EPT[G] Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics - Page 44
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OneBaseKing
Afghanistan412 Posts
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Goggalor
United States310 Posts
Background: I've been bronze since the day I bought sc2, mostly because I only rarely play. I recently started trying to play more dedicated and was using dapollo's guide, but I switched to filtersc's zerg guide since I don't have the decision making ability that dapollo has, nor the macro to back it up. On the 4th day of practice, I finally made it out of bronze. I've got about 8 days of practice and am top silver playing mostly gold. There was a local tournament today, and I entered with the impression that there would be a lower league and higher league tourney. I was wrong. I was knocked out of the tourney after being pitted against two masters league players, but I nearly took a game off one of them and lost because I a-moved and got stuck on a ramp with only 2 of my 36 roaches attacking 8 marines with 3 medivacs and 2 siege tanks. If I would have even used hugging micro I would have won. | ||
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Schaudenfraud
United States38 Posts
woops...want to delete this QQ | ||
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ConstantSc
Australia33 Posts
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Ammoth
Sweden391 Posts
 Or maybe someone else came up with some nice benchmarks for protoss?  | ||
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Kronen
United States732 Posts
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PuddingTiger
United Kingdom62 Posts
Thanks so much Filter, I can enjoy SC2 again instead of feeling like I'm stuck in a rut. See y'all in masters | ||
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Filter
Canada620 Posts
On July 17 2012 01:25 Kronen wrote: Hope Filter is ok! Hasn't updated or posted in a long time. Yeah, I'm good. I suffer from depression and at times it gets the best of me, ruins my sleeping pattern and ability to work on things from time to time. Finally managed to get a decent sleep schedule going though, and I'm no longer feeling tired and unmotivated day in day out. I just finished the 16th episode of the Terran series and I'm uploading it as I type :D Managed to sort out of a whole bunch of irl crap over the past few weeks which is awesome, and I can get back to making vids and studying sc2 as much as possible. Protoss will be coming, the second half of the Zerg episodes should flow rather quickly and I've been working a lot on a long post/vlog about the current state of sc2, the direction Blizzard is taking with it right now and into the future with HoTS. I really dislike the direction the game is going in.. the HoTS tank wrecking vids thrashed my motivation to even play sc2 honestly. Whats not to like about tanks? Great for positional play, take lots of skill to use properly and don't limit the skill of your opponent beyond what he can control. The "long" drawn out boring games are so rare now because people know how to deal with them properly now at the higher levels. I can see two gold leaguers never attacking each others tank lines, but once you get to masters, gm, pro players start dropping to pull somebody around with their tanks and are always looking for holes to exploit. 45 minute tank/viking wars are a thing of the past, but Blizzard doesn't seem to want heavy positional play they are leaning towards a counter/hard counter system that I despise with HoTS. | ||
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VolvicCH
Spain21 Posts
On July 17 2012 09:20 Filter wrote: Yeah, I'm good. I suffer from depression and at times it gets the best of me, ruins my sleeping pattern and ability to work on things from time to time. Finally managed to get a decent sleep schedule going though, and I'm no longer feeling tired and unmotivated day in day out. I just finished the 16th episode of the Terran series and I'm uploading it as I type :D Managed to sort out of a whole bunch of irl crap over the past few weeks which is awesome, and I can get back to making vids and studying sc2 as much as possible. Protoss will be coming, the second half of the Zerg episodes should flow rather quickly and I've been working a lot on a long post/vlog about the current state of sc2, the direction Blizzard is taking with it right now and into the future with HoTS. I really dislike the direction the game is going in.. the HoTS tank wrecking vids thrashed my motivation to even play sc2 honestly. Whats not to like about tanks? Great for positional play, take lots of skill to use properly and don't limit the skill of your opponent beyond what he can control. The "long" drawn out boring games are so rare now because people know how to deal with them properly now at the higher levels. I can see two gold leaguers never attacking each others tank lines, but once you get to masters, gm, pro players start dropping to pull somebody around with their tanks and are always looking for holes to exploit. 45 minute tank/viking wars are a thing of the past, but Blizzard doesn't seem to want heavy positional play they are leaning towards a counter/hard counter system that I despise with HoTS. Oh Joy :D Have a nice day | ||
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Qibla
Australia343 Posts
Zerg can get 3 bases then make 10 billion lings, banes and crush the attack. then I usually lose the game unless they stuff up big time. Protoss nexus first or 1 gate expand and rofl stomp with any combination of protoss units. Terran going mech will have more tanks, and mass hellion to squash marines. I've also been having trouble with a marine hellion banshee push before 10 mins. And also Mass Marine, at 10 minutes it has so much DPS verse only 1 tank. Is anyone else having these problems? | ||
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etherealfall
Australia476 Posts
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On July 17 2012 22:02 Qibla wrote: So I've worked up to Platinum/Diamond. I'm following the buikl, and hitting the benchmarks, but I'm getting roflstomped by all races. The 10 minute attack just isn't working. Zerg can get 3 bases then make 10 billion lings, banes and crush the attack. then I usually lose the game unless they stuff up big time. Protoss nexus first or 1 gate expand and rofl stomp with any combination of protoss units. Terran going mech will have more tanks, and mass hellion to squash marines. I've also been having trouble with a marine hellion banshee push before 10 mins. And also Mass Marine, at 10 minutes it has so much DPS verse only 1 tank. Is anyone else having these problems? If you build a TL (instead of Reactor) on the Factory, research Siege there and build Tanks constantly, you can have at least 2, maybe 3 up at 10 minutes. However I'm at a quite similar point for the 10 minute attack. Opponents tend to get really greedy, when they see a Terran 1Rax-expanding I think, which results in them having a better economy for a bit and then just more stuff at 10 minutes and it gets worse the later you get there. An idea would be to do a small Timing Push inbetween. For example after having expanded getting a Techlab and Stim or Combat Shields asap. Then push as it finishes with all bio you have. Yes, this comes before medivacs, so you won't have heal, and before your first tank pops out even maybe, but if the opponent was too greedy, he'll still have problems to hold it. It doesn't even have to beat him right away, just do decent damage. The point would be to get the Zerg to build army instead of drones and the Protoss to lose some Warpgate units before the Colossi or Templar come out. Just don't forget the most important thing... go on macroing up meanwhile! When the push is lost, you will have some tanks, medivacs and new bio out for the counter attack to run into. | ||
crow_mw
Poland115 Posts
I think first important thing to do here is to use advice from episode 7 and fight over watchtowers - with little commitment this will make our opponents feel less at ease. If we want to start poking around earlier, especially against Zerg, I think we could do combat shield before stim and move to their third with our marines as soon as its done. If there is no third by that time, we fall back as big bust is likely comming. If the third is up they don't yet have imbastors and CS is a great against lings and banes. PS. Spamming F5 on YT, can't wait for Terran ep 16. | ||
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BaCoNSawce
United States34 Posts
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gavinashun
101 Posts
the only times i would win would be when the zerg had a poorly defended 3rd which i could take out, or in the rare times when i was able to pull off drops and multi-prong aggression ... but i feel like the APM and multi-tasking this requires are high i had better luck with his 'adding variation TvZ' build, the hellion/maurader/marine/medivac push build ... but still well below 50% win rate i'm currently experimenting with an older build, bomber's 3cc build (day9 did an episode on it, there is also a TL thread) ... haven't fully practiced it yet but i like the way it feels ... basically reactor hellions into 3ccs into marine-tank-medivac ... max army, 2-1-1 upgrades by about 14:30 | ||
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Airionn
United Kingdom186 Posts
Note: im putting towers up an stopping the banshee but end up getting trapped in my base because of the mass tanks outside my base. | ||
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Qibla
Australia343 Posts
Here is a replay where my 10 minute attack is utterly demolished. I Hit the 50 scv benchmark, have 1 tank 1 medi and a bunch of rines. I move out across the map, he meets me half way with a bunch of lings and banes while I'm back in my base looking to add production. He doesn't completely destroy my attack, but it doesn't matter because he has 4 bases to my 2, and spines in his main to defend my counter drop, and also a millioin banes and lings morphing in, and I also scout his infestation pit has gone down. As far as I could see I was doomed from the start with this build. | ||
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ShadowDrgn
United States2497 Posts
It's also a really good idea to be active on the map with your first 3-4 marines, especially if you scout no gas from the zerg. Just take one of those marines and stick it at his third so he doesn't take it at 5:00. | ||
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`dunedain
655 Posts
On July 18 2012 15:22 Qibla wrote: http://drop.sc/223670 Here is a replay where my 10 minute attack is utterly demolished. I Hit the 50 scv benchmark, have 1 tank 1 medi and a bunch of rines. I move out across the map, he meets me half way with a bunch of lings and banes while I'm back in my base looking to add production. He doesn't completely destroy my attack, but it doesn't matter because he has 4 bases to my 2, and spines in his main to defend my counter drop, and also a millioin banes and lings morphing in, and I also scout his infestation pit has gone down. As far as I could see I was doomed from the start with this build. First of all I want to say that although I was doing this build, I started to refine it into my own. But as far as your replay, this is what I noticed. Hope it helps. What you did wrong early: Your build isn't as refined as it could be. You got your 2nd and 3rd Rax too late. You had zero map control, very bad map awareness. What you did right early: Kept up scv production. Never got supply blocked. Killed Ovies hovering around your base. After scouting that he has no gasses, that's a signal that you can have map control with your marines early game. In this situation, you must take both watch towers, as well as sending a marine to his third base <--which is supposed to be coming since he went gasless. The marine in his third will also give you information on when he's planning on expanding. If you have a good marine count, you can deny the 3rd and force lings. Your early pack of marines can fend off creep spread as well as give you the other information you need, pick off stray Ovies and hopefully force lings out of him, instead of drones. Keep up the threat of an attack, make him play on the back foot. It's generally safe to stay on the map for 3minutes after he gets his gasses. That's when speed's gonna kick in. You need your gasses earlier to get good tech up by your push. You need to get your third either up or building by the time you push out. Never get caught unsieged like that, always stim one marine forward to scout before pushing out. So tl;dr it was not the build that lost you the game, it was the execution. | ||
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Filter
Canada620 Posts
On July 18 2012 15:22 Qibla wrote: http://drop.sc/223670 Here is a replay where my 10 minute attack is utterly demolished. I Hit the 50 scv benchmark, have 1 tank 1 medi and a bunch of rines. I move out across the map, he meets me half way with a bunch of lings and banes while I'm back in my base looking to add production. He doesn't completely destroy my attack, but it doesn't matter because he has 4 bases to my 2, and spines in his main to defend my counter drop, and also a millioin banes and lings morphing in, and I also scout his infestation pit has gone down. As far as I could see I was doomed from the start with this build. Just a couple of things to note about the replay, as well as what the above poster mentioned. Your opponent didn't have a million drones, he underdroned which with well placed scans would have been easy to spot based on the number of units he had. It's okay to pull back and secure your third in that situation as even though he has 4 hatches he's not really ahead, especially if you establish your third. If he went up to the 80 drones to saturate all his bases your push just kills him. The second thing to note is with tanks, try to wait for 3 or 4 before moving out. You want to try and establish your third and use a few drops to force units and distract him a bit, if you're pushing with one tank your army is much weaker than it would be compared to using a hellion/marauder comp for the 10 minute push. Remember, the entire purpose of having the 10 minute attack in my videos is to get people, especially lower level players out of their base and winning games. Learning to sit back for 20 minutes and macro isn't very helpful, it's important to be attacking as well (especially as Terran). When you're playing higher level games your attack timing should be well researched and serve a purpose, a simple delay to get a 2/3rd tank in there and an established third would have completely changed the outcome of that game. | ||
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