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On July 25 2012 21:38 JWBS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 15:22 Qibla wrote:http://drop.sc/223670Here is a replay where my 10 minute attack is utterly demolished. I Hit the 50 scv benchmark, have 1 tank 1 medi and a bunch of rines. I move out across the map, he meets me half way with a bunch of lings and banes while I'm back in my base looking to add production. He doesn't completely destroy my attack, but it doesn't matter because he has 4 bases to my 2, and spines in his main to defend my counter drop, and also a millioin banes and lings morphing in, and I also scout his infestation pit has gone down. As far as I could see I was doomed from the start with this build. Yeah he pretty much rolled you didn't he? That's what they often do to me too. I know I'm not good at this game, I've only played for about a month and only started looking for proper build orders in the last week, but the zerg I'm playing are also apparently on the same scrub level as me, yet somehow I'm supposed to be able to split like a demon and all they have to know is how to morph banelings and A-move  p.s great guides Filter, I'm using the build order you recommend and it's helping me get better.
I feel exactly the same(though I'm in Masters). TvZ has been my favourite matchup since the start of the game but it's just frustrating now. Whether they make ~30 lings early on when I have ~10 marines and just a-move, get lots of banelings+lings by the 10 min mark and a-move(and you will die if you're not in your base protected by depots).
I've had some success with Filter's "mass" hellion build(he shows it in TvZ build variations, which is the third one I think) and you should try it out. It's a lot of fun to play at least. TvZ is still frustrating but every once in a while when you roast 60 lings or 20 drones you know it's all worth it.
Thanks to Filter for the great guides
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Hi im a top ranked silver using filters terran guides, and up until about 3 days i have been getting steamrolled by zerg practically every game, until i came across a pretty decent build that low level zergs have trouble stopping. 1 rax fe into 2 port banshee with blueflame helions.
open with the 1 rax fe as normal, and add on the usual 2 extra rax after the 15 cc and go straight into 3 gas after the rax, add a tech lab on 1 rax for stim and CS and a reactor for ur first factory, then build 2 starports with tech labs immediatly and another tech lab on ur 3rd rax for ur second factory and start pumping out banshees (get cloak if the zerg doesnt have spores for an easy win) while pumping out hellions and marines, add a 2nd factory to ur 3rd rax tech lab for blue flame. once u have about 6-8 banshees and 10+ helions u should be safe to move out with both ur helions and banshees, leaving ur rines back home for safety or move out with ur rines for a kill.
the only problem with this build is if he is already going mutas. but this should finish the zerg off or do enough eco damage to win u the game.
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Hi im a top ranked silver using filters terran guides, and up until about 3 days i have been getting steamrolled by zerg practically every game, until i came across a pretty decent build that low level zergs have trouble stopping. 1 rax fe into 2 port banshee with blueflame helions.
You dont understand the puropse of Filters build. The purpose is learnig the basics of good macro. What you are doing is an all-in. Thats exactly the opposite of what you should learn. Filters build is less about winning and more about learning. You failed.
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@michlin: When I started out with this guide I a-moved marines through banelings and won, just practice dat macro!
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On July 26 2012 17:06 Charon1979 wrote:Show nested quote +Hi im a top ranked silver using filters terran guides, and up until about 3 days i have been getting steamrolled by zerg practically every game, until i came across a pretty decent build that low level zergs have trouble stopping. 1 rax fe into 2 port banshee with blueflame helions. You dont understand the puropse of Filters build. The purpose is learnig the basics of good macro. What you are doing is an all-in. Thats exactly the opposite of what you should learn. Filters build is less about winning and more about learning. You failed.
If he keeps to the benchmarks and has a followup plan, it doesn't matter imo. It's not like he says "at one point take all your Banshees, Hellions, Marines and SCVs and go wipe him or lose".
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On July 26 2012 17:06 Charon1979 wrote:Show nested quote +Hi im a top ranked silver using filters terran guides, and up until about 3 days i have been getting steamrolled by zerg practically every game, until i came across a pretty decent build that low level zergs have trouble stopping. 1 rax fe into 2 port banshee with blueflame helions. You dont understand the puropse of Filters build. The purpose is learnig the basics of good macro. What you are doing is an all-in. Thats exactly the opposite of what you should learn. Filters build is less about winning and more about learning. You failed.
You don't understand how the 1 Rax FE into 2 Port Banshee works. But at the same time i don't think michlin really understands it either. The idea behind it is to be able to go Pure Mech but still be able to put on decent pressure quite early in the game and since hellions aren't as good anymore since the queen buff banshees are used instead. If you are going Pure Mech you do not need the extra 2 rax or the upgrades for the marines. This means you can get faster gas and therefore faster banshees/cloak/factories/blue-flame (i.e. faster everything mech lol).
Anyway the key point is that it is not all in at all. It is purely designed to be a way to put on pressure while going into mech at the same time. Quite a lot of Pros have been experimenting with the build but it hasn't really become standard play by any means quite yet.
The purpose of Filters videos is to teach you good mechanics. It doesn't matter what build you do. It's probably more beneficial to your learning if you have more than one build or else you just go into auto pilot mode for that one build and it stops teaching you mechanics and just teaches you how to repeat the same build each game. I remember when i hit platinum from bronze after a month. The original build was starting to hit walls, especially in TvZ. I started learning new builds but found it quite hard for the first week or so because i had become so used to Filters build that i had stopped thinking about what i was doing, and when i had to learn new builds my macro started slipping again. I started playing a lot of games where i didn't even have a set build order and i found this helped my mechanics a lot because i would have to properly think about what i need to build and when in order to get the units and upgrades i want. Gas timings were always the hardest to get right on the fly. 1 refinery too early and you end up banking lots of gas and don't have enough minerals, 1 refinery too late and you don't have enough gas for constant production and have excess minerals.
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On July 27 2012 00:24 Captain Marksie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 17:06 Charon1979 wrote:Hi im a top ranked silver using filters terran guides, and up until about 3 days i have been getting steamrolled by zerg practically every game, until i came across a pretty decent build that low level zergs have trouble stopping. 1 rax fe into 2 port banshee with blueflame helions. You dont understand the puropse of Filters build. The purpose is learnig the basics of good macro. What you are doing is an all-in. Thats exactly the opposite of what you should learn. Filters build is less about winning and more about learning. You failed. You don't understand how the 1 Rax FE into 2 Port Banshee works. But at the same time i don't think michlin really understands it either. The idea behind it is to be able to go Pure Mech but still be able to put on decent pressure quite early in the game and since hellions aren't as good anymore since the queen buff banshees are used instead. If you are going Pure Mech you do not need the extra 2 rax or the upgrades for the marines. This means you can get faster gas and therefore faster banshees/cloak/factories/blue-flame (i.e. faster everything mech lol). Anyway the key point is that it is not all in at all. It is purely designed to be a way to put on pressure while going into mech at the same time. Quite a lot of Pros have been experimenting with the build but it hasn't really become standard play by any means quite yet. The purpose of Filters videos is to teach you good mechanics. It doesn't matter what build you do. It's probably more beneficial to your learning if you have more than one build or else you just go into auto pilot mode for that one build and it stops teaching you mechanics and just teaches you how to repeat the same build each game. I remember when i hit platinum from bronze after a month. The original build was starting to hit walls, especially in TvZ. I started learning new builds but found it quite hard for the first week or so because i had become so used to Filters build that i had stopped thinking about what i was doing, and when i had to learn new builds my macro started slipping again. I started playing a lot of games where i didn't even have a set build order and i found this helped my mechanics a lot because i would have to properly think about what i need to build and when in order to get the units and upgrades i want. Gas timings were always the hardest to get right on the fly. 1 refinery too early and you end up banking lots of gas and don't have enough minerals, 1 refinery too late and you don't have enough gas for constant production and have excess minerals.
i know filters guide is to help improve terrans macro game, and as i stated, it greatly helped my play, but the build does have its limits and terrans need to learn to adapt from it, and im just saying a build that i have found that works for me as the person i was replying to was also having problems with the filter build vs zerg, and was just trying to offer a little bit of input on a build that i found works for me
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Filter's build is pretty good against some T if you can hold off 1-1-1 or early siege tanks, and it's decent against zerg at low levels if you go hellion expand imo. Yes, hellion feels bad against queens, it might be outdated for high levels of play, but they will show your hand if you poke the front just a litttle. They might over react and you'll see a bunch of roaches or lings and you'll know a bust is coming soon, you can also kill creep and deny a third because in my replays, lowbie zerg love to take a third so i just sit maybe 2 hellions on their third. His build is really good against protoss since it is bio based. Just make sure to snag a ghost academy with +energy after getting your 5th and 6th gas.
Just make sure to not forget your probes and pylons past 10 min. and if you're going pure bio or biomech, make sure to make 3.5 buildings per base and don't forget your upgrades.
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Thank you filtersc for providing such a detailed guide on how to improve! I have a problem though, I'm currently at the gold benchmarks for Terran. I can execute them no problem against AI, but if it comes to ladder it falls apart when lots of things are going on. I can execute it if I don't get harrassed/scout stupid things etc.
The problem I have is, that I'm now top 8 platinum and facing diamond players most of the time. Due to the fact that I can't execute it properly everytime I hesitate to move up to the platin benchmarks. I feel that if I would still be playing gold players, they wouldn't be able to put lots of pressure on me and I would hit the benchmarks more often. Do you guys think its time to move up or should I keep practicing only the gold benchmarks?
tl/dr: Should I move up to platinum benchmarks when facing diamond opponents with the gold build and not beeing able to execute it under lots of pressure?
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It kind of depends. If you don't hit the benchmarks because the build lacks, then try adjust the build. If you don't hit the benchmarks because you simply cannot keep up, then keep practicing until you do, because you wouldn't hit the plat benchmarks either.
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Yeah that makes sense, surprised how difficult that stuff actually is. thanks!
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I Love this series, Have sent it to a terran playing mate.
And am using concepts in my protoss play as much as I can. I definitely can't wait for the Protoss version 
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I have so much problems versus banelings. Just had a game where I was 30 army supply ahead but lose it all to mass banelings. I'm doing the silver build. Also I find it hard to know what to do after 10 mins. I usually end up with oversaturated mineral lines and bad expansion timings.
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On July 28 2012 05:11 Hylirion wrote:
I have so much problems versus banelings. Just had a game where I was 30 army supply ahead but lose it all to mass banelings. I'm doing the silver build. Also I find it hard to know what to do after 10 mins. I usually end up with oversaturated mineral lines and bad expansion timings.
The only thing to do against banelings really is to learn how to split marines. There are some great tutorials on youtube on it, and day9 did a newbie tuesday on it, think it's called simply "Newbie Tuesday: Banelings".
If your enemy isn't dead or nearly dead at 12 minutes, after you do a 10 minute stim push with 100 food, you may as well surrender and find another game
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On July 27 2012 09:46 XythOs wrote:
Thank you filtersc for providing such a detailed guide on how to improve! I have a problem though, I'm currently at the gold benchmarks for Terran. I can execute them no problem against AI, but if it comes to ladder it falls apart when lots of things are going on. I can execute it if I don't get harrassed/scout stupid things etc.
The problem I have is, that I'm now top 8 platinum and facing diamond players most of the time. Due to the fact that I can't execute it properly everytime I hesitate to move up to the platin benchmarks. I feel that if I would still be playing gold players, they wouldn't be able to put lots of pressure on me and I would hit the benchmarks more often. Do you guys think its time to move up or should I keep practicing only the gold benchmarks?
tl/dr: Should I move up to platinum benchmarks when facing diamond opponents with the gold build and not beeing able to execute it under lots of pressure?
I don't want to speak for Filter, but It took me 50 games against the AI before I nailed all gold benchmarks. By then, I had the build order down like memorizing the alphabet, but I always have less vs. a real ladder opponent than the AI. This is simply because your mind is less focused during a ladder game because you need to be much more aware of what the opponent might be doing. Nerves can also play a part in this.
The platinum benchmarks are extremely difficult to achieve. And You should go ahead and try it out in my opinion. The real benefit is not to teach you how to play and hit 200 supply by 14:00 in every game, but to help you nail good macro.
So many players profess to say they are going to make you a better gamer, when all they do is refer to high APM Korean games, GSL level build orders, and abstract concepts mixed with tons of tangential info, rewinding of the replay and diking around.
Filter gets so many referals and kudos because he is the first ever to come out and tutor players on the specific things they need to do to be a better gamer.
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Starting Platinum ones. Feels like someone released a beast. And that beast is me.
Even if my benchmarks are still lacking, i still outmacro so hard my opponents, still losing because cheese and other things.
But it feels good anyway. So fun.
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Got to platinum as zerg early last season before running out of time to play, just getting back into it now and having real difficulty beating anything plat again so I wanted to start working on my fundamentals and came across these guides. I've been trying out the zerg bronze/silver level benchmarks against AI and find myself *close* most of the time after about 20 games (usually 146 or 148 food out of 150 at 11 min, and 58/60 drones almost every time at 8 minutes). Is it better for me to really nail these benchmarks in single player vs AI before I even try going onto the ladder with them, or is it more beneficial to start playing real opponents again?
P.S. I love these guides (at least the zerg ones), TONS of great info and really helpful to have all of the fundamentals explained in such an easy to follow format
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If you're bored of practicing against the AI, queue up for a few games and see how well you hit the benchmarks. You'll probably do so poorly in actual games that you'll be happy to practice more by yourself.
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Just wanted to say, I was Silver league last Christmas and stopped playing, I decided to play 5 games today after watching parts 1-3 of your tutorials and I got placed into Platinum. My mechanics are still horrible but because of your tutorials I became a better Starcraft player in one day. Thank you!
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EPT
