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Power Rank 12/15/2010 - Page 18

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
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topherthetoad
Profile Joined September 2008
China130 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-28 16:08:51
December 28 2010 16:08 GMT
#341
Yeah, not mentioning (Z)Calm is a crime. This month he's a top 5 sleeper.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
December 28 2010 16:18 GMT
#342
IMO Calm deserves to be ranked right above Flash. What Calm lacks is momentum. People aren't convinced that his evil twin Clam won't come back. But Calm is 10-3 this month with his only losses being to Light, Jaedong, and Hydra.

On December 28 2010 21:26 Holgerius wrote:
It's funny how Flash is still around 50 ELO points ahead of the #2. :D


ELO treats all games as equal. It doesn't really care that Flash dropped out of both Starleagues, it only sees the 4 losses Flash picked up on the way. Actually, I anticipate Flash's ELO going up. With only proleague to focus on he is likely to go on a massive tear. But ELO is only one particular measurement and it's not always the best indicator of what's happening. Even if Flash sets a new ELO peak record and even if he breaks Gorush's record winstreak, there is no denying that this has been Flash's worst season for at least the past year.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
December 28 2010 16:28 GMT
#343
On December 29 2010 01:18 Mortality wrote:
IMO Calm deserves to be ranked right above Flash. What Calm lacks is momentum. People aren't convinced that his evil twin Clam won't come back. But Calm is 10-3 this month with his only losses being to Light, Jaedong, and Hydra.

Show nested quote +
On December 28 2010 21:26 Holgerius wrote:
It's funny how Flash is still around 50 ELO points ahead of the #2. :D


ELO treats all games as equal. It doesn't really care that Flash dropped out of both Starleagues, it only sees the 4 losses Flash picked up on the way. Actually, I anticipate Flash's ELO going up. With only proleague to focus on he is likely to go on a massive tear. But ELO is only one particular measurement and it's not always the best indicator of what's happening. Even if Flash sets a new ELO peak record and even if he breaks Gorush's record winstreak, there is no denying that this has been Flash's worst season for at least the past year.

Not denying that. It has been a horrible month for Flash. It's still funny though; it shows just how far ahead of everyone else he has been.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
kamizushi
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada52 Posts
December 28 2010 17:10 GMT
#344
It's normal to loose a few PR rank when a good player had a bad month. If flash is still the best, he should get his first spot in no time. But right now, he is not doing well enough to be first.
Hey
luckybeni2
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany1065 Posts
December 28 2010 17:40 GMT
#345
On December 29 2010 02:10 kamizushi wrote:
It's normal to loose a few PR rank when a good player had a bad month. If flash is still the best, he should get his first spot in no time. But right now, he is not doing well enough to be first.

Not to forget that he can not prove his superiority due to his lack of individual leagues. But he did not play that good in general so we can not say that he will even continue his proleague run. Who thought he could lose probably the worst msl group ever? And continue to lose a mediocre OSL group? You can not rely on titles you won 2 months ago. Same goes for JD. He has looked very mortal and I can't see anyone put him as #2 atm. There is still the last msl group but I doubt it will cange too much
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
December 28 2010 18:50 GMT
#346
On December 29 2010 02:40 luckybeni2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2010 02:10 kamizushi wrote:
It's normal to loose a few PR rank when a good player had a bad month. If flash is still the best, he should get his first spot in no time. But right now, he is not doing well enough to be first.

Not to forget that he can not prove his superiority due to his lack of individual leagues. But he did not play that good in general so we can not say that he will even continue his proleague run. Who thought he could lose probably the worst msl group ever? And continue to lose a mediocre OSL group? You can not rely on titles you won 2 months ago. Same goes for JD. He has looked very mortal and I can't see anyone put him as #2 atm. There is still the last msl group but I doubt it will cange too much


If he continues to dominate in PL he can easily prove he is better than anyone else. Everyone loses games and Flash happened to lose them at the wrong time.

If you were going to die and someone had to play a Bo5 to save your life, which player would you choose to play it for you? Shine? Come on.
RIP Aaliyah
Fushin
Profile Joined June 2010
France193 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-28 18:56:16
December 28 2010 18:54 GMT
#347
Everyone loses game indeed, but Flash lost important games, that's what matters. I don't think anyone actually believe Flash is done, but right now, this month, his games showed that he's not #1.

He should still be on top 10, and he'll probably come back top 3 soon, but that's a monthly ranking, though we do take into account the past, it can't decide the whole ranking.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
December 28 2010 19:09 GMT
#348
Even I would not place Flash as #1 at the moment.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-28 19:17:15
December 28 2010 19:15 GMT
#349
...Nowhere close to the worst MSL group ever. Actually, I'm not entirely sure that group A was easier than group F of this MSL, not even counting that ForGG retired...

And the last MSL group can change egverything. What if Bisu gets 2-0'd? Then he's not in either league. What is Shine gets 2-0'd? Same deal. Kal at least is guaranteed to be in at least one league, but his overall results for this month is an abysmal 6-8 against competition of mixed skill and I hesitate to give him the nod over JD who has much stronger results.

From the perspective of PR, it would be easiest if Shine and Bisu win group H. Here's what I see:
Stork (12-2 in Dec, advanced in both leagues, strong momentum) - obvious #1
Shine (7-4, dropped in OSL, needs to advance in MSL)
Bisu (6-2, very strong momentum, not in OSL, needs an MSL win)
Kal (6-8, advanced in OSL, despite strong momentum, needs an MSL win to vouch for him)
Jaedong (10-5, advanced in MSL, looking kiiiinda shaky, but he's still Jaedong)
Hydra (11-2, advanced in MSL, dropped in OSL, could this be his breakout season?)
Calm (10-3, advanced in both leagues... he's back... I think)
Great (8-2, advanced in MSL can he hold the momentum?)
Fantasy (7-8, squeaked by in OSL, fell in MSL, worst month he's had in a long time)
Leta (6-3, rode in on a personal record win streak but crashed and burned in MSL, not in OSL)
Modesty (5-2, advanced in OSL, still not sure you aren't just a ZvZ whose had a little luck lately)
Baby (5-1, but not in either league... so...)
Snow (7-3, advanced in MSL, now at personal best ELO, but I worry about his PvZ)
Edit: forgot Flash, lol (7-5, dropped both leagues, ouchie)

That's pretty much everyone who came to mind as a contender. Someone mentioned Hyuk, but he's 3-4 in December and if you look at his stats, 2-8 in his last 10 ZvT, 1-9 in his last 10 ZvZ... the only MU he's doing okay in is ZvP. And some other players who are normally reliable like Soulkey just have not had good months.

A major shoutout needs to be given to ACE on this ranking. They are doing quite well in proleague. Xellos in particular is 3-0 for them, and ggaemo deserves mention because he sucked his whole time on OZ and is now playing better than he ever did for them.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
stolensheep
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom306 Posts
December 28 2010 20:08 GMT
#350
stork's unstoppable at the moment, i'd be very surprised if we see someone else in #1 spot next month, flash is having a terrible month and jaedongs having not a great month (he got manhandled by bisu today to top it all off).

get ready for a new look power ranking in the first month of 2011!
twitter.com/stolensheeps
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
December 28 2010 20:21 GMT
#351
Question here, would we have the OSL final next month?
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
December 28 2010 20:21 GMT
#352
On December 28 2010 21:26 Holgerius wrote:
It's funny how Flash is still around 50 ELO points ahead of the #2. :D

To be fair, Jaedong hasn't been doing so great and the reigning #3 just fell, and the gap has yet to be closed by TaekBang.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
December 28 2010 20:34 GMT
#353
On December 29 2010 05:21 Xiphos wrote:
Question here, would we have the OSL final next month?


Pretty sure no. Should come around in Feburary.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
December 28 2010 20:35 GMT
#354
On December 28 2010 13:02 Musoeun wrote:
I know you simply can't forgive dropping both leagues, but I was looking through TLPD and I noticed something about Flash:

He's 70%+ in all three matchups. Still. He's 70%+ in all three matchups in his last ten (7-3 vs T, 9-1 vs Z, 7-3 vs P). I know the league thing counts, and I know he's taken some bad losses (by which I mean Ssak and Hyuk), but part of me is wanting to think that Flash is still the best, baddest player out there.

I agree and I think others do. If I would base it on a feeling I'd still put flash at #1 because I still believe that he's the best with only jaedong being close.
However I would drop him a few spots based on the criteria of the PR if I understand it correctly.

According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
December 28 2010 20:39 GMT
#355
On December 29 2010 05:35 StylishVODs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2010 13:02 Musoeun wrote:
I know you simply can't forgive dropping both leagues, but I was looking through TLPD and I noticed something about Flash:

He's 70%+ in all three matchups. Still. He's 70%+ in all three matchups in his last ten (7-3 vs T, 9-1 vs Z, 7-3 vs P). I know the league thing counts, and I know he's taken some bad losses (by which I mean Ssak and Hyuk), but part of me is wanting to think that Flash is still the best, baddest player out there.

I agree and I think others do. If I would base it on a feeling I'd still put flash at #1 because I still believe that he's the best with only jaedong being close.
However I would drop him a few spots based on the criteria of the PR if I understand it correctly.


As I said before, if you're the best but don't win anything, does it do you any good?
When you have skill, you have to get results. Flash has failed to do so.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
December 28 2010 22:00 GMT
#356
And if Jaedong is the only one close, why did he get destroyed by Bisu?
...

There are three leagues. Now the players themselves consider SPL the most important. But not enough to give Flash a spot in the top 2. Assuming Bisu and Kal take their MSL group, regardless of who went 2-0, they deserve the be higher than Flash. Kal's SPL performance is poor, but he has two leagues that Flash failed in. Bisu will have 1 league and SPL performance on par with Flash. Calm has been doing good and is in both leagues. He survived an OSL group that Jaedong lacked the skill to advance from.

1. Stork
2. Bisu
3-5 Calm / Jaedong / Kal (hard to call this order, could go any way)
6. Flash (SPL performance is outstanding)

^Remember, this is assuming that Kal and Bisu advance ahead of Shine. If Bisu loses he should be 1 spot below Flash. Just like Flash he has an incredible SPL record, but he lacks the recent history so Flash would get a nod. Hard to place Kal if he loses. His SPL record is poor, so just the OSL might not be enough to put him above Flash.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
December 28 2010 23:10 GMT
#357
Yeah he got destroyed by bisu last time that auto means he's terrible? lolol 1 game doesn't prove anything. If it was a bo3 or something sure you could use that but it was just 1 match against eachother.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
December 28 2010 23:27 GMT
#358
Calm down. I'm just fighting the claim that a) Flash is #1 and b) JD is #2. Flash is out of both leagues, and JD just lost a game to arguably the other contender for the #2 spot. Bisu and JD are obviously very close, but their most recent game has shown that JD should not get an automatic bye into the #2 rank on the PR. Assuming Bisu survives his MSL group, their both be 1 league with good SPL records. Bisu winning the latest head-to-head gives him the advantage.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
December 28 2010 23:44 GMT
#359
On December 29 2010 08:10 blade55555 wrote:
Yeah he got destroyed by bisu last time that auto means he's terrible? lolol 1 game doesn't prove anything. If it was a bo3 or something sure you could use that but it was just 1 match against eachother.

Does the fact that Jaedong lost to EVERY good player he's played so far mean anything? Bisu is just the 5th time this happened.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
December 28 2010 23:48 GMT
#360
On December 29 2010 07:00 Crisium wrote:
And if Jaedong is the only one close, why did he get destroyed by Bisu?
...

There are three leagues. Now the players themselves consider SPL the most important. But not enough to give Flash a spot in the top 2. Assuming Bisu and Kal take their MSL group, regardless of who went 2-0, they deserve the be higher than Flash. Kal's SPL performance is poor, but he has two leagues that Flash failed in. Bisu will have 1 league and SPL performance on par with Flash. Calm has been doing good and is in both leagues. He survived an OSL group that Jaedong lacked the skill to advance from.

1. Stork
2. Bisu
3-5 Calm / Jaedong / Kal (hard to call this order, could go any way)
6. Flash (SPL performance is outstanding)

^Remember, this is assuming that Kal and Bisu advance ahead of Shine. If Bisu loses he should be 1 spot below Flash. Just like Flash he has an incredible SPL record, but he lacks the recent history so Flash would get a nod. Hard to place Kal if he loses. His SPL record is poor, so just the OSL might not be enough to put him above Flash.


PL is more important for say... Bogus because he knows he's never gonna win a starleague but for someone with an actual chance to win the whole thing SL are more important then PL (even stork said he's gonna stop playing cellphone games to practice for OSL)
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