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[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 63

Forum Index > LoL General
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oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
October 05 2013 17:08 GMT
#1241
assassin centered meta is way better than karthus etc. there's lots of action.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
October 05 2013 17:09 GMT
#1242
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1nsa13/puszu_leaving_fnatic_gaming_house/
Looks like fnatic has made their decision and it's rekkles.
Glorious SEA doto
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 05 2013 17:17 GMT
#1243
On October 06 2013 02:09 Fusilero wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1nsa13/puszu_leaving_fnatic_gaming_house/
Looks like fnatic has made their decision and it's rekkles.

Uzi must have broke him.
But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure.
liftlift > tsm
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
October 05 2013 17:23 GMT
#1244
On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 02:09 Fusilero wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1nsa13/puszu_leaving_fnatic_gaming_house/
Looks like fnatic has made their decision and it's rekkles.

Uzi must have broke him.
But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure.

Eh, I think you're giving him too much credit. He would get a lot of kills because he would clean up team fights started by xPeke and sOAZ, but his laning was pretty underwhelming. I think you guys might be forgetting how good Rekkles was. He's certainly a level above Puszu.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
October 05 2013 17:24 GMT
#1245
I feel sorry for every fnatic ADC "Hey this fnatic ADC is pretty good, BUT XPEKE AND SOAZ PLS"
Glorious SEA doto
Haiq343
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2548 Posts
October 05 2013 17:27 GMT
#1246
I'm torn on Puszu. The clean-up KDA critique feels very true, at the same time I wonder how much of his lanining struggles were from playing in heavily Leona lanes that while kill lanes are exploitable by good players. Seems like both results are the extreme situations.
I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination encircles the world. -Einstein
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-05 17:28:42
October 05 2013 17:27 GMT
#1247
On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 02:09 Fusilero wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1nsa13/puszu_leaving_fnatic_gaming_house/
Looks like fnatic has made their decision and it's rekkles.

Uzi must have broke him.
But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure.

Copenhagen pups said they'd take him if fnatic took rekkles so it's probably going to be a trade. Can't say I'm entirely certain though it sounds a bit too in on how hard cowtard can carry.
On October 06 2013 02:27 Haiq343 wrote:
I'm torn on Puszu. The clean-up KDA critique feels very true, at the same time I wonder how much of his lanining struggles were from playing in heavily Leona lanes that while kill lanes are exploitable by good players. Seems like both results are the extreme situations.

I feel like people do overlook this loads, yolostar played loads of leona so there were many times where for all intents and purposes he's 1v2 as leona can't do anything.
Glorious SEA doto
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 05 2013 17:28 GMT
#1248
On October 06 2013 02:23 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2013 02:09 Fusilero wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1nsa13/puszu_leaving_fnatic_gaming_house/
Looks like fnatic has made their decision and it's rekkles.

Uzi must have broke him.
But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure.

Eh, I think you're giving him too much credit. He would get a lot of kills because he would clean up team fights started by xPeke and sOAZ, but his laning was pretty underwhelming. I think you guys might be forgetting how good Rekkles was. He's certainly a level above Puszu.

Rekkles was always overrated imo, even when there was tons of hype for him to be the new age of EU Adc's.
liftlift > tsm
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
October 05 2013 17:31 GMT
#1249
On October 06 2013 02:23 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2013 02:09 Fusilero wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1nsa13/puszu_leaving_fnatic_gaming_house/
Looks like fnatic has made their decision and it's rekkles.

Uzi must have broke him.
But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure.

Eh, I think you're giving him too much credit. He would get a lot of kills because he would clean up team fights started by xPeke and sOAZ, but his laning was pretty underwhelming. I think you guys might be forgetting how good Rekkles was. He's certainly a level above Puszu.


isnt that exactly his job though. i agree his laning doesnt seem dominant but against royal every lane lost, but the other laners who lost over and over again arent getting any critique.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
October 05 2013 17:31 GMT
#1250
fnatic laning weakness murdered them. they need to train weak areas of their game like laning instead of just solo q and troll scrim
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
October 05 2013 17:31 GMT
#1251
Rekkles was always overrated but he is an upgrade from puszu 100%.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 05 2013 17:31 GMT
#1252
On October 06 2013 02:07 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 02:06 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2013 02:01 Requizen wrote:
On October 06 2013 01:58 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2013 01:55 Requizen wrote:
On October 06 2013 01:52 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2013 01:49 Fusilero wrote:
I'd like a more general tacke at the current dominance of assassins rather than specifically going after zed himself.
Even then the strength orianna and gragas has shown in the later of stages in worlds suggests that even then assassins aren't as much of a problem as people make them out to be.

What assassins are dominant right now? Only Zed...
I guess I'd count Ahri as an assassin, but pick champs are a little different than assassin.

Ahri, Fizz, Zed, Kass are all big picks bans. Eve sees lots of plays (though she plays less of a bursty assassin than the others). Kha was a big pick before his changes and certain teams still run him a lot.

Fizz has noticeable weaknesses, and Kass is only pick/ban on like 2 pros. If anything that's a nice spread of champions, I wouldn't say that they were overwhelmingly toxic in Worlds like Zed was.

The only other mids that saw lots of picks were Ori and Grag. While Fizz and Kass might not be "dominant", when 4 of the 6 most picked mids are assassins, it's an assassin meta - especially when Ori and Grag are really only picked for being good against said assassins. You can't really deny that.

Not enough people play Riven mid, that's all.

Riven is arguably still pretty assasssin-y, considering her burst and ability to dive and instagib squishies.


Nah Riven is a "Fighter" to use Riots terminology.

I don't mind the Assassin meta so much, but Zed is hamstringing it. Other Assassins like Ahri Kassadin and Fizz get played, but they get played because Zed is banned. They're substitute picks for Zed who is the premier Assassin and no Assassins are better than him.

It's like there's this Assassin hierarchy right now.

Top tier: Zed
Second tier (played if Zed is banned): Ahri, Kassadin, Fizz
Third tier (not played): Khazix, Leblanc, Talon, Akali, Katarina

That's not really a perfect list, but I think it's indicative of what the issue is. Zed is so strong that he's keeping other Assassin choices from being played, simply because even if they're strong, they're not Zed.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
SHr3DD3r
Profile Joined March 2009
Pakistan2137 Posts
October 05 2013 17:34 GMT
#1253
I actually really like the current picks that we see. And the state of balance in the game is pretty good. They just need to give pros more time - and increase the number of bans and maybe the banning format. Yango keeps mentioning it and with reason.

I do believe that majority of the champs in this game in their current state are definitely viable. Just need an opportunity to shine and to be tested.

Rekkles is really good. By far the best adc in EU, but that ain't saying much tbh.
Hit them hard! Hit them low! - Forever a Bisu Fan!~!
The_Unseen
Profile Joined March 2011
France1923 Posts
October 05 2013 17:35 GMT
#1254
Hello guys,

Just a quick reminder for those who only read GD : there's a TL Inhouse on EUW tonight ! You can find all the info you need on this thread :D
I got five reasons for you to shut up
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-05 17:36:26
October 05 2013 17:36 GMT
#1255
On October 06 2013 01:48 petered wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 01:44 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, I don't think any champ is so out of line right now that their balance needs to take priority over the other systemic issues in the game right now.

Worrying about champ balance is a mis-assignment of priorities from Riot IMO.

EDIT: Also, worrying about individual champ balance right now is virtually meaningless, given the massive overhaul of S4 on the horizion. Any individual champ change will have basically zero impact compared to the reshuffle of power based on playstyle changes due to whatever systemic changes Riot makes in S4.


Is the game in really that bad of a place? I mean, I agree that it could definitely use changes, but not anything so drastic that a champ with 100% pick and ban at worlds couldn't use some balancing first.

Edit: I agree with your edit, though. I forgot that they are already making pretty drastic game changes anyway.

Systemic issues I think need to be addressed before individual champ balance:
- Mana cost creep
- Drafting system in competitive games
- Support/jungle itemization

There are a couple others that I'm not thinking of right now.
Moderator
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-05 17:38:58
October 05 2013 17:37 GMT
#1256
On October 06 2013 02:31 nafta wrote:
Rekkles was always overrated but he is an upgrade from puszu 100%.

This is probably true. He was overrated because of the magnitude that people talked him up.That said, he's still really good.

On October 06 2013 02:36 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 01:48 petered wrote:
On October 06 2013 01:44 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, I don't think any champ is so out of line right now that their balance needs to take priority over the other systemic issues in the game right now.

Worrying about champ balance is a mis-assignment of priorities from Riot IMO.

EDIT: Also, worrying about individual champ balance right now is virtually meaningless, given the massive overhaul of S4 on the horizion. Any individual champ change will have basically zero impact compared to the reshuffle of power based on playstyle changes due to whatever systemic changes Riot makes in S4.


Is the game in really that bad of a place? I mean, I agree that it could definitely use changes, but not anything so drastic that a champ with 100% pick and ban at worlds couldn't use some balancing first.

Edit: I agree with your edit, though. I forgot that they are already making pretty drastic game changes anyway.

Systemic issues I think need to be addressed before individual champ balance:
- Mana cost creep
- Drafting system in competitive games
- Support/jungle itemization

There are a couple others that I'm not thinking of right now.

Vision
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
October 05 2013 17:39 GMT
#1257
Vision and itemization go hand in hand I feel.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
October 05 2013 17:41 GMT
#1258
On October 06 2013 02:39 Numy wrote:
Vision and itemization go hand in hand I feel.

I semi agree, if jungle and supports had more viable items worth prioritizing it might stem how both roles generally just spam wards and oracles but I still think that even if support/jungle itemization got better vision would still take overt priority.
Glorious SEA doto
Haiq343
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2548 Posts
October 05 2013 17:45 GMT
#1259
On October 06 2013 02:37 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 02:31 nafta wrote:
Rekkles was always overrated but he is an upgrade from puszu 100%.

This is probably true. He was overrated because of the magnitude that people talked him up.That said, he's still really good.

Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 02:36 TheYango wrote:
On October 06 2013 01:48 petered wrote:
On October 06 2013 01:44 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, I don't think any champ is so out of line right now that their balance needs to take priority over the other systemic issues in the game right now.

Worrying about champ balance is a mis-assignment of priorities from Riot IMO.

EDIT: Also, worrying about individual champ balance right now is virtually meaningless, given the massive overhaul of S4 on the horizion. Any individual champ change will have basically zero impact compared to the reshuffle of power based on playstyle changes due to whatever systemic changes Riot makes in S4.


Is the game in really that bad of a place? I mean, I agree that it could definitely use changes, but not anything so drastic that a champ with 100% pick and ban at worlds couldn't use some balancing first.

Edit: I agree with your edit, though. I forgot that they are already making pretty drastic game changes anyway.

Systemic issues I think need to be addressed before individual champ balance:
- Mana cost creep
- Drafting system in competitive games
- Support/jungle itemization

There are a couple others that I'm not thinking of right now.

Vision

Mana costs seems like it's a pretty straightforward fix if Riot wanted to do it. (The don't ofc because having to pay attention isn't fun or some such). I'm trying not to read too much into their big vision feedback thread, but it isn't a good hope-generator to hear Riot go on about support/jungle income and totally ignore why that happens.
I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination encircles the world. -Einstein
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35166 Posts
October 05 2013 17:50 GMT
#1260
On October 06 2013 02:31 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2013 02:07 Requizen wrote:
On October 06 2013 02:06 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2013 02:01 Requizen wrote:
On October 06 2013 01:58 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2013 01:55 Requizen wrote:
On October 06 2013 01:52 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2013 01:49 Fusilero wrote:
I'd like a more general tacke at the current dominance of assassins rather than specifically going after zed himself.
Even then the strength orianna and gragas has shown in the later of stages in worlds suggests that even then assassins aren't as much of a problem as people make them out to be.

What assassins are dominant right now? Only Zed...
I guess I'd count Ahri as an assassin, but pick champs are a little different than assassin.

Ahri, Fizz, Zed, Kass are all big picks bans. Eve sees lots of plays (though she plays less of a bursty assassin than the others). Kha was a big pick before his changes and certain teams still run him a lot.

Fizz has noticeable weaknesses, and Kass is only pick/ban on like 2 pros. If anything that's a nice spread of champions, I wouldn't say that they were overwhelmingly toxic in Worlds like Zed was.

The only other mids that saw lots of picks were Ori and Grag. While Fizz and Kass might not be "dominant", when 4 of the 6 most picked mids are assassins, it's an assassin meta - especially when Ori and Grag are really only picked for being good against said assassins. You can't really deny that.

Not enough people play Riven mid, that's all.

Riven is arguably still pretty assasssin-y, considering her burst and ability to dive and instagib squishies.


Nah Riven is a "Fighter" to use Riots terminology.

I don't mind the Assassin meta so much, but Zed is hamstringing it. Other Assassins like Ahri Kassadin and Fizz get played, but they get played because Zed is banned. They're substitute picks for Zed who is the premier Assassin and no Assassins are better than him.

It's like there's this Assassin hierarchy right now.

Top tier: Zed
Second tier (played if Zed is banned): Ahri, Kassadin, Fizz
Third tier (not played): Khazix, Leblanc, Talon, Akali, Katarina

That's not really a perfect list, but I think it's indicative of what the issue is. Zed is so strong that he's keeping other Assassin choices from being played, simply because even if they're strong, they're not Zed.

Riven, according to Morello iirc, is classified as a "light fighter". Reading between the lines, that is basically their excuse to make an assassin and dress it up as a fighter. Without heavily modifying the standard build, Riven doesn't fit as a "fighter."
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