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On February 07 2014 08:38 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:28 Cephiro wrote:On February 07 2014 08:21 LSB wrote:On February 07 2014 07:57 Cephiro wrote:
Yush Wave, just got that far in the thread. At the moment it would probably be Holy (pushing me for out-of-game reasons too, wut?), or LSB (lots of stuff that doesn't make enough sense).
Like what on earth are these "confirmed" townies he speaks of? All his possible endgame scenarios include one. That alone is scummy as hell, pointing out several possible endgame options yet leaving out the more likely ones. He also speaks of suiciding being counterproductive. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't always aim to lynch a townie. ??? What are you talking about? I covered all possible scenarios that could occur starting tomorrow. What other end game scenarios could occur? There is no such thing as confirmed town in this game for an alive player. Just because you think marv is town doesn't mean everyone else agrees, nor that he actually is. I'm making the assumption you're not talking about yourself as a confirmed townie from the perspective you put it, especially as others would not be able to know that.
Lynch = No flip. Shot person = Flip.
Scum will never shoot their own buddy in this setup. Thus if the scum is lynched, we won't be able to know and just see town dying and go into possible panic due to misreading the situation as the worst possible scenario.
Why is scum getting lynched a bad thing? If we lynch you and you shoot Marv, you flip yourself as mafia. If you shoot someone who is on the possible scum list, we get rid of two borderline players. Either way a scum dies and that is good for the town. Because scum will never shoot scum. If you lynch scum that shoots a townie, you can't be sure if that player is actually scum, or if it's a townie taking revenge/trying to be a hero/whatever other possibilities there are. Let's go with the assumption that you lynch me and I shoot marv. I know I'm town. Let's assume marv is town also. Just because I shoot him, even if most players consider him to be town, does not make me scum. I can see why you're trying to implicate that, but you have to understand that is not necessarily the case as townies have been known to go rogue and make their own decisions at times. My point is, why would you leave it up to guessing when you can take the sure way out? Unfortunately I am finding it harder and harder to believe you are thinking about the setup from a townie perspective. Town objective- Kill three mafia Mafia objective- Have a townie lynch another townie two times. As a townie, all I care about is if a mafia is dead or not. Whether or not the mafia is flipped doesn't really matter to me. Artanis flipped red but really, who cares? He was probably the most obvious day 1 bus target you can get. Connections are not alignment indicative. By lynching scummy players I have multiple chances to hit a scum in a cycle. I can either get them killed at the lynch, or if I am wrong, the player may be able to redeem himself by shooting a scum. If I lynch a scum, then we have accomplished what we need to do. If I am 'sure' that someone is scum I should lynch him, because even if I am wrong, we still have a chance that a scum will die. If I lynched a townie and he hits my target and flips green, well I just killed two townies
As a mafia I try to orchestrate a situation in which we can have a townie lynch another townie. And this is exactly what you are doing. You are trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to kill me (which I know is a townie)
I agree with this post, not as much with the second part.
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On February 07 2014 07:57 Cephiro wrote:
I'd like LSB to be shot right now. The lynched person is a little harder to decide as I'd prefer to be sure that player is town. But on the other hand I don't want my strongest townreads to get killed either. Rayn & DP I want to keep around for now, same with you. So it comes down to lynching marv or holy.
On February 07 2014 08:36 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:25 LSB wrote:
I am deeply concerned about Cephiro trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to get me shot. I know that I am a townie, so this falls under my "worst case scenario of townie shooting townie" argument.
This is incredibly different from Marv/HF who are both asking people to lynch them so they can pull the trigger themselves. Unless they are bluffing (which applies more to HF than Marv) mafia should never offer themselves as a sacrifice. 1) I have merely pointed out my suspicions on you and referred to you as my preferred lynch target since I was asked of that specific question. 2) If you are scum, there is no reason for scum to shoot you. I am not in need of tempting another townie to get to shoot you, I am just fine doing it myself. I figure it would be best to talk cooperatively among town who they want to keep around for lategame to ensure the best possibilities of winning. As you might have noticed, I am in no rush to make decisions about who to lynch or who to shoot this cycle, neither was I during last cycle. This is also a reason why I'm sad that Prome was the one to take the shot, since I would have preferred him to stay alive later in the game, and had an more unsure read take the shot. @Wave: It's suboptimal play. Why guess if we can have facts? Certainly it might not even become a deciding factor of any sorts, but why take the risk? Why not go for the guaranteed information?
In the first post you say I am scum and you are willing to trade a townie (that is not yourself) for me.
In the second post you say you are unsure whether or not I am scum and you are willing to trade yourself for me.
If you combine these two post together we have someone who wants to trade a townie for a player that he has 'suspicions on' and not entirely sure
##unvote
##Vote Cephiro
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On February 07 2014 08:38 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:28 Cephiro wrote:On February 07 2014 08:21 LSB wrote:On February 07 2014 07:57 Cephiro wrote:
Yush Wave, just got that far in the thread. At the moment it would probably be Holy (pushing me for out-of-game reasons too, wut?), or LSB (lots of stuff that doesn't make enough sense).
Like what on earth are these "confirmed" townies he speaks of? All his possible endgame scenarios include one. That alone is scummy as hell, pointing out several possible endgame options yet leaving out the more likely ones. He also speaks of suiciding being counterproductive. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't always aim to lynch a townie. ??? What are you talking about? I covered all possible scenarios that could occur starting tomorrow. What other end game scenarios could occur? There is no such thing as confirmed town in this game for an alive player. Just because you think marv is town doesn't mean everyone else agrees, nor that he actually is. I'm making the assumption you're not talking about yourself as a confirmed townie from the perspective you put it, especially as others would not be able to know that.
Lynch = No flip. Shot person = Flip.
Scum will never shoot their own buddy in this setup. Thus if the scum is lynched, we won't be able to know and just see town dying and go into possible panic due to misreading the situation as the worst possible scenario.
Why is scum getting lynched a bad thing? If we lynch you and you shoot Marv, you flip yourself as mafia. If you shoot someone who is on the possible scum list, we get rid of two borderline players. Either way a scum dies and that is good for the town. Because scum will never shoot scum. If you lynch scum that shoots a townie, you can't be sure if that player is actually scum, or if it's a townie taking revenge/trying to be a hero/whatever other possibilities there are. Let's go with the assumption that you lynch me and I shoot marv. I know I'm town. Let's assume marv is town also. Just because I shoot him, even if most players consider him to be town, does not make me scum. I can see why you're trying to implicate that, but you have to understand that is not necessarily the case as townies have been known to go rogue and make their own decisions at times. My point is, why would you leave it up to guessing when you can take the sure way out? Unfortunately I am finding it harder and harder to believe you are thinking about the setup from a townie perspective. Town objective- Kill three mafia Mafia objective- Have a townie lynch another townie two times. As a townie, all I care about is if a mafia is dead or not. Whether or not the mafia is flipped doesn't really matter to me. Artanis flipped red but really, who cares? He was probably the most obvious day 1 bus target you can get. Connections are not alignment indicative. By lynching scummy players I have multiple chances to hit a scum in a cycle. I can either get them killed at the lynch, or if I am wrong, the player may be able to redeem himself by shooting a scum. If I lynch a scum, then we have accomplished what we need to do. If I am 'sure' that someone is scum I should lynch him, because even if I am wrong, we still have a chance that a scum will die. If I lynched a townie and he hits my target and flips green, well I just killed two townies
As a mafia I try to orchestrate a situation in which we can have a townie lynch another townie. And this is exactly what you are doing. You are trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to kill me (which I know is a townie)
My point is, there are scenarios where it is extremely uncertain to claim someone to be scum based on their shot when there is no flip. If town players act like it's a confirmed scum when it may not be, it may lead into misjudgements that can possibly cost us the game. The thing which you refuse to see is that a townie will always die in these lynches.
Trying to argue about the order is not relevant. Let's say we have player X (assumed townie) and player Y (assumed scum) and we have no flip.
X shoots Y that flips scum -> X is (was) obviously town)
X shoots Y that flips town -> X could be either alignment
Let's assume Y is scum and is lynched first.
Y shoots X that flips town -> Y could be either alignment.
As you can see, by lynching scum first we can never be certain of the lynched player's alignment. By lynching town first, there is a chance of ensuring the alignments of both players, which is always better. More information is always better. There is no downside.
Even though I find lynching a townie and having that town player shoot the correct play, does not mean I am pushing for a mafia agenda as you are claiming me to do. For me, you are one of the scummiest players right now. All your arguments for me being mafia are based on the fact that you are town. This is something I cannot be sure of as a town player. Which is a point you have refused to consider at all, you would know this if you truly were town.
The fact also remains that I have certainly not been pressuring for your death hard by any means. As I already told earlier, I merely answered my opinion to the situation as asked of me.
Now ask yourself, am I mafia because I am suspecting you to be mafia, or is there something about your play that could be improved upon to make other town players trust in you, if you truly are one?
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Why do people repeat themselves and hope for a different response?
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On February 07 2014 08:39 Holyflare wrote:Is a thought process a town only trend? Show nested quote +And since this is what you seem to want, I'll give it a go.
Who do you want to keep alive until lategame?
Who do you want to be lynched and why?
Who do you want to be shot and why? this is not what i meant, you don't really get thoughts from these questions -.- I want DP and me alive at end game at least. I am pretty confident dp is town. I do not know about lynches or shots yet. I have people I think are scummy (lsb to an extent based on what i've said although i liked iamp at the start and i liked lsb's scenario thing (that he wanted him and marv at the end so will probably unvote him soon), you most definitely and wave although will need to read these people some more to get firm grasps on things, not read marv so much but his response to the shitting up the thread thing i liked and that was my only qualm with him at that point)
You call me down for not having "reads". And what if this bullshit of yours? Hardly any more "thought process" than what I posted. I can't believe you're serious about asking me those questions earlier and this is how you reply to me? Also, what does keeping your vote on a player that you don't want it to be on do? Why not just take it off now? I could just as well call this post of yours fluffy bullshit as you are calling down upon everything I post.
Now how about you think about the things you've said to me, and reflect upon your own play. Then get serious about sharing this thought process of yours, or at least not undermining the effort of others.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On February 07 2014 08:55 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:39 Holyflare wrote:Is a thought process a town only trend? And since this is what you seem to want, I'll give it a go.
Who do you want to keep alive until lategame?
Who do you want to be lynched and why?
Who do you want to be shot and why? this is not what i meant, you don't really get thoughts from these questions -.- I want DP and me alive at end game at least. I am pretty confident dp is town. I do not know about lynches or shots yet. I have people I think are scummy (lsb to an extent based on what i've said although i liked iamp at the start and i liked lsb's scenario thing (that he wanted him and marv at the end so will probably unvote him soon), you most definitely and wave although will need to read these people some more to get firm grasps on things, not read marv so much but his response to the shitting up the thread thing i liked and that was my only qualm with him at that point) You call me down for not having "reads". And what if this bullshit of yours? Hardly any more "thought process" than what I posted. I can't believe you're serious about asking me those questions earlier and this is how you reply to me? Also, what does keeping your vote on a player that you don't want it to be on do? Why not just take it off now? I could just as well call this post of yours fluffy bullshit as you are calling down upon everything I post. Now how about you think about the things you've said to me, and reflect upon your own play. Then get serious about sharing this thought process of yours, or at least not undermining the effort of others.
and this is why you fell into MY trap. I have poured out reason upon reason for all of my votes this entire game, this just shows you have not read
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@Wave: I see your point about the control. You're certainly correct in that, a majority of townies deciding the lynch as opposed to a single person taking the shot is better in that sense. The upside of this plan really comes down to whether or not you can trust a town player that gets lynched to take the shot as agreed upon or not. If not, then I admit that trying to lynch the assumed scum player might be a better play.
@LSB: In my first post I say you are the person I would like shot right now. That means you are the likeliest person in my books to flip scum. That does not mean I am sure that you are scum. Your pointing out of a false contradiction is thus clearly a lie. I told you several times I am not to rush things, I merely replied Wave to his questions, but you keep ignoring this point over and over again.
In my first post I do say that I would prefer marv or holy to be lynched in that case. I do not say that I mind taking the shot myself at all, which is how you are trying to misrepresent it for others right now. I am perfectly fine with taking the shot myself as well. The thing is, I'm not afraid to stay in game for more scumhunting either. If I feel confident I will be able to find the remaining scum, why shouldn't I leave the shot for a town player that I am unsure of? They might even end up being scum, and a scum lynch is exactly what you wanted, is it not?
Now, would you like to tell me why you are intentionally trying to twist my words all the time?
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On February 07 2014 08:57 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:55 Cephiro wrote:On February 07 2014 08:39 Holyflare wrote:Is a thought process a town only trend? And since this is what you seem to want, I'll give it a go.
Who do you want to keep alive until lategame?
Who do you want to be lynched and why?
Who do you want to be shot and why? this is not what i meant, you don't really get thoughts from these questions -.- I want DP and me alive at end game at least. I am pretty confident dp is town. I do not know about lynches or shots yet. I have people I think are scummy (lsb to an extent based on what i've said although i liked iamp at the start and i liked lsb's scenario thing (that he wanted him and marv at the end so will probably unvote him soon), you most definitely and wave although will need to read these people some more to get firm grasps on things, not read marv so much but his response to the shitting up the thread thing i liked and that was my only qualm with him at that point) You call me down for not having "reads". And what if this bullshit of yours? Hardly any more "thought process" than what I posted. I can't believe you're serious about asking me those questions earlier and this is how you reply to me? Also, what does keeping your vote on a player that you don't want it to be on do? Why not just take it off now? I could just as well call this post of yours fluffy bullshit as you are calling down upon everything I post. Now how about you think about the things you've said to me, and reflect upon your own play. Then get serious about sharing this thought process of yours, or at least not undermining the effort of others. and this is why you fell into MY trap. I have poured out reason upon reason for all of my votes this entire game, this just shows you have not read
.... You're a joke, Holyflare. I know you have better posts, however that is the worst excuse ever for not replying me properly. Why would you not reply properly to a person that you want to step up their game? At the moment you are just constantly calling my play bad, replying with even worse, and then going "LULZ, IT WAS A TRAP, I PLAYED GOOD EARLIER AND SINCE YOU CALL ME BAD NOW YOU MUST NOT HAVE READ THE THREAD".
Yeah, I'm just going to ignore you. That's just fucking bad play.
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I personally think there is too much martyring 'for the sake of the setup' in this game.
People should be playing to lynch scum. That's basically it.
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On February 07 2014 08:33 WaveofShadow wrote:Where dem other power players at lately? DP it's not your birthday anymore, come back  (Though I loved that gif post)
Just got up and reading the thread now,
Glad you liked that gif post.
I was pretty upset that no one commented on how awesome it was. :D
from a cursory glance though rayn is like super super townie because he gives zero fucks about dieing.
he wanted to lynch promethelax who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town, and actually pushed for his hammer.
He wants to lynch marv who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town.
Like it just makes zero sense to suicide in that way as scum. ESPECIALLY because artanis was scum and was guaranteed to get killed at some point.
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@Wave: What do you currently think of the way LSB & Holyflare are currently pushing me / undermining my play / whatever you want to call it?
(I won't deny I haven't been the best contributer, but I don't see how the last few pages of discussion from me have not shown proper effort.)
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EBWOP @DP: That gif post was amazing. 
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 07 2014 09:07 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:33 WaveofShadow wrote:Where dem other power players at lately? DP it's not your birthday anymore, come back (Though I loved that gif post) Just got up and reading the thread now, Glad you liked that gif post. I was pretty upset that no one commented on how awesome it was. :D from a cursory glance though rayn is like super super townie because he gives zero fucks about dieing. he wanted to lynch promethelax who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town, and actually pushed for his hammer. He wants to lynch marv who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town. Like it just makes zero sense to suicide in that way as scum. ESPECIALLY because artanis was scum and was guaranteed to get killed at some point.
you don't know rayn at all, do you?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 07 2014 09:05 WaveofShadow wrote:
I personally think there is too much martyring 'for the sake of the setup' in this game.
People should be playing to lynch scum. That's basically it.
yeah except no.
all the posts on the last couple of pages are just piffle paffle.
Let's be lynching some marv.
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@marv: Same question to you as to WoS. What do you think about the way LSB & Holyflare are replying to everything I post?
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ew this cephiro push the last few pages is weird.
Wave you said cephiro was townie based on 'feels' has your read on ceph changed now that you agree with what LSB is sayinG?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I'm not really sure, I haven't read it properly.
If I were to guess, probably LSB is annoyed at you calling him scum (did you do that?) and thinks you're pushing bad ideas.
Holy is either super lazy/uninterested town or mafia, which explains whatever he's doing.
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On February 07 2014 09:07 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:33 WaveofShadow wrote:Where dem other power players at lately? DP it's not your birthday anymore, come back (Though I loved that gif post) Just got up and reading the thread now, Glad you liked that gif post. I was pretty upset that no one commented on how awesome it was. :D from a cursory glance though rayn is like super super townie because he gives zero fucks about dieing. he wanted to lynch promethelax who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town, and actually pushed for his hammer. He wants to lynch marv who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town. Like it just makes zero sense to suicide in that way as scum. ESPECIALLY because artanis was scum and was guaranteed to get killed at some point.
I don't think giving zero fucks about dying is a towntell, especially in this setup.
And why is marv doing the same thing not indicative to you in that case?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
DP, your main scumread is offering himself up to be lynched after a mafia died yesterday
please vote for him toute de suite
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.quickmeme.com/img/8a/8a483c373e04b23537839e9f9d07df5b1d7d382235269c00a669fa8387612ada.jpg)
