EPTNewbies do funny things ^^
Newbie Student Mafia VIII
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Newbies do funny things ^^ | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Seeing as I'm on a five game losing streak and managed to sabotage town all by myself last game. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On April 18 2015 07:58 The Shining wrote: But two of those losses weren't your fault, they were games that I lost for you.....WTB Coach, too. My only TL win is as scum. Hahaha. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On April 18 2015 09:48 LightningStrike wrote: Um, I'm no longer confident that you know Damdred /in also Damdred doesn't need coaching  | ||
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On April 18 2015 10:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote: If this game still doesn't look like it will start soon, and another normal game goes up, I'll sign up for that one instead, I think. So you can probably have my spot, at least.I'll probably end up being a replacement but w/e. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On April 18 2015 10:36 Blazinghand wrote: Looks like I'm playing this game, then 2 slots left! sign up while you can! | ||
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On April 19 2015 08:42 LeiNadk wrote: Online mafia relies more heavily on detailed analysis. Because everything that people say is preserved, you can go back and check exactly what people said, and when they said it. This can be used to figure out who is mafia and who is not.So a friend of my told me about online mafia, but how do you find mafia without being able see their facial expression and other indication of lying? I'm hoping to explain the basics of mafia once the game starts. I would explain it now, but I want town credit for it And of course, this being a newbie game, you can ask your coach for advice. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
##vote Trfel | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On April 19 2015 09:51 LeiNadk wrote: It doesn't appear to be necessary?Hey, I'm registered through Facebook. Should I just make an account? Or is that unnecessary? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Hello, all. Hopefully this will be a fun game. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On April 19 2015 10:10 ObiWanShinobi wrote: You can always replace out, prplhz would take over for you I kind of forgot I joined this game. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On April 19 2015 10:34 LightningStrike wrote: I object. We need to lynch the more scum as well, and then find even more scum, and then lynch even more scum. Then we are okay to stop lynching scum.Sorry I was watching Team Liquid's LoL team get 3rd place in the North American LCS. Okay so find scum, lynch scum ,and find more scum after that any objections to my plan? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On April 19 2015 10:40 LightningStrike wrote: Your plan wasn't complete enough. You suggested lynching one scum and finding two. I suggested finding three and lynching all three of them.You objected yet your plan is similar? (Facepalms) | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On April 19 2015 10:42 Damdred wrote: But I got the first post, so I'm the only confirmed town here?I don't have to bleed green ls because I am the town no proof needed. Now ls your plan was missing the second and third scum lynches which shows you want to bus your mates | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
 + Show Spoiler + In case you are wondering, no, the argument holds no weight whatsoever | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Welcome to Newbie Student Mafia VIII! Table of Contents 1. Introduction 2. About Myself 2. Trfel's Guide to Mafia 3. Concluding Thoughts Introduction Hello. I am Trfel, nice to meet you. I'm glad that you have decided to participate in Newbie Student Mafia VIII! This game should be very fun, and a learning experience for all of you. I would hope to learn, but it is difficult for one to learn when surrounded by inferior beings. Hopefully after several years of training, a few of you may be worthy to play at my level. Anyway, the game should still be fun enough, assuming that you guys keep up your end of the bargain. About Myself Besides having a world famous ego, I have several unique (and several less unique) characteristics. I'm possibly the youngest player currently on TL Mafia. I first found TeamLiquid for its Starcraft 2 forums (I didn't play Broodwar, that was before my time). I am a trumpet player, and have been playing trumpet for about ten years. That's probably my only notable characteristic (besides my dazzling intellect, stunning looks, and impeccable mafia play, of course). Anyway, this will be my eleventh game of mafia. My first game of mafia began on November 24, 2014. My play has changed quite a bit since then (mostly gotten worse, I guess the poor player quality on this site brought it down). Trfel's Mafia History 1. Student Mafia IV: Town Tracker killed Night 1, town victory 2. TL Mafia LXIX: Carol of the Bells: Town Santa (alignment cop) killed Night 2, town victory 3. Newbie Mafia LX: Vanilla Town killed Night 1, town defeat 4. Student Mafia V: Mafia Goon lynched Day 2, mafia victory 5. Linux Mini Mafia: Town Doctor victorious Night 1, town victory 6. Newbie Mafia LXI: Vanilla Town endgamed Day 4, town defeat 7. Mini Mafia Down Under 2: Town Vigilante endgamed Day 4, town defeat 8. TL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy: Town Veteran endgamed Day 7, town defeat 9. Aperture Mafia 4: Third Party Dungeon Master eliminated Night 3 10. Newbie Student Mafia VII: Town Vanilla endgamed Day 3, town defeat There are a few particularly notable games here. By my second game (Carol of the Bells), I had improved significantly, and caught a mafia player with a solid case. The results of my case basically left the entire mafia team revealed by the end of Day 2. Note that this game switched the colors of the town power roles and mafia, I used blue in the above list for appearance and ease of reading. Linux Mafia was a special game. Town lynched scum on Day 1, and a second scum was modkilled for failing to vote. The final scum conceded in Night 1, causing town to win with only one dead town (due to a modkill). Damdred was the clear hero of this game. Aperture Mafia 4 was a heavily themed game. Very interesting to play in, not so relevant for this game. I replaced into Newbie Student Mafia VII. My only experience replacing into a game. I learned that it is extremely difficult. Anyway, several trends are clear. Of note is that in my first five games, my record was 4-1 (3-1 as town, 1-0 as scum). Of my last five games, my record is 0-5 (0-4 as town, 0-1 as third party). So I'd really like to turn things around here with a win. Second, I've only been scum once. And my play was miserably poor. Rsoultin caught me in my first handful of posts, and I narrowly avoided being lynched Day 1. While I was lynched Day 2, ultimately due to a cop check, I highly doubt I could have avoided being lynched anyway. It's quite possible that my scum play is the worst of everyone on this site. Third, I've played half of my games as a town power role. While I am not too familiar with mafia rules and role mechanics, I am used to being a power role. Thus, I believe it's quite hard to bluehunt me, since I feel perfectly comfortable as power role and vanilla town (in fact, I might even feel more comfortable as a power role). Anyway, my play quality has been reduced as of late. Since Newbie Mafia LXI, my play level dropped significantly. I played terribly in Mini Mafia Down Under 2 (really about as bad as one can play a game of mafia...), and couldn't properly keep up with the thread in Guardians of the Galaxy and Aperture 4. After those games, I took a brief break, and I think I'm playing closer to my standard. I try to play an analysis-based, logical game. However, I'm finding this to be difficult, and I'm not very good at mafia at all. Each game I do some things right, and other things horribly wrong. But I enjoy the things I do right, and try my best to learn from my mistakes and move on. In all of my defeats (and most of my victories), I can instantly point you to where I went wrong, and what actions I took as a result of that game to correct the error. I've messed up a ton, and learned a ton. I'll keep doing my best, and still wait for that perfect game. I haven't been right on a key read in a very long time, so I have a feeling that it is time. Trfel's Guide to Mafia I won't pretend to be qualified to post a guide on how to play mafia. I'm not. Not even close. But here I am anyway. I write this because I feel that most of the current TL Mafia guides are somewhat outdated (the information in them is obviously brilliant, but there are new questions that have arisen given the newer, higher posting levels that didn't exist before). Furthermore, I never found a mafia guide that actually showed newbies how to play the game, the guides felt disconnected and either hard to follow or uninformative in this regard. So, this is my attempt. Table of Contents 1. Introduction to Mafia 2. Common Terms and Abbreviations 2. Tips for Playing as Town 3. Tips for Playing as Mafia 4. Brief Guide on Scumhunting Introduction to Mafia Mafia is a game focused on the uninformed majority (town) versus the informed minority (mafia). The game relies around a series of days, each with two phases. The day phase occurs first, in which players vote for a player to be lynched. This player is removed from the game, and their alignment is revealed. The night phase follows the day phase, in which players use their roles as they see fit to benefit their side. At the end of the night phase, actions resolve, and any players who are killed are removed from the game and their alignment is revealed. Town's goal is to eliminate all of the mafia, and mafia's goal is to eliminate all of the town. In practice, this means that mafia needs to ensure that their numbers are equal to that of town (or nothing can stop this from happening), since town can no longer control the votes. I won't go over the rules here. That isn't really the purpose of this post. But it is extremely important that you read every word of the first two posts of this thread. They describe how the game will be played. People normally take mafia games here fairly seriously, and it is important to know the rules. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in the thread or PM the host, people will be more than happy to answer. Common Terms and Abbreviations WIFOM: Wine in front of me. This is a reference to a scene in the movie The Princess Bride. The point is that you cannot outguess an opponent with perfect information, when your own information is limited. NAI: Not alignment indicative. Scum: Another word for mafia. Bus: One mafia attacking one of their mafia partners. Read: An opinion about someone's alignment (hence, townread or scumread). Null: No read (or not alignment indicative). Blue: Another phrase for town power roles, since they are normally colored blue. VT: Vanilla town, the basic town role. EoD: End of Day. EoN: End of Night. Meta: A player's normal tendencies, which can be used to help figure out their alignment Townie/towny (I never learned how to spell this word): either a player with town alignment, or describing an action as being likely to come from town KP: Kill power. One KP kills one person. CC: Counterclaim. Sheep: Follow someone else (like sheep). POE: Process of Elimination. Other role abbreviations: vig (vigilante), doc or medic (doctor), vet (veteran), rb (roleblocker), gf (godfather), pr (power role) Tips for Playing as Town I think that it is easiest to explain town play by starting with mafia play. Town starts out with minimal information (each townie knows that they are town). Mafia has constant KP, and their goal is simply to not die so that they can eventually kill all of town. In a game where no one does anything, mafia will win by killing off town in the night phases. Therefore, the necessity of playing the game is placed on town. Town needs to figure out who is town and who is mafia, while mafia only participates to avoid being lynched. To play effectively as town, you need to do two important things. First, you need to show that you are town. Second, you need to figure out who is town and who is mafia. Showing that you are town works in a variety of ways. One of these ways is effort and activity. It is normally much harder to post as scum, therefore players who post a lot are normally (but not always) town, and players who put in a lot of effort are normally (but not always) town. Another way is through tone. If you are honest and open with your reads and thoughts, it is possible for some players to townread you based on your words alone, regardless of the actual opinions that you share. And finally, the scumhunting that you do is the easiest way to show that you are town (since mafia has no incentive to scumhunt, they only fake doing so to avoid dying). Being honest is crucial at all times. The best rule is to be honest all the time, as a rule. Once you understand the rule and why it is the way it is, then you can break the rule sometimes, when you know that the benefits outweigh the consequences. But in general, being honest is important because it maximizes the amount of correct information that town has to work with, while preventing town from making reads based on false information. If people start scumreading you or pressuring you, the best thing to do is remain calm. Getting upset won't do anything. Discuss the points they are scumreading you for, and explain why you did what you did. Tell the entire truth, and be clear about it. While it's important to discuss with people and make your points heard, it's also important to not spend too much time defending yourself. If you are town, any discussion about you is wasted discussion, energy that could be used to find actual scum. So you can respond to arguments against you if you wish, but once there seems to be no progress in the discussion, it's better to let it drop and continue scumhunting. Scumhunting in the face of pressure is one of the best things you can do. It shows that you aren't afraid of dying, and are truly interested in finding scum. And finally, never give up. You are never dead until the deadline actually arrives. To new and/or inexperienced players, the best advice there is is to post often and share all of your thoughts. You don't need to provide conclusive evidence, because anything helps. Your thoughts, even if small and "unimportant", show where your mind is at (allowing people to follow your thought process throughout the game, which is very important to being townread) and provide things for town to discuss (which is extremely useful). But by posting often and being willing to discuss with people, you can quickly learn to be a more effective player, and get townread. Two things that Palmar (a veteran player on this site) often says are that the most important quality that affects someone's mafia skill is the amount of time they spend playing the game, and that one of the most overlooked abilities to have is for a player to be able to sheep at the right times. I agree with Palmar on both of these points. From my personal experience, I've found that there is no way to spend too much time on a mafia game. There is always more analysis, more rereading to do. That said, a few hours every day is more than enough to be an effective player. And being able to listen to others and follow them when they present accurate, well-explained reads is an extremely important skill. In mafia, being right is extremely difficult. The power of conversation, however is incredible. Different people see different things, and can help find errors in each other's analysis. In this way, the group is much more effective than individuals. Mafia is a team game, and you can't be expected to solve the game on your own. But share your thoughts and be open, no matter how confident you are, and you will still help town to arrive at the best possible lynches. If you are a power role, be smart about it. There are plenty of guides for playing the various power roles, and I don't really care to go into it much now. In short:
Finally, remember that power roles are a supplement to normal scumhunting. Your role is a bonus, but it is not a replacement for normal play. Play exactly the same as you normally would, regardless of your role. In several of my games, I changed my play because of my role, and that is a really bad thing to do because it makes your analysis weaker and less beneficial for town. Tips for Playing as Mafia Well. I actually have no clue how to play mafia. My one advice is to read my mafia filter here, and use it as an example of what not to do. Since I'm town in this game, I don't really want you to know how to play mafia. Good day, I hope you enjoy being lynched. Brief Guide on Scumhunting This is a big topic. I'm not very good at scumhunting, so I'll touch on the basics. I found it easy to determine what is good or bad for town to do. My first instinct was that people who do good things are town, and people who do bad things are mafia. However, the problem is that town often does bad things, and mafia often does good things. The truly important thing for scumhunting is to figure out the mafia motivation for doing something. Ignore what people say and do, and focus on why they do it. Does their explanation and reasoning make sense from a town perspective? Why would mafia do what they are doing? (and no, the explanation of "to appear like town" isn't enough) Once you can prove why someone's actions don't make sense at all from a town perspective, and why these actions show town motivation, then you can believe that they are scum. One example of this is finding players whose reads don't make sense. Town needs to find the scum, so they actually try to get their reads right and think about them. Mafia doesn't need to scumhunt at all, so they don't care as much about their reads. In addition, mafia has the additional motivation of keeping their partners alive, but if their partner is lynched, they don't want to look bad for defending them. Thus, players who have reads that are inconsistent and keep changing without explanation (or with an explanation that makes no sense) are more likely to be mafia. Some less experienced players play like this as town, however, so it can sometimes be difficult to identify if inconsistent reads make someone scum or not. Another example of this is finding differences between words and actions. Town wants to be open and always tell the truth, so their words and actions should line up closely. However, mafia doesn't really care about what they do, as long as it keeps mafia alive. And mafia doesn't really care about what they say, as long as it keeps them above suspicion. Therefore, mafia players often show inconsistency between their words and actions. This is often represented in players showing constant suspicion of someone (their mafia partner) but never actually voting for them or getting other people to push for them. This is beneficial as it prevents them from looking bad if their partner is killed, but also doesn't contribute to getting their partner lynched. Early on in a mafia game, it is hard to get accurate reads. But as the game progresses, you get more and more information to work with. It's sort of like an upside down pyramid. At the start, there is no information to work with, so people discuss about completely random things. However, people will comment on the random discussion and make (extremely weak) reads based on it, and then other people will make reads based on these reads, and so on. Gradually, the reads get stronger and stronger. Once people start to die and their alignments are revealed, and people's votes start coming in, town has a lot of concrete information to work with. Still, it helps to scumhunt at all times, even (and especially) early in the game. Even if your scumhunting doesn't directly help catch scum, it helps to show that you are town, and also helps by providing something for others to talk about and work with. Concluding Thoughts If you follow my advice, town will win. Mafia is a fun game, and it's even more fun to win while you play it. I hope that this post was at least slightly useful to someone, but I realize that it's extremely unlikely that anyone is still reading this. Anyway, this post proves that I am obviously town. I took the effort to type up this huge post, which I certainly wouldn't need to do as mafia. Furthermore, I included a history of my games on TL Mafia, allowing people to check my games and get a better meta read on me, which I wouldn't want if I were mafia. Finally, by providing a guide on playing mafia (while omitting any help for the mafia side), I help town and hurt mafia, which I certainly wouldn't do as mafia. I've also set a standard of play and expected town behaviors that can potentially be held against me later, which I wouldn't do as mafia. Good luck, and happy scumhunting! And for those of you lazy enough to not read this post, in which I have put a considerable amount of effort: | ||
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Trfel
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Anyway, seeing as I've put by far the most effort into this game so far, I think I'll step out for a while. Things to do. See you all later tonight. | ||
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I find Bourneq to be the most suspicious so far. On April 19 2015 11:00 Bourneq wrote: Bourneq asks if anyone wants to ask him for a tone read, because this is something that people asked him to do last game. And he knows that it's a townie thing to do. However, the interesting thing is that he asks if people want him to tone read someone or something. He doesn't seem inclined to do it himself. This suggests that he is more interested in appeasing others and not getting lynched than actually finding scum.Anybody wants to request a tone read from me? Ill give a more educated response than last game. Actually I am going to sleep, its 4 am. Furthermore, he says that he will sleep instead of scumhunting. But why would he leave the first sentence in if he is going to sleep after all? He left it in to gain town credit for being open to doing something towny (making a read). On April 19 2015 11:21 Bourneq wrote: Then, someone in his previous game made a post. And Bourneq acknowledges it and says that he wasn't going to read it. Why does Bourneq feel a need to acknowledge my post? He already said that he's tired and he will be going to bed. His post doesn't help town in any way, but it makes him seem more involved in the game (which is false, since he didn't bother to toneread anyone at all).Well im not tonereading that one. TL;DR I'll be heading out again for a while. Any thoughts? | ||
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Trfel
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It is definitely possible that I could post that and still be mafia. That's up for you to decide. I will clarify, however, that my statements that I'm obviously town for my effort weren't very serious. What do you think about my thoughts on Bourneq? | ||
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The one thing I find of interest is that LightningStrike didn't provide any reads at all at this time. | ||
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On April 19 2015 13:07 scott31337 wrote: He's not playing in this game?Where's my drunk Glowingbear at? | ||
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On April 19 2015 13:57 scott31337 wrote: I'm here, but I'll be going to sleep soon, I think.Anyone around? | ||
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On April 19 2015 14:05 scott31337 wrote: I spent maybe an hour or so (distracted) before the game started, and maybe an hour or so after (you can check the time stamps, and I was distracted by the game somewhat at that point).Trfel - How much of your wall of text did you write before the game? I did read it, BTW, I'm not a TLDR fan unless there is only one paragraph. (A literal wall) Thanks for reading it. I'm glad at least one person read it. Though I note that you didn't say that you enjoyed it, so I'm sad now  | ||
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Trfel
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On April 19 2015 14:29 LeiNadk wrote: I think that this actually makes Bourneq slightly more likely to be town. Town is interested in the thread enough to reload a few more times after they say they will go to sleep. Mafia will more likely not make a post when they don't have to. But it isn't very significant.First of all, I'm watching Bourne not because of Trfel's logic but because of the fact that he said he was going to sleep but stuck around as evident from his comment after Trfel's entrant post. I feel like he is carefully following the game without making it seems like he is. I do like LeiNadk's posting so far. On April 19 2015 14:48 The Shining wrote: I'm sorry, I misinterpreted your first post slightly. Your reads on scott31337 and ObiWanShinobi were clearly jokes, however you bothered to change your read on me to possible scum instead of sure scum like the other two. I felt that this meant that you were actually serious about this read. My fault. I'm really not good at reading for tone and I miss jokes frequently (there's a reason I almost never give tonereads), so I don't know where you would get the contrary opinion.I guess by page 7 I should've expected you guys to be a bit more serious. My bad. Trfel, any time I've played with you as town, you're able to have a light joking presence. Take, for instance, scumming the slot you replaced in right from the start in our last game. I'm surprised you of all people didn't see the lightness in my post. It's a light toneread but I don't see your normal towniness. Won't necessarily scum you right away though since you mentioned the thread was slow. You're at least trying to push conversation, which town needs right now. The validity of your read on Bourne? Like I said, he's a newbie that just got mislynched to lose a game for town. His posts aren't indicative to me, as I could easily see them coming from the perspective of a newbtown whos main thought right now is to avoid being put in that position again. And yes, thank you for your statements on Bourneq. That is the flaw in my argument. I'm surprised that Damdred disagreed with my argument but for different reasons. Bourneq also explained this quite nicely. The Shining gets a slight townread for his explanation of this. However, I'm somewhat surprised that Bourneq jumped on the inactive players like that. I don't think it is important at this time, but I would hope to see him keep his discussion on players in the thread from here on out. On April 19 2015 14:57 The Shining wrote: For reference, I've heard that some people advise not to ask questions like this. Obviously, this is different when dealing with newer players, but LightningStrike is experienced, and he knows to provide reads. If you ask him, of course he'll provide reads. If you don't ask him, maybe he will on his own accord, which would be more interesting.LightningStrike When you get back I want to see you actually do something. All I could gather from your posts is you're worried about getting scumread and you'll answer questions tomorrow. Can I get some preliminary reads from you when you do come back? I'm sure you'll have some thoughts on the posts you read when you wake up. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On April 19 2015 10:30 ObiWanShinobi wrote: This just doesn't feel like phrasing that mafia would use.Implies that he has a townread on Damdred, and that this town read is strong enough that basically everyone knows why Damdred is town.I feel terrible for saying this but I already kind of want to kill scott. It's not a very strong read, of course, once he does more we can get a better read anyway. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On April 19 2015 21:40 LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and saw TheBloodyDwarf complaining on the lack of Europeans in this thread. Also Shining had a question which will now be answered: Okay let's be honest here I usually get scumread for my early reads list by most people but here some thoughts on people: OWS: Null he haven't done much yet but I know when he post more I can give more of a accurate meta read because he haven't posted much. Shinging: Maybe Town you seem to be trying actually but I haven't forgiven you on being scum in our last game together LeiNadk: Just a confused townie most likely he being earnest I feel with him asking questions on how to play kinda reminds me of myself on my first game on TL. Tfrel: Null he can do most of his stuff as both alignments (Hinted at pregame he would do a really large post) Scott: He looked so damn townie when he was scum and he looks townie here to so null. Bourneq: Null he haven't really done much. Also Bourneq I'm here what's your thoughts so far? | ||
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Have fun, I'll post when I can. | ||
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For example, look at my play this game.
What do each of these three things suggest about my alignment? Often, it depends on how I did these things, not just what I did. For example, to use my reads on players to determine my alignment, you should examine my reads themselves and figure out what that says about me. If you're still stuck, I'll put a possible answer in spoiler below. + Show Spoiler [my example] + The first point doesn't suggest anything of its own. Long filter isn't really alignment indicative, especially this early in the game. However, you can see that I have been attempting (only somewhat successfully) to further the discussion in this game, which is slightly towny. My long post isn't alignment indicative. I wrote half of it after knowing my alignment, but I was planning on doing it before, anyway. Perhaps a very good tone reader could read me based on my post, but even that is doubtful. I can't judge my own reads. Obviously I agree with them, but Damdred seems to disagree and says that they make me scummy. This is widely open to interpretation. The Shining commented on my missing one of his jokes, and said that this suggested meant I was a scum lean. This is an example of something that isn't normally important, but can be used to try and make a read. And the end result is up to how much you weigh your answers to all of these different points. Which again, is based on what you feel is important and what isn't. The Shining and Damdred both conclude that I am scummy, to some degree. | ||
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On April 20 2015 00:32 Damdred wrote: Okay, Damdred. Now that LightningStrike has answered, what is your answer?What do you think of truffle ignoring me ls And Bill Murray, could you please provide a reason for your vote? | ||
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On April 20 2015 01:17 Bill Murray wrote: First, because you are wrong and I am town. Voting without explanation is really bad because if you are wrong (people are wrong very often in mafia), you aren't open to discussion. So you're intentionally limiting yourself from information you could have.i dont give reasoning to scum why would that help the town? you would only be able to adapt better. Second, and more importantly, because other people here are town, regardless of my alignment. And everyone needs to be able to figure out your alignment, which can't be done if you don't provide reasons for your votes. Anyway, I need to head out now. | ||
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On April 20 2015 01:28 Bill Murray wrote: So because I'm trying to drive the game forward, I am scum?my reasoning is that 1) he is trying to scumandeer the game a. this could be as town, referred to as spotlighting b. this could be as scum, which i think it is here 2) he ends the RQS early a. this is hypocritical of him given his last post (where he assaults me for stifling information) b. his head is up his own ass regarding this which is a reason he is cancerous and toxic to the town (big posts suck) 3) for having spotlighted, he is already giving excuses a. he said he had to go before b. he actually STUCK AROUND to see if anyone said anything about him before saying he had to go again TL:DR don't be apologetic if you're spotlighting. You realize that someone already said that they liked my early post. If they are town, it already had some benefit. I did need to go, I went to get lunch. Then I came back. I care enough about this game to check up on it between eating lunch and leaving again, and why does that make me scum? I don't see where this conclusion comes from. However, I can easily see this reasoning coming from (misguided) town, especially since you mentioned my tone in one post that makes you less sure of your read on me. On April 20 2015 01:30 Damdred wrote: Damdred, there's a very good reason why I haven't been interacting with you. It's because I'm tunneled on you currently, and have been since basically the start of the game. My tunnels are usually bad and obstructive to town, so I'm trying to clear my mind. I've been heavily analyzing your play and your meta, and I won't scumread you until I'm absolutely sure. I would rather not share my reasons for being suspicious of you at this time, but they do have some validity.... Trfel I've made several posts toward you. One in particular about bou read you did. And you never responded towards that. Also you feel like you are forcing the New players into town reading you by using all of the null helpful stuff. So yea, you aren't playing really town sided atm just Trfel siding to me. As for my guide for newbies and stuff, It's not meant to get myself townread. That was a joke (included partially to be a talking point, for which it has succeeded). I've stated multiple times previously that I started my post before I knew my alignment, and therefore it isn't alignment indicative. On April 20 2015 01:30 Bill Murray wrote: And this is a terrible idea.PS I'm Vanilla Townie and we need a massclaim in all likelihood. If scum don't CC power roles we will likely have around a 60% chance to win On April 20 2015 04:06 Bourneq wrote: I'm known for making excessively long posts. This game, I kind of wanted to make an extremely long post right at the start of the game, just because I felt it would be fun. I believe that I mentioned this to LightningStrike a few days before the game started, but I could be wrong on that.Because this is a different trfel than from the last game I just came from where he was town. And making a huge post like that and trying hard to look like town seems forced and not genuine, like it comes from a scum perspective. It could be motivated from both alignments as I've stated before but I am getting a scummy vibe. I can easily provide quotes from previous games supporting my normal long posts if necessary. Rsoultin and Artanis, in particular, are well aware of my tendency for long posts and over-explaining things. On April 20 2015 04:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I agree, the thread activity isn't very high. I was trying my best to drive things forward, but it seems that people don't really want me to do that. I can push the thread once I start being more townread, until then someone else needs to step up.It just doesn't seem like it's going to be high activity. It's kind of a disheartening start but maybe it's just because it's the weekend. W/e. Damdred, could you please answer this question for me? It would be very helpful towards my read on you. On April 20 2015 01:09 Trfel wrote: Okay, Damdred. Now that LightningStrike has answered, what is your answer? | ||
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On April 20 2015 05:45 Onegu wrote: I'm almost thinking that posting an instant town read (one minute after my post) on the most suspected player in the thread with no other reasons provided is so unexpected that scum wouldn't do it.BOOM Trfel Townread But then again, I might be getting pocketed. I'm leaning towards the former, but any thoughts? | ||
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On April 20 2015 05:50 Onegu wrote: But I didn't share anything that actually drives the thread forward. I shared, in order:ehhh maybe not. but probrobly just read your scum game and you are capable of making huge posts as scum, but I agree with your thoughts.
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On April 20 2015 05:53 Onegu wrote: I see, that makes a lot more sense.Im scum reading Bill Murrey who is trying to lynch you for being active. And being a town leader. I doubt its a bus and your posts are active enough and even though I just went and looked up your only scum game and saw you are capable of posting huge lines of text as scum also I will keep my town read on you. I kind of feel that reading Bill Murray is a bit complex at this time. But first, I think we all need a question answered (and since he probably wouldn't answer me, could someone else please ask this as well?): Bill Murray, why do you think that town would have a 60% chance of winning if both power roles claimed immediately and scum did not counterclaim? And why specifically should the cop claim? | ||
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On April 20 2015 06:06 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Starting once I get back from my concert tonight, I am willing and (somewhat) able to attempt to lead town and actually get some discussion going. I can do so if that is what people would like.Thank god Trfel is taking up the mantle of town leader because I really don't want to do it right now. On April 20 2015 06:08 Onegu wrote: I'm not currently voting for him because I'm not sure. His blue hunting is simply a bad play for town. But, I'd like to give him a chance to explain his statements first.Why arent more people voting Bill Murray currently? I'm also not sure that mafia would want to blue hunt so openly like that. They clearly look terrible for doing so, would the (slim) chance that a blue actually claims be worth the risk? I know that Bill Murray also played most of his games back when setup and power roles were discussed far more than they are now. The Shining is quite likely to be town here. His analysis is spot on, and his activity is also good. On April 20 2015 06:29 The Shining wrote: Yes, this is precisely it (I included the EBWOP). Thanks.Maybe he should answer but it looks to me like he wants you to answer the question you asked LS. What did you make of Trfel ignoring you? | ||
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But it's WIFOM, and unless you can interpret it better than me, not alignment indicative in and of itself. What is more important is how I said it, and the reasoning behind it. On April 20 2015 06:32 Damdred wrote: Of course I've read your posts, Damdred. Several times.I think it's pretty obvious honestly. And if people claim to be super tunneled on me then they had to read my posts yea? I'm assuming that you are suspicious of me because (until recently) I didn't comment on you at all? | ||
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On April 20 2015 06:39 The Shining wrote: Only Onegu was suspicious of Bill Murray at the time that I posted that.Actually. Bolded. When did you become more suspected than the guy whose only posts want a mass claim and bluehunting? Meanwhile, Damdred, Bill Murray, and you (The Shining) were suspicious of me. I still don't think that Bill Murray's supposed bluehunting is that important, at least until I get my question answered and get to look at his meta. | ||
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This is a must read. | ||
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On April 20 2015 06:48 The Shining wrote: At the same time, both Damdred and I already told blues not to claim (me in my huge post, so that doesn't really count, but Damdred as one of the first posts in the game). So people are more likely to see that first, and then be hesitant to claim?It's a risk but it's also one that a scum team would feel more confident taking in a game such as this one, where a new player could rng into a role and get tricked into claiming, as it was an early post, not realizing the mistake it is. | ||
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On April 20 2015 06:52 Bourneq wrote: If there is something that you are missing, I'm pretty sure that everyone else (except for Bill Murray) is missing the exact same thing.I would geniunly like to hear the benfits of mass claiming D1. Thinking about it, I dont understand how it would help us? Scum would know who to kill and could super easily counterclaim so that town looses any potential benefits. Bill is not a newbie so I must be missing something right? Seems like a stupid thing to ask for even if he is scum. | ||
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Happy scumhunting! And Damdred, I do hope that you can regain your enjoyment of this game. I'm guessing that it's my fault that you aren't wanting to play as much any more, and I'm terribly sorry for that. If you tell me what it is that I'm doing, I can do my best to stop it. | ||
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Oh well. It doesn't seem that much has happened since I left. Give me a bit to get settled, and I'll go over everything in detail. | ||
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(specifically to Damdred and ObiWanShinobi, but also to anyone who is here) | ||
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scott31337 + Show Spoiler + Scott31337 has been active and helpful. He has been often answering and asking questions. The number of reads he has provided are fewer, but his reads seem reasonably thought out. I definitely don't want to lynch him today. ObiWanShinobi + Show Spoiler + ObiWanShinobi has been fairly active and discussing things with people. He has been willing to follow others, but also has been original. While he is capable of playing like this as scum, there is no reason to see him as scum here. LightningStrike + Show Spoiler + His activity has been fairly good. Furthermore, he's made some good comments, and I don't see anything that stands out as scummy. Onegu + Show Spoiler + I didn't like his original townread on me, but I did like the way he explained his read over the next few posts. That's enough to make me not want to lynch him today, especially since we can hold him to reasonable activity standards later. The Shining + Show Spoiler + He's been active, leading the thread when present, and making a bunch of good reads. Need I say more? LeiNadk + Show Spoiler + Seems truly inquisitive, and willing to participate. Tone also says town. He could certainly be mafia here, and his activity today does hint at that, but I don't want to lynch him yet. Maybe Lynch Damdred + Show Spoiler + I just don't know about him. Probably not a good lynch for today just because he's Damdred, anyway. If he is town, then we definitely need him alive, and there's an extremely good chance he will force mafia to kill him. TheBloodyDwarf + Show Spoiler + He seems comfortable enough, but minimal reads. Not much to go on. Could Lynch Bourneq + Show Spoiler + So, initially I was happy with Bourneq this game. On April 19 2015 20:47 Bourneq wrote: This post seems very honest and open, in addition to making me laugh. Bourneq seems to be acknowledging his errors last game and adjusting. However, I noticed several suspicious things in his folder that make me hesitant to town read him.I was laughing really bad reading this. I was making a joke in both thoose comments. First joke because of last game when we lost because I did not know what a tone read was. Secondly I updated the page as I was brushing my teeth and see a post as long as my arm. I acctually read the thing and felt like it had been written up the day before so it looks just as scummy as it looks townie to me. Anyway I was just about to go to sleep so I just said TL;DR as a joke and headed for bed. On a completely different note, I am excited too see what dwarf will bring to the table this game. So far I could get behind lynching all the americans but I dont know if that is a valid strategy since they dont necessarily have to be scum to be americans. On April 19 2015 20:47 Bourneq wrote: [referring to my very long post] I acctually read the thing and felt like it had been written up the day before so it looks just as scummy as it looks townie to me. On April 19 2015 22:01 Bourneq wrote: I like trfel so far since the last person who ended up scumreading me this early on for my very first posts ended up being town. On April 20 2015 01:22 Bourneq wrote: I am not scum, give me your reasoning Bill, I'd love to vote trfel. He is trying a bit too hard. On April 20 2015 04:06 Bourneq wrote: What a strange progression in these four posts. Once Bill Murray scumreads me, Bourneq says that he would love to vote for me. He says that my big post is long and trying to make me look good, and that he thinks it is forced. This is interesting, since he already said that this post was mostly written before the game began, and is thus says nothing about my alignment. Furthermore, he played with me last game, when I was town, and I posted four extremely long analysis posts on the earlier portions of the game (I replaced in). How is me making a long post any different than it was last game?Because this is a different trfel than from the last game I just came from where he was town. And making a huge post like that and trying hard to look like town seems forced and not genuine, like it comes from a scum perspective. It could be motivated from both alignments as I've stated before but I am getting a scummy vibe. It's also strange how he suddenly jumped on me when he said that he liked me for scumreading him. It feels that Bourneq is trying to set himself up to vote for me, but then Bill Murray suggests mass claiming, and this starts to draw attention. Bourneq never mentions me again. This progression seems extremely suspicious to me. Besides this, Bourneq hasn't done very much. He's sheeped the thread sentiment several times (agreeing entirely with LightningStrike's list post, but mentioning the three inactive players, note that he didn't mention inactive players last game as town), and a weak read on LightningStrike ("[LightningStrike seems] just as town as anybody else to me so far"). I could definitely lynch Bourneq. Bill Murray + Show Spoiler + This one's kind of obvious. He was blue hunting, and had no good explanation (how could he?). He assumed that if town claimed, and mafia didn't counterclaim, town would have about a 60% chance of winning, but despite this number and asking for claims, he didn't bother to actually read the setup. On April 20 2015 01:32 Bill Murray wrote: I think that this post supports Bill Murray as town slightly, he revises it to have only the cop claim (which makes sense if you think that the setup is cop/doctor). However, he's still looking pretty bad.There is 1 role that should be claiming. Cop. Voting for Onegu instead of me is pretty bad as well. And, he scumread me for doing something (posting again after I said I would leave) while he completely ignored Bourneq doing the same thing. In fact, he was willing to provide his reasoning for voting me to Bourneq but not to me (because apparently I am scum, while Bourneq isn't). This is weird. But I hesitate to lynch him because of the reasons he provided for his scumread on me. On April 20 2015 01:28 Bill Murray wrote: This analysis is flawed, but it does make him seem somewhat better.my reasoning is that 1) he is trying to scumandeer the game a. this could be as town, referred to as spotlighting b. this could be as scum, which i think it is here 2) he ends the RQS early a. this is hypocritical of him given his last post (where he assaults me for stifling information) b. his head is up his own ass regarding this which is a reason he is cancerous and toxic to the town (big posts suck) 3) for having spotlighted, he is already giving excuses a. he said he had to go before b. he actually STUCK AROUND to see if anyone said anything about him before saying he had to go again TL:DR don't be apologetic if you're spotlighting. I need to make a check of his play from last game and analyze his filter more heavily, but I could see myself lynching Bill Murray. Policy Lynch plotspot cakepie Bourneq and Bill Murray are both looking pretty bad here. I could even see them being scum together. | ||
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Anyway, two questions. Bill Murray: What is RQS? (from your post where you explained why you were scumreading me) What happened to your scumread of me? | ||
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But I really want everyone to read my above post, or at least my two scumreads. I'll quote them again here, so you have no excuse for being too lazy to scroll up two posts. Thoughts or comments are much appreciated. If you don't like either of these lynches, who do you want to lynch instead? On April 20 2015 13:00 Trfel wrote: Bourneq + Show Spoiler + So, initially I was happy with Bourneq this game. On April 19 2015 20:47 Bourneq wrote: This post seems very honest and open, in addition to making me laugh. Bourneq seems to be acknowledging his errors last game and adjusting. However, I noticed several suspicious things in his folder that make me hesitant to town read him.I was laughing really bad reading this. I was making a joke in both thoose comments. First joke because of last game when we lost because I did not know what a tone read was. Secondly I updated the page as I was brushing my teeth and see a post as long as my arm. I acctually read the thing and felt like it had been written up the day before so it looks just as scummy as it looks townie to me. Anyway I was just about to go to sleep so I just said TL;DR as a joke and headed for bed. On a completely different note, I am excited too see what dwarf will bring to the table this game. So far I could get behind lynching all the americans but I dont know if that is a valid strategy since they dont necessarily have to be scum to be americans. On April 19 2015 20:47 Bourneq wrote: [referring to my very long post] I acctually read the thing and felt like it had been written up the day before so it looks just as scummy as it looks townie to me. On April 19 2015 22:01 Bourneq wrote: I like trfel so far since the last person who ended up scumreading me this early on for my very first posts ended up being town. On April 20 2015 01:22 Bourneq wrote: I am not scum, give me your reasoning Bill, I'd love to vote trfel. He is trying a bit too hard. On April 20 2015 04:06 Bourneq wrote: What a strange progression in these four posts. Once Bill Murray scumreads me, Bourneq says that he would love to vote for me. He says that my big post is long and trying to make me look good, and that he thinks it is forced. This is interesting, since he already said that this post was mostly written before the game began, and is thus says nothing about my alignment. Furthermore, he played with me last game, when I was town, and I posted four extremely long analysis posts on the earlier portions of the game (I replaced in). How is me making a long post any different than it was last game?Because this is a different trfel than from the last game I just came from where he was town. And making a huge post like that and trying hard to look like town seems forced and not genuine, like it comes from a scum perspective. It could be motivated from both alignments as I've stated before but I am getting a scummy vibe. It's also strange how he suddenly jumped on me when he said that he liked me for scumreading him. It feels that Bourneq is trying to set himself up to vote for me, but then Bill Murray suggests mass claiming, and this starts to draw attention. Bourneq never mentions me again. This progression seems extremely suspicious to me. Besides this, Bourneq hasn't done very much. He's sheeped the thread sentiment several times (agreeing entirely with LightningStrike's list post, but mentioning the three inactive players, note that he didn't mention inactive players last game as town), and a weak read on LightningStrike ("[LightningStrike seems] just as town as anybody else to me so far"). I could definitely lynch Bourneq. Bill Murray + Show Spoiler + This one's kind of obvious. He was blue hunting, and had no good explanation (how could he?). He assumed that if town claimed, and mafia didn't counterclaim, town would have about a 60% chance of winning, but despite this number and asking for claims, he didn't bother to actually read the setup. On April 20 2015 01:32 Bill Murray wrote: I think that this post supports Bill Murray as town slightly, he revises it to have only the cop claim (which makes sense if you think that the setup is cop/doctor). However, he's still looking pretty bad.There is 1 role that should be claiming. Cop. Voting for Onegu instead of me is pretty bad as well. And, he scumread me for doing something (posting again after I said I would leave) while he completely ignored Bourneq doing the same thing. In fact, he was willing to provide his reasoning for voting me to Bourneq but not to me (because apparently I am scum, while Bourneq isn't). This is weird. But I hesitate to lynch him because of the reasons he provided for his scumread on me. On April 20 2015 01:28 Bill Murray wrote: This analysis is flawed, but it does make him seem somewhat better.my reasoning is that 1) he is trying to scumandeer the game a. this could be as town, referred to as spotlighting b. this could be as scum, which i think it is here 2) he ends the RQS early a. this is hypocritical of him given his last post (where he assaults me for stifling information) b. his head is up his own ass regarding this which is a reason he is cancerous and toxic to the town (big posts suck) 3) for having spotlighted, he is already giving excuses a. he said he had to go before b. he actually STUCK AROUND to see if anyone said anything about him before saying he had to go again TL:DR don't be apologetic if you're spotlighting. I need to make a check of his play from last game and analyze his filter more heavily, but I could see myself lynching Bill Murray. | ||
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But I did notice that he called Foolishness a great player for town, while mentioning that he makes really long posts. And earlier, Bill Murray scumread me because I made a long post, and long posts are bad for town. Hm. Anyway, to answer The Shining and Damdred (various questions): When I said I was "happy" with Bourneq, I meant that I had no desire to lynch him. In that very post, you can see that I listed players in terms of "don't lynch" or "could lynch", not town or scum, because I prefer to go lynch by lynch and not town versus scum when I have the time to do so. When I got back from my concert, I read the filter of everyone in the game (except myself, of course), and then I noticed Bourneq's inconsistency in his read on me. I asked about Bourneq not because I wanted to probe out the thread sentiment, but because I wanted to get people's thoughts on Bourneq before I posted, thus getting more information. I had already written out my portion on Bourneq at that time, but I waited to post until I finished going over and typing about every player. I didn't wait for more people to share thoughts about Bourneq because I needed to get something out there to get the thread moving, and I'm confident in the read, so I want people to see it. I wasn't trying to make an unflipped association read between Bourneq and Bill Murray, I'm sorry that it came off that way (the association between the two is not very significant, I think). I was meaning to convey confidence in my reads on both of them. As to my seeming non-stance between them? I wanted to leave it open to people's responses more. At the time, I slightly preferred lynching Bourneq. Now, I prefer lynching Bourneq to Bill Murray by quite a bit. I'm sorry that the way I went about scumreading Bourneq was a bit round-about. But if you just look at the arguments I gave, and look at Bourneq's response, it's extremely likely that Bourneq is mafia here. After the post that Bourneq mentioned, supposedly trying to draw out Bill Murray, Bill Murray made another post where he explained his read, and then later (upon request) Bourneq made yet another post explaining why my play was scummy, including saying that he was getting a scummy vibe from me. Bourneq's explanation means that he really wouldn't have to say this here. I really want to lynch Bourneq here, but I'll take another look at the posts since I went to sleep first. | ||
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Lynching inactives is just not good. Especially when we actually have some things to go on. Plotspot will need to come back by the end of the day to vote. Just wait for him, don't lynch him. Be suspicious of him? Yes. Wagon him before he does anything? Of course not. And I don't want to lynch cakepie either. He reloaded the thread while reading, to see how things were going? I do that basically every game. He took a really long time to get started in the game? Somewhat suspicious, but not enough to lynch him over. He spent some ridiculous amount of time supposedly reading the thread? Still not enough to lynch him for. The most important thing, by far, is what he comes up with when he actually enters the thread. I like his analysis. He says that he will avoid repeating things others have said as much as possible, and he offers a different perspective on some parts of the thread. He clearly shows critical thinking about the game. His perspective on LightningStrike and me is definitely new. But, his vote on plotspot is more suspicious, though he does say that he doesn't think that Day 1 is very accurate, so I suppose I can live with it for now. I still think that Bourneq's explanation of his play isn't very plausible. This makes me more confident about lynching him, because he gave an explanation which I don't accept. If it was only the first quote about being willing to lynch me, I could accept it. But when he accomplished his goal (Bill Murray giving his reasoning) and after that, still provided more reasons for suspecting me (apparently without believing it or wanting to lynch me), that I don't understand. On April 20 2015 19:59 Bourneq wrote: This post looks more suspicious as well. Why would town think of this 12 minutes after the post and come back to clarify it? Maybe I'm going too far here, but I'm thinking that he saw that The Shining was suspicious of me and then clarified this.Little side note to my last post. Just because I did not want to vote trfel does not mean I've towned him yet. Bourneq is the best lynch here. Lynch scum. ##vote Bourneq | ||
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On April 20 2015 23:53 Damdred wrote: I am not defending cakepie. I am showing why I don't think that he is a good lynch today, compared to Bill Murray, and especially compared to Bourneq.He reloaded the thread and took like 12 hours to actually post anything of any substance and still didn't come to any conclussions and then wasted his vote on a plylnch he never even talked about NOR PUSHED. What analysis the one where he doesn't actually analysis anything or come to any real conclussions doesn't push any scum read or any town agenda and just plynches? You are chainsaw defending people now. Back into the scum pile for you On April 20 2015 17:06 cakepie wrote: Given this post, I think that his vote makes sense. And it's not a wasted vote. It's a policy lynch, which I think is bad, but you shouldn't scumread him for this when you've been advocating the same thing yourself this game.Well, I’m not going to post a huge ordered list or give townreads and help scum prioritize out who to kill off. And it should not be surprising at this stage of D1 to be looking at a lot of null± among moderately active players. I’ve given my strongest read and voiced a couple of my suspicions, and though the latter are a bit more swingy and hard to place for now, with their activity, we’ll have more to work with as we go. Unfortunately, with my fairly limited experience, D1 still feels like a crapshoot, barring some really obvious slip or discrepancy from someone. I think BM fits the bill best here. (see what I did there?) I've talked to some good players about proper town play. The best time to defend people is when you have an alternative lynch which you think is much better. I have presented reasons to lynch Bourneq, and he is quite likely to be scum. This is the most confidence I have in a Day 1 scum lynch in quite some time. | ||
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I think you can also see Bourneq being non-committal and following thread sentiment (until after I posted my case on him), and being inconsistent with a bad explanation for the one solid read that he made. | ||
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On April 21 2015 00:03 Damdred wrote: I am defending him, and I said as much myself.and you are defending him indeed. Such as "He has good analysis" is a defense of my attack "he has no conclussions and not really doint much" Also you really need to look at what a wasted vote with no push is, because what he did is the definition of it. This is yet another instance of you not reading the thread carefully. Believe it or not, I am keeping a list. It's not a wasted vote when many people have been bringing up the idea of policy lynching. It has nearly as much reasoning as when you first voted for cakepie anyway (and there's barely a difference between the two). | ||
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On April 21 2015 00:06 Damdred wrote: SHOW ME HOW HES REACHING ANY CONCLUSSIONS ABOUT THE GAME TRFEL DO IT RIGH TNOW DO IT On April 20 2015 17:06 cakepie wrote: This is his one solid conclusion about the game. But Damdred, you are a good player. And you are well aware that "no conclusions about the game" (even if true) doesn't necessarily make someone scum. Look at TheBloodyDwarf, he has no conclusions about the game. Lots of newbies have no conclusion about the game, and cakepie hasn't been here for very long.OWS, If there’s one thing that really seems out of place to me, it would be BM’s mass claim proposal / “blue hunt” -- quite simply, it doesn’t add up. I’m well aware that he has a bit of a reputation, but the situation still reeks of exceedingly weird. Hypothesize he is scum motivated? I don’t think noob game means people are dumb enough to fall for the straight up blue hunt. Town motivated? I’m pretty sure he doesn’t get any passes for not knowing the setup, or trying for “60% if no counterclaim”. Some kind of test to gauge reactions? Not apparent that is the case either. Occam’s razor would prefer obvious scum here. Onegu mentioned “too scummy to be scum, doesnt work” [as a defense] and my NMM33 experience would tend to agree that usually too obvious scum = scum. As things stand now, if deadline was in a couple of hours and we had to consolidate already, I’d probably vote BM. It’s not a new case by any means, but that’s the strongest read I have. Why does it matter if cakepie has no solid conclusions at this time, when he is showing a clear thought process, and he just started actually playing the game? | ||
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On April 20 2015 23:58 Trfel wrote: From that very same post. What I meant to say was, "I am not defending cakepie for the purpose of defending cakepie". This is clearly implied (if not outright stated) by the last paragraph of the post, quoted above.I've talked to some good players about proper town play. The best time to defend people is when you have an alternative lynch which you think is much better. I have presented reasons to lynch Bourneq, and he is quite likely to be scum. This is the most confidence I have in a Day 1 scum lynch in quite some time. | ||
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I would like you to do so at this time, please. | ||
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On April 21 2015 00:16 Damdred wrote: You are not the lynch for today. And I'm done arguing with you, because it's getting nowhere, as you aren't willing to listen.Go on and call me scum trfel you keep hinting at it, obviously you think i'm scum. Then vote me you are policy lynching bor, for not so good reasons. So whatever. I will discuss with other people one they enter the thread. I would still like an answer to my above question. Thank you. | ||
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On April 21 2015 00:20 Damdred wrote: Please comment on my argument instead of attacking me.You started off this game deciding to target bour and I called your reasoning bad there and I'll keep calling it bad. | ||
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On April 21 2015 00:26 Damdred wrote: What about the part where I said that his earlier posting actually looked a bit good for him? And I still think that it does, just his contradiction and explanation looks really bad. I did not decide to scumread Bourneq from the start of the game, The Shining already pointed out where I said that my first argument was flawed and that it didn't make Bourneq scum at all.I'm not attacking you at all he's null, your argument is just bad. I already commented on your early read which is based off a joke. I don't see a new player being so carefree as scum in his first post and then trying to side up with bm who is another person of high interest. Especially as scum, you are try hard shrug just looks like he's being honest and you are blowing it out of proportion to fit a narrative you decided to build since game start He only sided with Bill Murray after I accused him of sheeping the thread sentiment, and suggested that he could be scum with Bill Murray. | ||
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On April 21 2015 00:45 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Why would you prefer to policy lynch over lynching Bourneq?Why are you guys so allergic to policy lynches? Policy lynches are great. | ||
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On April 21 2015 01:46 Bill Murray wrote: @TRFEL "But I did notice that he called Foolishness a great player for town, while mentioning that he makes really long posts. And earlier, Bill Murray scumread me because I made a long post, and long posts are bad for town. Hm." I said foolishness makes really long posts as Vanilla Town, not merely as town. I said your long post was null, Trfel. Why are you directly misrepresenting me constantly, over and over? It's really annoying. On April 20 2015 01:28 Bill Murray wrote: You were saying?b. his head is up his own ass regarding this which is a reason he is cancerous and toxic to the town (big posts suck) LightningStrike, what do you think of my case on Bourneq? | ||
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On April 21 2015 01:56 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Because I would rather lynch someone who I have more reasons to scumread.Why are you so opposed to lynching inactives? Mathematically, lynching an inactive has a 23.08% chance of hitting scum. I feel that Bourneq and Bill Murray are more suspicious, so lynching them has a much higher chance of hitting scum. | ||
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I'd really like to lynch Bourneq, but it seems that I'm the only one who would. Back to the drawing board, I suppose. | ||
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If town sees a question that they know the answer to, or something that they have a comment on, they will say it to help another player out. If mafia sees a question that they know the answer to, or something that they have a comment on, they will say it to appear towny. There's basically no way to tell which one it is, so it isn't really alignment indicative. You say that it is suspicious that scott31337 reads Bourneq as "meh", but meh has a connotation of disapproval. Scott31337 did actually provide a read on Bourneq's play. I don't think that his wording of "is viewed as scummy" is alignment indicative. While it is somewhat strange, I can see town justifying his point by stating what is generally accepted, instead of presenting it as their own thoughts. It does make sense. Most of your case is interpretations of scott31337's play that aren't explained at all. I don't understand how you draw the conclusions that you draw. For example, he asks cakepie for reads. Why do you assume that he is trying to identify the best night kill, when a far more likely and plausible explanation is that he simply wants more information to use to read cakepie? His comment that you are scum 80% of the time is obviously a joke. This just doesn't convince me that scott31337 is scum here at all. | ||
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This game is extremely inactive. Town isn't managing to do much of anything. There is some suspicion on Bill Murray for bluehunting. Some people want to lynch cakepie for taking a very long time between starting to read the game and posting reads, as well as being non-committal. I want to lynch Bourneq for a terrible read progression, but no one else agrees with me. | ||
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On April 21 2015 03:05 Bill Murray wrote: Bluehunting means finding blues, presumably so you can night kill them.ME, BLUEHUNTING? ARE YOU DUMB? DAFT? If I wanted to bluehunt I would just nightkill them wow. There is suspicion that your statements asking the power roles to claim is bluehunting, because they claim and then you kill them. That is the biggest reason that most people are suspicious of you. | ||
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Did you miss the part where I said that I don't want to lynch you any more? And Damdred has been pushing me the most, and at this point he's probably town. But I said that I don't want to lynch him long before. | ||
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On April 21 2015 03:21 Bill Murray wrote: No, that wasn't town. It just made your request for a mass claim a little less suspicious.Trfel why were you wanting to lynch the 2 people who either voted you or said they wanted to vote you? Especially considering you said me posting wanting the cop to come forth was town. "i think this post supports bill murray as town slightly" were your exact words, sir. | ||
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On April 21 2015 03:36 Bill Murray wrote: My reasons are clearly stated in my filter at the time. I don't know why you are asking.Trfel why were you wanting to lynch the 2 people who were suspicious of you? If you are trying to say that I am scum because of OMGUS, then say that. | ||
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On April 21 2015 03:46 Bill Murray wrote: I'm not waffling on Damdred. I said that I was suspicious of him, but wasn't entirely sure why, and couldn't prove that he was mafia. Over time, I changed that to a grudging town read.Why would I think you would? Because you (i thought it was you) referenced a post about me from a different thread? Did I miss the part where you said you didn't want to lynch me? No, I didn't, but I feel like you're lying. There is a difference between not wanting to lynch me because you don't want to, and not wanting to lynch me because you can't. Damdred hasn't been pushing you the most. He has been arguing with you. Why are you flip flopping on your Damdred read? You had him in black before, very near your list of scum, and said you only had him there "because he's damdred". You can't play the "i'm new here" card and also suck up to people you respect... how do you even know who people are? Which way do you want it? Do you want to be able to know the players or do you want to be considered a new player? Saying you don't want to lynch Damdred why though? Because he is who he is? Just because you are who you are doesn't mean that you didn't roll mafia dude. That's a terrible reason not to vote someone. I don't even think that you believe your own reasoning on that. Leaving good players alive is not that bad of an idea. For example, Holyflare acknowledges that if he isn't dead by Day 3, it's probably a good idea for town to lynch him (assuming no stupid blue claims), as a general rule. If I can't show lots of reasons why Damdred is scum, I'm not going to lynch him on Day 1 when he's been constantly promoting discussion and persistent, despite giving himself an excuse to lower his activity. | ||
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Some people don't learn. I am one of them. On March 19 2015 23:35 LightningStrike wrote: This is a post that LightningStrike made in TL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy. Note that he provided a bunch of town reads, and then a bunch of null reads. No scumreads at all.Town: Exo: He seemed to be his normal self some questions but I waiting for him to case someone at some point in the game after playing with him in Newbie LX. rsoultin: She seems to happy to roll Mafia this game I would think she would be Mad at rolling Mafia again esp with me in the game but she seems to be having fun with her posts so far (She rolled Mafia in Horns of Africa and Titanic) Also she died way to early in JOAT because of mean HTS wanting to get rid of her so she wouldn't figure HTS out in JOAT She also my whisper so listen to her on me.Holyflare: Some decent questions and plays similar to how he did in Horns when I played with him plus answering a meta point to me about Mafia!Rayn is more useless than Town!Rayn but idk what Rayn post would indicate that he's useless tbh :| Vivax: Vivax is Vivax and that means he just crazy but I think he's trying hard this game and more likely Town than Mafia upon the fact he's trying so hard but he's crazy so meh. Trfel: I finding his entrance odd but who the hell claims Mafia Day 1 except for Damdred in Imperial lol..... He got some decent questions and also can't wait for him to case someone even if he case the hosts (For those who didn't check Mini Mafia Down Under 2 he cased the host and it was funny as hell 10/10 would want him to case a host again). Bill Murray: Asking some decent questions and my first time playing with him and seems to engage with his Mafiaread of Eden and noticing some stuff I don't think others did at the time. Eden1892: Had some trolling stuff early on which I kinda expect from him as Town compared to Mafia with some decent questioning regarding me to rsoultin. Also his filter is much bigger than his filter as Mafia from experience playing with him. Superbia: Much more serious already and already down to business which I think makes him more Town than Mafia knowing in Campus was kinda trolling in Day 1 and was useless in Imperial. Breshke: Short filter but some of his questions ande thoughts to be something I would think he would do as Town more so than Mafia esp his little thing on sicklucker. Null: Damdred: Seems to be a his townie self but I remember he looked so townie yet he was Mafia in Titanic so I need another Day of him being alive to make a good read. Artanis: As I said earlier he looked so Townie in Imperial yet he was Mafia but he also had a bad game as Mafia in Student VI so idk I need some more time to figure him out prob by Day 2 since I know he's a player by reputation being one of the best players in TL Mafia. raynpelikoneet: Seems much angrier than normal idk if it's truely alignment indicative about him but HF says he's useless as Mafia compared to Town but his filter seems Palmar centric with some side tracks O_o Palmar: Trolling a good amount I don't think it's alignment indicative for him since he loves to troll as both alignment from my experience with him cept for Metal Mini when he was super serious. Alakaslam: Slam is Slam and I can't really read him and I know he's the true king of WIFOM as either alignemnt so meh. Onegu: Very short filter and not really doing much but I remember him being kinda meh as town compared to Mafia but I need some more posts from him. sicklucker: I can't read him anymore after Linux when he was Mafia and he always bounces off the walls as either alignment and did make some incorrect statements about self meta but he done that as either alignment. I think he becomes obvious Mafia at Day 2/3 area from my experience with him and seeing him playing as Mafia so I waiting for Day 2 to make my read on him. Fecalfeast: He not raging about his role with time and idk if it's alignment indicative for him from my experience with him being town :| Sorry for the long wait for my post I was updating it while checking the thread so I wouldn't be so lost and added in info while making the post! On April 19 2015 21:40 LightningStrike wrote: Compare that to LightningStrike's first post in this game. Notice the similarities?I'm back and saw TheBloodyDwarf complaining on the lack of Europeans in this thread. Also Shining had a question which will now be answered: Okay let's be honest here I usually get scumread for my early reads list by most people but here some thoughts on people: OWS: Null he haven't done much yet but I know when he post more I can give more of a accurate meta read because he haven't posted much. Shinging: Maybe Town you seem to be trying actually but I haven't forgiven you on being scum in our last game together LeiNadk: Just a confused townie most likely he being earnest I feel with him asking questions on how to play kinda reminds me of myself on my first game on TL. Tfrel: Null he can do most of his stuff as both alignments (Hinted at pregame he would do a really large post) Scott: He looked so damn townie when he was scum and he looks townie here to so null. Bourneq: Null he haven't really done much. Also Bourneq I'm here what's your thoughts so far? He actually doesn't provide a scumread for the entire game. Almost all of his filter is asking questions. The vast majority of his reads are in this one post. On April 20 2015 08:09 LightningStrike wrote: LightningStrike didn't do anything to change the thread activity, he isn't pressuring anyone. LightningStrike is actually a good lynch here.Honestly this game si rather inactive and it kinda bad because scum can just hang back and not post :| ##unvote ##vote LightningStrike | ||
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On April 21 2015 03:59 Damdred wrote: I'll check the game. But I would expect him to make a push on scum somewhere before six hours until End of Day.zzzz must of been scum here to. wait he was town. Like I said in guardians that's not how you read ls | ||
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##unvote | ||
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##vote cakepie I don't want to do it. But I can't think of anything else. | ||
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##unvote ##vote Bourneq | ||
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On April 21 2015 05:17 Bourneq wrote: Ugh. I give up.Omg I missvoted, I just realised lmao. That was suppost to be cakepie. ##Unvote ##Vote cakepie Be back in maybe an hour or so, I need to take a break for longer, it seems. | ||
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On April 21 2015 05:19 Damdred wrote: To be honest, it was a process of elimination thing.i'm so freaking confused. Trfel why did you even vote cake when you just defended him I don't want to lynch scot31337 for reasons previously described, he's made some reads and I can't scumread him yet. I'm not lynching you (Damdred) for reasons described earlier, and no one would be willing to anyway. Not lynching ObiWanShinobi for actively trying to solve the game. Not lynching LightningStrike because you guys are right. Not lynching Onegu because of the way he explained his townread on me. Not lynching Bill Murray because of his extreme activity and effort, which is unlikely to come from mafia here. Not lynching The Shining for actively trying to solve the game. Not lynching LeiNadk for being inquisitive and honest. Not lynching Bourneq because no one else wanted to. That left me with three policy lynches: plotspot, cakepie, and TheBloodyDwarf. I voted for the one that everyone else was voting, for precisely that reason (and maybe Damdred is right, even though I don't see it). | ||
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On April 21 2015 05:29 Bill Murray wrote: I don't like it. But it's better than a no lynch.Trfel what is your stance on policy lynching inactives? On April 21 2015 05:29 Damdred wrote: I can't lynch Bourneq on my own. Everyone else was constantly telling me that I was wrong. I kept trying to get people's attention and convince them, but no one agreed with me at all. When nearing End of Day, that's generally a sign to stop and try something else.Also not lynching bourneq because no one else wanted to is so silly. And not trying to push my lynch earlier is so silly especially when you think i'm scum at that point lol. As for not pushing you, I've explained that already. I still felt tunneled on you at the time, so it wouldn't have helped town at all if I pushed you. | ||
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On April 21 2015 05:51 Holyflare wrote: I'm pretty sure that he means that he voted for me when he meant to vote for cakepie.how can you say you miss voted? Did cake post a list of reads since then? I don't think he did? | ||
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On April 21 2015 05:55 Holyflare wrote: Oh, I see. That makes a lot more sense.That's exactly what I'm saying dude. If he wanted to vote for cake pie then why did he put the words: . Cakepie didn't post reads so he can't have "miss voted" | ||
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Bourneq, I'll be paying attention to whatever you say. Not lynching you, I cannot guarantee. | ||
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I find it reasonable that cakepie is town and actually believes his suggestion that mafia intentionally told Bourneq to cast suspicion on me. The question isn't really if that is what actually happened, but if that is what cakepie believes. I am still quite suspicious of Bourneq for his earlier read progression on me, and I don't find his explanation very reasonable. Were it not for that, I would be willing to switch to cakepie here, I suppose. Since no one else seems to think that the inconsistency I pointed out is important, I would appreciate it if someone explained this such that an idiot (such as me) can understand it. I'll be off for dinner, be back in 20-30 minutes. Thanks! | ||
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Trfel's long post is not alignment indicative, because it was made before the game started Trfel looks good for scumreading me, because the last person who scumread me was town. I'd love to vote Trfel, he is trying a bit too hard. Trfel's big post looks forced and not genuine, I'm getting a scummy vibe. He explained the third line as being falsified to get Bill Murray to explain his read on me. If this is true, then why did he provide the fourth line, the explanation, significantly after Bill Murray explained his read on me? And yes, Bourneq posted in between these events. | ||
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To answer Holyflare's question: On April 20 2015 04:06 Bourneq wrote: Because this is a different trfel than from the last game I just came from where he was town. And making a huge post like that and trying hard to look like town seems forced and not genuine, like it comes from a scum perspective. It could be motivated from both alignments as I've stated before but I am getting a scummy vibe. Obi why do you not think this will be a high postcount game? The first two posts make sense, it's the sudden jump to scumreading me with reasons that contradict earlier statements of his that don't make sense to me. | ||
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On April 21 2015 09:55 LightningStrike wrote: Way to waste your vote with tied wagons?Well I not liking a scott or a cake pie lynch myself so I going to vote who I think can be scum. Tfrel's stuff been weird :| ##Vote:Tfrel | ||
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Cakepie looks worse to me than scott31337 does, but I don't really trust cakepie's wagon (Bourneq and to some extent Damdred). I'm torn, but my reads are normally bad, so I'll go with cakepie. ##unvote ##vote cakepie | ||
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If you are town, cakepie, I'm sorry. | ||
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On April 21 2015 09:59 Damdred wrote: Explain?##unvote ##vote scott | ||
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On April 21 2015 09:50 Holyflare wrote: ^ i don't see what's wrong with it? good first read, newbie second read, you were playing different to how he saw you before = scummy, where is last? On April 21 2015 09:52 Trfel wrote: I'd still like an answer to this, if possible.To answer Holyflare's question: The first two posts make sense, it's the sudden jump to scumreading me with reasons that contradict earlier statements of his that don't make sense to me. | ||
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On April 21 2015 10:07 Damdred wrote: Now this I don't understand.Scott ninja voted in a scummy way and trfel helped hammer someone he hard defended earlier. It's easy guys don't be dumb. That vote by Scott was horrid You make the lynch between two people that I don't want to lynch, and wouldn't answer me when I tried to move the lynch back to my preferred target. I chose the lynch I thought was better of the two, but I didn't like it. | ||
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Thanks! | ||
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On April 21 2015 10:12 Holyflare wrote: Whoops, I missed that. Sorry.no? I'm pretty sure i answered? thought you were asking bourne a q | ||
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On April 21 2015 10:40 Holyflare wrote: Huh?eh that's actually a pretty good case, despite the million unknown acronyms Scott31337 has spent most of his posts answering questions and making comments, and not making reads. This doesn't mean that he is scum, it just means that he doesn't have very many reads, like oh so many players in this game. | ||
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On April 21 2015 10:45 Holyflare wrote: To be honest, TheBloodyDwarf? I don't know how you can say that he had a noticeable number of reads.name some names then trfel Also LightningStrike, cakepie (until late in the day), and LeiNadk. | ||
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On April 21 2015 10:45 Damdred wrote: It wasn't a huge amount of time at all, it wasn't a hard defense, I don't know why you are exaggerating my actions. I wanted to get my scumread lynched instead....maybe trfel is just mafia siding its hard for me to see this huge amount of hard defending on someone so scummy I scumread Bourneq I wasn't confident in cakepie being mafia Some people want to lynch cakepie over Bourneq, but I don't understand why they want to lynch cakepie, and I don't understand why they don't want to lynch Bourneq I try to get them to lynch Bourneq, but they won't I try to show why I'm not confident in cakepie flipping scum, but they don't listen I end up having to choose between cakepie and scott31337 (with a weird wagon, and who I am even less confident in being scum), so I chose cakepie This progression is natural in every step of the way. What problem do you have with my play? As I see it, the flaw is that I was stubborn and unpleasant towards people, so I need to take a step back and remember that it's more important to have fun than to win the game. | ||
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On April 21 2015 10:51 Holyflare wrote: bloodydwarf was a lost sheep with confused no reads, scott looks like blending in weak reads with no justification, case is very good On April 19 2015 13:00 scott31337 wrote: I see this as a scumread. Despite the literal meaning of "meh", it definitely has a negative connotation.When I first read this, I thought Bourneq was asking for tone reads on himself, which I did not understand since he only had one post. Reading your point of view, I do not know what tone reads he would give off - and then added the TLDR post - meh. On April 19 2015 16:15 scott31337 wrote: Yes, it's a pressure vote, but that still is still somewhat of a commitment to the read.I think you need some encouragement. ## Vote: TheBloodyDwarf On April 21 2015 01:31 scott31337 wrote: And he then goes on to explain, in detail, why he thinks that Bill Murray is scum (by refuting the case that Bill Murray made on him). I don't see scott31337 being non-committal here, while he isn't providing tons of reads, he's providing an amount which I feel are generally acceptable for a newbie.Probably from a pool of - BM, Cakepie, Plotspot Yes, the final post was made after Bill Murray's case, possibly as a reaction to it. But I don't think that he's provided a number scumreads that is low enough to be suspicious for a newbie. One final thing of note is that scott31337 has only played one game before, Newbie Mini Mafia LX. He replaced into it, and he was mafia. In his very first post (other than saying hi), he called four people scum. I think it's reasonable to assume that a lack of experience having to actually make reads causes him to have fewer reads (this happens to so many newbies...), and this is assuming you don't meta read him as town for not taking stances on everyone right away (it is fair to blame this on him replacing into the previously mentioned game). | ||
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Was there any additional reason? | ||
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On April 21 2015 11:15 Bill Murray wrote: I never, ever had scott31337 as top town, nowhere close. I generally don't provide list posts. I made one this game because I was out for a significant amount of time, and it wasn't ordered in the categories. If you look at the actual reads, you can see that The Shining was clearly the strongest townread.when you say "who i am even less confident in being scum" why is it that you had scott as #1 town on every single one of your lists then? 2nd time you've misrepresented yourself, Trfel. Trfel solidly #2 on my scum radar now | ||
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On April 21 2015 09:57 cakepie wrote: So, Damdred, this post was enough to make you switch fromLeave Lei alone, strong pure noob town read for asking questions in thread. Scum can ask in QT. I know it's going to look funny with us both coincidentally onto scott last minute but there it is. I'm voting onto scott because he was FoS behind Bourne who rehabbed himself toward the end. Keep an eye on BM, I let him be for a bit because the more veteran players thought it was possible he just dun goofed, basically the massclaim thing was due to him casually /in to the game under assumption of certain setup without checking. But it's still weird. On April 21 2015 09:54 Damdred wrote: toEveryone stay on cake On April 21 2015 09:59 Damdred wrote: ?##unvote ##vote scott I don't really see it. | ||
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On April 21 2015 11:14 Damdred wrote: Emphasis mine, in bold.And cake looked better last few minutes. And the vote was scummy | ||
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On April 21 2015 11:53 Holyflare wrote: Are you really that convinced that I am scum?!?!!Yeh we got the pc one :/ Anyway, I'm getting funky vibes from trfel from defending all these players so much. That's my gem of wisdom for tonight :p + Show Spoiler + Newbies don't read this but it might even make scott town, depends on his replies | ||
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On April 21 2015 11:58 Bill Murray wrote: Check the list of filters at the start of the thread. Notice the uncanny similarity between the order of my list and the order of the filters?yeah because you say the exact same thing about shining here that you say about scott but you actually say even more about scott who is sitting at the top of your town list. need i say more? liar. You realize that the reason I said so little about my townread on The Shining was because it stands for itself. I don't have to explain it. I'll explain reads that people might have a question about, for The Shining, I said "need I say more?". If that doesn't state a confident read, then I don't know what does. On April 21 2015 12:00 LightningStrike wrote: LightningStrike, please don't make unflipped association reads. Especially not those involving myself, because I am town, thus they are wrong.Tfrel he not he only looking a little bit like his Student V meta when he was scum but also the way he hammer Cake when he was hard defending Cake earlier is extremely scummy for him to do that. So by association based on the votes Scott got to be Mafia with Tfrel if Scott is Mafia. The 3rd one is a mystery still. Who you think is the 3rd Mafia if Tfrel and Scott are Mafia? Anyway, I respect your view that you won't vote for someone who you don't think is scum. However, not everyone shares this view. I think that it's better to make the best with your options than to make a vote that doesn't matter. Furthermore, I hammered a null read of mine in the last game, Student Mafia VII (hammered TheBloodyDwarf over prplhz, because I felt that TheBloodyDwarf was null while prplhz was town, despite Half the Sky, the towniest player, calling for prplhz's head). | ||
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I still think that Bourneq is mafia here. And I'll keep on thinking so until something actually suggests otherwise. Towny things that Bourneq does + Show Spoiler + On April 19 2015 20:47 Bourneq wrote: While this post doesn't say anything that is actually important to the game, Bourneq seems relaxed. I'm not sure that a first time scum would be able to respond in such a relaxed manner.I was laughing really bad reading this. I was making a joke in both thoose comments. First joke because of last game when we lost because I did not know what a tone read was. Secondly I updated the page as I was brushing my teeth and see a post as long as my arm. I acctually read the thing and felt like it had been written up the day before so it looks just as scummy as it looks townie to me. Anyway I was just about to go to sleep so I just said TL;DR as a joke and headed for bed. On a completely different note, I am excited too see what dwarf will bring to the table this game. So far I could get behind lynching all the americans but I dont know if that is a valid strategy since they dont necessarily have to be scum to be americans. On April 20 2015 06:52 Bourneq wrote: Bourneq seems to be actively thinking through Bill Murray's request for the power roles to claim, and he didn't immediately arrive at the conclusion that Bill Murray is mafia (like many others did). This looks good.I would geniunly like to hear the benfits of mass claiming D1. Thinking about it, I dont understand how it would help us? Scum would know who to kill and could super easily counterclaim so that town looses any potential benefits. Bill is not a newbie so I must be missing something right? Seems like a stupid thing to ask for even if he is scum. On April 20 2015 19:47 Bourneq wrote: In addition, Bourneq provided a read on ObiWanShinobi. This read went against the thread sentiment, and even though he doesn't sound very confident in it, it does look good for him.Currently Obi is on my radar. This post above is worse than my answer last game when asked to give a tone read. And that says something. Especially since obi is not a newbie and I am. He seems awfully set on plynching D1 aswell which I dont like. All this said I still would not scumlist him. Why Bourneq is scum
Bourneq needs to die. | ||
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That doesn't stop me from being proud of my intellect anyway | ||
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On April 19 2015 21:40 LightningStrike wrote: Here's his first post with reads. In order:I'm back and saw TheBloodyDwarf complaining on the lack of Europeans in this thread. Also Shining had a question which will now be answered: Okay let's be honest here I usually get scumread for my early reads list by most people but here some thoughts on people: OWS: Null he haven't done much yet but I know when he post more I can give more of a accurate meta read because he haven't posted much. Shinging: Maybe Town you seem to be trying actually but I haven't forgiven you on being scum in our last game together LeiNadk: Just a confused townie most likely he being earnest I feel with him asking questions on how to play kinda reminds me of myself on my first game on TL. Tfrel: Null he can do most of his stuff as both alignments (Hinted at pregame he would do a really large post) Scott: He looked so damn townie when he was scum and he looks townie here to so null. Bourneq: Null he haven't really done much. Also Bourneq I'm here what's your thoughts so far? His ObiWanShinobi read is acceptable. I would prefer to see a townread here, but null is fine, ObiWanShinobi hadn't done that much yet. Read on The Shining is fair enough. Read on LeiNadk is good, suggests that he is reading the game carefully. Read on me is fine. Read on scott31337 is good. Read on Bourneq is fine. Only his reads on The Shining, LeiNadk, and scott31337 actually convey an opinion (and two of them are really weak). From there, he is slightly suspicious of scott31337 for announcing that his vote is a pressure vote, but suggests that he could be town for increased activity compared to his last game (as mafia). The willingness to reconsider is good, the inconclusive result less so. He then says that Bill Murray blue hunting is bad. No conclusion on Bill Murray's alignment, but does say that his vote on Onegu is bad as well (and says that he isn't sure of Bill Murray's alignment in the same post). Finally, almost 40 hours into Day 1, LightningStrike comes up with an actual scumread (of sorts, he calls it a weird feeling). This read certainly isn't unique, Damdred and Bill Murray already mentioned it, and perhaps more. In addition to his reads, most of LightningStrike's posts are defending himself or clarifying people who misinterpret his posts. I don't think that it is appropriate to scumread LightningStrike for this, especially at this time (hi Holyflare), but it's something to keep in mind. LightningStrike even acknowledges that this is thread sentiment in this post: On April 21 2015 02:00 LightningStrike wrote: He suggests that Bourneq switched to being suspicious of me due to following the thread sentiment (implying that the thread sentiment as he sees it is scumreading me).I don't like I would argue he just trying new things (sheeping the thread sentiment) because he's still new and probably doesn't got a clue on to do stuff so sheeping would be a good option for that. On April 21 2015 08:48 LightningStrike wrote: Implying that he was liking a Bourneq lynch in the past? Why didn't he say so? And if so, why didn't he reduce his suspicion of me, because I pushed Bourneq so much? Even if you assume that LightningStrike never wanted to lynch Bourneq, then his tone suggests that before Bourneq started martyring, he would have accepted it.Ya I not liking a Bourneq lynch now the martyrdom making me not want him lynched but there isn't really any good wagon for me to go on :| On April 21 2015 09:55 LightningStrike wrote: His strongest scumread, and all he can say is that I've been weird? This is all he's said about me to this point (nearly the end of Day 1), that I'm weird.Well I not liking a scott or a cake pie lynch myself so I going to vote who I think can be scum. Tfrel's stuff been weird :| ##Vote:Tfrel On April 21 2015 10:17 LightningStrike wrote: Ignore the unflipped association read. He makes two points: that my hammer on cakepie, who I defended, is terrible, and that my "guide to mafia" is educational, and I did that in my last scum game. I don't remember if I really did that, but this is interesting, given his earlier post here:Like I said I don't vote for people I don't think are scum and the fact that Tfrel hammered the guy he hard defended early is terrible. If Tfrel flips Mafia Scott is Mafia based on the way Tfrel hammered a townie he hard defended earlier. Plus I was getting vides of him being Mafia due to the fact that he posted similar educational stuff in his last student game that I had played with him when he was scum (Student V). On April 19 2015 21:40 LightningStrike wrote: So I am scummy for posting a guide on mafia, while I was null earlier (this post being the significant part of my folder) and hinted at doing so pregame?Tfrel: Null he can do most of his stuff as both alignments (Hinted at pregame he would do a really large post) I'm just not seeing as much as I would expect from LightningStrike. His one strong scumread (second scumread is unflipped association) was never actually explained until after the lynch (after he voted for me with confidence of my alignment), using one reason that happened after he decided that I was mafia and one reason that he already said was null. I'm suspicious of LightningStrike here, but it's by no means a slam dunk. | ||
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Trfel
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That's an interesting take. However, I don't necessarily think that it is alignment indicative. His reads on ObiWanShinobi and Damdred aren't the best, but his reasoning (if vague) is correct. Also, it is fair that scott31337 immediately asked TheBloodyDwarf for reads, since TheBloodyDwarf didn't provide reads all game last game (which I think scott31337 observed). Scott31337 explained his reasoning in the post you quoted, and I think that it is fair. He wasn't looking for a strong read, he was looking for any sentiments at all, which by that time almost all of the players who had posted (including himself) had provided. However, the way he unvoted this is indeed suspicious. My guess is that he decided it wasn't getting anywhere and wanted TheBloodyDwarf to feel less pressured, but I believe he was also under fire from LightningStrike for this at the time. This is strange. I had forgotten about this. I disagree with your assessment that scott31337 isn't providing useful content. He isn't doing that much, and his posts are worded in un-convincing ways, but he is making reads. Allow me to explain. I guess, here's the difference between my thoughts on Bourneq, LightningStrike, and scott31337. All three haven't been producing very much content this game. That in itself isn't terribly alignment indicative. However, what else have they done? Bourneq has shown some extremely strange read progressions. LightningStrike didn't have any scumread until late in the day, plus the only specific reasons he gave were ones that occurred after he made his read. Furthermore, I know from experience that he is capable of more. Scott31337's actions after End of Day look better. Unlike the other two, he hasn't done something truly suspicious (removing his vote on TheBloodyDwarf isn't as strange as what Bourneq and LightningStrike did). This doesn't make scott31337 town by any means, but it does make me hesitant to lynch him at the moment. That's the difference. You raised several good points, and I like your thinking. While I don't agree with you at this time, I will definitely keep an eye on scott31337. | ||
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Thoughts on my cases on Bourneq and LightningStrike would be much appreciated. And thoughts on LeiNadk's case on scott31337 as well, I find it rather interesting. | ||
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He refuted a lot of points that I wasn't actually making, and refuted several other points in ways that I don't understand. However, he seems extremely confident in what he is saying, and very determined. Because of this, it seems more likely that the inconsistencies that I see in his play are caused by different phrasing and communication between us than him actually being mafia here, especially given how he points at sentences that I interpret one way and then emphatically states a completely different interpretation. I do note that the point titled "Bonus!" was a joke. Don't get so frustrated over a joke... Anyway, I don't really want to lynch Bourneq any more. If my points on Bourneq were (in his eyes) correct, he would have given up long before. His persistence means that he believes them, even if I still don't understand some things in his play. Still would like to see LightningStrike's response, however it seems that lack of reads is not alignment indicative in this game, and to an extreme degree. I'm confident in Holyflare being town. He's been willing to lead the thread and discuss with everyone. His posts have had an honest tone to them, and I haven't noticed any of the tells that Holyflare leaves as mafia. My guess is that the mafia are between scott31337, Damdred, LeiNadk, Onegu, and LightningStrike. But I'm not very confident in scott31337, Damdred, and LeiNadk being there. When I look through Onegu's filter, he actually could be scum here. The most suspicious thing is that he voted for scott31337 for the OMGUS on Bill Murray, however when scott31337 pointed out that he made comments in Bill Murray's case, Onegu said that he didn't notice them. But never commented on how this affected ihs read, and didn't post anything useful all through End of Day. | ||
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Among the veteran players* on this site, the common opinion is that town should continue to discuss through the night just as much as they would during the day. Yes, it does provide the mafia more information for their night kills, but that is vastly outweighed by the increased discussion and information that town has to work with. And the mafia night kills aren't as important as town working together to catch mafia. *And no, I'm not claiming to be a veteran player. I personally have no way to know if it is better to discuss at night or not, but I'm trusting experienced players on this. I like scott31337's post above. I forgot that he showed suspicions of Onegu, and I look forward to hearing his reasoning. | ||
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On April 22 2015 05:31 LightningStrike wrote: But you can worry about that if I flip scum, there is no sense worrying about it now.I already got scott as one if you are scum based on EoD stuff going down. I still struggling on the 3rd person to be scum with you and scott if you both are scum. Ignoring me, do you have any other scum suspects? | ||
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Trfel
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On April 22 2015 05:41 Holyflare wrote: Onegu spends all game buddying and has a super weird reaction to bm's idiocy but then ignores Scott's replies for the most part only to say he's around at deadline and do nothing. Not even any input after flip. Kill that mofo. Has no input on anyone. On April 22 2015 01:45 Trfel wrote: I notice the similarity When I look through Onegu's filter, he actually could be scum here. The most suspicious thing is that he voted for scott31337 for the OMGUS on Bill Murray, however when scott31337 pointed out that he made comments in Bill Murray's case, Onegu said that he didn't notice them. But never commented on how this affected his read, and didn't post anything useful all through End of Day. I'd like to see Onegu's response, but I agree that he is the most suspicious. | ||
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Trfel
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+ Show Spoiler + And no, I'm not claiming scum, lol | ||
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On April 22 2015 05:51 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Why do you think that Holyflare is mafia?Holyflare is probably mafia. This game is about to get incredibly annoying. | ||
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On April 22 2015 05:53 Holyflare wrote: Are you intentionally stealing all of my comments to make me townread you? If so, you should keep doing it, because it's working.I'm also not so sure on Scott being mafia after reading his other game. Looks like he's actually trying to do things with the information he has but is struggling and in his mafia game he has free reads on loads of people. | ||
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Onegu, can you provide examples of ObiWanShinobi not following up on his reads? | ||
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Imagine a game where someone is obviously town, and someone is obviously scummy. I townread both. Which townread are you more interested in, and which one are you like "explain that townread, I guess"? | ||
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I was abrasive and stubborn, I didn't communicate properly or in a manner that is enjoyable. I got in the way of people's enjoyment of the game, which is worse than any gameplay decision. And for that, I apologize. Honestly, I'm kind of glad that I was shot. It was better for the thread that I wasn't there, given how obnoxious I was being. I feel pretty terrible about this, and I'll do my best to make sure that my play is more reasonable going forward, so that people actually want to play with me. | ||
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