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On October 06 2013 02:27 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:Uzi must have broke him. But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure. Copenhagen pups said they'd take him if fnatic took rekkles so it's probably going to be a trade. Can't say I'm entirely certain though it sounds a bit too in on how hard cowtard can carry. Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 02:27 Haiq343 wrote:
I'm torn on Puszu. The clean-up KDA critique feels very true, at the same time I wonder how much of his lanining struggles were from playing in heavily Leona lanes that while kill lanes are exploitable by good players. Seems like both results are the extreme situations. I feel like people do overlook this loads, yolostar played loads of leona so there were many times where for all intents and purposes he's 1v2 as leona can't do anything.
This is a silly excuse. Yellowstar didn't only just play leona, and they had favorable lanes at times but he STILL fell behind 50 cs at 10 minutes in just about every game. There really is no excuse. Even if you have a terrible lane you shouldn't be falling that far behind.
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On October 06 2013 03:21 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 02:27 Fusilero wrote:On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:Uzi must have broke him. But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure. Copenhagen pups said they'd take him if fnatic took rekkles so it's probably going to be a trade. Can't say I'm entirely certain though it sounds a bit too in on how hard cowtard can carry. On October 06 2013 02:27 Haiq343 wrote:
I'm torn on Puszu. The clean-up KDA critique feels very true, at the same time I wonder how much of his lanining struggles were from playing in heavily Leona lanes that while kill lanes are exploitable by good players. Seems like both results are the extreme situations. I feel like people do overlook this loads, yolostar played loads of leona so there were many times where for all intents and purposes he's 1v2 as leona can't do anything. This is a silly excuse. Yellowstar didn't only just play leona, and they had favorable lanes at times but he STILL fell behind 50 cs at 10 minutes in just about every game. There really is no excuse. Even if you have a terrible lane you shouldn't be falling that far behind.
He did fine considering how much better Uzi is. He played out teamfights the way he needed to.
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Been duo queuing with a friend, playing Annie Caitlyn everygame. So fun, and the double Tibbers is basically a lane ender.
Also + Show Spoiler + might be in my top 5 LoL videos of all time.
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I just hope they don't kill poor orianna. I love zone control and utility mages... and she's like the only good one.
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On October 06 2013 03:21 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 02:27 Fusilero wrote:On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:Uzi must have broke him. But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure. Copenhagen pups said they'd take him if fnatic took rekkles so it's probably going to be a trade. Can't say I'm entirely certain though it sounds a bit too in on how hard cowtard can carry. On October 06 2013 02:27 Haiq343 wrote:
I'm torn on Puszu. The clean-up KDA critique feels very true, at the same time I wonder how much of his lanining struggles were from playing in heavily Leona lanes that while kill lanes are exploitable by good players. Seems like both results are the extreme situations. I feel like people do overlook this loads, yolostar played loads of leona so there were many times where for all intents and purposes he's 1v2 as leona can't do anything. This is a silly excuse. Yellowstar didn't only just play leona, and they had favorable lanes at times but he STILL fell behind 50 cs at 10 minutes in just about every game. There really is no excuse. Even if you have a terrible lane you shouldn't be falling that far behind.
I heard he took ArPen runes in order to do max Q damage with Varus, I don't think he cared about cs since Uzi was way better than him he just tried to be relevant in teamfight and it worked nicely.
I think Rekkles is overrated... I hope he'll prove me wrong though because I love Fnatic
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On October 06 2013 03:23 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 03:21 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 06 2013 02:27 Fusilero wrote:On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:Uzi must have broke him. But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure. Copenhagen pups said they'd take him if fnatic took rekkles so it's probably going to be a trade. Can't say I'm entirely certain though it sounds a bit too in on how hard cowtard can carry. On October 06 2013 02:27 Haiq343 wrote:
I'm torn on Puszu. The clean-up KDA critique feels very true, at the same time I wonder how much of his lanining struggles were from playing in heavily Leona lanes that while kill lanes are exploitable by good players. Seems like both results are the extreme situations. I feel like people do overlook this loads, yolostar played loads of leona so there were many times where for all intents and purposes he's 1v2 as leona can't do anything. This is a silly excuse. Yellowstar didn't only just play leona, and they had favorable lanes at times but he STILL fell behind 50 cs at 10 minutes in just about every game. There really is no excuse. Even if you have a terrible lane you shouldn't be falling that far behind. He did fine considering how much better Uzi is. He played out teamfights the way he needed to.
Lol is that any different than saying if Uzi went 15-0 against a silver player and saying he did fine considering the skill gap? If you fall behind 50 cs against top level players and you expect to be a world class team you won't win any championships. You're way too much of a liability.
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United States47024 Posts
Rekkles got a lot of credit at IPL5 for being able to go even against Weixiao+Fzzf.
Of course, a lot of that needs to be credited to nRated.
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On October 06 2013 03:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 03:23 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2013 03:21 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 06 2013 02:27 Fusilero wrote:On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:Uzi must have broke him. But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure. Copenhagen pups said they'd take him if fnatic took rekkles so it's probably going to be a trade. Can't say I'm entirely certain though it sounds a bit too in on how hard cowtard can carry. On October 06 2013 02:27 Haiq343 wrote:
I'm torn on Puszu. The clean-up KDA critique feels very true, at the same time I wonder how much of his lanining struggles were from playing in heavily Leona lanes that while kill lanes are exploitable by good players. Seems like both results are the extreme situations. I feel like people do overlook this loads, yolostar played loads of leona so there were many times where for all intents and purposes he's 1v2 as leona can't do anything. This is a silly excuse. Yellowstar didn't only just play leona, and they had favorable lanes at times but he STILL fell behind 50 cs at 10 minutes in just about every game. There really is no excuse. Even if you have a terrible lane you shouldn't be falling that far behind. He did fine considering how much better Uzi is. He played out teamfights the way he needed to. Lol is that any different than saying if Uzi went 15-0 against a silver player and saying he did fine considering the skill gap? If you fall behind 50 cs against top level players and you expect to be a world class team you won't win any championships. You're way too much of a liability.
Lets be honest, 15 - 0 is amazing for a silver player vs Uzi considering Doublelift was going 20 - 0 against Gold players.
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On October 06 2013 03:31 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 03:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 06 2013 03:23 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2013 03:21 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 06 2013 02:27 Fusilero wrote:On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:Uzi must have broke him. But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure. Copenhagen pups said they'd take him if fnatic took rekkles so it's probably going to be a trade. Can't say I'm entirely certain though it sounds a bit too in on how hard cowtard can carry. On October 06 2013 02:27 Haiq343 wrote:
I'm torn on Puszu. The clean-up KDA critique feels very true, at the same time I wonder how much of his lanining struggles were from playing in heavily Leona lanes that while kill lanes are exploitable by good players. Seems like both results are the extreme situations. I feel like people do overlook this loads, yolostar played loads of leona so there were many times where for all intents and purposes he's 1v2 as leona can't do anything. This is a silly excuse. Yellowstar didn't only just play leona, and they had favorable lanes at times but he STILL fell behind 50 cs at 10 minutes in just about every game. There really is no excuse. Even if you have a terrible lane you shouldn't be falling that far behind. He did fine considering how much better Uzi is. He played out teamfights the way he needed to. Lol is that any different than saying if Uzi went 15-0 against a silver player and saying he did fine considering the skill gap? If you fall behind 50 cs against top level players and you expect to be a world class team you won't win any championships. You're way too much of a liability. Lets be honest, 15 - 0 is amazing for a silver player vs Uzi considering Doublelift was going 20 - 0 against Gold players.
Meant to say at 10 minutes*
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
itemization for supports may well use some equivalent of force staff or ghost staff. cheap survival and utility items that can help the team by making yourself survive better. but other than that, supports don't have a lot of expansion space because of the rather strict role definition.
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On October 06 2013 03:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 03:23 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2013 03:21 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 06 2013 02:27 Fusilero wrote:On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:Uzi must have broke him. But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure. Copenhagen pups said they'd take him if fnatic took rekkles so it's probably going to be a trade. Can't say I'm entirely certain though it sounds a bit too in on how hard cowtard can carry. On October 06 2013 02:27 Haiq343 wrote:
I'm torn on Puszu. The clean-up KDA critique feels very true, at the same time I wonder how much of his lanining struggles were from playing in heavily Leona lanes that while kill lanes are exploitable by good players. Seems like both results are the extreme situations. I feel like people do overlook this loads, yolostar played loads of leona so there were many times where for all intents and purposes he's 1v2 as leona can't do anything. This is a silly excuse. Yellowstar didn't only just play leona, and they had favorable lanes at times but he STILL fell behind 50 cs at 10 minutes in just about every game. There really is no excuse. Even if you have a terrible lane you shouldn't be falling that far behind. He did fine considering how much better Uzi is. He played out teamfights the way he needed to. Lol is that any different than saying if Uzi went 15-0 against a silver player and saying he did fine considering the skill gap? If you fall behind 50 cs against top level players and you expect to be a world class team you won't win any championships. You're way too much of a liability.
Wut, losing lane is obvious skill gap problem, but if you looked at later in the games outside of laning phase, he was more than able to hold his own in teamfights, which was exactly what he needed to do.
Puszu lost Semis going 29/9/37, a KDA of 7.3. In contrast, Uzi went 23/17/28 with a KDA of 3.0. Imagine losing with a 16/5/16 score and being knocked out of Worlds. - Doublelift
Also, it's like people forgot fnatic played in group stages, and Puszu did fine against imp+mata combo, another world class botlane.
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KDA is a meaningless stat the way Puszu and Fnatic plays. How often did you see puszu getting dived? Never. The koreans and chinese ADCs in general are on another level in every aspect of the game. They hold a much different philosophy of how to play teamfights. Their goal is to output as much damage as possible on the highest priority targets if possible. They purposefully put themselves in harms way and dying doesn't mean anything as long as they do their job.
And imp + mata lost to genja and voidle that tournament. Hardly world class level.
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On October 06 2013 03:34 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 03:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 06 2013 03:23 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2013 03:21 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 06 2013 02:27 Fusilero wrote:On October 06 2013 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:Uzi must have broke him. But to be honest, he played great all WC long. Real shame, well he'll be picked up in no time, maybe part of the EU super team? I'd take him over freeze, dats for sure. Copenhagen pups said they'd take him if fnatic took rekkles so it's probably going to be a trade. Can't say I'm entirely certain though it sounds a bit too in on how hard cowtard can carry. On October 06 2013 02:27 Haiq343 wrote:
I'm torn on Puszu. The clean-up KDA critique feels very true, at the same time I wonder how much of his lanining struggles were from playing in heavily Leona lanes that while kill lanes are exploitable by good players. Seems like both results are the extreme situations. I feel like people do overlook this loads, yolostar played loads of leona so there were many times where for all intents and purposes he's 1v2 as leona can't do anything. This is a silly excuse. Yellowstar didn't only just play leona, and they had favorable lanes at times but he STILL fell behind 50 cs at 10 minutes in just about every game. There really is no excuse. Even if you have a terrible lane you shouldn't be falling that far behind. He did fine considering how much better Uzi is. He played out teamfights the way he needed to. Lol is that any different than saying if Uzi went 15-0 against a silver player and saying he did fine considering the skill gap? If you fall behind 50 cs against top level players and you expect to be a world class team you won't win any championships. You're way too much of a liability. Wut, losing lane is obvious skill gap problem, but if you looked at later in the games outside of laning phase, he was more than able to hold his own in teamfights, which was exactly what he needed to do. Show nested quote +Puszu lost Semis going 29/9/37, a KDA of 7.3. In contrast, Uzi went 23/17/28 with a KDA of 3.0. Imagine losing with a 16/5/16 score and being knocked out of Worlds. - Doublelift Also, it's like people forgot fnatic played in group stages, and Puszu did fine against imp+mata combo, another world class botlane.
I mentioned before that I think Puszu is inbetween the praise and the criticism, but! I checked the group stage picks in both the SSO games, and I feel like their lanes were massively better picks. (Leona Corki vs Sona Kogmaw G1 and Zyra Corki v Ez Fiddle G2). Those both strike me as dream matchups for a Corki player at a time where players were still adapting to how powerful Corki had become. Also, SSO played like baked-ass. That's not to dismiss the accomplishment but to place beating imp/mata in some context.
+ Show Spoiler [BotLanePicksFnaticGroups] +Sona Cait v Corki zyra Vul
Leona Cait v Corki Zyra Min
Leona Corki v Kog Sona SSO
Leona Varus v Sona MF GMB
Zyra Ashe v Sona Cait Vul
Zyra Corki v Ez Fiddle SSO
Zyra Ashe v Sona Varus GMB
Sivir Blitz v Sona, Zilean, Nunu, Sorka, Varus Minesk
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On October 06 2013 03:43 Itsmedudeman wrote:
KDA is a meaningless stat the way Puszu and Fnatic plays. How often did you see puszu getting dived? Never. The koreans and chinese ADCs in general are on another level in every aspect of the game. They hold a much different philosophy of how to play teamfights. Their goal is to output as much damage as possible on the highest priority targets if possible. They purposefully put themselves in harms way and dying doesn't mean anything as long as they do their job.
And imp + mata lost to genja and voidle that tournament. Hardly world class level.
The inevitability that one player is going to be better than another is going to happen in World Championships. Obviously Uzi shits on Puszu, but Puszu played within his abilities in teamfights outside laning phase. It's one thing to get ouplayed and continue playing poorly, it's another to get out skilled, but continue doing what your team needs you to do.
I'm not saying Puszu's KDA in comparison to Uzi's KDA is a measurement of skill, but Puszu's KDA in isolation in those matches showed how well he played outside of lane.
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On October 06 2013 03:54 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 03:43 Itsmedudeman wrote:
KDA is a meaningless stat the way Puszu and Fnatic plays. How often did you see puszu getting dived? Never. The koreans and chinese ADCs in general are on another level in every aspect of the game. They hold a much different philosophy of how to play teamfights. Their goal is to output as much damage as possible on the highest priority targets if possible. They purposefully put themselves in harms way and dying doesn't mean anything as long as they do their job.
And imp + mata lost to genja and voidle that tournament. Hardly world class level. The inevitability that one player is going to be better than another is going to happen in World Championships. Obviously Uzi shits on Puszu, but Puszu played within his abilities in teamfights outside laning phase. It's one thing to get ouplayed and continue playing poorly, it's another to get out skilled, but continue doing what your team needs you to do. I'm not saying Puszu's KDA in comparison to Uzi's KDA is a measurement of skill, but Puszu's KDA in isolation in those matches showed how well he played outside of lane.
It shows that playing ad-s that just poke and cc(varus/corki) when you don't get dived you get good kda  .Like if you actually watched the games you would've seen how puszu was left to do what he wanted and he played ok but he never did any plays and losing lane so hard shouldn't happen no matter who your opponent is if you consider yourself world class.
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I am awful at this game and don't understand it. Why do I play it so much? I can't even relax in arams and find myself envious of people who are at +100 wins and went 32-0 before they lost a game while I struggle mightily to get +50 after 200 games. I might as well play normals where I can at least choose a champ or just play ranked so the game can finally tell me I suck.
*sigh*
I mad. Sorry if this would be better blogging material.
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EUW Inhouses starting right now!
Also I personally think that the only way to really compare Rekkles and Puszu is to let Rekkles play vs Royal and the like with Fnatic, because I don't think you can really compare IPL 5 and S3 Worlds.
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On October 06 2013 03:57 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 03:54 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2013 03:43 Itsmedudeman wrote:
KDA is a meaningless stat the way Puszu and Fnatic plays. How often did you see puszu getting dived? Never. The koreans and chinese ADCs in general are on another level in every aspect of the game. They hold a much different philosophy of how to play teamfights. Their goal is to output as much damage as possible on the highest priority targets if possible. They purposefully put themselves in harms way and dying doesn't mean anything as long as they do their job.
And imp + mata lost to genja and voidle that tournament. Hardly world class level. The inevitability that one player is going to be better than another is going to happen in World Championships. Obviously Uzi shits on Puszu, but Puszu played within his abilities in teamfights outside laning phase. It's one thing to get ouplayed and continue playing poorly, it's another to get out skilled, but continue doing what your team needs you to do. I'm not saying Puszu's KDA in comparison to Uzi's KDA is a measurement of skill, but Puszu's KDA in isolation in those matches showed how well he played outside of lane. It shows that playing ad-s that just poke and cc(varus/corki) when you don't get dived you get good kda .Like if you actually watched the games you would've seen how puszu was left to do what he wanted and he played ok but he never did any plays and losing lane so hard shouldn't happen no matter who your opponent is if you consider yourself world class.
I like how you imply I didn't watch the games. When I did.
Skill gaps simply what happen in games/sports/etc. How well you can hold your own, or compensate for that skill gap is what is important. Fnatic did a fine job compensating for it, and Puszu did what he needed to do as position 2 ADC. I'm not claiming Puszu is world class, but considering inherent skill difference, Puszu played it out very well. Also, it's much harder for Puszu to climb back in teamfights, if he's constantly shoved in position 2 in farm priority.
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Sort of talking around the key points of each other here, so quick summary to see if we can all agree.
Puszu had a bad time in lane.
Puszu was not the only fnatic player to lose in cs significantly.
Despite this Puszu managed to usually contribute meaningfully to Fnatic's engagements.
Puszu's champs generally lent themselves to those contributions by facilitating safe/ranged clean-ups.
Puszu was rarely the dive/burst/priority target.
I dunno where I'm going with this anymore, but that's the basis of my general "Puszu's decent-good-but-not-top-flight" feeling.
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Being outclassed is fine but not THAT much.I never said he didn't do his job in teamfights or something like that.But that is expected as the minimum for a player.I mean if puszu did so good do you think they would replace him with rekkles lol?
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EPT
