EPT[G] ZvT Muta vs. Thor - Page 3
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AlienAlias
United States324 Posts
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
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SeaSmoke
United States326 Posts
edit: question...with a large number of mutas, is it better to hit "s" and stop them over the thors or to still target fire one, which may end up bunching a few...? | ||
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skindzer
Chile5114 Posts
BTW great find OP | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On August 20 2010 15:51 SeaSmoke wrote: omfg thank you gonna try this immediately. edit: question...with a large number of mutas, is it better to hit "s" and stop them over the thors or to still target fire one, which may end up bunching a few...? I found that hitting "H" is best cause they won't clump up for sure. | ||
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
I will break my sc2 cd if that happens. That or change to P =P | ||
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DrivE
United States2554 Posts
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NeoLearner
Belgium1847 Posts
On August 20 2010 15:57 skindzer wrote: Can someone make a map to test this? Laddering aint too "test friendly". BTW great find OP You can use the unit tester map. I think this is still the one most people use: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124763 Or if you want to make a complete build, YABOT: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128752 and make a custom wave of a few thors with a few marines or something. | ||
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FunkyLich
United States107 Posts
On August 20 2010 15:41 Ouga wrote: Will have to look into this. I don't see how mutas would avoid all the aoe while moving towards thors though, which is usually the deadly part. Situation likely won't be 12 v 4, if you focus on mutas and if it works to bug out aoe, you'll probably have a lot more. It sounds unlikely that you could totally dodge the aoe if you were attacking with 24mutas from one direction. I highly doubt this is the reason they haven't nerfed terran  If unit has small aoe, it's supposed to do aoe against 24 relatively packed units. I'd like them to make the aoe part of it more clear. Not something you can abuse with tricks, just nerf it altogether.Moving towards them is the easy part. Moving, parking, and shooting is the hard part. Try it. There is absolutely no reason you should be taking AoE while you're just moving (and using the magic box correctly) unless of course the thors are shooting hunter seeker missiles. (Which I hope Blizzard implements in the next patch) | ||
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
I always knew this, but in the heat of battle i always just wave it off, now i know that this is probably imperative. 1. I think that the clumping is the natural tendency stemming from BW where clumping ur mutas where a do or die tactic. 2. The only problem with this in game application is you have to count in marine fire which is the biggest problem. 3. It also is a pain when harrassing because if u want to target fire a tech lab/scvs/turrets, you have to re split the mutas, possible, but a few more actions to have to do. | ||
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MoNoNauT
United States74 Posts
Seriously, I just played a game against a Terran that had been talking about how awesome his ZvT was all night during this KOTH we were having... throughout the game I killed at least 12 thors, 2 or 3 at a time, only losing half a dozen or so mutalisks doing so. Thank you OP, I have a feeling this is going to change a LOT of players' opinions about the matchup... it certainly has for me. | ||
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TriniMasta
United States1323 Posts
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SeaSmoke
United States326 Posts
i was so confused thinking people were clicking each one and placing them during battles. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
Select your mutas, move them towards the area behind the thors, hit stop when you reach the Thors. You could have saved a lot of time, and btw this was posted already in 2-3 topic starting posts iirc Btw nobody uses Thors on their own, maybe in large enough numbers, but really, there's always support, so it's not this easy, actually it's really hard | ||
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Sealteam
Australia296 Posts
Ignore any naysayers they're just bitter and mean. | ||
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
Only a gold player here :p Yeah lets just let the naysayers say their nays. I just tried this on a terran pumping thors/mauraders. I went mass muta, saw his thors, and remembered what i saw in this thread earlier today and decided "might as well give it a shot"and it worked like a charm. Much to my opponent's amazement my mutas were neither afraid of his thors, nor took very many losses at all. Pretty funny to watch his reaction when i kill his first 2 thors. "omg" is all he can say. Hopefully this replay illustrates decent execution of this tactic, it worked well for me. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-140768.jpg) | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
Thors beat mutas in both gas and supply. They are plenty sufficient and I'm not going to agree that mutas are OP simply because your 3 Thors can't kill 30 mutalisks unassisted. The thing that is OP as fuck about Thors in TvZ is that they are a soft counter to EVERYTHING. The perfect embodiment of TvZ right there: you would only get thors to stop mutas, its already been stated in this thread several times, it just so happens that they're pretty damn good against everything else Z has too. Marines are an even better counter to mutas. 0 gas vs 100 gas? yes please. Again, also good against everything Zerg except banelings and ultras, still 0 gas vs 100+ Not knocking OPs post, because he has good pictures and such, but how is everybody acting like this is a new thing for Zerg? Mutas being able to take Thors roughly 4:1 is the only thing keeping ZvT not completely laughable right now. Even with smooth moves like this, I lost a game today which came down to 23 mutas and about 4 roaches vs 5 thors, 16 marines, 3 hellions, and 5 SCVs, you know who won? The guy who right-clicked an auto heal ability, and 1a'd his way through 4 bases off of 2. For the record, 0 Thors died in the process. Please stop acting like mutas are OMG OP... | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On August 20 2010 17:03 Malminos wrote: Only a gold player here :p Yeah lets just let the naysayers say their nays. I just tried this on a terran pumping thors/mauraders. I went mass muta, saw his thors, and remembered what i saw in this thread earlier today and decided "might as well give it a shot"and it worked like a charm. Much to my opponent's amazement my mutas were neither afraid of his thors, nor took very many losses at all. Pretty funny to watch his reaction when i kill his first 2 thors. "omg" is all he can say. Hopefully this replay illustrates decent execution of this tactic, it worked well for me. so he went marauders as support unit vs mutas? Yes, that rep must be a legit example how well mutas work against well built thor-based Terran armies Btw i'm simply amazed so many people treat this as sg new, this has been discussed in topics, used by pros etc... | ||
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Armsved
Denmark642 Posts
On August 20 2010 17:23 Jermstuddog wrote: Surprised that this is being treated as new info. Thors beat mutas in both gas and supply. They are plenty sufficient and I'm not going to agree that mutas are OP simply because your 3 Thors can't kill 30 mutalisks unassisted. The thing that is OP as fuck about Thors in TvZ is that they are a soft counter to EVERYTHING. The perfect embodiment of TvZ right there: you would only get thors to stop mutas, its already been stated in this thread several times, it just so happens that they're pretty damn good against everything else Z has too. Marines are an even better counter to mutas. 0 gas vs 100 gas? yes please. Again, also good against everything Zerg except banelings and ultras, still 0 gas vs 100+ Not knocking OPs post, because he has good pictures and such, but how is everybody acting like this is a new thing for Zerg? Mutas being able to take Thors roughly 4:1 is the only thing keeping ZvT not completely laughable right now. Even with smooth moves like this, I lost a game today which came down to 23 mutas and about 4 roaches vs 5 thors, 16 marines, 3 hellions, and 5 SCVs, you know who won? The guy who right-clicked an auto heal ability, and 1a'd his way through 4 bases off of 2. For the record, 0 Thors died in the process. Please stop acting like mutas are OMG OP... You are right, however in all these "ZvT is unbalanced" threads we see a lot of plat/low diamond, hell even mid diamond, complaining that T is OP simply based on "marauders are OP", "Thors are too strong vs muta", "tanks are too strong" etc. etc. And this is simply because people at this level do not understand how to work around these units. This thread is great at making Z players atleast understand how to work around Thors. Players like Idra are not complaining about the individual units are too strong, but simply that T has too many opening that are simply too hard to scout which makes the matchup somewhat a coinflip for Z. Muta linx Banling would had done great in the sitiuation you descriped. Also yeah marines do very well against any air, but they also die hard from baneling and fungal or pretty much any AOE. What im basicly saying is the people acting "OMG OP" are the people who arent high level and are complaining about all kind of jazz which they really shouldnt complaing about. (thor vs muta etc.) | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
On August 20 2010 17:47 Armsved wrote: Players like Idra are not complaining about the individual units are too strong, but simply that T has too many opening that are simply too hard to scout which makes the matchup somewhat a coinflip for Z. Exactly. People need to actually understand the matchup before crying about the wrong thing. T v Z is imbalanced, but not for the things more people cry about. To OP: good post. | ||
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