EPTI'm going to play a TvP mech style, but want to do a 1 rax gasless expand. Am I able to safely do this versus Protoss (map dependent of course) and go straight to siege tech, or will I need more than 1 barracks as the expansion goes up?
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Cycle
United States300 Posts
I'm going to play a TvP mech style, but want to do a 1 rax gasless expand. Am I able to safely do this versus Protoss (map dependent of course) and go straight to siege tech, or will I need more than 1 barracks as the expansion goes up? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:22 Cycle wrote: Hey peoples, simple TvP question here: I'm going to play a TvP mech style, but want to do a 1 rax gasless expand. Am I able to safely do this versus Protoss (map dependent of course) and go straight to siege tech, or will I need more than 1 barracks as the expansion goes up? It really depends on what your opponent is doing. If he's expanding as well, this is safe, but against certain all-ins, especially a VR all-in, you'll want a 2nd rax. A 2nd rax isn't really a liability for a mech player anyways, since you can use it to make addons later on, or to fly around and scout. | ||
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Cycle
United States300 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:30 Blazinghand wrote:It really depends on what your opponent is doing. If he's expanding as well, this is safe, but against certain all-ins, especially a VR all-in, you'll want a 2nd rax. A 2nd rax isn't really a liability for a mech player anyways, since you can use it to make addons later on, or to fly around and scout. thx for quick response :D This makes sense to me. I've specifically lost many games to VR all ins where they proxy the stargate. Is the tell for this just 2 gas and few sentries, in which case I'm gonna want an EBay anyways? | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37032 Posts
If I get tanks, then his mutas snipe them. And because of banelings I have to spread out my tanks, which allows the mutas to snipe them from all kinds of angles. should I mix in a thor? His infestors fungal growth whatever marines I try to snipe his mutas with, and then he just runs in with his muta/bling/ling combo and rapes my army. TvP: How do I go about doing 1/1/1? I have a strat where I go reactor marines, tech lab tanks, and tech lab raven. Normally I'll push out as my first raven is out, but I don't have enough units to kill him. And when my first attack drastically fails, he wins because I'm so behind. Do I wait until I have a several ravens? Do I get stim at all? And if I do, do I mix in medivacs? Would that require a 2nd starport? Basically, I want to know exactly what kind of timing push I should be aiming for. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:32 Cycle wrote: thx for quick response :D This makes sense to me. I've specifically lost many games to VR all ins where they proxy the stargate. Is the tell for this just 2 gas and few sentries, in which case I'm gonna want an EBay anyways? The tell for a tech all-in is 2 gas, few sentries, no expo at 6:15 when you scan. You might get lucky and scan a stargate, dark shrine, or robo, but as a general rule, expect him to have hidden his tech. You'll want an engineering bay and a turret at your front, but really against void rays, your goal is to get a viking out. To understand how to stop a VR all-in with a fast expand that's rushing for tanks, check out Jinro vs. Socke on Bel'Shir Beach from NASL. Jinro shows exactly how to make bunkers and delay until the viking is out, like the boss he is: http://nasl.tv/Videos/week-1-division-3-jinro-vs-socke On September 20 2011 03:35 Seeker wrote: How do I handle TvZ muta/baneling/zergling/infestor? If I get tanks, then his mutas snipe them. And because of banelings I have to spread out my tanks, which allows the mutas to snipe them from all kinds of angles. should I mix in a thor? His infestors fungal growth whatever marines I try to snipe his mutas with, and then he just runs in with his muta/bling/ling combo and rapes my army. Marine/Tank is based off of 2 ideas:
Don't worry about splitting your marines and tanks and stuff- just have your tanks focus-fire any banelings or infestors that come close-- they'll go down really fast. Keep your marines huddled around your tanks for safety, and if you're having trouble stopping mutas from sniping tanks, make 1 thor so they can't stack. Always be sieged up as you push, and make sure your marines and tanks can support each other. EDIT: misspelled "Socke" as "Sock" oops fixed it | ||
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Cycle
United States300 Posts
On September 20 2011 03:37 Blazinghand wrote: The tell for a tech all-in is 2 gas, few sentries, no expo at 6:15 when you scan. You might get lucky and scan a stargate, dark shrine, or robo, but as a general rule, expect him to have hidden his tech. You'll want an engineering bay and a turret at your front, but really against void rays, your goal is to get a viking out. To understand how to stop a VR all-in with a fast expand that's rushing for tanks, check out Jinro vs. Sock on Bel'Shir Beach from NASL. Jinro shows exactly how to make bunkers and delay until the viking is out, like the boss he is: http://nasl.tv/Videos/week-1-division-3-jinro-vs-socke Wow, HUGE thanks. <3 | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
Would anyone mind watching a replay of mine against the AI (very hard). I lost, but I can't really figure out why. I had the first expo, had better map control. Yet he seemed to push me back each time. The weirdest thing is that he had more units than I did in the early game. Really weird? http://drop.sc/36042 | ||
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
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Roguelead
Singapore59 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:29 KenDM wrote: Dear all, Would anyone mind watching a replay of mine against the AI (very hard). I lost, but I can't really figure out why. I had the first expo, had better map control. Yet he seemed to push me back each time. The weirdest thing is that he had more units than I did in the early game. Really weird? http://drop.sc/36042 On September 20 2011 04:33 Maxie wrote: IIRC the very hard (and insane) AI cheats. On September 20 2011 04:53 Roguelead wrote: only the insane AI cheats To clarify: the very hard AI does not cheat for resources. It might map-hack or something though. The AIs generally do several strong all-innish pushes starting at about 6:00. | ||
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MasonosaM
United States74 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On September 20 2011 05:12 MasonosaM wrote: TvZ I keep losing to this strategy once in a while where zerg will do the normal fe into a ball of roaches while im just starting my tank after a hellion fe and I auto lose. I have no problem scouting regular roach rushes but for some reason this is always catching me off guard. What should I be looking for etc and what is the proper way to defend this? Well, if you opened with reactor hellions, just stay all up in his face with your hellions, and he'll have to use roaches to defend if he has any. Don't ever have your hellion inside your own base when they could be hanging out at his base instead basically getting all up in his grill. If you see roaches, you'll have plenty of advance notice before the slow-moving units can reach your base. Make 2 bunkers at your natural and that should last you until you have a tank, but make sure to repair heavily. If he's defending using only roaches, you could also try to counter-attack into his natural with a couple hellions and force his roaches to stay home. On September 20 2011 03:35 Seeker wrote: TvP: How do I go about doing 1/1/1? I have a strat where I go reactor marines, tech lab tanks, and tech lab raven. Normally I'll push out as my first raven is out, but I don't have enough units to kill him. And when my first attack drastically fails, he wins because I'm so behind. Do I wait until I have a several ravens? Do I get stim at all? And if I do, do I mix in medivacs? Would that require a 2nd starport? Basically, I want to know exactly what kind of timing push I should be aiming for. If you want a solid 1-base all-in as TvP, you want something like: The dreaded, feared, god-crushing 1/1/1 allin, in all its glory, and all of its horror 10 depot 12 rax 13 refinery 15 Orbital command 16 supply depot 18 factory (100 gas) 19 Refinery (asap after factory) After 4th marine, make a reactor, then use your reactor rax to dump minerals wherever possible 22 Starport (while building, have factory make tech lab) swap addons, make banshees, have factory make another tech lab Begin making siege tanks and researching siege mode. Alternatively, delay siege mode for cloak. alternatively, delay siege mode for raven. Make another barracks or two if minerals climb. Push out any time after 2nd tank, pull about 10 scvs for repairing, making bunkers, and fighting. You can also make an engineering bay at home and proxy a turret if you don't get a raven. If your attack fails, pull back and mass up another 2-3 tanks and banshees and another ton of marines and attack again two minutes later. pull scvs. Keep on attacking until the game is over. Make sure to move in sufficient size. Marines and banshees are your DPS, tanks abuse their range and punish stalkers and sentries for the crime of existing. | ||
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MysteryHours
United States168 Posts
1) If you're going Tank Viking and you discover your opponent is doing the same, is there a viable tech switch or should you just try to 'out-Tank Viking' him? 2) Should you bother to use Marines as a mineral sink against an opponent who is committing to tanks? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On September 20 2011 06:17 MysteryHours wrote: Some TvT questions: 1) If you're going Tank Viking and you discover your opponent is doing the same, is there a viable tech switch or should you just try to 'out-Tank Viking' him? 2) Should you bother to use Marines as a mineral sink against an opponent who is committing to tanks? 1) Ideally you want to out-viking him while still having lots of tanks. Having like 1 extra tank doesn't make much of a difference, but an extra viking means you can spot for your tanks to shoot his stuff and he can't shoot back, since he'll lose any viking engagement. Also, if you should somehow clear out his vikings, you can build a banshee and start poking his tanks and making him unsiege. 2) yes, there's nowhere else to put your minerals, and if you start to lose the viking fight, you can pull your vikings back to hide behind your marines. an alternative style, "full mech" will use hellions instead of marines, which are superior harassers but weak against tanks and marauders. if you start to lose viking superiority you can supplement your vikings with a thor to prevent his vikings from stacking during viking fights. | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
I'm trying the Siege expand build. But is there something I'm doing wrong? I did a TvP and a TvT and it's like I'm inviting trouble. Could you just see how my progress is overall? The TvT build might be the most interesting there. TvP - http://drop.sc/36052 (this one doesn't really count cuz I lost the game before and decided to go a lot of Rax out of rage, which was dumb seeing as most of the time I couldn't even produce out of them, lucky he didn't FE). TvT - http://drop.sc/36057 | ||
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awakenx
United States341 Posts
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
every time I play TvP I die to a mid game push. I sit back and try to macro early but when they do the first push I just lose to whatever they do whether it be blink stalkers or just a huge deathball. Ive tried different things but nothing seems to work. also what do you do against a turtling terran player. I always get in trouble when someone has a couple of bases and builds a ton of turrets and has tanks.? Ive tried going quick bc but they literally have like 5 turrets in range of me no matter where I attack. final quick question. Is there a hard counter to mass bc? Ive tried vikings ive tried marines and iver tried ravens with hunter seeker missle and nothing seems to work. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:29 KenDM wrote: Dear all, Would anyone mind watching a replay of mine against the AI (very hard). I lost, but I can't really figure out why. I had the first expo, had better map control. Yet he seemed to push me back each time. The weirdest thing is that he had more units than I did in the early game. Really weird? http://drop.sc/36042 On September 20 2011 06:56 KenDM wrote: Dear Blazinghand, I'm trying the Siege expand build. But is there something I'm doing wrong? I did a TvP and a TvT and it's like I'm inviting trouble. Could you just see how my progress is overall? The TvT build might be the most interesting there. TvP - http://drop.sc/36052 (this one doesn't really count cuz I lost the game before and decided to go a lot of Rax out of rage, which was dumb seeing as most of the time I couldn't even produce out of them, lucky he didn't FE). TvT - http://drop.sc/36057 Hi KenDM, I took a look at your vs AI game and your TvT. btw, it's better if you send me losses, since there's more room for improvement there. Here's the coaching VoD I made: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/295520165 And here's an embedded video (youtube): + Show Spoiler + There's gonna be some visual static for the first 20 seconds of the video. Here are my non-comprehensive written notes + Show Spoiler [vs AI] + Part 1_ vs AI 1) make your buildings next to each other so that the swap is quicker and you don't sacrifice production time 2) don't start siege mode unless A) you have 2-3 tanks or B) your opponent also has siege mode siege up away from cliffs if worried about bio bring your tanks when you attack siege up at xel naga tower thors outrange p forts; abuse this tanks should be dealing damage, marines should be in front when fighting against marauders try to constantly produce units and scvs; you get supply blocked sometimes and forget to do so as well good upgrading your units more rax and more factories, have like 3 buildings per base with addons + Show Spoiler [vs human] + part 2_ vs human 1) if your scouting scv refuses to enter a high ground base, that is due to a wall-off; manually walk up the ramp 2) build rax and fact next to each other for quick addon swap at 5:12 you're banking 540 minerals; spend that money using eithe an expansion or making more barracks. -- you don't expo for about 20 seconds while you have all this money have turrets in the back of your base feel free to lift off your buildings and fly to your nat when he doom drops you don't attack when you're ahead economically and you know he's gonna attack you because he's mining out your main On September 19 2011 04:51 Maxie wrote: Two TvP losses: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-232298.jpg) My poke/"scouting push" is quite successful, I see all of his main base and my reaper gets 7 probe kills. However, the high amount of stalkers didn't set off an alarm, nor did the "where are all his resources going?" alarm go off properly. I miss his proxy stargate and I didn't follow my "what if he's not expanding...." hunch and didn't build any bunkers. Also, I got addons at an unfortunate time, which meant I had fewer units at the final battle. I'm still not entirely used to the follow up when it comes to this build, which led to some... gas problems. Also, to finish it off, I didn't even use stim in the last fight. D'oh. Note to self: bunkers are pretty much free, follow them hunches, think "where did those resources go?" Hi Maxie, I took a look at this replay, and put together a coaching VoD for you. Here's the coaching VoD: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/295520735 And here's the embedded video (youtube): + Show Spoiler + There's gonna be some visual static for the first 20 seconds of the video. Here are my non-comprehensive written notes: + Show Spoiler [notes for maxie] + when going for a marauder/concussive attack, start the marauder and concussive shell AS SOON as the tech lab finishes. feel free to start leaving your base a little before concussive shell finishes-- it'll be done before you reach him. try to get to his ASAP-- you want to be all up in his grill before warpgate finishes. once warpgate is done, unless you've done hella damage you've gotta retreat once you see warpgate stuff happening, like you did with your reaper, just run your units away-- he can reinforce quickly and you need to get out things you scout: 2nd gas - not 1 gate expo or 4gate scouting poke sees only stalker/zealots where's his gas going? THIS MEANS HE'S TECH ALL-INNING YOU with Dts or colossi or void rays or immortals you see him chrono boost something that's out of sight.. this means he's rushing out a unit with chrono boost, it's not a warpgate, therefore he's chrono boosting a robo or a stargate because it's not in his base, chances are, it's a PROXY STARGATE VOID RAY ALLIN. losing a lot of units in the fight is gonne make this tough i'd like to see bunkers whenever you're expoing, make bunkers-- they let you live. the only time it's ok to expo w/o bunkers is if he expos quicker. then you have the bigger army. On September 20 2011 12:17 karis wrote: okay im only bronze by the way. three quick questions. every time I play TvP I die to a mid game push. I sit back and try to macro early but when they do the first push I just lose to whatever they do whether it be blink stalkers or just a huge deathball. Ive tried different things but nothing seems to work. also what do you do against a turtling terran player. I always get in trouble when someone has a couple of bases and builds a ton of turrets and has tanks.? Ive tried going quick bc but they literally have like 5 turrets in range of me no matter where I attack. final quick question. Is there a hard counter to mass bc? Ive tried vikings ive tried marines and iver tried ravens with hunter seeker missle and nothing seems to work. i'd have to see a TvP replay to know what specifically is going wrong. your opponent might be taking a quick third and outmacroing you, or you might be missing some element of your composition or macro. against a TvT turtler, dont' directly engage turrets with BCs, but pick them off using tanks. If he has tanks near his turrets, yamato his tanks, then use your tanks to pick off the turrets. To beat mass BC, you need a lot of vikings with upgrades, and possible BCs of your own. ravens shoudl be using PDD rather than seeker missile unless you see a big clump of vikings. Hope this helps. | ||
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Headshot646
United States2 Posts
In TvT i am having problems with knowing if the enemy is going for an early attack because i like to control a mech army much more than a marine tank army. The only thing that i know is that a marine tank push can be observed by if they get a quick second gas. I cant post any reps cause i am on an ipod. Second question wat is the role of the hellion in tvt? Is it only harassment? Or viable fodder to protect the tanks? | ||
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