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On February 07 2014 07:56 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:44 Cephiro wrote:On February 07 2014 06:55 Holyflare wrote:
cephiro has been on voice chat all day by the way, has no investment in this game and all his reads = nothing When I play voice, I play voice. -_- I've been there for 2 hours or so when I played games. Problem? My problem is how you have contributed nothing and maintain that you are "changing your playstyle" when all i see is you doing nothing and if you are making a plan/trap then you haven't changed your playstyle at all so that would also be a waste of time.
And where I have claimed I am making a plan / trap? There are a few things one could try in a setup like this, but not really worth it, especially given the players around currently. I like how focused you are on my claim of changing my playstyle. I told why I am playing differently once, yet you keep going on about it like I would've been bringing it up all the time, which is absolutely not the case.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On February 07 2014 07:59 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:56 Holyflare wrote:On February 07 2014 07:44 Cephiro wrote:On February 07 2014 06:55 Holyflare wrote:
cephiro has been on voice chat all day by the way, has no investment in this game and all his reads = nothing When I play voice, I play voice. -_- I've been there for 2 hours or so when I played games. Problem? My problem is how you have contributed nothing and maintain that you are "changing your playstyle" when all i see is you doing nothing and if you are making a plan/trap then you haven't changed your playstyle at all so that would also be a waste of time. And where I have claimed I am making a plan / trap? There are a few things one could try in a setup like this, but not really worth it, especially given the players around currently. I like how focused you are on my claim of changing my playstyle. I told why I am playing differently once, yet you keep going on about it like I would've been bringing it up all the time, which is absolutely not the case.
wtf nonsense are you spouting
you
have
no
reads
you
haven't
helped
us
lynch
scum
you
lurk
like
crazy
the only conclusion i can come to is that you don't care about the game OR are making a plan, if you aren't making a plan then you don't care about the game
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
if you don't provide these things we can't come to real conclusions about your alignment so you will always be an outlier to all of us and that is a mistake to bring to end game
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... Maybe you should read my last post on last page again, Sir NoReads.
Oh gee, I didn't vote for Artanis before you rushed things and managed to succeed. That's great. Does that make me scum? No.
If I didn't care about the game, I wouldn't
1) Originally have signed up for this game
2) Be posting right now
3) Answering your and other players questions
4) Sharing my thoughts
Do you have anything more useful to say?
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
that's not a read that's saying "lsb is doing the wrong policy", why would scum be more likely to do that than town? What information do we gather if lsb is scum, what if he's town?
answering questions doesn't mean anything because anyone has a brain and can respond to QUESTIONS, you should be giving us questions and stuff for us to respond TO
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
like... we didn't even vote for artanis? we voted for promethelax and HE shot artanis
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On February 07 2014 08:09 Holyflare wrote:
that's not a read that's saying "lsb is doing the wrong policy", why would scum be more likely to do that than town? What information do we gather if lsb is scum, what if he's town?
answering questions doesn't mean anything because anyone has a brain and can respond to QUESTIONS, you should be giving us questions and stuff for us to respond TO
I said my thoughts about why I think LSB is scummy to me. If that's not a read in your opinion, that's your problem. Who are you to classify what is a read and what is not? If there's a specific format your after, then say because I'm not gonna play guessing games.
Your last paragraph is obviously just just filler crap. How does the situation change vice versa then? Anyone answering my questions doesn't mean anything because anyone can have a brain and respond? Thus making asking questions from anyone pointless, is what you're saying.
Now, rather than try and convince others of my uselessness, how about you actually ask me if you've got something specific you want to know instead of blabbering how bad everything I say. If there isn't, do something more useful, I'm sure everyone got your point by now,
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On February 07 2014 07:57 Cephiro wrote:
Yush Wave, just got that far in the thread. At the moment it would probably be Holy (pushing me for out-of-game reasons too, wut?), or LSB (lots of stuff that doesn't make enough sense).
Like what on earth are these "confirmed" townies he speaks of? All his possible endgame scenarios include one. That alone is scummy as hell, pointing out several possible endgame options yet leaving out the more likely ones. He also speaks of suiciding being counterproductive. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't always aim to lynch a townie.
??? What are you talking about?
I covered all possible scenarios that could occur starting tomorrow. What other end game scenarios could occur?
Lynch = No flip. Shot person = Flip.
Scum will never shoot their own buddy in this setup. Thus if the scum is lynched, we won't be able to know and just see town dying and go into possible panic due to misreading the situation as the worst possible scenario.
Why is scum getting lynched a bad thing? If we lynch you and you shoot Marv, you flip yourself as mafia. If you shoot someone who is on the possible scum list, we get rid of two borderline players. Either way a scum dies and that is good for the town.
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On February 07 2014 08:14 Holyflare wrote:
like... we didn't even vote for artanis? we voted for promethelax and HE shot artanis
I only claimed I didn't vote for artanis, although I can see how you drew the misconclusion from my statement.
This is what I mean by being tired of your nitpicking. Anyone with this famous brain can see the point of what I said, yet you consider the most important thing to draw a conclusion of my thoughts which I didn't even say. Sigh.
In case you didn't get it yet:
I was not on the "shoot artanis/lynch prome"-campaign. If it was up to me, I would've preferred someone else than Prome take a shot, but it's useless to go on about something that cannot be changed. Town managed to get a scum killed without me being involved in pushing said person for death. That's good. I wasn't contributing in it, that's bad. Not like all townies are always on every scum lynch. I was unsure about my reads, which is why I would've preferred more time. It wasn't needed for the rest of the town. Do you really want to say I'm scum based on that solely?
And since this is what you seem to want, I'll give it a go.
Who do you want to keep alive until lategame?
Who do you want to be lynched and why?
Who do you want to be shot and why?
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
If someone asked me specific questions which led to me to believe you were asking questions to form opinions and make assumptions and reads on based on my responses and then they demonstrated that later on in the thread, then that is a towny mindset. If someone sits back and only responds to questions, they look a lot worse because they aren't showing their thought processes or looking like they want to solve the game (what you are doing).
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I am deeply concerned about Cephiro trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to get me shot. I know that I am a townie, so this falls under my "worst case scenario of townie shooting townie" argument.
This is incredibly different from Marv/HF who are both asking people to lynch them so they can pull the trigger themselves. Unless they are bluffing (which applies more to HF than Marv) mafia should never offer themselves as a sacrifice.
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On February 07 2014 08:21 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:57 Cephiro wrote:
Yush Wave, just got that far in the thread. At the moment it would probably be Holy (pushing me for out-of-game reasons too, wut?), or LSB (lots of stuff that doesn't make enough sense).
Like what on earth are these "confirmed" townies he speaks of? All his possible endgame scenarios include one. That alone is scummy as hell, pointing out several possible endgame options yet leaving out the more likely ones. He also speaks of suiciding being counterproductive. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't always aim to lynch a townie. ??? What are you talking about? I covered all possible scenarios that could occur starting tomorrow. What other end game scenarios could occur? There is no such thing as confirmed town in this game for an alive player. Just because you think marv is town doesn't mean everyone else agrees, nor that he actually is. I'm making the assumption you're not talking about yourself as a confirmed townie from the perspective you put it, especially as others would not be able to know that. Show nested quote +
Lynch = No flip. Shot person = Flip.
Scum will never shoot their own buddy in this setup. Thus if the scum is lynched, we won't be able to know and just see town dying and go into possible panic due to misreading the situation as the worst possible scenario.
Why is scum getting lynched a bad thing? If we lynch you and you shoot Marv, you flip yourself as mafia. If you shoot someone who is on the possible scum list, we get rid of two borderline players. Either way a scum dies and that is good for the town.
Because scum will never shoot scum. If you lynch scum that shoots a townie, you can't be sure if that player is actually scum, or if it's a townie taking revenge/trying to be a hero/whatever other possibilities there are.
Let's go with the assumption that you lynch me and I shoot marv. I know I'm town. Let's assume marv is town also. Just because I shoot him, even if most players consider him to be town, does not make me scum. I can see why you're trying to implicate that, but you have to understand that is not necessarily the case as townies have been known to go rogue and make their own decisions at times.
My point is, why would you leave it up to guessing when you can take the sure way out?
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On February 07 2014 08:28 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:21 LSB wrote:On February 07 2014 07:57 Cephiro wrote:
Yush Wave, just got that far in the thread. At the moment it would probably be Holy (pushing me for out-of-game reasons too, wut?), or LSB (lots of stuff that doesn't make enough sense).
Like what on earth are these "confirmed" townies he speaks of? All his possible endgame scenarios include one. That alone is scummy as hell, pointing out several possible endgame options yet leaving out the more likely ones. He also speaks of suiciding being counterproductive. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't always aim to lynch a townie. ??? What are you talking about? I covered all possible scenarios that could occur starting tomorrow. What other end game scenarios could occur? There is no such thing as confirmed town in this game for an alive player. Just because you think marv is town doesn't mean everyone else agrees, nor that he actually is. I'm making the assumption you're not talking about yourself as a confirmed townie from the perspective you put it, especially as others would not be able to know that.
Lynch = No flip. Shot person = Flip.
Scum will never shoot their own buddy in this setup. Thus if the scum is lynched, we won't be able to know and just see town dying and go into possible panic due to misreading the situation as the worst possible scenario.
Why is scum getting lynched a bad thing? If we lynch you and you shoot Marv, you flip yourself as mafia. If you shoot someone who is on the possible scum list, we get rid of two borderline players. Either way a scum dies and that is good for the town. Because scum will never shoot scum. If you lynch scum that shoots a townie, you can't be sure if that player is actually scum, or if it's a townie taking revenge/trying to be a hero/whatever other possibilities there are.Let's go with the assumption that you lynch me and I shoot marv. I know I'm town. Let's assume marv is town also. Just because I shoot him, even if most players consider him to be town, does not make me scum. I can see why you're trying to implicate that, but you have to understand that is not necessarily the case as townies have been known to go rogue and make their own decisions at times. My point is, why would you leave it up to guessing when you can take the sure way out?
Quick question.
With 2 (or less but not really) scum remaining, why does the bolded matter?
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On February 07 2014 08:23 Holyflare wrote:
If someone asked me specific questions which led to me to believe you were asking questions to form opinions and make assumptions and reads on based on my responses and then they demonstrated that later on in the thread, then that is a towny mindset. If someone sits back and only responds to questions, they look a lot worse because they aren't showing their thought processes or looking like they want to solve the game (what you are doing).
Except that I am constantly posting my thought processes when around.
Do you think I'm here to talk just for fun? I explained more than enough times why I'm not pushing someone against the wall and threatening them with a knife. If you still don't get that, then too bad, I'm not going to bother explaining it any further.
For someone that was so eager to get me asking, I find it amusing how you are dodging my questions.
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Where dem other power players at lately?
DP it's not your birthday anymore, come back 
(Though I loved that gif post)
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On February 07 2014 08:25 LSB wrote:
I am deeply concerned about Cephiro trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to get me shot. I know that I am a townie, so this falls under my "worst case scenario of townie shooting townie" argument.
This is incredibly different from Marv/HF who are both asking people to lynch them so they can pull the trigger themselves. Unless they are bluffing (which applies more to HF than Marv) mafia should never offer themselves as a sacrifice.
1) I have merely pointed out my suspicions on you and referred to you as my preferred lynch target since I was asked of that specific question.
2) If you are scum, there is no reason for scum to shoot you. I am not in need of tempting another townie to get to shoot you, I am just fine doing it myself.
I figure it would be best to talk cooperatively among town who they want to keep around for lategame to ensure the best possibilities of winning. As you might have noticed, I am in no rush to make decisions about who to lynch or who to shoot this cycle, neither was I during last cycle.
This is also a reason why I'm sad that Prome was the one to take the shot, since I would have preferred him to stay alive later in the game, and had an more unsure read take the shot.
@Wave: It's suboptimal play. Why guess if we can have facts? Certainly it might not even become a deciding factor of any sorts, but why take the risk? Why not go for the guaranteed information?
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On February 07 2014 08:22 Cephiro wrote:
Who do you want to keep alive until lategame?
Who do you want to be lynched and why?
Who do you want to be shot and why?
Argument Level: Holyflare
I know you're on voice/teamspeak, and I know you've read my posts to see that I asked this of you. This is what you wanted, why are you not responding to my questions?
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On February 07 2014 08:28 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:21 LSB wrote:On February 07 2014 07:57 Cephiro wrote:
Yush Wave, just got that far in the thread. At the moment it would probably be Holy (pushing me for out-of-game reasons too, wut?), or LSB (lots of stuff that doesn't make enough sense).
Like what on earth are these "confirmed" townies he speaks of? All his possible endgame scenarios include one. That alone is scummy as hell, pointing out several possible endgame options yet leaving out the more likely ones. He also speaks of suiciding being counterproductive. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't always aim to lynch a townie. ??? What are you talking about? I covered all possible scenarios that could occur starting tomorrow. What other end game scenarios could occur? There is no such thing as confirmed town in this game for an alive player. Just because you think marv is town doesn't mean everyone else agrees, nor that he actually is. I'm making the assumption you're not talking about yourself as a confirmed townie from the perspective you put it, especially as others would not be able to know that.
Lynch = No flip. Shot person = Flip.
Scum will never shoot their own buddy in this setup. Thus if the scum is lynched, we won't be able to know and just see town dying and go into possible panic due to misreading the situation as the worst possible scenario.
Why is scum getting lynched a bad thing? If we lynch you and you shoot Marv, you flip yourself as mafia. If you shoot someone who is on the possible scum list, we get rid of two borderline players. Either way a scum dies and that is good for the town. Because scum will never shoot scum. If you lynch scum that shoots a townie, you can't be sure if that player is actually scum, or if it's a townie taking revenge/trying to be a hero/whatever other possibilities there are. Let's go with the assumption that you lynch me and I shoot marv. I know I'm town. Let's assume marv is town also. Just because I shoot him, even if most players consider him to be town, does not make me scum. I can see why you're trying to implicate that, but you have to understand that is not necessarily the case as townies have been known to go rogue and make their own decisions at times. My point is, why would you leave it up to guessing when you can take the sure way out?
Unfortunately I am finding it harder and harder to believe you are thinking about the setup from a townie perspective.
Town objective- Kill three mafia
Mafia objective- Have a townie lynch another townie two times.
As a townie, all I care about is if a mafia is dead or not. Whether or not the mafia is flipped doesn't really matter to me. Artanis flipped red but really, who cares? He was probably the most obvious day 1 bus target you can get. Connections are not alignment indicative.
By lynching scummy players I have multiple chances to hit a scum in a cycle. I can either get them killed at the lynch, or if I am wrong, the player may be able to redeem himself by shooting a scum. If I lynch a scum, then we have accomplished what we need to do.
If I am 'sure' that someone is scum I should lynch him, because even if I am wrong, we still have a chance that a scum will die. If I lynched a townie and he hits my target and flips green, well I just killed two townies
As a mafia I try to orchestrate a situation in which we can have a townie lynch another townie.
And this is exactly what you are doing. You are trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to kill me (which I know is a townie)
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Is a thought process a town only trend?
And since this is what you seem to want, I'll give it a go.
Who do you want to keep alive until lategame?
Who do you want to be lynched and why?
Who do you want to be shot and why?
this is not what i meant, you don't really get thoughts from these questions -.-
I want DP and me alive at end game at least. I am pretty confident dp is town.
I do not know about lynches or shots yet. I have people I think are scummy (lsb to an extent based on what i've said although i liked iamp at the start and i liked lsb's scenario thing (that he wanted him and marv at the end so will probably unvote him soon), you most definitely and wave although will need to read these people some more to get firm grasps on things, not read marv so much but his response to the shitting up the thread thing i liked and that was my only qualm with him at that point)
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On February 07 2014 08:36 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:25 LSB wrote:
I am deeply concerned about Cephiro trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to get me shot. I know that I am a townie, so this falls under my "worst case scenario of townie shooting townie" argument.
This is incredibly different from Marv/HF who are both asking people to lynch them so they can pull the trigger themselves. Unless they are bluffing (which applies more to HF than Marv) mafia should never offer themselves as a sacrifice. 1) I have merely pointed out my suspicions on you and referred to you as my preferred lynch target since I was asked of that specific question. 2) If you are scum, there is no reason for scum to shoot you. I am not in need of tempting another townie to get to shoot you, I am just fine doing it myself. I figure it would be best to talk cooperatively among town who they want to keep around for lategame to ensure the best possibilities of winning. As you might have noticed, I am in no rush to make decisions about who to lynch or who to shoot this cycle, neither was I during last cycle. This is also a reason why I'm sad that Prome was the one to take the shot, since I would have preferred him to stay alive later in the game, and had an more unsure read take the shot.
@Wave: It's suboptimal play. Why guess if we can have facts? Certainly it might not even become a deciding factor of any sorts, but why take the risk? Why not go for the guaranteed information?
Disagree.
We have direct control over a lynch, not who gets shot. The shooters can technically do whatever they want despite what they may say, and they may or may not mean they're scum. If we lynch two people who then shoot town, and then game doesn't end either way, then we know one of them was scum---the only thing that the 'guaranteed' information matters is for association cases, which I have very little faith in lately.
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EPT
