nice to see a thread like this. for some reason people think thors autowin vs mutas, sure maybe if theres like 4 mutas vs 1 thor and the mutas are balled up. its getting pretty annoying watching even casters say dumb crap like "oh no a thor, whys this guy still making da mutas?!?!" even when theres no marines/vikings to support them.

AncienTs

Japan227 Posts

August 20 2010 19:45 GMT

#82

great job on a quality OP =)

and it's actually a "magic trapezoid" :3

potatomash3r

Australia417 Posts

August 20 2010 19:47 GMT

#83

I will put this to good use.

I've seen pro matches do this, most recently Idra against Saren, and always wondered how they do it.

Thanks again!

Akuemon

Canada151 Posts

August 20 2010 19:51 GMT

#84

I've been doing this ever since my i found out tanks cant attack mutas. I build mutas in everyone of my ZvT's its my best MU by far ever since ^^ Zerg imba

Antares777

United States1971 Posts

August 20 2010 19:56 GMT

#85

Hmm...

Somewhat of an answer to ZvT.

YES!!!!!!!!!

lateralus00

United States27 Posts

August 20 2010 20:01 GMT

#86

why did you give up the secret.. ive known bout this for alittle bit now and have been finally beating T's with my mutas and laughing at 4 thors getting owned by my mutas.. now T players r going to adjust. ;(

tru_power22

Canada385 Posts

August 20 2010 20:42 GMT

#87

Very good! Maybe now we wont see 50 "Mech is Bullshit" threads.

DeltruS

Canada2214 Posts

August 20 2010 20:53 GMT

#88

This is gonna completely change ZvT. Without OP thors, terran will be forced to build marines in addition to mech, making them banling vulnerable just like MMM. Games are going to really be decided by tank placement, marine vs baneling splits, baneling micro and mutalisk harass. This make me worried, though, that banelings may have to recive a small nerf, thors a buff, or bio a buff.

Malminos

United States321 Posts

August 20 2010 20:58 GMT

#89

Never in a million years did i think mutalisks would turn into a decent counter to thors...

DeltruS

Canada2214 Posts

August 20 2010 21:11 GMT

#90

I noticed in the Sarens game that Idra clumped his mutas a ton. Someone go tell Idra!

Feremuntrus

United States64 Posts

August 20 2010 21:13 GMT

#91

Only down side I see is if the terran player micros the thors to force them to either clump up or stay where they are but be out of range. This is especially costly to the zerg if the terran has marines or vikings as support and lets the thors attack from a distance while luring the mutas to them.

Bull-Demon

United States582 Posts

August 20 2010 21:16 GMT

#92

In ZvT its extremely important to use this tactic to kill the first thor that pops out. That gives you a world of time to do more harass and really get your second/third expo up and running.

Deathstar

9150 Posts

August 20 2010 21:18 GMT

#93

The latest discovery by our Zerg comrade to combat the Terran scum. Well done!

Krohm

Canada1857 Posts

August 20 2010 21:24 GMT

#94

This is only really viable against someone who is going straight Thor/Hellion/Tank. It's still informative, but a lot of games I've played the terran also mixes in marines and even possibly vikings. This is generally due to being scouted very well by the T player. Maybe I should start throwing down dens and spires just to force the terran to make tanks/hellions and exclude vikings.

DashFlow

United Kingdom176 Posts

August 20 2010 21:27 GMT

#95

This looks.. Awesome! i saw Psy's video and thought it was amazing, this is what makes Starcraft. Starcraft. Little tricks like this well done

Snowbear

Korea (South)1925 Posts

August 20 2010 21:39 GMT

#96

Damn

the good thor vs muta times are over it seems :p

fdsdfg

United States1251 Posts

August 20 2010 21:56 GMT

#97

I love mutas vs Terran, but I have so much trouble surviving while the spire is building on lings/roaches alone. Without hydras and infestors it feels impossible to beat a certain sized MMM ball.

Ghad

Norway2551 Posts

August 20 2010 21:58 GMT

#98

Came here from PsY's video, this looks very promising.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

August 20 2010 21:58 GMT

#99

On August 20 2010 18:01 Jermstuddog wrote:
Yeah, I know what I could have done in my spot. 10 more roaches, 5 blings, anything other than essentially pure muta would have been nice.

Maybe its just this thread did hit on something that isn't common knowledge yet, but should be.

As long as you spend MORE GAS ON YOUR MUTAS than T has on Thors (2:1 is a good number to aim for but 1.5:1 will suffice if you have other solid comp in the rest of your army) then you have the ability to shut down his Thors.

This is not an end-all-be-all thing though. There is a lot more going on in ZvT than Thors and Mutas, and T still holds all the cards.

Strictly speaking, spending more gas on your Mutas to beat Thors is perfectly fine because zerg should have access to 1-2 more bases than Terran.

It's exactly like in SC1 where trading a control group of mutas for like 5 High Templar is still reasonable for Zerg.

On August 21 2010 00:25 fenster wrote:
Aren't Vikings a Terran counter to mutas? I've had several games where my T opponent goes Vikings in response to my mutas (or simply for map control and overlord checking). I was basically forced to go for some sort of hydra/baneling/mutalisk mix that actually worked very well, but it was not as muta heavy as I would have liked. I'm not saying it's a smart T option since if Z does a tech switch any amount of Vikings over 4 or so are rendered worthless, but regardless they do deter mutas.

Vikings have been a poor response to Mutas since they got their base armor lowered to 0. They don't get bonus damage, aren't fast enough to kite Mutas, and can't benefit from the dramatic reduction in muta damage that comes with armor because of the fact that they don't share upgrades with Thor/Tank/Hellion.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

August 20 2010 22:08 GMT

#100

this has been known about since beta started i think. Except that with the influx of new people in sc2, people wanted to whine and cry instead of check the obvious.