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9071 Posts
On October 20 2009 02:23 Vasoline73 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2009 02:15 disciple wrote:On October 20 2009 01:55 Hot_Bid wrote:On October 20 2009 01:50 Vasoline73 wrote:
I have no idea who this guy is but I know he's better than Boxer.
Hilarious although somewhat sad. I really liked this article more than the Backseat Broodwar, just because it's more in line with the way I feel. I have alot of respect for old gamers, but I would much rather watch Flash play than Boxer or Nada play. Much rather watch Bisu play than Nal_Ra. Personally I thought Heritage was pretty boring minus Boxer/Yellow and I've always been sort of annoyed by the whole "remember the days where Gods walked amongst us", "there's a reason Bisu, Jaedong, Flash call so-so hyung"... kind of talk. Yeah it's cause they're older. And of course respected, but not every fan has to pretend to be excited to see old gamers play now just so they don't look like bandwagoners.
And do I get excited when I open up the OSL or MSL offline prelim threads to see if Boxer or Yellow advanced? Of course. Would Boxer or Yellow getting to the semis or finals of a Starleague be way more exciting/epic than Flash getting there? Hell yes. I would kill to see a comeback like that. But that would imply they got good again.. and until that happens, I don't really care to see too many of their games. That's just the truth.
On a side note, I still really enjoyed reading backseat broodwar and it's annoying that everyone is hating on it. Both of these articles are not entirely serious and should be read as entertainment with a bit of food for thought. Loved it Hot_Bid! Word. Its possible to respect older players while still liking newer ones. I think the other article tried to say that but it got drowned out by a chorus of fast-twitch fans that just read the article wrong. so its the readers fault An article is not a poem or any sort of work of art. If ppl understand the words inside too directly or simply doesnt like whats written, its not a sign of bad writing quality. I dont see why ppl should auto-like and approve the statements in the article. If you love what you've done and think about it "damn, I'm so good and everything I sad is 100% correct" it doesnt mean I should think same. Yeah because Hot_Bid totally said "damn I'm the man 100% yoyo" It's not disrespecting old gamers at all assuming that's what you're mad about and I think that's pretty obvious
no, no surely not. I wanted to say that if ppl say "yo, Hot_Bid (or plexa or riptide for that matter) I have other opinion about what you said" the writer shouldnt go "no, you just read it wrong".
For example I agree with max 10% of what Plexa says in his articles, but I enjoy reading every his post and I'm looking forward to every article made by him. As for Hot_Bid in most of the cases he is not trying to be factual like Plexa or riptide. Its totally fine that he is admitting his CJ fanboysm but again that doesnt mean I must share the same point of view as him and if I share my thoughts about that, I dont see why he must try to convince me that I'm wrong. Actually I'm with him on everything he says, but my idea is that the information in a given article, especially about StarCraft shouldnt be seen by anyone (the writer and the readers) as the ultimate truth.
My opinion as reader is just as valuable and valid as the one of the writer
EDIT: I'm not defending the ppl who are disagreeing about the content of this article, I'm defending the idea of having other opinion about stuff, that is clearly a matter of personal point of view
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People need to stop categorizing NaDa with the rest of the fossils. He has at least one deep starleague run left in him before SC2 hits. His play in Lost Saga MSL vs an in-form Jangbi could've easily been mistaken for Flash playing
I've kind of given up hope on sAviOr though.
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On October 20 2009 00:20 Pyrthas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2009 00:02 Hot_Bid wrote:
I have no idea who this guy is but I know he's better than Boxer. I loved this.
ya lol
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+ Show Spoiler +I fully approve and agree with this article! I also do agree with the other one and there's nothing wrong with liking old and new players! Like how I still love BoxeR to heart and every time he scores a win, I cry out "YEAAAAAAAAA BOXERRRRRRRRR" but at the same time, I'm like that when it comes down to an excellent show of display of games between Bisu, Jaedong and Flash.
Bandwagon is completely acceptable in society and reality. Obviously at some part or another, I'd say everyone have been a bandwagon fan in the past. In normal and most cases, a TRUE FAN starts as a bandwagon and slowly grows out of that stage once you truly like them not because of their skills and nature but because you just do. That's what I think OP and the other OP are trying to state. Both of these articles link up to one another, these are just showing the stepping stones and the results. I may be wrong, but that's how I really believe.
Look, I started out as a SKT1 fan from the straight get go from day 1 just simply because I fell in love with BoxeR (no, I'm not gay, just as a fan-ish way). And look, he was from SKT1! So I instantly joined the bandwagon of what's called SKT1 from that very first day. Am I the same type of guy now who's a SKT1 because of BoxeR, Bisu, and their sheer dominance in 2009? Yes and no. Yes because I loved it when that happened, there's nothing wrong with that but no because after a year and half of following progaming scene, I learned to respect and like not just those main stars and the team but the entire organization as a whole. That doesn't mean I still like all the players, but someone like Hyuk, I truly believe and want to believe he'll become the next top zerg! Is that bandwagon? No, it's personal opinion that grew up from a group of consciences that was formed right here in TL. That's why I love TL so much, only because of TL I follow PL, only because TL exist, I watch SC and learn more. I don't about you guys but TL made me smarter than what I was when I was just a loose cannon watching random VODs whenever I feel bored on youtube.
So for that TL, thank you, my intelligence level increased by able to read, share, and express opinions with others. That may include trollers, that may include myself trolling, and being trolled, nonetheless, it's a great experience to have which I can only find such an experience right here in TL. I will continue to do so and I will find it right here on the very site with all of you.
Btw, 10/10 for the article....
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btw when we ll see a counter- article to the one created by Hot_Bid's ? 
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On October 20 2009 02:33 disciple wrote:
EDIT: I'm not defending the ppl who are disagreeing about the content of this article, I'm defending the idea of having other opinion about stuff, that is clearly a matter of personal point of view
this
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Great article,
Sticking by your favourite player definitely has its price. In my case, that means that  Stork contributed 0 points to my fantasy team so far. Will not trade him away, ever! (Not that I can, anyway - he's the captain)
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On October 20 2009 02:37 siv00 wrote:
People need to stop categorizing NaDa with the rest of the fossils. He has at least one deep starleague run left in him before SC2 hits. His play in Lost Saga MSL vs an in-form Jangbi could've easily been mistaken for Flash playing
I've kind of given up hope on sAviOr though.
Flash played savior once and thought it was Jaedong.
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This article strikes me as something Hot_Bid wrote when he was drunk and pissed off. I personally don't like the frequency this article relies on questions to make points. I think it could have been written without using any of them and it would have come across a lot more seriously instead of as a rant.
The watching professional broodwar exclusively to see high level play and the bandwagon argument are counterintuitive to me. I think if the only reason people watched competitive broodwar was to see the game played at the highest level possible jaedong/flash/bisu/whoever is dominating at the time would be the only progamer with fans.
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I agree with hotbids side of the argument.
I respect Boxer and the oldschool gang for what they did and they pioneered the game and made it what it is. But the achievement of winning an individual league or dominating proleague today is ALOT more impressive.
Boxer and Nal_rA was impressive in the sense of how they went against the norm and practised hard and thought alot about strategic aspects which made them superior to some of the other names at the time.
Jaedong and Flash is impressive in the sense that they are in a highly competetive environment where the best of the best duke it out and they are the top dogs. They practise harder and more efficiently than other players. Also they have a talent and a passion for the game. That is why people are (and should be) more impressed by newschool top players.
But ofcourse the whole "new Bonjwa" discussion is pointless. There will never be another Bonjwa. The game is too competetive now for someone to stand firmly above all others, being untouchable in every way.
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I think the biggest irony of the Backseat Broodwar article was about 'bandwagon' Bisu/Flash/Jaedong fans, who 'only like them because they win'.
Because MJY fans totally weren't bandwagon fans for him specifically because he won so much, right?
99% of fans like to cheer for winners. Boxer was a winner. Nada, oov, Savior, WINNERS. Bisu, Flash, Jaedong, WINNERS. The only difference is the number of years that have passed. Everyone who is a fan of any of these players falls into the same category: People who like to see winners win.
Savior fans don't get any moral highground over Jaedong fans, Nada fans don't get any moral highground over Flash fans. Both of them are 'bandwagon fans' by the definition of the last article, and there's nothing wrong with that.
At the end of the day, what would you rather watch? A Bo5 Jaedong/Flash, or a Bo5 Savior/Nada?
Let's not lie, 95% of us would choose the former, every time.
Anyway, I think most of us here on TL have our favorite 'winner' (our favorite player out of the S or A+ class) and then our favorite 'normal' player (for style or whatnot) too.
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On October 20 2009 00:14 Sunyveil wrote:
BackHo is still the best player on the planet in my book.
He fucking beat Stork and then got a back injury. That's epic!
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Ahahaha, this was both amazing and necessary. It's such a great followup that I don't really have much to add. So, in typical LR style, I will commentate:
HOOOOOOOT BIIIIIIIIID
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The whole argument afterward just confuses me. I thought Hot Bid was saying that things weren't better before, that that's just nostalgia speaking. I think nostalgia is all right, but it's immensely unfair to current players to be forced to have to compete with some idealized nostalgic view of how things were when x/y/z/bonjwa was still playing good. I just thought Hot Bid was saying that it's wrong to be elitist against fans of current players and pretend that the current players are somehow worse or not up to the standards 'set' by the older generations. Maybe I got it wrong, but I liked the argument like that...
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Katowice25012 Posts
I used to root for backho solely because I liked seeing the upset posts when he beat better players.
I don't even know who to cheer for anymore.
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sexy read
is plexa fuming?
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On October 20 2009 01:31 drivec wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2009 00:14 Sunyveil wrote:
BackHo is still the best player on the planet in my book. <3 backho he may not always win but all his games are fun to watch. never plays the same twice it seems.
Disagree. He plays the same style of badly at least every 9/10 games.
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at least those games where u had to control marines for 2 minutes and the strategies that u had to create because of bad macro were so much more fun than today's mech TvZ for example.
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On October 20 2009 03:50 nadafanboy42 wrote:
The whole argument afterward just confuses me. I thought Hot Bid was saying that things weren't better before, that that's just nostalgia speaking. I think nostalgia is all right, but it's immensely unfair to current players to be forced to have to compete with some idealized nostalgic view of how things were when x/y/z/bonjwa was still playing good. I just thought Hot Bid was saying that it's wrong to be elitist against fans of current players and pretend that the current players are somehow worse or not up to the standards 'set' by the older generations. Maybe I got it wrong, but I liked the argument like that...
You are just unable to read their articles correctly. Simple is that.
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EPT
