EPTI rarely had games where the AD carry went to the stage where he'd just kill me quickly, so perhaps I've been tainted by that "I'm sitting on your face, I don't do damage but you only tickles so in the end you'll die first" mentality.
[Champion] Maokai - Page 5
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I rarely had games where the AD carry went to the stage where he'd just kill me quickly, so perhaps I've been tainted by that "I'm sitting on your face, I don't do damage but you only tickles so in the end you'll die first" mentality. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Mios
United States686 Posts
On February 23 2012 06:14 Slayer91 wrote: From udyr thread: I don't really agree with this. I mean, if you don't scale well with damage that's great because it's hard enough finding time to buy DPS items on bruisers anyway. If you have tons of armour you're such a huge threat because you give 0 fucks about their ADs damage but can CC them a ton. If you have to be really careful when you engage then you're not anyway near as scary as someone who will W anyone who's any bit out of position. I mean, shurleyas/randuins/frozen heart/fon/mercs is a list of items you want to do your job on maokai and that's already 5 items. just curious, anyone know what he means about "2nd/3rd/4th position"? | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On February 23 2012 07:02 Slayer91 wrote: You haven't encountered 6 item vayne/kog/any ad with steriod, then? Not even six item vayne. The second vayne gets a phantomdancer and a green elixir there's no such thing as "tickles." | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On February 23 2012 07:03 Mios wrote: just curious, anyone know what he means about "2nd/3rd/4th position"? I think he means in terms of total gold on the team. Typically you might have 1: AD Carry 2: Solo top 3: AP Carry 4: Jungler 5: Support. He's saying you'll need similar farm to your AP/Top (say) to be effective, while maokai doesn't need to worry about farming that hard because he'll always be useful even if he's not as farmed as he'd like to be. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I read the udyr thread btw and I really like your idea of chalice. After the 2nd clear I'm never out of health on camps or even after ganks, but I get mana-starved pretty fast so it hurts my speed. Since I'm also hesitant sometimes as negatron/mercs isn't always enough when the enemy AP carry gets fed and upgrading a Negatron usually costs a lot for the additional MRes, chalice could actually complement that really well. I'll make sure to try that soon. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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danana
United States321 Posts
Anyway, I was also wondering about getting mana and/or damage items to make later jungle clears without blue a bit more efficient. I usually find myself taking a really long time on buffs and even small golems when I don't have the mana to spam Q and E, or else I have to frequently back when I have plenty of health and stuff I want to do around the map but just run out of mana. So I've been considering getting either chalice, sheen (build into trinity force if the game goes that long), or blasting wand (probably would build into abyssal, which i like to get anyway on an ap-heavy team) - are these reasonable options to buy after double gp5? Oh, and since Maokai is becoming as close as I'll probably get to a main champ, is there anyone in particular i should aim to ban when i plan to pick maokai? i've heard shyvana is a major counter, but what makes shyvana such a large threat for maokai? (if she counterjungles, is my CC not enough to keep her there long enough for lanes to come help? or should i not trust my soloqueue lanes to do that?) | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On February 23 2012 07:19 danana wrote: I'm not very good so you guys can tell me if my reasoning is wrong here, but I don't really find any negatron items to be a very high priority on Maokai. The secondary stats and actives on items like Shurelya's, Randuins, Frozen heart, and Aegis seem much much more useful than those on veil or fon, and typically as a tank I feel like most of the damage I take should come from the AD carry rather than the AP carry anyway. I do find a lategame fon nice, but typically wouldn't build it until I already have a significant health pool from shurelyas and randuins. Anyway, I was also wondering about getting mana and/or damage items to make later jungle clears without blue a bit more efficient. I usually find myself taking a really long time on buffs and even small golems when I don't have the mana to spam Q and E, or else I have to frequently back when I have plenty of health and stuff I want to do around the map but just run out of mana. So I've been considering getting either chalice, sheen (build into trinity force if the game goes that long), or blasting wand (probably would build into abyssal, which i like to get anyway on an ap-heavy team) - are these reasonable options to buy after double gp5? Oh, and since Maokai is becoming as close as I'll probably get to a main champ, is there anyone in particular i should aim to ban when i plan to pick maokai? i've heard shyvana is a major counter, but what makes shyvana such a large threat for maokai? (if she counterjungles, is my CC not enough to keep her there long enough for lanes to come help? or should i not trust my soloqueue lanes to do that?) 1: I agree, hard to make MR items outside of FoN when you're really farmed. Mercs/aegis/chalice/ are better. 2: Chalice is really good. Sheen didn't convince me. I run out of mana as well a lot and since I bought chalice maokai is 10x more fun. Go like philo-->chalice-->hog-->shurelyas-->w/e 3: No real counters to maokai, just ban things that tend to own your team. (e.g gankers like rammus or shaco, or mids like kassadin or ahri or lb) Like chalice is just ridiculous in the jungle when you can stay out of base for 5 mins+ it far outweights buying flat mana although glacial is the most efficienct way of getting it so thats why people like snoopeh get it fast. But then he lacks some HP in midgame and can't be so agressive in initiating teamfights. | ||
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danana
United States321 Posts
On February 23 2012 07:34 Slayer91 wrote: 1: I agree, hard to make MR items outside of FoN when you're really farmed. Mercs/aegis/chalice/ are better. 2: Chalice is really good. Sheen didn't convince me. I run out of mana as well a lot and since I bought chalice maokai is 10x more fun. Go like philo-->chalice-->hog-->shurelyas-->w/e 3: No real counters to maokai, just ban things that tend to own your team. (e.g gankers like rammus or shaco, or mids like kassadin or ahri or lb) Like chalice is just ridiculous in the jungle when you can stay out of base for 5 mins+ it far outweights buying flat mana although glacial is the most efficienct way of getting it so thats why people like snoopeh get it fast. But then he lacks some HP in midgame and can't be so agressive in initiating teamfights. Thanks for the advice! I guess I was mainly considering sheen because people run it on jungle alistar, but ya i'll definitely try out more chalice since I already have a kind of unhealthy obsession with that item. | ||
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Craton
United States17242 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
I don't mind banshee if you are making good use of an early cata, but as a mid/late game anti AP item which is when most people get it I really hate it on melees, and people tend not to build it on ranged now either. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
Credentials: 1550 freeweek maokai with ~65% winrate so far. I go 0/21/9, getting the mana masteries in utility and buff duration. In defense I get the standard tanky jungler masteries and scaling CDR. For runes, I have 3 AP quints, 9x attack speed marks, 9x flat armor seals, 5 flat AP glyphs and 4 flat MR glyphs. The reason for this is that it makes your level 1 go extremely smoothly and gives you enough damage to clear wraiths quickly on your 3rd clear of them. Open regrowth + a pot At 1:04.5, throw your first sapling onto the wraiths. You should be standing in the direct line between the tower and where the big wraith spawns. Keep throwing saplings on cooldown. You should have 3 saplings explode at 1:40 which kills all the small ones and the big one should be the only one left. At ~1:41-1:42 you should throw one more sapling on top of the big wraith. Once it lands, start walking towards blue, the sapling should kill the big wraith. Blue should spawn as you're rounding the corner to it and from then on follow the standard jungle paths. (I get double golems before red since smite + level 3 helps greatly) After you kill red, if you got a good leash on blue, you should be at ~80% health if not higher including the pot you used. Level E->Q->E->W and then attempt to gank mid. At this point you should be a level above them and ~80% of the time you can get an easy kill (Don't run in from river, go around their blue side river wall so that they have a minimum of time to react. Twisted advance in, Q immediately and then throw a sapling along the retreat path. Clear wolves or B. From there you can get a philostone which is plenty of sustain. I go philostone -> boots of speed -> heart of gold -> shurelya's reverie. The reason for rushing the shurelya's is that it makes you tankier in the jungle, gives a huge amount of mp5 and most importantly, gives you a speed boost on a 60 second cooldown. Just pop the shurelya's and run in just as fast as a powerball rammus. The main thing about maokai that I've found is that he's a support far more than a bruiser aka udyr. Your job is to feed your lanes, not get fed. | ||
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Nautilus loves wit's because it scales really well with his shield and also smoothes his animation to catch people with his passive. | ||
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
On February 23 2012 07:03 Mios wrote: just curious, anyone know what he means about "2nd/3rd/4th position"? I think he meant in team select. You wouldn't first pick maokai. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Maokai doesn't warrant too much farm over carries, because of his naturally good stats and heaps on utility that don't require items (cc, ult, etc.). | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On April 06 2012 23:31 Haasts wrote: If you were to build one damage item on Maokai, what would it be - Sheen (=> TriForce), Rod of Ages, Abyssal Scepter, or, IDK, Wit's End? Usually play him in a v.supportive role, but occasionally I'll get remarkably fed and have a few more options open to me - any suggestions? Been playing a lot of Nautilus, who ostensibly has a lot in common with Mao, but I'm often able to get away with building Naut a lot weirder than Mao - Catalyst into RoA and grabbing boots/5, etc. Abyssal or deathcap. Normally it's super lategame when getting more tanky isn't going to help at all since only carries do any damage to me at this point and they have lots of damage and armour pen anyways. | ||
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Strykemard
168 Posts
On April 06 2012 23:31 Haasts wrote: If you were to build one damage item on Maokai, what would it be - Sheen (=> TriForce), Rod of Ages, Abyssal Scepter, or, IDK, Wit's End? Usually play him in a v.supportive role, but occasionally I'll get remarkably fed and have a few more options open to me - any suggestions? Been playing a lot of Nautilus, who ostensibly has a lot in common with Mao, but I'm often able to get away with building Naut a lot weirder than Mao - Catalyst into RoA and grabbing boots/5, etc. I'd go with RoA. It seems to sync perfectly with his playstyle and build and gives him both damage and survivability. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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