• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:46
CEST 03:46
KST 10:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off6[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax5Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris30Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : A Eulogy for the Six Pool Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away 2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
No Rain in ASL20? BW General Discussion Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off
Tourneys
[IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! [ASL20] Ro24 Group E [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro24 Group D
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3717 users

[G] ZvT Muta vs. Thor - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
AlienAlias
Profile Joined June 2009
United States324 Posts
August 20 2010 06:41 GMT
#41
wow, this looks great, i can't wait to try this out. i had almost just given up on muta ZvT what with marines, turrets, and thors.
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
August 20 2010 06:43 GMT
#42
This is great, thanks a ton for this post. Didn't know that thors had such small splash radius (although it makes sense because it is TONS of dps if the mutas are stacked incorrectly). Tried it out myself and 18 mutas taking out 6 thors with 5 mutas leftover is CRAZY. Love it! Thanks a ton, and I will definitely be using this in-game!
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
SeaSmoke
Profile Joined July 2010
United States326 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-20 06:53:33
August 20 2010 06:51 GMT
#43
omfg thank you gonna try this immediately.

edit: question...with a large number of mutas, is it better to hit "s" and stop them over the thors or to still target fire one, which may end up bunching a few...?
skindzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
Chile5114 Posts
August 20 2010 06:57 GMT
#44
Can someone make a map to test this? Laddering aint too "test friendly".

BTW great find OP
Its not only the rain that brings the thunder
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
August 20 2010 06:59 GMT
#45
On August 20 2010 15:51 SeaSmoke wrote:
omfg thank you gonna try this immediately.

edit: question...with a large number of mutas, is it better to hit "s" and stop them over the thors or to still target fire one, which may end up bunching a few...?


I found that hitting "H" is best cause they won't clump up for sure.
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
me_viet
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia1350 Posts
August 20 2010 07:00 GMT
#46
lol oh god something just occured to me. I hope Blizzard doesn't look at this and go "oh hey, Thor splash isn't really splashing anymore....let's increase aoe"

I will break my sc2 cd if that happens. That or change to P =P
DrivE
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States2554 Posts
August 20 2010 07:01 GMT
#47
wow i tried this on a unit testing map and 10 mutas beat 3 thors O_O (with one muta remaining)

LUCK IS NO EXCUSE
NeoLearner
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Belgium1847 Posts
August 20 2010 07:03 GMT
#48
On August 20 2010 15:57 skindzer wrote:
Can someone make a map to test this? Laddering aint too "test friendly".

BTW great find OP


You can use the unit tester map. I think this is still the one most people use:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124763

Or if you want to make a complete build, YABOT:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128752
and make a custom wave of a few thors with a few marines or something.
Bankai - Correlation does not imply causation
FunkyLich
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States107 Posts
August 20 2010 07:03 GMT
#49
On August 20 2010 15:41 Ouga wrote:
Will have to look into this. I don't see how mutas would avoid all the aoe while moving towards thors though, which is usually the deadly part. Situation likely won't be 12 v 4, if you focus on mutas and if it works to bug out aoe, you'll probably have a lot more. It sounds unlikely that you could totally dodge the aoe if you were attacking with 24mutas from one direction.

I highly doubt this is the reason they haven't nerfed terran If unit has small aoe, it's supposed to do aoe against 24 relatively packed units. I'd like them to make the aoe part of it more clear. Not something you can abuse with tricks, just nerf it altogether.


Moving towards them is the easy part. Moving, parking, and shooting is the hard part. Try it. There is absolutely no reason you should be taking AoE while you're just moving (and using the magic box correctly) unless of course the thors are shooting hunter seeker missiles. (Which I hope Blizzard implements in the next patch)
ZomgTossRush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1041 Posts
August 20 2010 07:15 GMT
#50
Great, OP!

I always knew this, but in the heat of battle i always just wave it off, now i know that this is probably imperative.

1. I think that the clumping is the natural tendency stemming from BW where clumping ur mutas where a do or die tactic.

2. The only problem with this in game application is you have to count in marine fire which is the biggest problem.

3. It also is a pain when harrassing because if u want to target fire a tech lab/scvs/turrets, you have to re split the mutas, possible, but a few more actions to have to do.
Coaching for 1v1 and Team games at Gosucoaching.com
MoNoNauT
Profile Joined April 2010
United States74 Posts
August 20 2010 07:18 GMT
#51
This... Changes... Everything...

Seriously, I just played a game against a Terran that had been talking about how awesome his ZvT was all night during this KOTH we were having... throughout the game I killed at least 12 thors, 2 or 3 at a time, only losing half a dozen or so mutalisks doing so.

Thank you OP, I have a feeling this is going to change a LOT of players' opinions about the matchup... it certainly has for me.
"The best counter to anything in Starcraft is to go fuckin' kill him." - Day[9]
TriniMasta
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1323 Posts
August 20 2010 07:18 GMT
#52
Yeah Thors don't really counter mutalisks by themselves (unless you just mass em), just make sure you don't receive too much splash damage.
정명훈 FIGHTING!!! Play both T and P.
SeaSmoke
Profile Joined July 2010
United States326 Posts
August 20 2010 07:19 GMT
#53
so, from now on when someone asks about mutas vs thors, can we please stop saying "spread your mutas" and start saying "don't clump mutas" please??

i was so confused thinking people were clicking each one and placing them during battles.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-20 07:34:31
August 20 2010 07:32 GMT
#54
ohm, pretty long post, but you could have written instead is:

Select your mutas, move them towards the area behind the thors, hit stop when you reach the Thors.

You could have saved a lot of time, and btw this was posted already in 2-3 topic starting posts iirc


Btw nobody uses Thors on their own, maybe in large enough numbers, but really, there's always support, so it's not this easy, actually it's really hard
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Sealteam
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia296 Posts
August 20 2010 07:37 GMT
#55
This is a great post, thanks for the info it's very useful!
Ignore any naysayers they're just bitter and mean.
Malminos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States321 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-20 08:06:38
August 20 2010 08:03 GMT
#56

Only a gold player here :p Yeah lets just let the naysayers say their nays. I just tried this on a terran pumping thors/mauraders.
I went mass muta, saw his thors, and remembered what i saw in this thread earlier today and decided "might as well give it a shot"and it worked like a charm.

Much to my opponent's amazement my mutas were neither afraid of his thors, nor took very many losses at all. Pretty funny to watch his reaction when i kill his first 2 thors. "omg" is all he can say.

Hopefully this replay illustrates decent execution of this tactic, it worked well for me.

[image loading]
"To dream of because become happiness "
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-20 08:28:33
August 20 2010 08:23 GMT
#57
Surprised that this is being treated as new info.

Thors beat mutas in both gas and supply. They are plenty sufficient and I'm not going to agree that mutas are OP simply because your 3 Thors can't kill 30 mutalisks unassisted. The thing that is OP as fuck about Thors in TvZ is that they are a soft counter to EVERYTHING. The perfect embodiment of TvZ right there: you would only get thors to stop mutas, its already been stated in this thread several times, it just so happens that they're pretty damn good against everything else Z has too.

Marines are an even better counter to mutas. 0 gas vs 100 gas? yes please. Again, also good against everything Zerg except banelings and ultras, still 0 gas vs 100+


Not knocking OPs post, because he has good pictures and such, but how is everybody acting like this is a new thing for Zerg? Mutas being able to take Thors roughly 4:1 is the only thing keeping ZvT not completely laughable right now.

Even with smooth moves like this, I lost a game today which came down to 23 mutas and about 4 roaches vs 5 thors, 16 marines, 3 hellions, and 5 SCVs, you know who won? The guy who right-clicked an auto heal ability, and 1a'd his way through 4 bases off of 2. For the record, 0 Thors died in the process.

Please stop acting like mutas are OMG OP...
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-20 08:50:19
August 20 2010 08:46 GMT
#58
On August 20 2010 17:03 Malminos wrote:

Only a gold player here :p Yeah lets just let the naysayers say their nays. I just tried this on a terran pumping thors/mauraders.
I went mass muta, saw his thors, and remembered what i saw in this thread earlier today and decided "might as well give it a shot"and it worked like a charm.

Much to my opponent's amazement my mutas were neither afraid of his thors, nor took very many losses at all. Pretty funny to watch his reaction when i kill his first 2 thors. "omg" is all he can say.

Hopefully this replay illustrates decent execution of this tactic, it worked well for me.

[image loading]

so he went marauders as support unit vs mutas? Yes, that rep must be a legit example how well mutas work against well built thor-based Terran armies

Btw i'm simply amazed so many people treat this as sg new, this has been discussed in topics, used by pros etc...
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Armsved
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark642 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-20 08:48:07
August 20 2010 08:47 GMT
#59
On August 20 2010 17:23 Jermstuddog wrote:
Surprised that this is being treated as new info.

Thors beat mutas in both gas and supply. They are plenty sufficient and I'm not going to agree that mutas are OP simply because your 3 Thors can't kill 30 mutalisks unassisted. The thing that is OP as fuck about Thors in TvZ is that they are a soft counter to EVERYTHING. The perfect embodiment of TvZ right there: you would only get thors to stop mutas, its already been stated in this thread several times, it just so happens that they're pretty damn good against everything else Z has too.

Marines are an even better counter to mutas. 0 gas vs 100 gas? yes please. Again, also good against everything Zerg except banelings and ultras, still 0 gas vs 100+


Not knocking OPs post, because he has good pictures and such, but how is everybody acting like this is a new thing for Zerg? Mutas being able to take Thors roughly 4:1 is the only thing keeping ZvT not completely laughable right now.

Even with smooth moves like this, I lost a game today which came down to 23 mutas and about 4 roaches vs 5 thors, 16 marines, 3 hellions, and 5 SCVs, you know who won? The guy who right-clicked an auto heal ability, and 1a'd his way through 4 bases off of 2. For the record, 0 Thors died in the process.

Please stop acting like mutas are OMG OP...


You are right, however in all these "ZvT is unbalanced" threads we see a lot of plat/low diamond, hell even mid diamond, complaining that T is OP simply based on "marauders are OP", "Thors are too strong vs muta", "tanks are too strong" etc. etc. And this is simply because people at this level do not understand how to work around these units. This thread is great at making Z players atleast understand how to work around Thors.

Players like Idra are not complaining about the individual units are too strong, but simply that T has too many opening that are simply too hard to scout which makes the matchup somewhat a coinflip for Z.

Muta linx Banling would had done great in the sitiuation you descriped. Also yeah marines do very well against any air, but they also die hard from baneling and fungal or pretty much any AOE.

What im basicly saying is the people acting "OMG OP" are the people who arent high level and are complaining about all kind of jazz which they really shouldnt complaing about. (thor vs muta etc.)
YOOO
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-20 08:54:44
August 20 2010 08:54 GMT
#60
On August 20 2010 17:47 Armsved wrote:

Players like Idra are not complaining about the individual units are too strong, but simply that T has too many opening that are simply too hard to scout which makes the matchup somewhat a coinflip for Z.


Exactly. People need to actually understand the matchup before crying about the wrong thing. T v Z is imbalanced, but not for the things more people cry about.



To OP: good post.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#46
PiGStarcraft483
SteadfastSC114
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft483
Nina 240
NeuroSwarm 116
SteadfastSC 114
ProTech74
Nathanias 74
RuFF_SC2 42
PattyMac 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 823
NaDa 82
Dota 2
monkeys_forever642
Counter-Strike
fl0m1610
taco 162
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox467
Other Games
summit1g7105
tarik_tv6495
shahzam1452
Day[9].tv797
WinterStarcraft362
C9.Mang0360
ViBE259
Maynarde122
ROOTCatZ10
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1017
BasetradeTV29
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• rockletztv 50
• Sammyuel 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt529
Other Games
• Scarra1027
• Day9tv797
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
8h 14m
hero vs Alone
Royal vs Barracks
Replay Cast
22h 14m
The PondCast
1d 8h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 9h
Clem vs Classic
herO vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
1d 22h
LiuLi Cup
2 days
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Cure vs Rogue
Classic vs HeRoMaRinE
Cosmonarchy
2 days
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
SC Evo League
3 days
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
3 days
ShoWTimE vs Cham
GuMiho vs Ryung
Zoun vs Spirit
Rogue vs MaNa
[BSL 2025] Weekly
3 days
SC Evo League
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 3
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.