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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I'm Trfel. Nice to meet you. Anyway, I figured it was time to jump in a bit. I do agree with the bolded phrase that batsnacks mentioned, it seems to slightly hint more at being mafia than town, however overall Half the Sky seems to be thinking constructively. So I don't have a read either way there, since his posts also seem like they would be good cover posts for mafia (seem to be helpful at first, but ultimately don't add anything). My gut tells me he is town, though. Not sure what to think of sicklucker, I disagreed with some of his logic and I think that clouded my reading. I'll be sure to go back through again to get a better idea. Breshke seems to be slightly leaning town for me. Mostly for his questioning. Still extremely flexible on this. Not sure what to make of Damdred/batsnacks/Oatsmaster and the rest yet. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 25 2014 12:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Man, what is this. Whos scum Trefel? If I had to take a guess right now, I would guess sicklucker and Half the Sky. But I feel like it's far too early for me to confidently make reads. As the vote gets closer, I will consider more strongly who to vote for. Until then, a no lynch or a policy lynch on an inactive (kushm4sta?) seems better than trying to take a guess if it still seems unclear. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
To respond to Oatsmaster: On November 25 2014 07:26 Half the Sky wrote: Are you voting him down because he's serious and just trolling or because you're a baddie trying to lynch a good guy? Granted this is my first ever TLM game so you probably know this lad more than I do...just saying. I can read that either way. I don't really see a reason for Half the Sky to be asking the question asked in the first sentence. Obviously Breshke's vote was to force sicklucker back into the game, and was never a truly serious lynch vote (except a potential policy lynch). The fact that he brings this up potentially indicates that he may be scum, as this promotes indecision and doubt in the town (obviously town doesn't want to mis-lynch, but at the same time, if we are too worried about town errors we can't accomplish anything). On November 25 2014 07:45 Half the Sky wrote: Alright, fair play. I had thought for some reason he was a vet who was just bored, and then seeing your last post, checked the list and no he's not a vet, so I stand corrected. I guess I'll be keeping a similar eye on him, and based on his reaction will vote accordingly. Although if he actually is town and trolling, he's not really helping his/our case. I agree, it is an eager time to vote him down now, but if he is town, that's exactly what the baddies want. Easy targets... So sicklucker, what's the deal? Again, he references playing into the mafia's hands. Seems just a tad suspicious to me. Across these two posts, he hasn't really accomplished much, either. He's just said that he will keep an eye on sicklucker, and I would hope that everyone here would be keeping an eye on everyone else. Obviously this is nowhere near conclusive, I'm just not convinced that Half the Sky is town as some other people seem to be. It seems likely that he is a town player questioning something he didn't understand, but it's also possible that he is mafia who was trying to seem helpful but only impeding the progress of the town. I was thinking that sicklucker seemed suspicious due to the "trap" at the start of the game, as well as the way he turned on Breshke for the early vote. Clearly the vote wasn't a serious vote, therefore it isn't rushed or hasty. Also, I remain inconclusive about Half the Sky, but sicklucker seemed a bit eager accept Half the Sky as town (since then, he has clarified that this claim is extremely tentative). This suggested that perhaps sicklucker and Half the Sky are both mafia (however, it's also quite likely that both are town). Sicklucker also has gone out of his way several times to say that he is town, which doesn't feel necessary, since everyone is going to say that they are town. Again, nowhere near enough for an accurate read on anyone. I'll keep working on it. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 25 2014 14:16 Oatsmaster wrote: whats your read on batsnacks? I'm honestly not sure if it is better to policy lynch or no lynch. Either way, there are definitely conflicting views in this thread (LightningStrike on the no lynch side, batsnacks on the policy lynch side, for example), so if there was clearly a right answer, there wouldn't be an argument over this, since the town could just prove that their answer was correct, and everyone else would either accept it or be lynched. Therefore, I can't read into his vote on kushm4sta. It's easy to unvote later if necessary. Meanwhile, if the vote causes him to post more, great. However, repeatedly asking others to also vote kushm4sta does seem strange, since we probably should be more interested in getting people to talk now. If policy lynching is the correct route (which I'm not sure), we can worry about that closer to the vote deadline. I would definitely like batsnacks to let up on kushm4sta, that is something to potentially return to later. I agree with batsnacks on his view of Half the Sky, as I previously stated. Definitely doesn't seem to me like as clear of a town read as some other people think. Batsnacks also seems to have slightly hinted that you (Oatsmaster) could be scum, which I suppose is possible, but I don't really see evidence for at the moment. Other than that, he hasn't really shared any constructive thoughts. Therefore, I would hope that he would start being more constructive in the near future, particularly by pushing for information on people who are posting (as opposed to kushm4sta), or I could definitely read him as scum. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 25 2014 15:14 Oatsmaster wrote: The right answer is to lynch scum. Bleh, this whole post is wishy washy. Is your final conclusion that he isnt town but isnt scum too? Sorry for the lack of clarity. I was attempting to show my thought process on the way to my conclusion. In the future I will try to refrain from mentioning thoughts that don't end up having importance with respect to my conclusion. To clarify, my conclusion is that batsnacks' behavior is quite suspicious. However, I'm not confident enough to vote him yet, and there is still time before the lynch deadline. First I want to examine his play in some past games, and I would like him to answer a few questions: 1. "There is no such thing as scum slips" Why do you say this? 2. Oatsmaster is accusing you of being scum, and your defense is "If all of this is true then your vote is in the right place and you should keep it there." This isn't a defense. I believe the burden is on you to defend your behavior and to be more constructive going forward, and not on Oatsmaster. Also, Half the Sky, no one is accusing you of being mafia. I just don't feel like there is any real reason to conclude that you are town yet. That's all. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 25 2014 15:56 Breshke wrote: Trfel how new are you to mafia? This is my first TL Mafia game. I've played twice in real life before. On November 25 2014 23:02 LightningStrike wrote: I think Trfel is just a new town player because his post although giving answers to why he scum reading HTS. Also he followed up to clarify his post thoughts from his previous post from Page 10 and is trying to give a good reason for his reads. HTS seems null as his actions seems questionable on his post about Breske and sicklucker policy lynching but he also said he was new to TL mafia so maybe it just his lack of experience in TL mafia just showing up now. rsoultin seems to be scum as his posts were not much content but then again it was our very first day of the game so the reads not be good at the moment as he posted very little. I'm not reading Half the Sky as scum, I'm just not yet confident that he is town. I said this in my third post in the thread (first one after the start of the game): On November 25 2014 12:35 Trfel wrote: So I don't have a read either way there ... My gut tells me he is town, though. I'm not sure if that is what what you meant, but just to clarify, I do not want and never have wanted to policy lynch sicklucker. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Looking at batsnacks' posts this game, it does seem like he hasn't contributed many reads or constructive comments at all. He has pressure voted kushm4sta, and tried to convince other people to vote for kushm4sta, as shown: On November 25 2014 10:27 batsnacks wrote: I think you should all start voting kush since that's the most logical vote right now. Then Oatsmaster starts hinting that he might be mafia, and he responds as follows: On November 25 2014 12:25 batsnacks wrote: This isn't a read. None of oats' posts contain reads. oats is play is like 80% asking questions that have already been answered and 20% badgering the host about issues he could fix himself. If my plynch on kush is bad give me something better. I've seen oats play a lot better than he is doing right now. He just starts attacking Oatsmaster, without actually providing any argument against the accsusations. It's been nearly 24 hours and I cannot find any critical thinking or logical reads from batsnacks. He has been only minimally probing for information, as well. Now, examining batsnacks' mafia history, it seems to show similar, non-accusatory play as mafia, but an ability to logically provide arguments against people as town. In Fantasy Football Mafia Mini 2, his most recent mafia game, batsnacks was a mafia vanilla. His posts generally seem to lack content, for example this: On October 23 2014 16:57 batsnacks wrote: I only had to swap 2 letters, the A and the I. You have to swap 3, the N, O, and W. Plus you have an extra letter that doesn't even belong there. Looks like I'm right about you. You're clearly reaching here. batsnacks did give some analysis in saying that robik seemed to be town in that game, which ended up being correct. But he failed to provide specifics or any real evidence of this: On October 24 2014 06:50 batsnacks wrote: I think robik looks pretty solid. I like how he's posting; he's focused, not all caps, consolidated, no personal dramas, that stuff is what reminds me of hard to get along with robik. @DrParnassus what about robik this game seem hard to cooperate with? Could you quote an example? You did say -everything about the way he's playing- reminds you of that. He also defends Liam from an accusation. Up to now, the only two real things he's said are claiming these two people to be town. At this point he is accused of being mafia, and this is his defense: On October 24 2014 21:41 batsnacks wrote: I think I'm not a good lynch right now. For obvious reasons. He continues to not provide any true defense or explanation for his actions, and ends up being lynched on the first day. In his mafia game before that, Fantasy Football (FFL) Mini, batsnacks is a town vanilla. On October 06 2014 23:34 batsnacks wrote: I agreed with HF a lot last game and he was town. I'm agreeing with him this game already so, tentatively town. I'm voting you because I think you're scummy. Also lol at "accidentally" You claimed on accident now? batsnacks accuses Oatsmaster of being mafia in this game (which ends up being incorrect). But when he defends someone as being town, he provides some support for this claim, and also shares his views a bit. On October 07 2014 08:07 batsnacks wrote: Wait a minute, something isn't right. I quoted all of the following from the same post. No townie in this game knows the ratio of town to mafia, so it is correct here that BH gives us an example ratio of 10/3 or 22% as an example. But then later in that post he says this: BH how do you KNOW there are exactly 3 mafia? I bolded fact because that's a serious word to throw around when you're supposedly working with estimates. Here's a critical analysis of a post in that game. It doesn't result in anything, but this post has more logic and scum-searching than his play to this point in the current game, as well as his play in the first game I mentioned, where he was mafia. On October 08 2014 02:24 batsnacks wrote: Does it make you nervous that I've already figured out you're mafia? Then he claims Hopeless1der to be mafia, which ends up being correct. I don't see any reasoning listed, though. This post also came after the first 24 hours of the game, unlike all of the other posts quoted here. I did notice this inconsistency between his post in this game: On November 25 2014 10:58 batsnacks wrote:There is no such thing as scum slips, so no, dude didn't scum slip. and this: On October 07 2014 08:29 batsnacks wrote: I think it's feasible that he slipped. besides The TL mafia database disagrees that random lynch is better. So by random lynching we 1) have worse odds of lynching mafia and 2) players who agree with the random lynch have zero accountability for their votes. Why the change? Probably just a change in his playstyle, but another explanation is that he is searching for mafia in that game, and has less incentive to do so in this game. Looking at batsnacks' play in the game preceding the above game, 2p2 Vanilla Werewolf 13er, batsnacks immediately comes up with a comprehensive look at GlowingBear: On September 26 2014 08:14 batsnacks wrote: I'm not completely caught up yet but I still think GB is mafiawolf. Here's his case on storr. He says storr is pretending to be aggressive town by disliking entrances. That is a weird thing to say. How can GB tell the difference between someone who is pretending to be aggressive town and someone who actually is aggressive town based on so few posts? Imo he can't and is just making stuff up. He also scum reads storr for saying someone is "definitely" mafia and says he said the exact same thing as scum last game. Well, look at this: He did it again this game. I also think this post is scummy: The "at least" in that sentence is really scummy to me. It's a tone thing. It's like he's really saying "I'm mafia but at least I'm the only one trying to get people talking." It's also scummy how he says he's the -only- person getting people talking. GB made a case against HF earlier for dropping his case against HaruRH. I'm not a mind reader but I think HF made that case to get people talking. So GB is scum reading HF for trying to get people talking -- while saying he, GB, is the only contributor in the thread. I also think this post is scummy: GB is referring to himself in the third person here in order to distance himself from his reads that he doesn't actually believe in. How can he be confident he's caught the whole scum team and solved the game? Later when he's drunk he posts this: So now GB has found 4 mafia... HF is mafia for getting people talking with an early case, Haru is mafia for unflipped assosiations, storr is mafia because GB can tell somehow that storr is just pretending to be aggressive town, and JAT is mafia because ??? Speaking of reads, GB is frantic this game about "getting reads." He is addicted to reads and needs an intervention. He wants to convince us so badly that he is trying to get reads that he can not stop saying it: He's clearly thinking and investigating the posts, and trying to find the scum. Then he starts thinking that SkyDragon is scum: On September 26 2014 08:18 batsnacks wrote: Also this post is really scummy: It's a long post filled with info that makes zero conclusions about anything. Perfect mafia post. If I'm not voting GB today I'm voting skydragon. He continues to press on GlowingBear and SkyDragon. Both end up being town, but batsnacks is showing that he is capable and willing to attempt to find scum and provide logical accusations that other players are scum. In conclusion, batsnacks seems very suspcious because he has not yet provided any real content, particularly at least one accusation of someone being mafia with an argument behind it. This resembles his play in his last game, where he was mafia, and contrasts with his play in previous games where he was town. What do you guys think? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I'm not saying you guys should agree with me, I'm saying, here's the evidence, and here's what I think of it. Feel free to look up more info by yourself, and reach your own conclusions. I want to know what you guys think, that's why I posted. I don't feel like you need to play with someone to be able to have some ability to read them. All of the posts are saved... just by reading a game, you can get a good idea for what's going on. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 26 2014 08:48 batsnacks wrote: @Trfel do you have other scum reads or shouldn't you be voting me? I am not voting you yet because there is still plenty of time to vote. I would rather get a chance to hear what other players say and get some more information. I've expressed this view before: On November 25 2014 14:57 Trfel wrote: ... It's easy to unvote later if necessary. Meanwhile, if the vote causes him to post more, great. However, repeatedly asking others to also vote kushm4sta does seem strange, since we probably should be more interested in getting people to talk now. If policy lynching is the correct route (which I'm not sure), we can worry about that closer to the vote deadline... I am also trying to see your defense. As it stands, you don't have one. If this remains this way, don't worry, I'll be voting for you. Either way, I don't see what my vote has to do with my accusations. I have been keeping up with the thread, but no, I haven't taken a detailed look at any other players yet. To be honest I spent a good bit of time looking at your previous games and revising my post. I will definitely be taking a closer look at other players soon. For example, I'm not convinced that rsoultin is mafia. This post strikes me as the most important: On November 26 2014 04:08 rsoultin wrote: And you won't for at least another round or two. Why? 1. I'm still getting used to the way a real mafia site works. 2. You guys talk way too much air anyway, so I don't need to push you to talk more. 3. Right now it's mostly speculation, meta, bandwagoning and useless. Once actions start coming in you'll hear more from me. And you're still topping my lynch votes, Oats. Mostly because I find consistently misreading/picking and choosing half my posts to pay attention to and attack annoying. Without solid scum reads, I will go with the one that seems scummiest and is giving me a headache just to shut you up.  Cheers.I don't really agree with the view he presented, but it definitely seems plausible that this is really what he thinks. He doesn't seem to be afraid to me, just not confident in people's abilities to get a good read early in the game. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 25 2014 12:25 batsnacks wrote: This isn't a read. None of oats' posts contain reads. oats is play is like 80% asking questions that have already been answered and 20% badgering the host about issues he could fix himself. If my plynch on kush is bad give me something better. I've seen oats play a lot better than he is doing right now. On November 26 2014 01:49 batsnacks wrote: I don't think LS is mafia based on his posting being highly similar to last game (he was cop) On November 26 2014 02:33 batsnacks wrote: I think kush is town oats. I just looked at all of your posts, and these are the only posts that I can see where you offer any sort of a read or an accusation whatsoever (I left out the post where you voted for Oatsmaster, but that didn't really say anything other than a vote). This seems to be an extremely short list to me, and lacks explanations. As for your read on Oatsmaster: I'm not a big fan of Oatsmaster's attitide, see below: On November 25 2014 11:29 Oatsmaster wrote: Oi filters in OP please. On November 25 2014 11:57 Oatsmaster wrote: I really don't appreciate the constant reference that you are in 2 games slam. Please stop it. But that doesn't matter. To me, he seems to have consistently shown a geniune desire to keep the thread on focus, and having that focus be searching for the mafia. He's asked a lot of questions, and despite having an actual argument against you, seems to be suspicious of rsoultin as well. To me, these are reads. I disagree with the rsoultin read, but it is still a read, with some logic behind it. Thus, for your "read" on Oatsmaster to be worth anything, you need to provide some more reasons for it. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 26 2014 09:42 batsnacks wrote: Well to me oats looks like he's nitpicking and fucking off. I'm pretty sure every person oats has communicated with this game has accused him of the same. He doesn't even follow up on his nitpicking e.g. when he asked me this: And I responded with this: And NOTHING. Zero conclusions made. He is just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. Yes, I also find it strange that Oatsmaster hasn't seemed to respond to when people answer his questions. To be fair, Oatsmaster questioned me a few times earlier, and while I felt he was aggressive, I'm glad he was looking for info and he had good reasons for asking. I didn't feel nitpicked at all. Instead of nitpicking, you seem to be mostly doing nothing. I'm glad that you are finally making a defense, but this is (I believe) the third time you have been asked for one. And you still haven't provided any real scum reads. ##Vote: batsnacks | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 26 2014 09:57 batsnacks wrote: Trfel point me toward what you think oats has gained and utilized from his nitpicking. All I see is people calling him out for it and people complaining about it. On November 26 2014 02:31 Oatsmaster wrote: So I'm not a scum read rsoultin? Interesting. Why aren't you putting in effort to find scum since you have no scum reads? I don't see an inquisitive mindset from you. This seems to be the best he's gotten. My point still stands, to me you are looking very much like scum. Trying to turn people's attentions towards Oatsmaster doesn't change that. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 26 2014 10:24 batsnacks wrote: I'm CLEARLY not trying to turn attention. Exactly the opposite. I have been trying to get people to pay attention to you and your case. I think oats is scum and I'm trying to explain it to you. You are voting me because I, allegedly, don't have scum reads. Simply having one scum read, which I feel started as a reaction for being voted for, doesn't feel like enough to me. Still though, I'll take a closer look later tonight. To everyone else (except Half the Sky, thanks for sharing your thoughts, I'll take a look at Damdred later tonight), I'd really like some feedback. If my case is really stupid, let me know. If it's full of holes, show them to me. Otherwise, vote for batsnacks. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 26 2014 10:26 kushm4sta wrote: oats, thoughts on dicksmash? batsnacks lynch aint gonna happen. neither is an oats lynch. Why won't a batsnacks lynch happen? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 26 2014 11:06 Breshke wrote: I also like Trefl because i think with his experience I can overlook the fact that he wrote a lot of words but didnt take hard stances this could be wrong though. Is pushing for a vote on batsnacks not a hard stance? Obviously I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty confident about him. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 25 2014 10:27 batsnacks wrote: I think you should all start voting kush since that's the most logical vote right now. That's the problem post with the kushm4sta policy lynch for me. Yes, I'm glad that he forced kusmh4sta to the thread. However, we don't need to focus only on one afk player to bring them back into the game. We can still investigate the people here while pressuring kushm4sta to play, we don't need to sidetrack our discussions for a policy lynch. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 26 2014 12:32 Dicksmash McIroncock wrote: Before I read more does anyone who's played with trfle know if he always posts insanely long posts? So far reading in im looking at him for something he said in page 13 where he directly contradicts himself that I can't quote but I have much to read On November 26 2014 01:05 Trfel wrote: This is my first TL Mafia game. I've played twice in real life before. I'm not reading Half the Sky as scum, I'm just not yet confident that he is town. I said this in my third post in the thread (first one after the start of the game): I'm not sure if that is what what you meant, but just to clarify, I do not want and never have wanted to policy lynch sicklucker. This is the only post I made on page 13, so I assume you're referring to this. Ironically, the very first part of that post answers the question you just asked. Since I haven't played in any mafia games before, no one here has played with me before.... I consider a gut feeling and a logical read to be different things. Both are useful, both have limitations. This is my thinking at the time I made that post: My intuition told me that Half the Sky is just a fairly new mafia player who is being clear with his reads and thoughts, which is good. However, were he more experienced, I would think that the same posts would make him seem a bit like mafia. Therefore, I felt that it was inconclusive either way. I presented the side of the argument for Half the Sky leaning mafia, as the argument for him being town had already been presented by multiple people. My intentions for that were misunderstood several times, so clearly that was a mistake. I definitely need to work on being far clearer with my points. | ||
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