2 website on the web and I saw this thread. So like I said, I practiced for about 15 games and everything went well.
I was able to start my 2nd CC at about ~3:45-3:50 and almost always had 50 SCVs (always in the range of 47-52 SCVs) by the 10:00 mark. I was saying to myself: "Great! My mechanics are improving!" But, man, I was SO wrong ! I decided to take my new skills (lol!) to the ladder. NOT GREAT AT ALL!
I went with an army of ~50 marines at the 12:00 mark and got pwned! 3 times! Against Terran, Zerg & Terran respectively. So I'm kind of confused. After I watched filter's video, he simply crushed both of his opponents with this build, without gas, just marines... how come I could'nt do the same? Am I missing something?
Please let me know
By the way filter, thanks for sharing your knowledge of the game, I really appreciate. I love when people, like you, or Day[9] share tips for us, noobs.
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I think you'll need to upload a replay. Was there any splash damage dealer involved? Like banelings / siegetanks / collossi? Or did you attack into any sort of defense that was very efficient?
If you want to go marines only I'd do it only vsZ and vsP. Terran has bunkers which can stop your marines that don't have stim and later on tank lines are nearly unbreakable. VsZ you will constantly need to put up pressure and split your marines just a bit if there are banelings. I can't tell you the exact number since I have played it months ago, but 15-20 seems reasonable.
Same is true against a protoss opponent, but there you'll probably only have a limited time to do so, because collossi will destroy your marines. Therefore do an early attack versus protoss with a handful of marines 7 iirc. If you improved you could still try marines only vsP after around 12min, but you'll need upgrades (stim & combat shield then attack & armor). On the other hand I'd advise you to push with marines&marauders around 10min with stim&cs&+1attack.
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On October 22 2012 21:53 Qube wrote:
I went with an army of ~50 marines at the 12:00 mark and got pwned! 3 times! Against Terran, Zerg & Terran respectively. So I'M kind of confused. After I watched filter'S video, he simply crushed both of his opponents with this build, without Gas, just marines... how come I could'nt do the same? Am I missing something?
Link the replays. People can't help you if they can't see what happened. Running 50 marines into a minimally defended base would play out a lot different than running 50 marines into a base with sieged tanks on the high ground.
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You guys are right. I'll try to upload the replays... but I'm afraid I'll be judged and prolly I'll get stones thrown at me haha! I remember that against Terrans, yes, the guy had plenty of Siege Tanks, lot of splash damage! And he also had a PF in his 2nd. My marines got pwned, for real!
In the second game, I was against Zerg and the guy had a sh**load of Spore Crawler at the ramp of his 2nd, and I got pwned. I didn't micro at all, like the videos said in both games.
I'll play some more game tonight using the same tactic as in episode 1 & 2 and I'll upload the replays... I should have a few hours to play tonight from 6 Eastern Time!
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On October 22 2012 21:53 Qube wrote:I feel kind of bad of posting the next comments because let's face it, these videos are awesome. They're almost perfect (for a n00b like me!) ! However, I watched episode 1 & 2 and went to play 15 games vs. a very easy CPU, just to get used to this build. Since I've played almost 250 1v1 games a year a go, I know the basics. Using hotkeys for buildings, unit groups, etc. I'm no expert, I'm still confused with using 'em, BUT, I know how to use them. When I'm one-basing, I'm fine, but when there is two CCs on "4", it can gets quite ugly. Anyway, when I played last year, I was able to finish top 8 in my division of the Bronze League. That's quite a feat for a noob like I am. So, I decided since my GF started to work night shifts. Since I'm a bit bored when she's not around, I decided I would play SC2 and I would make the best effort I can to get to Silver, then Gold! For NOW, my goal is to get to Gold League and be competitive in that league. I decided to come here, since TeamLiquid.Net is the best SC2 website on the web and I saw this thread. So like I said, I practiced for about 15 games and everything went well. I was able to start my 2nd CC at about ~3:45-3:50 and almost always had 50 SCVs (always in the range of 47-52 SCVs) by the 10:00 mark. I was saying to myself: "Great! My mechanics are improving!" But, man, I was SO wrong ! I decided to take my new skills (lol!) to the ladder. NOT GREAT AT ALL! I went with an army of ~50 marines at the 12:00 mark and got pwned! 3 times! Against Terran, Zerg & Terran respectively. So I'm kind of confused. After I watched filter's video, he simply crushed both of his opponents with this build, without gas, just marines... how come I could'nt do the same? Am I missing something? Please let me know By the way filter, thanks for sharing your knowledge of the game, I really appreciate. I love when people, like you, or Day[9] share tips for us, noobs.
Did you mean that your 50 marine army arived at the 12 minut mark, or did you leave your base at that time? In the later case 50 marines is pretty bad. In filters video, he has around 50 at the 10 minut mark.
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On October 22 2012 22:29 Frosthaze wrote:
Did you mean that your 50 marine army arived at the 12 minut mark, or did you leave your base at that time? In the later case 50 marines is pretty bad. In filters video, he has around 50 at the 10 minut mark.
Even if you left your base at 10:00... what are those marines doing to arrive at the opponent 2 minutes later? Having a beer on the way?  Honestly... 12:00 with 50 Marines sounded kinda few to me, too.
Apart from that... this is a training build... especially the Marines only. I'd recommend to get to the Silver Build when you hit the Bronze benchmarks vs AI consistently.
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Lol. I thought I was alright, but I guess I wasn't. You guys are right, they are LEAVING the main base @10:00 and he have 50 marines. I got to practice again I guess. I don't miss SCV tho, that's quite encouraging! I make pretty good transfer between the 1st and second base, good usage of MULE. My problem is building the barrack and get to 50 Marines @10:00 and make a push.
I understand what you guys mean about that 12:00 mark. If they leave at 12:00, they won't be at enemy base before 12:30-13:00 and it's quite late.
Thanks for the input, I'll work on that tonight I want to have good mechanics before trying to use a build. I really want to have good reflexes and use the hotkeys as much as I can.
Is there a way, once you have two CCs on hotkey "4" to switch between the two bases...? I mean, if you double-tap "4", it'll center the map on one CC, is there a way to do the same, but, switching between the 2 CCs (or maybe 3, 4 CCs, etc.) using the hotkey?
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On October 22 2012 22:50 Qube wrote:
Is there a way, once you have two CCs on hotkey "4" to switch between the two bases...? I mean, if you double-tap "4", it'll center the map on one CC, is there a way to do the same, but, switching between the 2 CCs (or maybe 3, 4 CCs, etc.) using the hotkey?
You could use location hotkeys. You can set them in the hotkeys menu, I think they are standard set to F5 and up. So if you do ctrl+F5, it will save that exact camera position you are looking at to F5. In this way you can have your main on F5, second base on F6 and ramp on F7 for example.
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I didn't think about these. However, is this the only way?
Just because I'm not familiar with the mechanics of using the hotkeys... I'd like to focus on the "basics" one... Buildings groups & Unit groups. I would include theses Fx keys later in my process.
If it's the only way, then, I'll have to include them faster in my learning process Thanks for the suggestion
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On October 23 2012 00:07 Qube wrote:I didn't think about these. However, is this the only way? Just because I'm not familiar with the mechanics of using the hotkeys... I'd like to focus on the "basics" one... Buildings groups & Unit groups. I would include theses Fx keys later in my process. If it's the only way, then, I'll have to include them faster in my learning process Thanks for the suggestion
You can tab between the two CC's on the hotkey I assume the same way you can tab between hatcheries on the same hotkey. When you double tap the hotkey your camera centers on the last Hatch/CC that was added to the control group. You can then use the base camera key to cycle through the CC's, centering the camera on a different CC every time you press the base camera key. The default base camera key is backspace.
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I'll try to use this! Thanks a lot!
Gotta respect the natural CC @3:45 & 50Marines, 50SCVs @10:00 and try to do my best and use the Fx hotkeys!
Also, be sure to push with my marines @10:00 for a fast push!
I got three hours to practice this, I should be fine with the basic mechanics!
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Okay, here is some update from my gaming night.
I spent an hour practicing what filter do in the first 2 eps. Everything went kinda well. I was able to get 50 SCVs @10:00 with about 40 Marines or so. Everything went well, so I decided I would go try that on the ladder!
1st Game: I had 45 SCVs & 38 Marines @10:00. My opponent had 21 SCVs & 26 Marines. His 2nd CC was about to land, and he was guarding the ramp with 23 Marines. I pushed @11:00, there was a "big" fight, some of my Marines survived so I took his workers at his nat and went for the main base and got killed because of his Tanks & Marines. I pushed again @14:00 and won.
2nd Game: I had 46 SCVs & 30 Marines @10:00. My opponent had 27 SCVs & 12 Marines, but guarding his ramp were 3 full bunkers. His 2nd CC was at about 80% complete. I pushed @10:20, got owned badly by the tanks & bunkers. I completely changed plan by getting gas, marauders, medivac and stuff and finally won @30:00. I was kind of nervous there. My macro sucked so bad... oh well! 
3rd Game: I had 44SCVs & 29 Marines @10:00. My opponent had 17 SCVs & 11 Marines, guarding the ramp were 2 full Bunkers. His 2nd CC was at about 25% complete. Then again, pushed @10:00, and got pwned. Like the previous game, I got gas and units, maxed out and went to his base. Took a couple of tries to get him, but I finally pwned him.
I uploaded the replays on drop.sc, here are the links:
http://drop.sc/267047
http://drop.sc/267048
http://drop.sc/267049
Don't worry, I know I'm reaaaaally bad so don't be afraid posting any negative inputs. I'm a grown man and can take critics. I know I won every games I played tonight, but I know there is some stuff I got to work on. Let me know what you think guys!
Thanks guys!
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EPT
