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baubo
China3370 Posts
On December 26 2010 22:29 flamewheel wrote: Headache. On the contrary, as much as I kind of want to see Stork #2 just for the hell of it, he seems safely in the lead for #1. Ro8 OSL, Ro16 MSL. 5-0 in the PL. Dude is having a perfect month... fail against Roro in the MSL notwithstanding. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On December 26 2010 23:04 baubo wrote: On the contrary, as much as I kind of want to see Stork #2 just for the hell of it, he seems safely in the lead for #1. Ro8 OSL, Ro16 MSL. 5-0 in the PL. Dude is having a perfect month... fail against Roro in the MSL notwithstanding. Well it's not that. In the same sense, had Shine gone 2-0 we could have pretty much said the same thing for him. The #1 spot is easiest of all to ascertain since you can pretty much draw from any benchmark or guideline you want, as long as consistency is maintained... I was more referring to the SPL games played last night. | ||
c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
Guys who are doing well in Starleague are for the most part not doing well in proleague or, like Calm, are a bit untrustworthy (never know when Clam will pull that switcheroo). | ||
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swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On December 26 2010 22:29 flamewheel wrote: Headache. Neo.G_soulkey #1 enough said | ||
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revy
United States1524 Posts
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ZZangDreamjOy
Canada959 Posts
On December 26 2010 17:55 Lightwip wrote: Wow, Bisu's really tearing PL up. I think he needs to be at least #2 if he wins his MSL group 2-0. Tiebreakers coming up, really gonna determine a lot of stuff as far as better players go. I wouldn't even put Bisu in the top 5 unless he dominates his group. His proleague record comes from bashing a lot of mediocre players/slumping players so it really isn't all that impressive. And watching his games, he seems very sloppy, except in a few PvZ's that hes played. | ||
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Fushin
France193 Posts
So even if it feels a bit fast to put him #1, if you put aside Flash and Jaedong legacy, i think he's the more deserving. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On December 27 2010 02:02 ZZangDreamjOy wrote: I wouldn't even put Bisu in the top 5 unless he dominates his group. His proleague record comes from bashing a lot of mediocre players/slumping players so it really isn't all that impressive. And watching his games, he seems very sloppy, except in a few PvZ's that hes played. ...Is Shine any different? He was put at #4 for pretty much beating mediocre players, along with Bisu. Sea is horrible at vZ this time around, so he really doesn't count. Furthermore, that's simply not true. He's played and beaten some tough opponents. At this point, if Bisu 2-0s his group, I think he is #2, because 1 league+PL God>0 leagues+PL god(Flash) or 1 League+PL God> 1 League+ Less of a PL God(Jaedong). Stork pretty much is #1 right now and there's not much that can change that unless he plays bad for the rest of the month. But where does Shine fit in all of this? If Bisu goes 2-0 and Shine(or Kal) 2-1, then I think it's like this: 1. Stork 2. Bisu 3. Jaedong 4. Flash 5. 2-1 of Group H 6. Eliminated from Group H Oh and if Really wins, things may be even more difficult. On an unrelated note, a new group has formed in ELO. On top is the LeeSsang, who are far removed from those below, and then there's TaekBang, again far removed from the ones below(about 50 ELO). Things are quickly becoming as they should be. | ||
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On December 27 2010 02:02 ZZangDreamjOy wrote: I wouldn't even put Bisu in the top 5 unless he dominates his group. His proleague record comes from bashing a lot of mediocre players/slumping players so it really isn't all that impressive. And watching his games, he seems very sloppy, except in a few PvZ's that hes played. Since free's my favorite Protoss, and Stork and Jangbi are my team Protoss, I feel bad defending Bisu, but I really think you're selling him way short. I'm not calling him #1 - since this month he's been outperformed by Stork, he simply can't reasonably be #1 when he's not even the #1 Protoss - and #2 is probably Jaedong (1 and 2 is Stork/Jaedong at this point, I'd say), but #3 would make sense if he gets through the MSL group. But you can't just dismiss his wins as "mediocre players/slumping players". Let's review:  Sea - okay, slump. But 1) 2-2 against Bisu before this game and 2) the game was on a map that was 2-7 in PvT. Yeah, five wins from Flash and fantasy. But BByong over Jangbi, even bad Jangbi? Ruby over Pure? This map has problems. great - KHAN's best Zerg. ZvP is probably his best MU. Guy had put together two wins against free and Movie. Almost beat Bisu in R1.Iris - probably mediocre now. But he hasn't always been; his TvP is 56% overall, and he's 6-7 against Bisu coming into the game.Action - loss. To me, this is the biggest strike against him, because I don't think Action is very good. - and Bisu got completely outplayed. On the other hand, it is Action's best MU. On the other other hand, this may have come in the last PR period and so not count (as much) towards this coming one.It's not like Bisu's been playing Flash, fantasy, Really, Horang2, etc. etc. and winning against top vP players, I admit; but it's not like he's been playing Juni, Saint, Dear, or whoever else either. On December 27 2010 03:13 Lightwip wrote: ...I think he is #2, because 1 league+PL God>0 leagues+PL god(Flash) or 1 League+PL God> 1 League+ Less of a PL God(Jaedong)... I'm all set to defend Bisu as having a fantastic time right now, but excuse me? Bisu > Jaedong in PL how? JD's played more games, against tougher opponents. Yeah, on pure winning percentage Bisu's done better, and Jaedong's ace dominance certainly isn't what it has been. On the other hand Bisu has some competent teammates, while OZ's #2 is... Anytime. Just-back-from-ACE Anytime. (Though I love Sashin, don't get me wrong, he's still not a #2 on a reasonable team. Not #2 the way we all thought HiyA would be #2 like usual.) On the individual league front losing to HoGiL is way worse than losing to Shine. But when Bisu hasn't yet made it into the next stage of the MSL I think it's premature to be calling him #2. Of course, if he loses in the MSL he's down to like #7, because it's really not that fantastic, but if he wins the group (especially 2-0), his PL opponents are hardly going to drag him down. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
If Bisu obliterates his group I'd consider the possibility of a #2 spot. Otherwise it's looking like 1. Stork, 2. JD. I also think that the possibility of putting Calm and Kal (if he advances from group H) over Flash should be considered, even though I think Flash is stronger. As I said, I'm inclined to feel that a player qualified for both leagues should be over a player qualified for neither. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On December 27 2010 03:26 Musoeun wrote: I'm all set to defend Bisu as having a fantastic time right now, but excuse me? Bisu > Jaedong in PL how? JD's played more games, against tougher opponents. Yeah, on pure winning percentage Bisu's done better, and Jaedong's ace dominance certainly isn't what it has been. On the other hand Bisu has some competent teammates, while OZ's #2 is... Anytime. Just-back-from-ACE Anytime. (Though I love Sashin, don't get me wrong, he's still not a #2 on a reasonable team. Not #2 the way we all thought HiyA would be #2 like usual.) On the individual league front losing to HoGiL is way worse than losing to Shine. But when Bisu hasn't yet made it into the next stage of the MSL I think it's premature to be calling him #2. Of course, if he loses in the MSL he's down to like #7, because it's really not that fantastic, but if he wins the group (especially 2-0), his PL opponents are hardly going to drag him down. Bisu>JD in PL simply because he's had more success. What strong opponents has Jaedong played? Lightx2 and Stork, along with a slew of people he should usually beat. Yet he lost in every game to Stork and Light, along with losing a few key ace matches, his only wins against Modesty and Piano, not too inspiring of opponents. Frankly, he just hasn't done well in important matches or games against strong opponents. 17-5 is by no means a bad record, but it's not better than 16-2. Bisu's strong opponents? Kal, Sea, Zero, and arguably Really. He's only lost 2 games so far, 1 was a failed 3 gate(I do fault him a lot for this, don't get me wrong), and a game against Action where Action played a lot better than he usually does. And he's beaten each of these difficult opponents, although he went 1-1 against Kal. Honestly, I don't see how you can say Jaedong is doing better in PL right now. Of course, all this hinges on 2-0 in MSL. If he drops out, he's closer to #5, and if he goes 2-1, he probably belongs at #3 because while JD went out against weaker opponents in OSL and won 2-0 in an easy group(for him), he should probably get the benefit of the doubt for a long streak of dominance. | ||
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
On December 27 2010 04:34 Mortality wrote: I think he's referring to Bisu's 16-2 PL record, compared with JD's 17-5 PL record. My main criticism of Bisu is not his PL record but that he's played two BO3's this season and not done very well... (Shine and Kal whomped him). If Bisu obliterates his group I'd consider the possibility of a #2 spot. Otherwise it's looking like 1. Stork, 2. JD. I also think that the possibility of putting Calm and Kal (if he advances from group H) over Flash should be considered, even though I think Flash is stronger. As I said, I'm inclined to feel that a player qualified for both leagues should be over a player qualified for neither. Well I wouldn't hold the bo3 against Kal too much as he demolished his survivor group to get into MSL and i dont know how seriously that wildcard tourney was taken. The Shine bo3 wasn't good by any means but I dont think its any worse than the group 1-2 with losses to Hiya and Hogil. As for proleague Jaedong beat Roo and Jangbi and lost to Light. I'll be interested to see how Bisu and Jaedong do in the head to head proleague match of T1 vs Oz coming up. A head to head battle would be great, but who knows if it will happen. I pretty much agree with what you say, Bisu must at least advance from his group to have any shot at number 2. If he does flame out of his second league he'll probably end up barely making the rank, so it all comes down to his MSL group. | ||
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
Jaedong: W: rOo, Jangbi x2, hero x2, Pure, sKyHigh, Piano, Soulkey, GoRush, BeSt, Crazy-Hydra, ggaemo, RorO (#10), Modesty, Stats L: Light x2 (PR 10), ZerO, Stork (#3, PR 6) Mixed: Hydra (1-1) (#8, PR 8) Bisu: W: Sea (PR 9), great x2, Iris, ZerO, RorO (#10), PerfectMan, Calm, Rock, Shine (#6, PR 4), Soulkey, Really, HoGiL, HyuN, fOrGG L: Action Mixed: Kal (#5, PR 3) (1-1) Shared opponents: RorO: Jaedong W, Bisu W Soulkey: Jaedong W, Bisu W ZerO: Jaedong L, Bisu W So... okay, fine. Advantage Bisu on Proleague records. (Although in R2 Jaedong's record is better than Bisu's, 8-2 to 6-2.) Jaedong has no "good wins": his best are Stats, RorO, and PianO. On the other hand he has no bad losses; the worst is ZerO. Bisu has a couple "good wins": Sea, great, Shine. On the other hand he did take a poor loss to Action. All that said, I don't consider Bisu a #2 candidate until he makes it out of the MSL group - because against Shine, Kal, and Really I'm expecting him to not make it, and even though it's a tough group, at some point those results matter. | ||
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vishrut
United States567 Posts
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On December 27 2010 11:07 Froadac wrote: I do agree with that. Powerranking was well done as alway s. We need a SC2 powerrank soon I think for that you could just take the Ro16 participants and put them in order by how far they got+their record. Because there's really nothing to measure SC2 players on. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On December 27 2010 11:07 Froadac wrote: I do agree with that. Powerranking was well done as alway s. We need a SC2 powerrank soon What's the point really? What do we have to base a PR off? Just GSL? Might as well just take the winner, put him at 1, runner up at 2, etc. | ||
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luckybeni2
Germany1065 Posts
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
If you remember last month, I predicted Stork at #6 this month, and somewhere #2-5 January and #1 February. He is now poised to take #1 in January. Oh yes, I am looking forward to this. I predicted that Flash and JD would both lose on both the OSL and MSL Ro16/Ro32, but 3/4 isn't bad. Throw my vote in for a new PR on the first of January. Should get you before OSL Ro8, after MSL Ro32, and before a new week of SPL. | ||
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