On May 02 2010 19:31 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +So basically, since I didn't get my role (not roleblocker or inventor, but something pretty important), someone else took it.
Show nested quote +On May 02 2010 18:11 Korynne wrote:
If there are no better candidates at the end of the day I propose an alignment check on either BM or Foolishness, and a role check on me.
Actually I'm not sure which one is better(which check to use on who)... I really need to sleep. xD
Regarding your comment about johnnyspazz, it just seems to mean that Incognito didn't teach him very well. xP
Why would we do a role check on you, when in your previous post you said you didn't get the role you wanted? I took this to mean that you did not get a role at all, but maybe I'm misunderstanding it. It seems like role checking you would be a waste for now, since you're basically claiming Vanilla.
But, Korynne knows one of either BM or Foolishness has the powerful role she tried to take. Assuming you followed Qatol's plan, that would mean you tried to take compulsive Vig and didn't get it(the other 'important role' in my mind would be day vig). My guess at the moment would be BM with inventor, Foolishness with CompVig, and Korynne with nothing.
The real question is, is it in our best interest to have the top few on the list roleclaim(if one of them tried to lie, it's possible Korynne would know right off), or does it make sense to see what happens night one and then decide. So if anti-town inventions start getting made, or 2 obvious townies get killed, we then call for a roleclaim. Whether we roleclaim or not, I think it makes sense to have our role checks and alignment checks focused on BM and Foolishness. Inventor and CompVig are going to have a huge impact on this game, so we need to know who they are, and what alignment they are.
Absolutely agreed. If anything suspicious starts happening, then we need to get these people to roleclaim.
On May 02 2010 19:57 Radfield wrote:
hmm, just remembered that CompVig can't shoot until night two, so that role will effectively stay hidden until that point.
Qatol mentioned earlier that we should vote on who the Comp Vig kills. This seems like a great plan, and if anyone has any objections then bring them out. If the role landed in townie hands, it allows us to come to a decision as a group, and effectively double lynch each day. It also takes the risk away of a townie with poor judgment shooting up the town.
If the role is in mafia hands, either they play along(which is great) or they don't. If they don't play along, we immediately know that CompVig = Mafia. Since we know the CompVig is high up on the draft list, we can quickly zero in on a mafia.
So no matter who has the CompVig, we should be able to control it by voting in thread for who gets killed. Any town player would play along(given it would be extremely anti-town to not) and the mafia either go along or get quickly weeded out.
So lets add a ##CompVig: Ace## to when we vote(starting on Day 2).
Again if anyone has objections to this lets hear it. The big fuckup I can see is if the CompVig somehow slipped down the list into mafia hands, but I think this unlikely.
Your plan for voting on CompVig kills is solid, except I think we should be doing it during the night. Often the lynch gives information. I'd rather make that kill when I'm as informed as possible. As you said earlier, Korynne probably tried to take CompVig. It was the role we assigned to her. I would be very surprised if she tried to take anything else. This means that CompVig is somewhere in the first 2 roles. I'm more worried that Inventor slipped.
On May 02 2010 22:07 Zona wrote:
My stance on any and all claiming at this point on the game:
Right now my view is that the most important roles for town to protect (if they are indeed in town hands) are inventor, tracker, and to a lesser extent, alignment cop. Compulsive vig in the hands of a town member who follows our plan in theory is a town advantage, by having a pseudo-double lynch every day, but can still speed things more quickly to an endgame situation, especially if town's judgement is poor.
Our doctors are not necessarily reliable and might even worry about being the weak variant, so it's best to give our investigators another layer of protection by letting them stay in obscurity and harder for mafia and the serial killer to identify. Every public claim from an honest town member removes a person from the list that mafia needs to consider when trying to pick off the investigators - so I am against any and all public claims. But Korynne's already given out some information that can't be taken back, we may or may not want to resolve this then suppress all further claims.
Also - every keep Qatol's number breakdown post in mind when we get to the late game.
I have a slightly different stance: Do not claim unless you have something to contribute. My claim told us that the copycat is likely in mafia hands (or at least a townie working against the town). Korynne's claim was important too because it told us that someone in the first 2 players is playing against the town. Just giving us your role isn't important or useful. You need to be able to give the town important information by roleclaiming.
On May 03 2010 05:11 JeeJee wrote:
so here's the thing
unless mafia got the top 4 spots, they have a pretty good idea of who in town holds the powerful roles and will probably choose to target them over, say, citizen. otoh, if people aren't stupid, some of the ones closer to the top hopefully got bulletproof or mm to counteract this
also note, so far in this thread, the following people have claimed they don't have a role:
korynne - important role (not inv or rb) above him
jonny - silly
caller - silly
falcynn - silly
qatol - copy above him
opz - comp vig above him
i'm wondering why y'all revealed this info, but i imagine some of you are lying as docs or something which also sets up nice mindgames. if you're all telling the truth though then /facepalm
i won't be claiming my role or whether i got one, i suggest more people don't either.
the compulsive vig votes are a great idea, if you have an ounce of sense you should agree, so if someone has a problem with this plan, speak up now (so we may lynch you hurr durr)
And still I'm wondering why you aren't contributing. People have already said that the roleclaims were stupid. Why are you just parroting these comments?
On May 03 2010 10:39 Foolishness wrote:
Which is great and all except we got to lynch someone right now. If Amnesia doesn't say anything he's getting my vote.
I've been through 2 pages and this is the first post back on topic. Why the heck hasn't anyone been voting?
Our final vote cout:
Johnnyspazz: 4
Qatol, Zona, Hobbes, citi.zen
Amnesia: 3
sidesprang, Foolishness, Caller
Non-Voters: 11
Bill Murray, Falcynn, Radfield, d3_crescentia, Korynne, johnnyspazz, JeeJee, Scamp, Opz, Amnesia, Darthienan
This is just pathetic. Where is everyone? Also, I find it odd that there was a late push to split the vote. Citi.zen coming out of NOWHERE to vote (and that's it - he didn't contribute at all after he showed up) is also pretty fishy.
On May 03 2010 14:21 johnnyspazz wrote:
i realize now that pointing out the people who have no abilities in the thread is very dumb because it gives the mafia a smaller list of targets to attack!
i was only thinking about confirming townies...crap
You realize this now? How does this confirm townies exactly? Garbage post that does nothing.
On May 03 2010 14:42 ~OpZ~ wrote:
It also gives the perfect opportunity for meds to just protect a smaller list of people. Inventor could claim, give someone from the top a veteran kit/bulletproof kit/nightlight to keep away the evil mafia away. Medicas can protect the other ones. We don't know who claimed Role Cop/ Alignment cop/meds...
We don't need the role I tried to pick, so me claiming shouldn't matter. Compulsive vig isn't really an epic role unless you are insanely lucky, or the town is insanely coordinated and good. So we should be good.
Alignment should check near top/Role cop should check near top. perhaps RC number 2, and alignment #1/3
Inventor could likely safely claim and coordinate atleast two protections. Seriously, hand out a vetkit/nightlight, and have a med protect him....If mafia hit a vet/bulletproof/protected target, they lose their nightkill...
Inventor shouldn't hide, and meds should protect him if mafia are likely to hit the top of the list.
We don't need the role you picked? Then why did you pick it? The town should need every role selected for one of 2 reasons: denying it from the mafia or it is useful to us.
On May 03 2010 18:57 Bill Murray wrote:
but assuming they are, they need to protect me, so i can be confirmed as a townie
On May 03 2010 19:43 Bill Murray wrote:
protect me medics, im releasing the news tomorrow.
in other news, radfield likely scum or talks at times that seem detracting and anti-town
Feel like explaining this one?
On May 03 2010 22:24 JeeJee wrote:
radfield is actually making very good points; unfortunately since he's talking to bill we won't see a sensible response.
keep in mind bill's reluctance to do anything useful as of yet..
question for ace: how does the invention naming system work? can i invent a gun and call it a dt kit? or what if it's a really ambiguous thing, i.e. a beer bottle that you can hit people over the head with to roleblock them ... will it be just called beer bottle or roleblock bottle or what?
basically who decides on the name and how relevant is it to the item's function?
Parroting again.
On May 04 2010 04:33 Bill Murray wrote:radfield, you are completely wrong here, and the fact that jeejee is all up on your jock makes me believe you all are TOTALLY not scum together.
Anyways, you think I'm doing this for the clues? fuck no.
If you are that dumb, you need to gtfo of my game son.
If you are seriously a town aligned player, though, you need to quit arguing with me and jump on this train to glory-land.
I'll explain myself to you, like I had to explain myself to someone younger than me earlier. I am not doing this because I think that we will get 1 damn clue out of it. I know we will, that's cool, whatever.
The reason I am doing this is because I am say
"medics, protect me, i'm calling my shot" I am TELLING the town what I'm doing BEFORE I do it. How is this not "pro-town"?
I'd like to highlight this, as it is a lot scummier than most noobs will imagine. Good players will pick up on posts such as this, though, as they are taking away from someone who is trying to lead the town to a victory. Furthermore, look into his shifting of the subject into "game-theory". That's also scummy behavior.
I know I'm not normally that good of a scum-hunter, and that you all have no reason to trust me yet, but i'll rectify that right now. I have just come from the other side of the fence. I have just been a mafia godfather. I know how they think right now moreso than I ever have in my life while playing as a town-aligned player in a mafia game. On top of that, i CAN and WILL organize the town. You all are free to join the town circle. Before someone is like "durrr we canst PM youz guyz", go read my role. Before someone is like "you could be lying!!!" go read my game as mafia... my ONE game in my ENTIRE life as mafia.
Radfield, JeeJee, If you don't think I'm trying to be helpful you are most likely
scum
I agree with Bill here. He's absolutely right on JeeJee. Now I'm just waiting for his post. This makes me feel a lot better about him. If any of you have read my analysis after Mini Mafia 2, this is an example of someone making a move into the spotlight. Now I want to see if he can stay clean while there. But you aren't allowed to move out of the spotlight again, Bill.
On May 04 2010 05:38 Bill Murray wrote:
Well, I have just been informed I would have to only give my newspaper to one person. I had considered this, and as a result I will be inventing someone else like a gun to give someone. I am not 100% sure what it will be yet.
Okay, Bill has just confirmed that he has taken inventor.
On May 04 2010 06:12 Bill Murray wrote:
it's a one time deal, radfield, it doesn't work like that. i just had that clarified. this is going to make creating a town circle a bit more difficult than I had previously planned. I have an idea, though, so I also am not going to be giving out armor or guns (right now) because I have no idea who is town. hope that makes sense to you as to why I would do that.
Too much focus on creating a town circle. Even if you manage to make one, it isn't a guarantee that it will work because they can be infiltrated or killed off. The whole reason I was advocating armor is because if you give it to the mafia, it doesn't help that much. The primary killing mechanism of the town is the lynch. The killing mechanism of the mafia is the night hit. While the mafia will not hit each other, so an armor to a mafia doesn't help, armor to an innocent is a big help. Please read this, Bill. It is very important that you understand.
On May 04 2010 06:50 Bill Murray wrote:
I have already decided what I'm going to do with my invention, and I'm going to be organizing a town circle that will go into effect for the 24 hours of Day 4
Too slow and not as good as just making armor. Bill, we don't need a town circle to win. We just need time. Armor does that.
On May 04 2010 07:25 Korynne wrote:
Bill seems pretty okay at the moment, at least appearing to be useful-ish? I definitely would appreciate someone checking out Foolishness' alignment due to my claim that someone took CompVig before me. =\
I think compvig is more of a problem than inventor. If we make an incorrect choice in the day there's no reason, if the mafia is compvig, for mafia not to follow through with the lynch. If we choose a mafia as the target for the compvig, they can either hit the mafia, or just hit a townie. If they hit a townie, we lynch Foolishness/BM (carefully of course, hopefully alignment checked or role checked). But then we still don't know who the real compvig is. In the meantime BM/Foolishness could have picked up another useful role like DayVig or JoaT or CopyCat or whatever.
So can we sort out this alignment issue for the two people ahead of me? (Of course, medics should still protect them until we know if they're mafia)
This is the conclusion I came down with too. Please tell me the tracker followed Foolishness. We need to know if he visited anyone last night. If he did, it is FAR more important to kill off a mafia compvig than it is to have a town-aligned tracker.
On May 04 2010 12:39 Ace wrote:Day 2
d3_crescentia (pro town Weak Doctor) has been found dead.
Caller(Vanilla Towny) has been found dead.The inventor has invented a Cell Phone Night 1.Voting Starts now. With 16 alive it is 9 to lynch. Day ends at 12 AM ET/1:00 KST or in ~24 hours from now.
2 things of note:
1. The invention of a cell phone. This does NOT confirm Bill Murray's innocence yet. There is still a mafia use for a cell phone. Cell phones are frequently used to detonate bombs. If we start seeing bombs given out, then the inventor (probably not Bill) is mafia. Otherwise, the inventor (Bill) is innocent.
2. The mafia/SK hit 2 of the quieter players as far as contributions go which is kinda strange to me. Also notice that they were among the largest groups of players. They were about the spot on the list I would have expected for anti-town players trying to kill strong town without being too worried about a medic. I think they don't want large groups of mostly-confirmed townies running around.
+ Show Spoiler [Bid list] +
1. Bill Murray - [17] [4]
2. Foolishness - [1] [1]
3. Korynne - [1] [5]
4. Falcynn [1] [5-20] or [4] [1] - hasn't claimed
5. [NyC]HoBbes - [4] [1]
6. ~Opz~ - [4] [14]
7. d3_crescentia - [4] [14]
8. Caller - [6] [1]
9. sidesprang - [6] [1]
10. Qatol - [6] [1]
11. JeeJee - [6] [1]
12. DarthThienAn - [8] [1]
13. johnnyspazz - [8] [4]
14. Amnesia [8] [4-20] or [10] [1] - hasn't claimed
15. Radfield - [10] [1]
16. Scamp - [10] [11]
17. Zona - [12] [1]
18. citi.zen - [12] [3]
Falcynn and Amnesia SERIOUSLY need to come forward with their numbers.
Groups:
+ Show Spoiler [Group 1] +
+ Show Spoiler [Group 2] +
Foolishness
Korynne
Falcynn
+ Show Spoiler [Group 3] +
Falcynn
Hobbes
Opz
d3_crescentia
+ Show Spoiler [Group 4] +
Caller
sidesprang
Qatol
JeeJee
+ Show Spoiler [Group 5] +
DarthThienAn
johnnyspazz
Amnesia
+ Show Spoiler [Group 6] +
+ Show Spoiler [Group 7] +
On May 04 2010 15:33 Bill Murray wrote:
I fucking gave d3_crescentia the cellphone. I know how he plays, and I knew he was good to give that to. I knew he was likely DT/Medic based upon his picking 8th.
Oh well, better luck next night.
And this is EXACTLY why you need to be giving out either meth bombs or bulletproof vests. You could have stopped d3 from dying or blown up a mafia/SK.
On May 04 2010 21:08 Radfield wrote:OK, no excuses for not voting today folks.
Looking through the thread, an obvious target has emerged. However, I'm assuming that no one has blatently lied so far about their role. Even if that's the case, we will quickly be able to find the liar. So for the moment I'm going to treat everyone's comments about themselves as FACTS.
Facts: d3 and caller are dead
Facts: Qatal, Korynne, Opz and possibly Falcynn(he's been a touch ambiguous) have no role
Facts: Bill Murray is the Inventor and therefore Foolishness is the CompVig
Facts: Someone took Copy Cat before Qatol, this person is likely mafia.
Facts: Hobbes has a "fun, fun role", probably not Copy Cat,
# Bill Murray - Inventor
# Foolishness - CompVig
# Korynne - VANILLA
# Falcynn - VANILLA
# [NyC]HoBbes - Fun Role(Not Copy Cat)
# ~Opz~ - VANILLA
# d3_crescentia - DEAD(Medic)
# Caller - DEAD(VANILLA)
# sidesprang - ?????Copy Cat?????????
# Qatol - VANILLA
Assuming these are all facts, we've just found a mafia! Of course, these are not facts, and someone could be lying. But this gives us a great place to start.
Lets assume we lynch Sidesprang, 1 of 2 things happen:
1. He is anti-town. HOORAY!
2. He is pro-town. WHOOPS
If he is pro-town, all of a sudden the finger has to be pointed elsewhere:
1. Qatol: He's lying about someone else claiming Copy Cat
2. Someone who claimed Vanilla is lying: Korynne, Opz or Falcynn
2a Both Korynne and Opz claimed they tried for CompVig(this situation needs to be analyzed closer) but it lends a tad of credibility.
2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it
3 Hobbes actually took Copy Cat and then posted as a "fun role" to allay suspicion. This seems least likely; being high up in the draft he had no need to take Copy Cat.
I think this is a great place to start. If I've made a mistake up to now someone please point it out.
So, with Sidesprang as a suspect, lets look at his posting history
Show nested quote +On May 02 2010 00:31 sidesprang wrote:
As i see no reason to not tell my number i picked 6 1(damn you qatol ). My reasoning is simple. Not to high not to low. Kinda trying to figure out what to pick, as since im so late a pick i kinda just want to get something, i dont get any of the really cool ones anyways.
As to guessing what numbers the mafia picked, and apply some logic behind it, i think it would problably be as hard as to get a succesfull day 1 lynch. Atleast untill we catch one of the mafias
Show nested quote +On May 03 2010 11:26 sidesprang wrote:
What we need to do is have a game plan.
Vote on who the compulsive vigilante should kill, forces a mafia CV to play on our terms or look scummy. A doctor can also block this kill if we feel its needed. Many ppl have supported this idea and there is no drawback in using it.
Decide what the inventor should invent, its hard to keep tabs on the inventor but that role is far to powerful to be left completely alone. And since the day post tells us what is invented we can figure out if he is lying. Bulletproof vests sounds awesome, our strength is numbers and reducing hits is a good thing. We should NOT talk about who should get the vests imo as that only makes the mafia not hit that guy.
As for who to lynch is there a vote thread or do we just write it like qatol did ? if so
## vote : Amnesia
if you check his post he made one post right after getting our alignment and one post right after getting our role where he said nothing of worth. Seems like he follows the game but won't say anything. Might not be too fishy but I don't know what else to go after at this point.
Hmm, only two posts of any substance, and only 4 posts the entire thread. Both posts read like scum if you ask me. First post has a lot of words but little substance. Second post is mainly regurgitated obvious pro-town stuff, with a vote for the most inactive person. Also, Amnesia does NOT look fishy, he looks inactive.
Now whether you are or are not Mafia Sidesprang, your actions and the claims of others paint you out to be one.
Once again, this is a starting point folks.
##Vote Sidesprang ##
Great logic. I fully support this. He hasn't contributed at all. And it is a definite starting place. It also fits with my theory about the night hits.
##Vote Sidesprang##
On May 04 2010 21:43 Radfield wrote:
Just remembered we need to vote on Comp Vig hits as well. We all know who the CV is, so please play along Foolishness. There's no point in hiding it anymore, if I can figure it out, anyone can. If you are NOT the CV Foolishness, you need to let us know, because that pegs Korynne as a liar. (Again, I'm running on the assumption that Bill is Inventor, which is highly likely at this point, and would be extremely risky for him to claim it if he's not)
Originally I was going to propose ~opz~ or Falycnn. As I thought they would be most likely to be lying about CopyCat if Sidespring flips green, but looking closer I don't think it likely that either are lying. I really believe that Sidesprang WILL flip red, and at this point I think if he flips green we hit Qatol. BUT, I don't think we should hit Qatol until we find out Sidesprang's alignment. Which means we shouldn't use our CompVig hit on Qatol.
Honestly, I don't think Qatol is mafia either at this point. If the Day Vig hit Sidesprang today, that would make this easier. If Sidesprang flips green, we start hitting the people who claimed VANILLA. Worse case we kill VANILLA townies, best case we hit mafia. If Sidesprang flips red, we celebrate and move on.
Obivously we don't want to waste our DayVig, but this seems like a decent time to use it. If people disagree please voice it. However, our DayVig is likely near the top of the list, which means they might not live long anyways. Hobbes, I think you're the DayVig, and I also think it likely you will be targeted soon. You're one of the few people at the top of the list who has a role. You are not the Inventor or CV so you won't get medic protection. Lastly, you claimed a 'fun, fun role' which makes you a mafia target. I'm kinda hoping you actually chose Meth Man and then posted 'fun, fun role' in an effort to get yourself hit by mafia. If so you're awesome. But if not, you need to use you're ability while you still can.
Please speak up people, I think my reasoning here is sound, but I'm open to other suggestions.
Another absolutely solid post. If the Day Vigi is out there, please shoot SideSprang. There is one hole though: you already did a breakdown of the roles for the top 10. We KNOW that only Hobbes could be the day vigi out of them if they are innocent. The day vigi could really be anywhere on the list.
On May 04 2010 23:19 Scamp wrote:
Personally, I'm wondering if there's a good reason not to lynch Foolishness right now.
How about we day vigi Sidesprang and then look at lynching Foolishness?
On May 04 2010 23:30 JeeJee wrote:now that we know this..
# Bill Murray inventor
# Foolishness comp vig
# Korynne VANILLA
# Falcynn VANILLA
# [NyC]HoBbes ROLE
# ~Opz~ VANILLA
# d3_crescentia MEDIC
# Caller VANILLA
# sidesprang ?
# Qatol VANILLA
let me add a piece of it as well
# JeeJee VANILLA
i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here
either that or hobbes is mafia
for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it.
then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here
so foolishness, who are you gonna hit tonight?
Why did you do this? Your roleclaim doesn't help anyone. And how exactly do you know that Hobbes isn't doing anything with his role?
On May 03 2010 05:11 JeeJee wrote:
so here's the thing
unless mafia got the top 4 spots, they have a pretty good idea of who in town holds the powerful roles and will probably choose to target them over, say, citizen. otoh, if people aren't stupid, some of the ones closer to the top hopefully got bulletproof or mm to counteract this
also note, so far in this thread, the following people have claimed they don't have a role:
korynne - important role (not inv or rb) above him
jonny - silly
caller - silly
falcynn - silly
qatol - copy above him
opz - comp vig above him
i'm wondering why y'all revealed this info, but i imagine some of you are lying as docs or something which also sets up nice mindgames. if you're all telling the truth though then /facepalm
i won't be claiming my role or whether i got one, i suggest more people don't either.
the compulsive vig votes are a great idea, if you have an ounce of sense you should agree, so if someone has a problem with this plan, speak up now (so we may lynch you hurr durr)
Something seem out of place here?
On May 04 2010 23:54 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 23:46 Radfield wrote:
This is all in addition to Jeejee's other somewhat shady posting that Bill Murray alluded to earlier. The only thing in JeeJee's favor right now is that he picked the same number as Sidesprang, which makes it unlikely for them to both be mafia. If Sidesprang flops green, then barring further info, I propose we lynch JeeJee as well. Just another reason to DayVig Sidesprang, so we can focus our CompVig shot better.
for the record, caller, sidesprang, qatol and myself numbers were the same
would be pretty friggin' stupid for mafia to do this, n'est pas?
I'm not sure about that. You claimed your numbers later than both myself and Darth. I wouldn't be surprised at all if you had actually picked [8] [1].
On May 05 2010 00:11 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 23:58 citi.zen wrote:
Ok, we have 4 vanilla role claimants + Hobbes + sidersprang, one of which lied if JeeJee is telling the truth.
We should lynch sidersprang, as discussed. I'd like to keep Qatol around. Hitting Hobbes is risky if he has a good role and is pro-town. Leaving us with Korynne, Falcynn and ~Opz~ to use the compulsive vigilante hit on.
I will vote to compulsive vig hit Korynne out of that group.
And no, I still don't like using he day vig. No reason to speed up the killing on poor information. Let's wait for the lynch flop and save the day vig hit for a time we have more info.
I agree in theory, except for if Hobbes is the DayVig. The medic is going to protect either BM or Foolishness, which leaves Hobbes hanging as an exceptionally juicy target, with his 'fun role'. Now with all the discussion around this, there is the possibiliy of the medic protecting hobbes, so the mafia might not hit him after all. Around and around we go....
I still think we should use the DayVig hit, it's very useful right now, and thats as good as we can ask. Either we get a mafia, or we hit a townie and have very good targets for our lynch + CompVig.
If we don't use the DayVig hit, what do we learn from hitting Korynne? If she flops vanilla town it means that Foolishness is for sure the CV. If she flops mafia with a special power(not CV) it means foolishness is almost certainly mafia. Because she would never claim to have tried to get CV without knowing for sure that the CV was taken in front of her.
BUT! It would be very unlikely for the mafia to double up numbers on 1, 1. And that's exactly what would have happened for Korynne and Foolishness to both be mafia. For this reason, I don't think Korynne is mafia, as the story doesn't quite fit.
I'd like to hear from Jeejee about his role, and hobbes confirming or denying, before deciding on the CompVig hit
So just drop a vest on Hobbes. We absolutely shouldn't be talking about who to compvig hit yet. We need to focus on the lynch/ potential day vigi hit first.
On May 05 2010 05:05 Zona wrote:
Radfield (and everyone else discussing things along the same lines as him) - I agree sidesprang's lack of posts are a detriment to his town and the 4 posts he has are fishy, and if we go with what Qatol has claimed, it's possible sidesprang has picked copy cat. But everything else you are doing - I don't like it. You say you are not in favor of outing all the roles. But as a consequence of your posts and actions, we now have a set of what are probably serious role claims from more than half the players in the game.
First of all - what does the mafia not know about the game? The mafia doesn't know who has what roles, and the mafia doesn't know who the serial killer is. So the town shouldn't help mafia figure out who has what roles - I've been saying this all game. So I've been saying that town members shouldn't claim their roles.
But you know what? If town members lie about their roles - that's good, too. This is the ONLY aspect in which I think it's good for town members to lie - every other type of lie by town members usually muddles the picture and is detrimental to the town, but lying about your role - the thing that mafia doesn't know and wants to know - that's useful for the town.
You are trying to pin down which of the people at Qatol's position in the draft order and above is lying about their role - but identifying liars (about roles) does NOT identify mafia! I reiterate - if you catch someone lying about almost everything else in the game, that might be a sign of mafia - but lying about your role is one thing town members likely SHOULD DO! I wish that a lot of the "vanilla" claims that have come out really are lies! But I have a bad feeling they aren't, due to the way things have played out.
In fact - your push for everyone to come clean with their role does NOT identify mafia (because liars about roles aren't necessarily mafia) but also make it clearer to the mafia who has what roles, if they can discern who is lying. I'm really unhappy with what's transpired. Especially now that one pro-town doctor has been killed, and the other doctor in unknown hands with unknown sanity, it's probably now a lot easier for the mafia and the serial killer to pick off the targets they choose.
(The only time a mass roleclaim is useful for town, in my opinion, is when the town is on the verge of losing and has no concrete information - then that's the time you expect honest roleclaims from every town member and hope to catch mafia and the serial killer lying. But this is a desperation move by the town, not something you should be doing mid game!)
I agree that the mass roleclaim isn't good. However, what's done is done. There shouldn't be any additional roleclaims, but the ones we have we need to make use of.
On May 05 2010 05:16 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 05:13 Zona wrote:
Bill Murray - I don't know what you're planning to do tonight - but you may want to consider citi.zen's suggestion that you put together alignment-only DT kits. I'm not sure what you were planning to do with a cell phone but it doesn't seem like it would be a tool that would confirm either you or whoever you gave it to, nor do I see how it would find scum. If your plan bears fruit on day 4 - keep in mind you might not survive that long, and perhaps by the time we get to that day the town is already in a desperate situation.
Please take what I say as a suggestion, and don't automatically think that someone is scummy because they don't agree with your plan. Perhaps sometimes town members can genuinely fail to see how your plan will lead them to victory, and perhaps they think that the plan they suggest offers a better chance of success.
you worry about you
i'll worry about me
No, if you're town-aligned, we WILL worry about you. You have the strongest role in the game. If you don't use it responsibly, it is a huge detriment to the town.
On May 05 2010 05:20 Bill Murray wrote:Quoting Zona:Show nested quote +"But you know what? If town members lie about their roles - that's good, too. This is the ONLY aspect in which I think it's good for town members to lie - every other type of lie by town members usually muddles the picture and is detrimental to the town, but lying about your role - the thing that mafia doesn't know and wants to know - that's useful for the town.
You are trying to pin down which of the people at Qatol's position in the draft order and above is lying about their role - but identifying liars (about roles) does NOT identify mafia! I reiterate - if you catch someone lying about almost everything else in the game, that might be a sign of mafia - but lying about your role is one thing town members likely SHOULD DO! I wish that a lot of the "vanilla" claims that have come out really are lies! But I have a bad feeling they aren't, due to the way things have played out.
he's advocating not lynching liars, which is scummy as fuck
people who have been hunting liars (like radfield) increase town cred a lot
when he says "but identifying liars (about roles) does NOT identify mafia!" he is just trying to confuse you.
No, he's advocating not lynching people who are lying about their role. Really people shouldn't be roleclaiming either way. Here is the problem: people want to lie about their roles. If you are a medic, you want to pretend to be a veteran or a green in the hopes that the mafia look elsewhere. The problem with this is that some people have the "brilliant" idea to claim a role instead of just not talking about it.
On May 05 2010 05:23 Zona wrote:
To give further emphasis on why it's important to preserve our roles - the serial killer. Pretty much no one has talked about our other enemy (except for a mention by Scamp) - but consider this person's abilities.
Appears innocent to cops.
Cannot be killed at night.
Has no team - so there will be no teamwork slipups that we can catch.
Other than a unlucky hit by this person on the methman, town will have to identify this person and lynch (or dayvig or venge-kill) him or her to win. If this person is careful in the thread and we fail to identify him or her by his or her posts - which is the only role that can identify this person? The tracker. The tracker is the only role (other than an inventor's inventions) that can identify the serial killer. And now it seems like the town has basically told both mafia and the serial killer which half of the players they can ignore if they're looking to kill the tracker. Stop digging after roles, please!
While it would be nice to catch the serial killer, there really isn't anything we can do about him right now except look for trashy behavior and hope that Bill starts using his role better/we get protects.
On May 05 2010 05:41 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 05:36 Bill Murray wrote:
radfield, the copycat is now a weak doctor, it really doesn't matter.
I'm not hunting for the copycat or the weak doctor, I'm hunting for scum, regardless of role. I'm not sure where else we can start.
I'm realizing now that Qatol could have lied about being Vanilla at the start to protect himself, in which case all my logic flies out the window. It also means Sidesprang could be one of our few townies with a sweet role... ugh.
I suppose if that is the case Qatol could let us know before we lynch him(...I know, again with the roleclaims....)
I did not lie. I'm not stupid enough to make a move like that if I'm innocent. I don't like roleclaiming at all unless it is absolutely necessary. In this case, it was.
On May 05 2010 06:25 sidesprang wrote:
Someone here is definitely lying, Read: im not copycat.
I can't argue against that i do not look suspicious. But the evidence against me is very circumstantial, it requires 5 people who has role claimed already to speak the truth about their role for me to be guilty.
Falcynn: Needs to not have picked a role
Hobbes: His fun fun role(which could have been copycat imo, prolly methman tho) is not copycat.
Korynne: Needs to have picked compulsive but got nothing. I kinda believe him, as picking compulsive vigilante as third is not that far fetched.
opz: Needs to have picked compulsive vigilante as number 6, seems like a stupid choice so late.
Qatol: Needs to have picked copycat and told the truth about him not getting it.
What all these roleclaims have in common is that they discourage mafia/sk to kill them although they are high on the list. But even in this game i find it really stupid to roleclaim, and that so many people have done it already shocks me. This made it a lesser risk for the mafia/SK to kill people high on the list as their chance of hitting a good blue is better. About why caller died idk, seems like a poor choice by the mafia/SK if they believed caller in his roleclaim.
And FYI i got beta key invite yesterday(if you want proof i got in here on TL forums), and i was at work. So I have been inactive
You still have yet to actually contribute. All you have done is come out and defended yourself. You won't even give us a better target!
EPT
