EPTBut this month Stork is basically a lock for #1 now. In both leagues, 12-2 record for the month, plus he has momentum.
Power Rank 12/15/2010 - Page 17
| Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet |
|
Mortality
United States4790 Posts
But this month Stork is basically a lock for #1 now. In both leagues, 12-2 record for the month, plus he has momentum. | ||
|
jalstar
United States8198 Posts
Then Jaedong, Flash, and Bisu in that order. It looks like we're returning to TBLS dominance. Flash, despite being out of both leagues, is too good to be below 3. Kal and Calm should be next. Both are in both leagues and STX has been doing very well in PL. Kal goes down from 3 to 5 due to a mini-slump though. Hydra and Shine should get the 7 and 8 spots. Both got knocked out in the Ro16 of the OSL, but both are still in MSL and have been great in proleague. Fantasy should fall to 9th for abysmal PL and MSL results, only thing keeping him in the top 10 should be his OSL run. Last spot should go to Roro for his quiet but solid performance that he always seems to do, and his win over Stork in MSL. Sea, Light, Mind, Modesty, Hiya, and great should all be CBNCed. | ||
|
OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
Incoming dual titles in both leagues! Stork for #1 soon! | ||
|
Yxes2211
United States1587 Posts
What's more JD may lose ace matches, but one was to Stork who cheesed, the other are again ZvZ which are coinflips. And T1 is nowhere NEAR as dependent on Bisu as Oz is on JD. Two totally different PL situations. If they don't play tonight, let MSL decide, but I don't think JD should be knocked off #2 as of yet. But I'm kinda biased (look at my sig  )Edit: All for Stork as numero uno tho, saw him play against GoRush last night, fucking perfect display of PvZ | ||
|
Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
Stork is totally #1 by the way. :D I fucking love it! | ||
|
Mortality
United States4790 Posts
And the "coinflip" issues of the match-up did favor JD. I'm willing to overlook the flop so long as JD otherwise speaking shows us the JD we are used to and right now I do think JD is a sharper choice for #2, but that could change depending on results. Also, regarding Flash... #3 rank... by absolute skill, Flash is still probably #1 and I for the most part advocate PR as a measure of absolute skill. But the reality is, I have difficulty accepting the notion that a player not in either league should be above a player in both leagues. Right now that means Stork and Calm. Kal could potentially do this as well. The truth is, Flash has not had a good month. A 7-5 record could be forgiven if Flash had advanced in both individual leagues, or even just one of them, but he dropped the ball in both of them. Oops. | ||
|
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
I HAVE CONFUSION! | ||
|
Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
He's 70%+ in all three matchups. Still. He's 70%+ in all three matchups in his last ten (7-3 vs T, 9-1 vs Z, 7-3 vs P). I know the league thing counts, and I know he's taken some bad losses (by which I mean Ssak and Hyuk), but part of me is wanting to think that Flash is still the best, baddest player out there. We're in a very weird place right now where probably the best player (Flash) has no apparent weaknesses overall - except that the (apparently unavoidable) fail games are all happening when it counts. Jaedong's got problems with top Terran right now, but he's still in the MSL. Stork's PvP is an issue, but he's through both leagues and playing brilliantly in PL. Bisu may be the scariest player right now, but he's dropped the OSL and has that MSL Group of Death. Kal has the starleague results (so far) but lacks that convincing aura, or a defining matchup (despite being able to beat Flash). Shine's run seems to have been cut down abruptly. Hydra's got astonishing results - but he's a relative no-name. I guess I just don't feel quite right about Flash losing #1 - which he clearly has to - when no one's really stepped up to take it away from him. I'm aware others have said this before as well, but I'm adding my thoughts. And I'm saying this because I'm trying to justify what I'd do with the PR: I'd only drop Flash to #2, as of right now. It would look like this: 1. Stork 2. Flash 3/4/5 Kal/Jaedong/Bisu 6? Calm 7? Hydra And then some combination of: Hyuk, fantasy, RorO, Leta, Zero? Basically, flamewheel, you have my sympathy. | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
Hydra could end up winning 20 games in a row and I still won't remember anything about him. All I'll remember is Violet losing eight probes to two zerglings or Free screwing up his forge expand. The guy is a good player but he's like the Guemchi in the sense that he somehow brings the worst out of his opponents. | ||
|
ZZangDreamjOy
Canada959 Posts
On December 28 2010 13:02 Musoeun wrote: I know you simply can't forgive dropping both leagues, but I was looking through TLPD and I noticed something about Flash: He's 70%+ in all three matchups. Still. He's 70%+ in all three matchups in his last ten (7-3 vs T, 9-1 vs Z, 7-3 vs P). I know the league thing counts, and I know he's taken some bad losses (by which I mean Ssak and Hyuk), but part of me is wanting to think that Flash is still the best, baddest player out there. We're in a very weird place right now where probably the best player (Flash) has no apparent weaknesses overall - except that the (apparently unavoidable) fail games are all happening when it counts. Jaedong's got problems with top Terran right now, but he's still in the MSL. Stork's PvP is an issue, but he's through both leagues and playing brilliantly in PL. Bisu may be the scariest player right now, but he's dropped the OSL and has that MSL Group of Death. Kal has the starleague results (so far) but lacks that convincing aura, or a defining matchup (despite being able to beat Flash). Shine's run seems to have been cut down abruptly. Hydra's got astonishing results - but he's a relative no-name. I guess I just don't feel quite right about Flash losing #1 - which he clearly has to - when no one's really stepped up to take it away from him. I'm aware others have said this before as well, but I'm adding my thoughts. And I'm saying this because I'm trying to justify what I'd do with the PR: I'd only drop Flash to #2, as of right now. It would look like this: 1. Stork 2. Flash 3/4/5 Kal/Jaedong/Bisu 6? Calm 7? Hydra And then some combination of: Hyuk, fantasy, RorO, Leta, Zero? Basically, flamewheel, you have my sympathy. FlaSh deserves #2 over multiple players in starleagues and/or with comparative records in PL? Insane. He may still be the best, he may have been found out, we won't know for a while yet, but the fact of the matter is that he dropped out of both leagues, and although I can see how he coudld lose to Kal on a protoss favored map, losing to Ssak, Classic, and HyuK is just a terrible blow. He deserves #5 at most. | ||
|
Yxes2211
United States1587 Posts
On December 28 2010 13:02 Musoeun wrote: I know you simply can't forgive dropping both leagues, but I was looking through TLPD and I noticed something about Flash: He's 70%+ in all three matchups. Still. He's 70%+ in all three matchups in his last ten (7-3 vs T, 9-1 vs Z, 7-3 vs P). I know the league thing counts, and I know he's taken some bad losses (by which I mean Ssak and Hyuk), but part of me is wanting to think that Flash is still the best, baddest player out there. We're in a very weird place right now where probably the best player (Flash) has no apparent weaknesses overall - except that the (apparently unavoidable) fail games are all happening when it counts. Jaedong's got problems with top Terran right now, but he's still in the MSL. Stork's PvP is an issue, but he's through both leagues and playing brilliantly in PL. Bisu may be the scariest player right now, but he's dropped the OSL and has that MSL Group of Death. Kal has the starleague results (so far) but lacks that convincing aura, or a defining matchup (despite being able to beat Flash). Shine's run seems to have been cut down abruptly. Hydra's got astonishing results - but he's a relative no-name. I agree with that. Despite being eliminated Flash is still the scariest and best player. I get a feeling Flash is going to go on a PL winstreak that would put GoRush to shame. | ||
|
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On December 28 2010 13:02 Musoeun wrote: I know you simply can't forgive dropping both leagues, but I was looking through TLPD and I noticed something about Flash: He's 70%+ in all three matchups. Still. He's 70%+ in all three matchups in his last ten (7-3 vs T, 9-1 vs Z, 7-3 vs P). I know the league thing counts, and I know he's taken some bad losses (by which I mean Ssak and Hyuk), but part of me is wanting to think that Flash is still the best, baddest player out there. We're in a very weird place right now where probably the best player (Flash) has no apparent weaknesses overall - except that the (apparently unavoidable) fail games are all happening when it counts. Jaedong's got problems with top Terran right now, but he's still in the MSL. Stork's PvP is an issue, but he's through both leagues and playing brilliantly in PL. Bisu may be the scariest player right now, but he's dropped the OSL and has that MSL Group of Death. Kal has the starleague results (so far) but lacks that convincing aura, or a defining matchup (despite being able to beat Flash). Shine's run seems to have been cut down abruptly. Hydra's got astonishing results - but he's a relative no-name. I guess I just don't feel quite right about Flash losing #1 - which he clearly has to - when no one's really stepped up to take it away from him. I'm aware others have said this before as well, but I'm adding my thoughts. And I'm saying this because I'm trying to justify what I'd do with the PR: I'd only drop Flash to #2, as of right now. It would look like this: 1. Stork 2. Flash 3/4/5 Kal/Jaedong/Bisu 6? Calm 7? Hydra And then some combination of: Hyuk, fantasy, RorO, Leta, Zero? Basically, flamewheel, you have my sympathy. To be honest, he deserves a fairly steep drop to #4/5(probably #4 since Shine just dropped a league). The fact that he's 'still Flash' means something, but he can't keep #2 just on that because frankly, if you're the most skilled player in the world but you don't accomplish anything, then what good is all that skill? | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On December 28 2010 13:02 Musoeun wrote: Basically, flamewheel, you have my sympathy. Yeah this could get silly. Luckily I have a magic 8-ball. | ||
|
Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On December 28 2010 13:29 ZZangDreamjOy wrote: FlaSh deserves #2 over multiple players in starleagues and/or with comparative records in PL? Insane. He may still be the best, he may have been found out, we won't know for a while yet, but the fact of the matter is that he dropped out of both leagues, and although I can see how he coudld lose to Kal on a protoss favored map, losing to Ssak, Classic, and HyuK is just a terrible blow. He deserves #5 at most. He's right in what he's saying but he's wrong -- IMO -- in assuming it's adequate justification to keep Flash at (or near) the top of the PR. Flash is still the scariest player, still the strongest. If your life was at stake, he's still the player you would bet on. Dual finals last season, tremendous momentum to start off this season... but I don't think giving him such a high rank is justifiable. Advancing in individual leagues is the most important thing. I agree that it's awkward giving Flash a low rank when it's not really like he's worse than the guys above him. Hell, it's even like they are comparable in skill because they are not. He's still bonjwa. But let's face it: Flash has now been relegated to the ranks of "proleague only" for the entire rest of the season. In Ro32 of MSL no less. In my mind, 7-5 and dropping from both leagues is worse than 5-7 and advancing in one of them. This is why I feel uncomfortable putting someone who just got disqualified from both leagues in the same month over players who advanced in both of them. He's going to get a bone tossed to him for being bonjwa. Automatically he will be ranked ahead of many other players who managed to advance in just one league. But at a certain point you have to ask why you are tossing such a large bone when he lost the games that mattered most? | ||
|
Zaxro
United States261 Posts
On December 28 2010 16:06 Mortality wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 28 2010 13:29 ZZangDreamjOy wrote: FlaSh deserves #2 over multiple players in starleagues and/or with comparative records in PL? Insane. He may still be the best, he may have been found out, we won't know for a while yet, but the fact of the matter is that he dropped out of both leagues, and although I can see how he coudld lose to Kal on a protoss favored map, losing to Ssak, Classic, and HyuK is just a terrible blow. He deserves #5 at most. He's right in what he's saying but he's wrong -- IMO -- in assuming it's adequate justification to keep Flash at (or near) the top of the PR. Flash is still the scariest player, still the strongest. If your life was at stake, he's still the player you would bet on. Dual finals last season, tremendous momentum to start off this season... but I don't think giving him such a high rank is justifiable. Advancing in individual leagues is the most important thing. I agree that it's awkward giving Flash a low rank when it's not really like he's worse than the guys above him. Hell, it's even like they are comparable in skill because they are not. He's still bonjwa. But let's face it: Flash has now been relegated to the ranks of "proleague only" for the entire rest of the season. In Ro32 of MSL no less. In my mind, 7-5 and dropping from both leagues is worse than 5-7 and advancing in one of them. This is why I feel uncomfortable putting someone who just got disqualified from both leagues in the same month over players who advanced in both of them. He's going to get a bone tossed to him for being bonjwa. Automatically he will be ranked ahead of many other players who managed to advance in just one league. But at a certain point you have to ask why you are tossing such a large bone when he lost the games that mattered most? I agree with the post. Flash may be Flash but not being in either league this early is really bad. I can't justify having him above people in both leagues when he is in neither. Even though he is bonjwa since winning both leagues last season, what good is it being the best if you don't get results? I think everyone can agree that Stork is #1. He is in both leagues, the favorite to win the OSL and one of the favorites to win the MSL. And to add onto that he is 6-0 in proleague this month and it is really hard to argue him being anything but #1. After Stork the ranking gets a lot harder. Calm is the only other player certainly in both leagues and Kal is the only person who could be a post group stage dual-leaguer The other people in the running for tops spots are Bisu, Jaedong and Shine. Bisu/Shine Obviously need to advance in MSL to be top 5, and the only way for Bisu to be above Jaedong is if he beats him head to head in PL (Or absolutely destroy his MSL group) After considering all this I personally would have the rank look something like this (Assuming that Bisu and Kal get through group H because that makes the ranking the least messy) 1.  Stork-Explained above2.  Jaedong-Favorite to win MSL and doing really well in PL. JD is above Bisu because he made dual finals last season and I consider history.3. Bisu-One of the favorites to win the MSL and doing really well in PL.4. Kal-Doing OK in PL and possibly dual league. If he beats Bisu in MSL he should be higher than him5. Calm-If there are only three people in both leagues he deserves top five basically. Doing pretty poorly in PL but has individual league results6.  Flash-He is Flash so he gets a spot, but I can't justify him being higher than the five people above him with the results he has7. Hydra-Great record overall, though his loss to fantasy in the OSL looked pretty bad8. Shine-This is assuming he is knocked out of MSL, but his recent record is incredible so he deserves a lower spot9. Fantasy-Despite looking like shit in most of his games since his OSL match vs Modesty he is still in the OSL Ro8 and just over a month ago had a 12 win streak and looked like he was S-class10. RorO/great-Tenth spot was hard because there was really no one who jumped out past the first nine. Both of these guys are in MSL and looked good in their Ro32 matches so I would put one of them at #10 but really anyone on CNBCC who is in one of the leagues could have this spotI think the top 9 should definitely be on the rank but the order they should be in is difficult and is dependent on the matches in the next few days CNBC: Light, HiyA, Modesty, Hyuk, ZerO, Neo.G_Soulkey, free, Snow, Mind, Leta, Bogus, firebathero Sea (really just a WTF is wrong with him)The top five is mostly going to change around based on MSL group H. Kal is near top 5 no matter what imo (though it could be as high as #2 if he wrecks the group but #5 or 6 if he doesn't advance), but whoever of Bisu/Shine advances should get top 5, but if they don't they should be lower than Hydra. If Really gets through he should get #10 or CNBC | ||
|
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
That was a pretty greedy build, but he didn't even put up a fight. He just kinda rolled over. | ||
|
p14c
Vatican City State431 Posts
 Anyway he already beat Stork in proleague. | ||
|
endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
| ||
|
Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
| ||
mustaju
Estonia4504 Posts
Calm hasn't even been mentioned in CBNC yet. He has a pretty decent vP in his last 10 games, along with an equally decent vZ. He made dual leagues and he's resurging in ZvT as well. Sure, he might not be dominating, but he has results and some very nifty games. | ||
| ||
