[M][N] Medic Mafia

On February 20 2018 00:49 rsoultin wrote:


Wait, I got a strongman confused with a soup kill. Disregard that.

A one-shot soup kill would be good to counter claims.

On March 06 2018 00:10 Half the Sky wrote:


That puts Holyflare in for Conversion.

+ Show Spoiler +

On March 06 2018 15:18 n00bKing wrote:

The obvious difference is that Fecalfeast said HF makes fake claims as both Town and Mafia, while you said that HF could just as easily make the claim as Town medic or Mafia. If he makes the claim as Town medic, it's not FAKE.

So what you did is take something Fecalfeast said, twisted it into something he DIDN'T say, and then "agreed" with it.

That's why I forced you into telling us whether or not you agree with what he ACTUALLY said, and not just what you ACTED like he said. You told me you do agree with what he actually said, so I thanked you for your answer.

On March 06 2018 16:27 Tubesock wrote:


Uhm...you called you a medic....

On March 06 2018 16:29 n00bKing wrote:

That's good news, if true. How do you know though? Seems to be lots of trolling in these games, so I can't tell if you're serious. Would still like to hear it from the Narrator or the Assistant, to be sure.

On March 06 2018 16:27 rsoultin wrote:

-squints- You'll have to explain this to me like I'm an idiot if you're serious about this push.

I want to know where you stand on Damdred though.

On March 06 2018 16:33 rsoultin wrote:


Not sure how it's an alignment indicative thought process though? Given how I'd treat it as scum.

How would scum know if your claim were true or not?

On March 06 2018 16:38 Tubesock wrote:


To be fair, i only said it meant nothing in regards to your alignment. Not absolutely nothing as in no information whatsoever.

On March 06 2018 16:45 AMG wrote:
Tubesock, I implied you were mafia by your reaction and said someone you thought was scummy was almost certainly town.. you dont think either of those warrants further investigation or a response?

On March 06 2018 16:53 rsoultin wrote:

Amg called tubesock's scumread town.

On March 07 2018 05:01 n00bKing wrote:
Thanks for those answers, rsoul.

HF's "good chat" post makes me uneasy. Should it not? You mentioned him as townpile after that post, so I'm assuming it didn't bother you. But since the time that he tried to shut down discussion of a D1 mass claim, he didn't really put forth anything else to discuss in its place. He's barely talked about anything but Tubesock. I'm guessing "good chat" means he's satisfied with the direction of the thread/voting at this stage, but that could be good for Town or bad for Town. lol

@Holyflare: No follow-up questions for your vote target? No reactions to anything else that's been said about your vote target in the meantime? No comments on anything else that's going on? (admittedly, not much else is going on...)

@Damdred: Have any strong impressions on HF? (just with regard to his allegiance, not with regard to whether he is/isn't "a medic" for one side or the other)

On March 07 2018 10:09 darthfoley wrote:


Who are you scumreading? or town reading?

On March 07 2018 10:22 Tubesock wrote:
I don't have any scum reads yet. eeewww

It'll probably end up killing me, but I think with Vivax we should wait for him to see if he does his 3 posts to remain "active" which would basically guarantee him being mafia (unless they're great posts) or he gets modkilled.

I won't be voting for rsoul, HF, prplz, moose, or Damdred.

On March 07 2018 11:37 darthfoley wrote:


So you agree on 3/4 my town reads but view me on the scummier side. interesting

On March 07 2018 11:40 Tubesock wrote:
Holyflare, why don't you like prplhz?

On March 07 2018 11:57 AMG wrote:


Lets discuss.

What do you think of the last page out of Tubesock. Do you still think he is mafia?

Would you be interested in lynching prplhz today over Tubesock?

On March 07 2018 15:51 n00bKing wrote:
Meanwhile,

Does anyone agree or disagree with rsoul's assessment that the silence from Vivax and Kelsier (and especially Vivax) is more alignment-indicative than it is for chaoser? Does anyone even know chaoser?

I think it's also worth discussing whether any of those players are strong Town assets *when* they are Town. For example, let's say people generally agree that Vivax is more likely than the average player, to no-show a thread while Scum. If it just so happens that he had done it as Town this time, would we be shooting ourselves in the foot in a major way by mislynching him, and losing the services of Town Vivax, cuz maybe he was going to show up later and be a Scum-wrecking machine? Or is it big upside and only small downside? And then same question regarding our other 2 no-shows.

On March 08 2018 00:45 Vivax wrote:


A loveless post.

This dude and this dude are town atm.
I think this dude is kinda townie right now actually, for once [are you sure you didn't forget to add anything, df]
Maybe this dudess is is town too because I agree with her about that dude.

Lynch these three dudes for the time being. Here's an explanation for one of them: I didn't like that he didn't post both read and reasons in one post [which could be said for AMG].

Peace out.

On March 08 2018 04:39 darthfoley wrote:


I've already commented on this before HF @ others. At this point i'm pretty sure AMG had only scumread Tubesock and was pretty clear about his reasoning at the time.

The rest of his filter is basically bland nothingness about an SK for no reason. Town!Prplhz is very low activity but there's usually some sort of edgy unique reads. In this game there's basically nothing except one factually inaccurate post about AMG. It's like the edgyness... without the facts.

On March 08 2018 06:31 darthfoley wrote:


Ironic that half of your accusation of me is that I don't explain anything, considering you've explained like 2 reads in this entire game... and one of them (scum reading Tubesock for believing your medic claim) was proven to be pretty much NAI.

I also think your play this game seems kind of disheartened.

On March 08 2018 07:25 MoosyDoosy wrote:
holyflare, do you think darthfoley has more of a chance to flip red than tubesock?

On March 08 2018 08:12 Vivax wrote:


What happened to your statement that df is n1 kill though

On March 08 2018 09:20 MoosyDoosy wrote:

meh. Then what's your scum team?

Also I don't know if you were around or not but you never actually answered this question:


When the vote went down did you think Tube was bad town like AMG or did you still think he was scum?

On March 08 2018 10:06 Vivax wrote:


Do you know about the experiment where 2 dudes told another dude that three lines of same length were different and most of the subjects responded wrongly as a result.

On March 08 2018 17:29 rsoultin wrote:
DF's read progression on me:

+ Show Spoiler +

I don't see this as 'he just called rsoul town several times and asked irrelevant questions' (the fourth quote was my response to his question to contextualize it).

That to me reads like noticing something odd while catching up, a very light maybe townread once caught up, then that townread solidifies after my answering his question and responding to moosy about my reads. Also, the second-to-last quote indicates he's thinking about whether what I was scumreading him for makes sense from a town perspective, which I think is a normal reaction to being scumread by someone (i.e. being more interested in their alignment). Followed by an updated town list.

There is nothing about that read progression that strikes me as unnatural and I'm not sure why HF is reading it differently.

On March 08 2018 19:09 AMG wrote:


Heal and see will only work here if hes town.. you know that right?

Heal and see is a free kill for mafia because they're chucking their medic on here if hes town.

So you best be trying to convince the town medics to join you if he is in fact scum, because that's the only way you're killing him tonight is with at least one town medic being convinced.

On March 08 2018 20:29 AMG wrote:


He went after n00bking who voted for an AFK slot.

On March 06 2018 20:18 prplhz wrote:
This whole Tubesock push seems like something I'd like, but be wrong about. I'm interested in seeing where it goes though.

AMG seems to be making excuses for scumreading people.

Regarding to "not alluding to why they are mafia" I think this post alludes pretty obviously



Not sure what this is referring to. I feel like AMG has been pretty open so far.

On March 08 2018 20:53 rsoultin wrote:

Also, thanks for marking the null line for me

Pft I have to go. But yeah, I want to try to understand your amg read.

On March 09 2018 00:41 rsoultin wrote:


First, I did already say df had the same BAD reason.

Second, I take more issue with AMGs add-on that DF did NOT push.

Third, of course it's weak. If someone adds on to what you perceive to be a town wagon for something like 'he didn't care to talk to me about our different reads', if you think that person is scum it would absolutely

BE AN EXCUSE INVENTED TO JOIN AN EXISTING WAGON.

It's not stating he literally made an excuse like an apology. That's retarded to even think.

You can't invent a fact from a perception, and there's nothing wrong with that perception besides. Why can't a town prp think amg could be scum inventing an excuse to join a wagon?

On March 09 2018 03:59 AMG wrote:
He keeps posting giant piles of words that I haven't had enough coffee to read. It's 5am here.

On March 09 2018 04:21 darthfoley wrote:
Lol townmedic!HF ensuring he kills another townmedic N1 would surely be superb.

Mafia will probably shoot HF (if he's actually town and/or townmedic) and medic me, potentially killing 2/3 town medics in one night. Really really stellar idea.

On March 09 2018 08:16 rsoultin wrote:
But then I also just have a hard time picturing either Viva or HF as scum.

Hey, HF...is DF still your top scumread? Because you effectively prevented his NK if scum believed you...not that I think he was high on the list unless as a possible medic dodge anyway, assuming he's town.

On March 09 2018 17:37 rsoultin wrote:


I'd be more on board with this if we didn't have 3 town medics, which makes ccing impossible without a mass claim.

Do you fundamentally disagree that shooting into claimed medics narrows down the fake claim (assuming a scum fake claim)?

And if no fake claims, how does info from the 'night kills' when we get two more free vig shots and one save without a scum roleblocker (assuming shots on 3 medics 3 nights in a row) possibly outweigh removing 3 names from lynch consideration?

We'd be looking for two scum in seven people rather than two in ten. I like those odds. Especially if even one of those medics is lynchbait. Like, if we can clear some lynch bait, and they're not in my top townreads (assuming my top townreads are correct) this game is practically solved.

I really don't see how NK info outweighs this. Sometimes I find NK info helps, but usually I find it WIFOMy anyway.

Three confirmed town vs. NK guesswork.

Yeah I really, really think the mass claim is the best move for town here.

On March 09 2018 19:58 rsoultin wrote:


Confirmed town is the point. Less wiggle room for mafia is the point. At least three more nights if the game even lasts that long of being able to use our power roles is the point.

What nk information are you even expecting to get that is better served by not mass claiming?

On March 09 2018 20:00 rsoultin wrote:

I think you haven't given me a single reason that makes sense for you to have changed your mind beyond receiving your role pm.

On March 09 2018 20:40 rsoultin wrote:


This is exactly a Day 2 mass claim.

This game never lasts past Day 5.

10 today.
7 day 3.
With no rb, 4 day 4 unless we have medics hold their saves to get a day 5 3-man lylo.

On March 10 2018 02:04 Fecalfeast wrote:
Medic i healed prp obv

On March 10 2018 03:58 darthfoley wrote:


Because you've continued with this line of thought about NK info being more important than confirmed town, please explain what NK info you got from AMG being shot.

Thanks!

On March 10 2018 04:09 Holyflare wrote:


That mafia is full of bad/afk players or top town players that can't nk themselves or other top town players in fear of narrowing it down. Now that vivax is medic that makes rsoul (since she's trying to get me lynched but also probably not because she wants mass claims) more likely to be mafia along with noobking (who has not played with us).

So basically this claim nonsense was a waste of time.

If df really is medic then I have no idea why he didn't push noobking who effectively tmid df as town.

On March 10 2018 04:03 rsoultin wrote:
I'll vote ksc if and only if we talk about other scumreads, including hf.

I can see that I probably won't get that lynch today. And maybe he really does somehow believe that seeing if DF was nkd night two outweighed the benefits of 3 confirmed town.

But that seems awfully shortsighted for the hf I know, when if df is fake-claiming we will know much sooner that someone is with a mass claim.

He gave no good reason against a mass claim, only one that is selfish if he's town. And it diverted hard from his pre-game, pre-role pm perception of how this game should be played.

I need people to actually read, think, and tell me why I'm wrong.

I think ksc is likely to be scum, and also feel that slam looks okay to the extent that I can read him. So I'm happy with a ksc lynch today.

But I also think that an auto lynch promotes less discussion. So you get my vote by engaging me or I'll annoy everyone by posting my gripes with HF over and over until it's impossible to do that anymore.

On March 08 2018 06:05 n00bKing wrote:
Alright HF, you've said that DF's filter is "all just filler posts and no actual want to solve anything" and followed up later by saying "No drive, probably mafia." But we have plenty of players in the game who have shown no drive, or have put in no effort to solve anything, or have been no help. Kelsier and chaoser have been no help. prpl has been no help. I feel like Tubesock has been no help. When we're 46 hours into the game, I think you'd have to categorize Damdred (and his mighty single-page filter) as having been little or no help. If I lump DF into that category, it means that fully half of the other 12 players in the game with me have been no help.

So I don't think DF's lack of drive automatically makes him a good lynch, unless you feel like a Town DF *would* show an actual "want to solve anything" and *would* show "drive." Is that the case? Because again, unless there's reason for you to expect more than this from a Town DF, then I don't see anything that makes this particular mole the one that needs whacking.

His posting style is pretty careless. The filter is filled with him either repeating something he already said, or repeating something someone else already said.

An example of him repeating himself is this post:

He'd already named all 4 of those players as townreads. No need for a new, distinct post that merely says the same thing.

And an example of him repeating another player is this:

That post might as well be a copy & paste of Moosy's "King of Wagons" thing. (By the way, I think "Wagon King" would sound way cooler than "King of Wagons." Calls to mind the Witch King. Good stuff.)

DF also parroted my verbiage almost exactly, when talking about prpl's "wishy washyness."

I'd expect a little more caution and a little more mindfulness than this, from most scum players. If a scum player wasn't going to pay any more attention than this, why bother even making the posts? Just be yet another afk dude instead.

On March 11 2018 05:02 Alakaslam wrote:

KSC or me?

On March 11 2018 05:13 n00bKing wrote:

If getting people to mass claim is a point in her favor, then are you saying that yes, we should count your resistance as a strike against you? Koshi told everyone to "do the math" and see that the mass claim is a net positive. Should we think that failing to have done the math is randomly more forgivable for HF than for others?

I see a few people have commented on this plan of action. Anyone else have thoughts on it?

On March 11 2018 05:23 n00bKing wrote:

The bolded is a false dichotomy and you should know better. "Try to make you today's lynch" and "decide there's no case against you" are not the only options of a town rsoul. She can vote against Kelsier while discussing whether she thinks you'd be where to look next should Kelsier flip town just like I've voted against Kelsier while discussing whether I think Moosy should be the next kill should Kelsier flip town.

As for hf...I'm just not sure. Part of me wants very much to string him up just because I'd hate myself if he played this obviously scumsided as scum and still we lost to him. I do think he could think that seeing whether or not df is the N2 nk would be better for helping HIM solve the game than a mass claim

On March 11 2018 19:41 rsoultin wrote:


If you're town I'd appreciate you not posting inaccuracies. Koshi has reads. If he didn't I wouldn't be asking him for clarification, nor would I be saying I'd rather not vig shot him today.

I'm not making a case. I'm trying to determine who is the scum out of the remaining VT claims, thank you much. You should let me do that instead of interfering.

On March 11 2018 19:46 rsoultin wrote:


How do 3 medics die exactly?

On March 11 2018 20:10 n00bKing wrote:

Nice try, but if you were Town, your fake claim accomplished nothing at all on Night 1. It may have accomplished something later...if you hadn't suddenly told everyone it was fake. But it did nothing on Night 1. It doesn't make any difference who the mafia targeted with either of those roles. The course of action I laid out made both of the mafia roles irrelevant, remember? Vivax suggested having DF heal a secret target of his choosing, while the other 2 medics picked a target to kill. THEN the mafia roles would matter. But since I shut his idea down and we all targeted prpl, the mafia roles were literally helpless. The fake medic claim could only have helped later.

Yes, if you say you're a medic that healed DF then you would need to lead a push on him under false pretenses. So you don't say that. This is why what you *would* say is that you actually healed prpl too. You say that if you told us that, people will ask why you weren't still pushing DF...how does that change any by you saying you weren't really a medic? The medic claim being fake doesn't explain why you would stop pushing DF. Being a real medic or fake medic shouldn't affect your read on him at all. So no, this is not a legitimate reason to start off Day 2 by saying the fake was claim, if you were town. There are only scum motivations to do it.

On March 11 2018 20:32 n00bKing wrote:

There's no way for you to know whether "they think you're also a town medic" in that scenario. But that doesn't even matter. There's nothing stopping them from just killing DF if that's what they want to do. "That's their only option?" No it's not. If DF is a true town medic, then even if they believe you are one too, but aren't sure whether you're telling the truth about healing him, they can just RB you and kill him anyway. There's no way for your fake claim to keep them from killing any player they want (including the revealed medic), and there was no way for their roles to keep US from killing whoever WE want.

On March 11 2018 20:45 rsoultin wrote:
HF, what happened to your points on me? You were arguing with noob that they were still valid (and I'm not going to bother addressing that again), so doesn't that mean you still believe them?

On March 11 2018 21:07 n00bKing wrote:

Sometimes terminology matters, sometimes it doesn't. I've definitely seen scum before that would speak in "absolutes" that really weren't, and notice it as a pattern of those players' scum games. Holyflare isn't one of those players, so I don't know for sure. But it's at least something that town *ideally* would not do. And saying that scum could not have killed a town DF is as objectively false as when he tried to tell me that I moved off of Tubesock while he was the leading wagon. It's just not true, and it looks like "lazy scum" to me. (An investigative town player can at least read a damn vote count. Lazy scum may not bother.) Then he talks about Vivax being the first medic claim and me being the last, like as if there's anything remotely alignment-indicative about it. He's smarter than that, right? So why is it still getting posted? Looks like lazy scum to me. Where are his salient posts about why Koshi is scum, instead of just saying "he replaced in and posted mechanics. Cool. He's mafia." I'll say this much, though: If HF is scum, then you'll definitely be right that "this argument isn't going anywhere."

On March 11 2018 22:20 Koshi wrote:

1) I forgot why I initially scumread him. I don't scumread him anymore because he put effort in. Especially right before the lynch he made so many posts it was impossible he was mafia with Kelsier because the game would end. But then I realized the guy might just be town and is mafia ml of choice within the docs. It makes a lot of sense if Noobking is town mafia is trying to kill him because we can't shoot next night anymore. There were 4 people contemplating to change from safe bet Kelsier to Noobking before Kelsier even posted.

Also Noobking is townreading me. Might be TMI. Might be brilliant.

2) Just answered. I don't know the guy but making so many free flowing posts look difficult as mafia.

3) If mafia didn't know HF wasn't medic. This means that while people townread HF (I assume) nobody else voted for DF. If I was mafia and HF was town I would always use my mafia medic on DF. Always. Except when DF is mafia ofcourse. Then I would roleblock HF.
The fact DF didn't die also points towards him being an actual medic. Because that is 1 medic that would for sure wouldn't follow HF and medic DF. So all in all it makes sense the guy is medic.


I haven't read a single post from before I joined the game except for in the few filters I opened. So I don't know that what I think is correct.

On March 12 2018 05:21 n00bKing wrote:

And we do better than that by just following the original plan, huh? But you'd rather do something that improves the mafia's odds of winning the game. I WONDER WHY THAT MIGHT BE.

On March 12 2018 05:26 Holyflare wrote:
You can even do this so you can stop being shit.

Vivax heals Holyflare.
Noobking heals slam.
Df heals moosy.
Ff heals koshi.

That way if mafia want to eliminate a vt by stacking they eliminate one of your question marks and save your town reads. Are you saying that's bad for tonight? Are you saying you'd rather chance a shot on a random guy instead of forcing mafia to play their hand?

On March 12 2018 05:27 Vivax wrote:


I think we'd both be dead if we followed that.

On March 12 2018 05:30 n00bKing wrote:

Because his plan doesn't rely on mafia cooperation like yours does. lol In your plan, what keeps the mafia from simply killing someone they didn't think they could get mislynched anyway, and not using the mafia medic? you've forfeited the vig shot, when following the original plan gave us 4 chances to find the VT scum. How is the original plan not better than yours?

On March 12 2018 05:38 darthfoley wrote:


But you're effectively giving mafia two kills without any chance of killing a mafia. Why would we do that?

On March 12 2018 05:39 darthfoley wrote:
Like idgaf about "information." I want to find and kill mafia. And allowing the mafia to have a NK on one of the medics, plus choosing a VT of their choosing is not giving us any chance of killing a mafia

On March 12 2018 05:40 n00bKing wrote:

And what is "most perfect" supposed to mean?

On March 12 2018 05:42 darthfoley wrote:


Dw mate, you think Koshi is mafia, and FF/Vivax are town medics who are gonna kill scum!Koshi. Doesn't matter when Noobking does or does not do!

Y so serious?

On March 12 2018 05:46 n00bKing wrote:

EVERYTHING I'm doing is to try and generate that consensus, including shouting down each of your asinine "let's help the mafia, guys!" suggestions. Didn't I just ask Vivax about how anything you're doing could be perceived as helpful? That's so I can try to get him to join me in killing you. I'm coordinating with Fecalfeast all I can at the moment, he's NOT HERE. DF asked who I wanted to die, I told him. What more could I be doing to coordinate the medics?

You talk about how the current path could result in 3 deaths, 2 sure to be town. I'm not advocating the current path though, am I? I've already agreed that splitting the kills is bad. And YOUR first suggestion for how to handle the night phase would likely also have ended in 3 deaths, ALL of them town. NO ONE has had an idea worse than yours.

On March 12 2018 05:49 n00bKing wrote:

Long as you admit it doesn't mean "most town-favored." Lots of setups are more town-favored than a full vanilla game. Like THIS one. ESPECIALLY if we follow the plan from the mass claim. So stop trying to turn THIS game into a full vanilla game, instead of one that favors the town. I'm NOT stupid.

On March 12 2018 05:53 n00bKing wrote:

Pointing out the FACT that you are actively trying to reduce the town's win % is NOT semantics.

On March 12 2018 06:09 n00bKing wrote:

Of course I'm arguing with my mafia read. I'm trying to keep anyone else from listening to you, and I'm trying to COORDINATE the medics into KILLING YOU. Defeating your arguments is how that process goes. Have you played this game before?

Not once did I call you mafia for pushing this mafia strategy? I've called you mafia for it NON-STOP. What are you even talking about?

Such a load of bs. I'm NOT fine jumping on it, but I've consistently maintained that splitting the kills is not optimal and that the medics should coordinate. I've said that every step of the way. If Slam is the best I could get, that's still better than splitting the kills. We can afford to be wrong, thanks to the leniency gained from the mass claim YOU opposed, and the resulting plan that YOU oppose. It wasn't YOUR idea to kill slam, DF proposed it long before you ever did. Why can you not even make a single post without saying something that is verifiably false?

On March 12 2018 06:26 n00bKing wrote:

lol, DF has been talking about killing slam since the phase STARTED. His FIRST post in N2 says he's fine vig'ing Slam tonight.

On March 12 2018 07:04 rsoultin wrote:
We can just yolo onto who we think is scum anyway and say fuck the risk, but not if vivax is going to be obstinate.

If it were just me I'd play it safe because I don't know who the scum is. Some of the others of you seem more convinced. I think I'd still prefer HF, and I know Vivax has dug in his heels against an HF shot.

I'd say that vivax forcing a split shot is at best anti-town, and at worst a deliberate attempt to cause confusion and get town to spread out over multiple targets. In terms of yolo shots, I might actually prefer a shot on him if he refuses to set aside his stubborness. Definitely would regardless if not for the fact that it would be even more damaging to wrongly shot a town medic than a vt.

On March 12 2018 07:10 rsoultin wrote:


-shrugs- I'm sorry if I'm wrong, especially considering I'm having the worst time this game finding who the scum is in the VTs and even the ones that I feel are town are for reasons that are laughably weak even to me.

That's why I said that I would just play it safe and vig koshi even if I really don't expect him to flip scum. I know my limits.

But it doesn't change the fact that, gun to my head, I think you're the most likely non-claim to flip scum here.

On March 12 2018 07:15 darthfoley wrote:


why? and what do you make of rsoultin?

On March 12 2018 07:45 Fecalfeast wrote:
Or I got played by hf

On March 12 2018 08:09 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I think the Koshi lynch actually confirms Vivax is scum but not because of his reads because I have my doubts he even read properly

On March 12 2018 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Alright I'm going to go get food and take a break. I want all of ya'll to know that it was me who sniffed out the bullshit in the fast one Vivax tried to pull though.