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On November 27 2012 15:50 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 15:38 TheYango wrote:On November 27 2012 15:19 OutlaW- wrote:On November 27 2012 14:38 justiceknight wrote:
does any1 has a video tutorial that teaches u how to CS like a boss? I always see progamers' have very good farm like the value of CS is more than the game timer (eg: 200 cs in 20 mins) i really dont understand what part of CSing needs a tutorial, it's simply a mechanic that you need to practice for yourself. If you're talking about farming in general, then try not to miss any waves by pushing your lane into the enemy's turret before doing other stuff like roaming or basing. The reason good mid laners consistently have 200 creeps in 20 minutes is because they take a wraith/wolf camp after pushing the wave. I'm not sure about the numbers exactly but I think like 230~ creeps spawn in 20 minutes, so you're still able to roam a little bit. Just push the wave and farm the jungler while you're not losing anything. Of course, often it's much better to just go gank a lane instead of farming a wraith, which is one of the reasons why you don't always see this numbers in soloq. For top lanerz, it's when they aren't forced to take the other guy's turret or to help their team, so they just stay top lane all day and farm. This isn't always (often actually) the best course of action so I advise comparing creep scores to your opponent, not some random number Also, I can't watch riven because he's only 14. I don't feel when when someone this young is better at the game than me. :x The main "difficulty" of getting high CS scores in a long game isn't really mechanical, but rather finding space to farm, and good moments to farm between fights. This isn't so much something you can teach more than something you get a feel for as you play. As you get a sense of your own tempo, you pick up on times when/how you can maximize your farm, corresponding to the ebb and flow of the lanes. Though tbh in a lot of low level games there's a ton of wasted farm in a lot of places. People don't push out waves cleanly, let huge waves of creeps push into their towers while they're pushing as a team (if you're not pushing out your lanes before you push and big waves get wasted on your towers, you might waste just as much farm as pushing a tower as a team is worth), and do generally inefficient things like taking their jungler's wraiths while there's uncontested farm mid for them to take. I agree, but if your mechanics aren't good then you won't be hitting those 10/100 creep scores anyway. People, even pros, frequently miss at least 20 creeps in the laning phase just by poor mechanics alone, and honestly, so do I.
TBH a big part of CS is being able to set it up so there aren't any that are impossible. IE: pay attention to what creeps are taking damage and if two are going to die at around the same time start autoing one early so you don't miss one due to auto attack cooldown. paying attention to little things like that can help your CS a lot. also just controlling the wave so you don't get pushed into tower.. if you are playing against someone that pushes hard start spamming autos on the creeps to mitigate it somewhat
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On November 27 2012 20:48 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 20:46 OutlaW- wrote:
TIL silsol is 15 years old
what the fuck is with these kids being so good at this game TIL OutlaW- has the most awesome summoner name EU. Would not have argued with you about late game Lee if I had known before. Seriously, I fell in love with it. Wanna duo? <3 <3 <3 Also, SilSols AMA is probably the biggest waste of reddit bandwidth ever. And that says a lot about HOW bad it really is.
Care to share this wonderful username? You got us all worked up now!
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On November 27 2012 23:42 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 20:59 spellsy wrote:On November 27 2012 20:35 UniversalSnip wrote:
I can see how that's kind of at cross purposes, because you wouldn't want to buy a niche stat on a hero it doesn't do much for when you're trying to get an item for it's utility. You do run into a problem, though, where if you never put niche stats on major utility items heroes that need those niche stats have restricted access to items with utility. for example, suppose none of the support items involved paying for mana regen. Leona and ali might benefit, but suddenly sona is screwed. Now suppose half of them do, you're just moving the scale back and forth.
If anyone has insight into dota costing I wonder how they deal with this, since generally itemization is a lot better in that game. The utility seems to be extremely dominant over stats on them (for example force staff costs like 2200 but only gives something like 1k worth of int as far as stats as I recall) but I really don't know what the math is like. yea i just think like the active should more accurately correspond with the stats. so like if i was looking to build something out of chalice, i think of something more oriented to spammy type supports. i wrote this as kinda follow up: + Show Spoiler +idk i think it would be cool if the chalice item built into something that rewarded high casting supports, like lulu, soraka, janna, and esp sona [nami?]. maybe something like guinsoo rageblade esque where you cast more and more spells and it stacks up giving you something, even if it was just mana regen or something to synergize with the "chalice" niche.
or even something better like a cast based statikk's shiv, where after like 5 casts or something your next ally targeted spell shoots a healing wave or something. or after 5 casts the next cast is 25% quicker cd. or after casting 10 times you can active the item for a "casting frenzy" where your spells have -10% cd for next 5 sec, like a ghostblade for supports!
i think with the inclusion of like melee only and ranged only items riot wouldnt be against items which proc based on ally targeted spells ?
i understand that riot doesnt want to make oto many "passive interaction" items like auras etc., as they've been moving most support items to active items, but I think they have almost oversaturated it as often i have 4-5 activatable items at the end of a game, i think that an impactful interaction - but not active would be cool, something like a "every x times you do y" or just a "when this condition, this special interaction happens", even if it was like "you get more mana regen if you are around your teammates!" Crucible's active has a 180s cooldown, and it'd be hard to balance such a large active effect with some kind of passive activation condition ("every 25 spell casts, your next ally-targeted spell cleanses"?) It's the perfect kind of active -- it can swing the outcome of a teamfight, but if you don't use it effectively, you're gimped for the next 3 minutes. I imagine they came up with the active first and then thought up of an item to put it on. The real question isn't "what is a better active/passive to put on a chalice upgrade" but rather "what base stats would make more sense to put this active on". And those base stats can't be too good, or else the active is way too overpowered (see: 5x GA teams in s2), and the stats should be something that supports would like, but not other classes.
err- why not both ?
i wasnt saying to ditch the crucible's active, i think i said later in the thing i think that it is great but could work better as a high tier item made out of more expensive things like giants belt or something - but chalice should not be its build up.
i was proposing it split into 2 items, different passive for the active, and different active for the chalice
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On November 27 2012 23:48 adriftt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 15:50 OutlaW- wrote:On November 27 2012 15:38 TheYango wrote:On November 27 2012 15:19 OutlaW- wrote:On November 27 2012 14:38 justiceknight wrote:
does any1 has a video tutorial that teaches u how to CS like a boss? I always see progamers' have very good farm like the value of CS is more than the game timer (eg: 200 cs in 20 mins) i really dont understand what part of CSing needs a tutorial, it's simply a mechanic that you need to practice for yourself. If you're talking about farming in general, then try not to miss any waves by pushing your lane into the enemy's turret before doing other stuff like roaming or basing. The reason good mid laners consistently have 200 creeps in 20 minutes is because they take a wraith/wolf camp after pushing the wave. I'm not sure about the numbers exactly but I think like 230~ creeps spawn in 20 minutes, so you're still able to roam a little bit. Just push the wave and farm the jungler while you're not losing anything. Of course, often it's much better to just go gank a lane instead of farming a wraith, which is one of the reasons why you don't always see this numbers in soloq. For top lanerz, it's when they aren't forced to take the other guy's turret or to help their team, so they just stay top lane all day and farm. This isn't always (often actually) the best course of action so I advise comparing creep scores to your opponent, not some random number Also, I can't watch riven because he's only 14. I don't feel when when someone this young is better at the game than me. :x The main "difficulty" of getting high CS scores in a long game isn't really mechanical, but rather finding space to farm, and good moments to farm between fights. This isn't so much something you can teach more than something you get a feel for as you play. As you get a sense of your own tempo, you pick up on times when/how you can maximize your farm, corresponding to the ebb and flow of the lanes. Though tbh in a lot of low level games there's a ton of wasted farm in a lot of places. People don't push out waves cleanly, let huge waves of creeps push into their towers while they're pushing as a team (if you're not pushing out your lanes before you push and big waves get wasted on your towers, you might waste just as much farm as pushing a tower as a team is worth), and do generally inefficient things like taking their jungler's wraiths while there's uncontested farm mid for them to take. I agree, but if your mechanics aren't good then you won't be hitting those 10/100 creep scores anyway. People, even pros, frequently miss at least 20 creeps in the laning phase just by poor mechanics alone, and honestly, so do I. TBH a big part of CS is being able to set it up so there aren't any that are impossible. IE: pay attention to what creeps are taking damage and if two are going to die at around the same time start autoing one early so you don't miss one due to auto attack cooldown. paying attention to little things like that can help your CS a lot. also just controlling the wave so you don't get pushed into tower.. if you are playing against someone that pushes hard start spamming autos on the creeps to mitigate it somewhat
This is so important to know I feel.
So many people get into the mindset that you should ONLY last hit, especially as AD Carry. For a while I played like that and going up against someone shoving the wave really hard was almost IMPOSSIBLE to keep up on CS under tower and it was one of the most frustrating things ever. It was weird, I almost never had the issue mid because I always try to wave clear and roam, and it just never carried over to when I played AD Carry or Top.
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On November 28 2012 00:20 spellsy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 23:42 thenexusp wrote:On November 27 2012 20:59 spellsy wrote:On November 27 2012 20:35 UniversalSnip wrote:
I can see how that's kind of at cross purposes, because you wouldn't want to buy a niche stat on a hero it doesn't do much for when you're trying to get an item for it's utility. You do run into a problem, though, where if you never put niche stats on major utility items heroes that need those niche stats have restricted access to items with utility. for example, suppose none of the support items involved paying for mana regen. Leona and ali might benefit, but suddenly sona is screwed. Now suppose half of them do, you're just moving the scale back and forth.
If anyone has insight into dota costing I wonder how they deal with this, since generally itemization is a lot better in that game. The utility seems to be extremely dominant over stats on them (for example force staff costs like 2200 but only gives something like 1k worth of int as far as stats as I recall) but I really don't know what the math is like. yea i just think like the active should more accurately correspond with the stats. so like if i was looking to build something out of chalice, i think of something more oriented to spammy type supports. i wrote this as kinda follow up: + Show Spoiler +idk i think it would be cool if the chalice item built into something that rewarded high casting supports, like lulu, soraka, janna, and esp sona [nami?]. maybe something like guinsoo rageblade esque where you cast more and more spells and it stacks up giving you something, even if it was just mana regen or something to synergize with the "chalice" niche.
or even something better like a cast based statikk's shiv, where after like 5 casts or something your next ally targeted spell shoots a healing wave or something. or after 5 casts the next cast is 25% quicker cd. or after casting 10 times you can active the item for a "casting frenzy" where your spells have -10% cd for next 5 sec, like a ghostblade for supports!
i think with the inclusion of like melee only and ranged only items riot wouldnt be against items which proc based on ally targeted spells ?
i understand that riot doesnt want to make oto many "passive interaction" items like auras etc., as they've been moving most support items to active items, but I think they have almost oversaturated it as often i have 4-5 activatable items at the end of a game, i think that an impactful interaction - but not active would be cool, something like a "every x times you do y" or just a "when this condition, this special interaction happens", even if it was like "you get more mana regen if you are around your teammates!" Crucible's active has a 180s cooldown, and it'd be hard to balance such a large active effect with some kind of passive activation condition ("every 25 spell casts, your next ally-targeted spell cleanses"?) It's the perfect kind of active -- it can swing the outcome of a teamfight, but if you don't use it effectively, you're gimped for the next 3 minutes. I imagine they came up with the active first and then thought up of an item to put it on. The real question isn't "what is a better active/passive to put on a chalice upgrade" but rather "what base stats would make more sense to put this active on". And those base stats can't be too good, or else the active is way too overpowered (see: 5x GA teams in s2), and the stats should be something that supports would like, but not other classes. err- why not both ? i wasnt saying to ditch the crucible's active, i think i said later in the thing i think that it is great but could work better as a high tier item made out of more expensive things like giants belt or something - but chalice should not be its build up. i was proposing it split into 2 items, different passive for the active, and different active for the chalice
I wouldn't want crucible to be expensive -- it'd be out of reach for supports to get and saving up gold for a giant's belt would also be pretty awkward. It'd turn into an item the mid or top gets rather than an item that the support gets. Which might be fine, but is probably not Riot's goal in designing this item (they have said they wanted better support itemization, so this is part of it)
EDIT: new brand and morde splashes, I thought morde just got a new splash recently? http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/22478-pbe-changes-for-11-26-new-brand-jack-of-hearts
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/N7IJFh.jpg)
This is blatant sexualism. Look at how ripped he is and how much it focuses on his junk. No real guy can ever live up to those expectations, it's like a this game is just designed for horny teenage girls.
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United States37500 Posts
i c wat u did thar, Req.
hue hue hue
Edit: Riot's Art dept working overtime, jebus. Highly approve of all 3 new splash art. All the feels from the visuals. +1
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On November 28 2012 00:20 spellsy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 23:42 thenexusp wrote:On November 27 2012 20:59 spellsy wrote:On November 27 2012 20:35 UniversalSnip wrote:
I can see how that's kind of at cross purposes, because you wouldn't want to buy a niche stat on a hero it doesn't do much for when you're trying to get an item for it's utility. You do run into a problem, though, where if you never put niche stats on major utility items heroes that need those niche stats have restricted access to items with utility. for example, suppose none of the support items involved paying for mana regen. Leona and ali might benefit, but suddenly sona is screwed. Now suppose half of them do, you're just moving the scale back and forth.
If anyone has insight into dota costing I wonder how they deal with this, since generally itemization is a lot better in that game. The utility seems to be extremely dominant over stats on them (for example force staff costs like 2200 but only gives something like 1k worth of int as far as stats as I recall) but I really don't know what the math is like. yea i just think like the active should more accurately correspond with the stats. so like if i was looking to build something out of chalice, i think of something more oriented to spammy type supports. i wrote this as kinda follow up: + Show Spoiler +idk i think it would be cool if the chalice item built into something that rewarded high casting supports, like lulu, soraka, janna, and esp sona [nami?]. maybe something like guinsoo rageblade esque where you cast more and more spells and it stacks up giving you something, even if it was just mana regen or something to synergize with the "chalice" niche.
or even something better like a cast based statikk's shiv, where after like 5 casts or something your next ally targeted spell shoots a healing wave or something. or after 5 casts the next cast is 25% quicker cd. or after casting 10 times you can active the item for a "casting frenzy" where your spells have -10% cd for next 5 sec, like a ghostblade for supports!
i think with the inclusion of like melee only and ranged only items riot wouldnt be against items which proc based on ally targeted spells ?
i understand that riot doesnt want to make oto many "passive interaction" items like auras etc., as they've been moving most support items to active items, but I think they have almost oversaturated it as often i have 4-5 activatable items at the end of a game, i think that an impactful interaction - but not active would be cool, something like a "every x times you do y" or just a "when this condition, this special interaction happens", even if it was like "you get more mana regen if you are around your teammates!" Crucible's active has a 180s cooldown, and it'd be hard to balance such a large active effect with some kind of passive activation condition ("every 25 spell casts, your next ally-targeted spell cleanses"?) It's the perfect kind of active -- it can swing the outcome of a teamfight, but if you don't use it effectively, you're gimped for the next 3 minutes. I imagine they came up with the active first and then thought up of an item to put it on. The real question isn't "what is a better active/passive to put on a chalice upgrade" but rather "what base stats would make more sense to put this active on". And those base stats can't be too good, or else the active is way too overpowered (see: 5x GA teams in s2), and the stats should be something that supports would like, but not other classes. err- why not both ? i wasnt saying to ditch the crucible's active, i think i said later in the thing i think that it is great but could work better as a high tier item made out of more expensive things like giants belt or something - but chalice should not be its build up. i was proposing it split into 2 items, different passive for the active, and different active for the chalice
Crucible, pickpocket, the list goes on.
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Well i'd argue than any guy can work hard enough to get ripped, but brand has an 8 pack, which whether or not it shows in that manner is genetic. so yeah wooo req.
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On November 28 2012 00:51 Requizen wrote:This is blatant sexualism. Look at how ripped he is and how much it focuses on his junk. No real guy can ever live up to those expectations, it's like a this game is just designed for horny teenage girls.
Everyone knows real male sexualization has blonde hair and spams "you belong in a museum"
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On November 28 2012 01:04 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 00:51 Requizen wrote:This is blatant sexualism. Look at how ripped he is and how much it focuses on his junk. No real guy can ever live up to those expectations, it's like a this game is just designed for horny teenage girls. Everyone knows real male sexualization has blonde hair and spams "you belong in a museum"
And always talks about how much skill he has. It's all skill. Skill skill skill skill skill skill museum skill.
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note the subtle use of the fire and burning theme which links closely to the word "hot", which has dual meaning the other of which means "sexually attractive"
cooincidence? I think not.
riot undermining young males self esteem so they buy skins from their store to feel better about themselves
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United States15536 Posts
On November 28 2012 01:13 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 01:04 thenexusp wrote:On November 28 2012 00:51 Requizen wrote:This is blatant sexualism. Look at how ripped he is and how much it focuses on his junk. No real guy can ever live up to those expectations, it's like a this game is just designed for horny teenage girls. Everyone knows real male sexualization has blonde hair and spams "you belong in a museum" And always talks about how much skill he has. It's all skill. Skill skill skill skill skill skill museum skill.
Wrong. True male sexuality has gems and is truly outrageous.
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Watching Apro duo with Hafu was entertaining. For her being diamond, the gap skill wise between them is huuuge. I think this just might be the first person unable to carry her.
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Wasnt Aphro the person that carried her to high elo in the first place?
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I don't know honestly, but watched them lose three in a row. Even mixing it up to 2v1 top etc.
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On November 28 2012 00:51 Requizen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This is blatant sexualism. Look at how ripped he is and how much it focuses on his junk. No real guy can ever live up to those expectations, it's like a this game is just designed for horny teenage girls.
Brings new meaning to the terms "hot stuff".
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Am I the only one who thinks Diana is still OP as fuck ? Every time I see her she is stomping left and right, seems fucking easy, her damage is arguably higher than most other mid lane, her ult cd is ridiculous, her mobility is damn great, and she takes more damage than most mid lane.
And playing vs her is so obnoxious.
If someone have tips against her, I'd gladly hear them.
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On November 28 2012 01:44 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 00:51 Requizen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This is blatant sexualism. Look at how ripped he is and how much it focuses on his junk. No real guy can ever live up to those expectations, it's like a this game is just designed for horny teenage girls. Brings new meaning to the terms "hot stuff".
Brand new meaning even? 
Edit: Yeah Aphro and Hafu Duo'd a lot a couple of weeks ago, I think he raised her Elo quite a bit. She's not bad, but yeah the skill gap is pretty big 
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On November 28 2012 01:44 WhiteDog wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Diana is still OP as fuck ? Every time I see her she is stomping left and right, seems fucking easy, her damage is arguably higher than most other mid lane, her ult cd is ridiculous, her mobility is damn great, and she takes more damage than most mid lane.
And playing vs her is so obnoxious.
If someone have tips against her, I'd gladly hear them.
abuse her pre 6 with your auto attack. once shes 6 dont waste your cds until she actually jumps on you
other than that its just about dodging qs
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EPT
