EPT[D] Is 6 pool overpowerd? - Page 2
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Hrpggtru
25 Posts
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Nyter
Netherlands22 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 28 2011 16:33 Plexa wrote: You don't try to wall off though, you pylon in main and add cannon in your mineral line then use your econ advantage to get further ahead =/ This!!!!!!!!! Also some points I want to add: -) on 4player maps zerg has the same problem (late scouting) -) FFE against hatch first is the same principle as 6pool vs Nexus first (with the difference that 6pool is an allin, Canonrush an option you get without making any sacrifices) -) if you have trouble with 6pools with a Forge opening (though it is beatable, but does only transition into a lead for protoss, not into an autowin if both players play it well) and there are as many 6pools around as you said --> Gateway expand -) 5min 2base roach/ling??? WTF! That's not possible... that's a 1base roach/ling allin you're talking about! (maybe with hatchcancel) | ||
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ZorBa.G
Australia279 Posts
To be quiet honest, the only part of SC2 I hate is the early game because of cheeses and builds like this. But keep in mind, I'm not blaming the all-ins and cheeses... I'm blaming the maps which let this happen too easily. Honestly, who in this world wants to play 30 games on ladder only to come up against cheese everytime? You never learn much at all. I would rather play 30 macro games, only because it's a much better way to futher game knowledge/experience. I'm actually resorting to just playing in-house and tournies only. For now, screw ladder. I don't mind 4 player maps. But i think 4 player maps with only 2 spawn positions would fix alot of this. Then people can clearly say if you lost to cheese, it's because you didn't scout well enough. | ||
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mazqo
Finland368 Posts
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Nyter
Netherlands22 Posts
On September 28 2011 16:57 ZorBa.G wrote: It's overpowered becuase it's completely up to chance wether if you scout it or not. I don't think the 6-pool is OP, I would prefer to say it's the maps which make it OP. To be quiet honest, the only part of SC2 I hate is the early game because of cheeses and builds like this. But keep in mind, I'm not blaming the all-ins and cheeses... I'm blaming the maps which let this happen too easily. Honestly, who in this world wants to play 30 games on ladder only to come up against cheese everytime? You never learn much at all. I would rather play 30 macro games, only because it's a much better way to futher game knowledge/experience. I'm actually resorting to just playing in-house and tournies only. For now, screw ladder. I don't mind 4 player maps. But i think 4 player maps with only 2 spawn positions would fix alot of this. Then people can clearly say if you lost to cheese, it's because you didn't scout well enough. You bring a good idea. More maps with a shakuras plateau-like idea, limiting some spawn locations to 1 or 2 will make cheesing more effective (because you dont have to scout/scout less) but this is also an advantage for the defender. For now i'd just double scout @ 9 when i FFE ._. | ||
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Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
On September 28 2011 16:15 Lobber wrote: On Shakuras, 13 forge is auto loss to a perfect 6 pool if you try to wall off, 12 forge you can wall it, if 13 forge you need to pylon the mineral line+cannon to survive. Other maps, just scout on 9, and scout at 12 or 13 forge opposite way as initial probe... however if you scout first, if 6 pool, defend, if not, nexus first (unless other sort of fast pool) I'm pretty sure I held off 6pools on Shakuras by walling off and then adding cannon at the natural, they usually broke 1 gateway just as the cannon finished. But yeah, basically don't build nexus until you see pool or hatch timing, nuff said. | ||
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mazqo
Finland368 Posts
On September 28 2011 17:15 Zaphid wrote: I'm pretty sure I held off 6pools on Shakuras by walling off and then adding cannon at the natural, they usually broke 1 gateway just as the cannon finished. But yeah, basically don't build nexus until you see pool or hatch timing, nuff said. Im pretty sure your opponent didnt execute 6pool well, since its not possible to wall off and hold 6pool, trust me, i have tried many times. | ||
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Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
On September 28 2011 17:17 mazqo wrote: Im pretty sure your opponent didnt execute 6pool well, since its not possible to wall off and hold 6pool, trust me, i have tried many times. I'd assume master level zergs can do that properly, but whatever :D Yeah, but you are probably right, they can block the buildings with drone. | ||
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OptimusYale
Korea (South)1005 Posts
As a Zerg I never win with 6 pool. If you feel that all zergs cheese, send a scout out earlier, see what they're up to.... | ||
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Bad_Habit
Germany243 Posts
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mazqo
Finland368 Posts
On September 28 2011 17:19 Zaphid wrote: I'd assume master level zergs can do that properly, but whatever :D Yeah, but you are probably right, they can block the buildings with drone. No, building at the wall will just get destroyed before your cannon is ready, and im 100% sure of this. | ||
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Bad_Habit
Germany243 Posts
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
If you throw down a pylon at 15 supply, you should be fine. You will lose your forge and pylon, but still be ahead economically. Throw down a gateway and core after in range of your cannon. Play normally after this. You can usually sneak a probe into their base too to scout, since fast speed is impossible. | ||
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Bad_Habit
Germany243 Posts
On September 28 2011 16:59 Nyter wrote: You bring a good idea. More maps with a shakuras plateau-like idea, limiting some spawn locations to 1 or 2 will make cheesing more effective (because you dont have to scout/scout less) but this is also an advantage for the defender. For now i'd just double scout @ 9 when i FFE ._. the funny thing is i turned shakuras off beacuse its unwinable against protoss when u open up with 6pool :D | ||
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FlaminGinjaNinja
United Kingdom879 Posts
On September 28 2011 16:41 RockIronrod wrote: Wait, so when Zerg FE's they're greedy, but when Protoss does it Zerg is overpowered? So it would seem. If you go for a quick expo like a nexus first or FFE of course you are going to be at risk from an early pool from Zerg. I could say the same thing about me going 15 hatch against a protoss going 2 gate. 6 pool is not overpowered, especially on a 4 player map. Yes you might not be expecting it but it's still a huge risk for the zerg because if you hold it off, even with some loses, you are almost certain to be ahead. Probe micro and either 1 zealot or a cannon will hold 6 pool no problems but of course you have to get the zealot\cannon before you put don the nexus otherwise it wont get out in time | ||
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Quochobao
United States350 Posts
On September 28 2011 16:33 Plexa wrote: You don't try to wall off though, you pylon in main and add cannon in your mineral line then use your econ advantage to get further ahead =/ What if the zerg bypasses the forge and pylon at ramp, run directly into the mineral line to attack probe and the warping pylon/canon? Toss will either lose probes or suffer lost mining time then. As soon as toss' canon is up, zerg can go back to ramp and kill the forge. (This is even mentioned in Liquidpedia's 6 pool section lmfao) | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 28 2011 17:48 Quochobao wrote: What if the zerg bypasses the forge and pylon at ramp, run directly into the mineral line to attack probe and the warping pylon/canon? Toss will either lose probes or suffer lost mining time then. As soon as toss' canon is up, zerg can go back to ramp and kill the forge. (This is even mentioned in Liquidpedia's 6 pool section lmfao) What about it? At least you can defend your cannon with good micro. Losing mining time is better than losing the game. | ||
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Twelve12
Australia268 Posts
It's just the risk you take for the econ advantage, just like the 6 pooling player is taking a risk with his build to sacrifice econ for a chance to kill you. | ||
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Bad_Habit
Germany243 Posts
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