Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 492

On October 28 2025 03:07 Ze'ev wrote:
Well, no. You misunderstood me: I wasn't saying if someone critisizes israel or even takes an anti zionist position that they're being antisemitic. I meant its being used as a screen to allow for antisemitism. Its effective camouflage. As to not hearing people calling it the worst genocide ever -- I see you are [very admirably] not super glued into online communities. You will see Israelis called demons, this the worst genocide ever and similar extremist hyperbole all over the internet if your online long enough. I'm also dating a jewish girl and as a consequence im aware of A) all the people who are saying antisemitic things as it spreads through the community b) all the instances of intimidation, dog whistles, and threats (for example posters being spread around toronto calling for the 'unmasking' of zionists and saying 'all zionists must be afraid') c) all the actual cases of violence. So yeah: there has been a huge mainstreaming of antisemitism on the left since october 7th and many well known figures have outed themselves either as antisemites or opportunists (and ofc the far right is doing this as well, im just focusing on the left because they claim to be anti racists so it hurts more).

I do think the obsession is rooted in antisemitism -- ok the u.s government or europe has complicity in it, but thats true of virtually every genocide on the globe. Name me a Government that fucks people up that the West isnt either directly giving arms to, funding, or engaging in economic relations with? Theres a few -- like north korea -- but only a few. We are implicated everywhere. I have lived through far more extensive genocides that implicated the u.s and the west and never seen so many people dedicate themselves with such hateful passion, never seen the mainstreaming of genocidal rhetoric (hasan: all Zionists should be treated as rabid neo-Nazis … you shouldn’t even let them be the local dog catcher." and similar such statements. Hasan is extremely popular and has been on CNN, hes treated as a respectable figure. Hes made a habit of supporting terrorism, suggesting that genocidal violence against jews is acceptable, using dog whistles and antisemitic slurs (inbred pig dogs etc) all with no real pushback by the establishment.) as with this conflict. Though that goes on both sides with the right happy to cheer on the deaths of palestinians or use the conflict to justify a crackdown on free speech.

As to Ireland or even Europe generally; antisemitism is a historically metastasizing ideology, it shapes itself to time and place. I'm sure the irish people have sincere humanistic concerns about Gaza, but lets not ignore well over a thousand years of antisemitism pushed by the catholic church which has deeply embedded itself into Irish society. Similarly; look beneath the surface of anti colonial and anti genocidal rhetoric and you will find unabashed antisemitism running rampant through the irish left and irish society more generally.

edit: and to be frank the dismissal of the mainstreaming of antisemitism so many people are quick to make smacks of condescension and white privilege: part of the issue with minorities is that: the average person doesn't know the history or the dog whistles or how any one group is associated with the larger history and framing as much as that minority group is. And minorities concerns can easily be drowned out because they are a minority, its very easy to do crazy making. If black people point out a dog whistle, you can dismiss that as trauma or weaponising racism against white people. Thats easy to do from a position of economic and racial privilege; your lifes not on the line, you don't need to understand, and so your empathy only goes so far. And thats precisely what has happened over the last two years; the jewish community points out well known tropes, bad faith actors and distortions, and are drowned out by a torrent of 'your exaggerating'. Happened to black people and trans people too, and now we have trump. I think if your reflex is to underplay the fear of an oppressed minority you should take a step back and think 'to what extent could my privilege and ignorance be blinding me to real concerns? Are my politics incentivizing me to ignore whats happening?'

Ofc this anti racist shit is never applied by the left to itself -- introspection is too hard and painful, and self righteous posturing too alluring an elixir to give up.

On October 30 2025 04:58 Ze'ev wrote:
Nope. ireland has been well known as having higher levels of antisemitism long before palestine. So has Spain -- the commonality here isnt anti colonialism its the domination of the catholic church in civil life. The catholic church was heavily antisemitic and they passed their beliefs on. Later, the Irish have had an exposure to colonial dominance and a genuine, well meaning humanistic disgust with imperialism/abuse/violence -- the existing undercurrent of antisemitism doesn't just disappear, nor is it 1:1 with that humanistic critique, rather it gets carried along with it. Some Antisemites in ireland dont give a fuck about anyone, its just conspiracy and rage. And most humanists in ireland arent antisemitic, they're concerned with anti colonial struggles. But there is quite a lot of crossover between the two groups: as with anything cultural, narratives get merged, repackaged, reinterpreted and help form the implicit undergrowth of new stories. Jews as exploiters/christ killers doesnt go away, it (in some but not all, or even a majority) merges with new myths about anti colonial violence.

On October 30 2025 04:58 Ze'ev wrote:
Nope. ireland has been well known as having higher levels of antisemitism long before palestine. So has Spain -- the commonality here isnt anti colonialism its the domination of the catholic church in civil life. The catholic church was heavily antisemitic and they passed their beliefs on. Later, the Irish have had an exposure to colonial dominance and a genuine, well meaning humanistic disgust with imperialism/abuse/violence -- the existing undercurrent of antisemitism doesn't just disappear, nor is it 1:1 with that humanistic critique, rather it gets carried along with it. Some Antisemites in ireland dont give a fuck about anyone, its just conspiracy and rage. And most humanists in ireland arent antisemitic, they're concerned with anti colonial struggles. But there is quite a lot of crossover between the two groups: as with anything cultural, narratives get merged, repackaged, reinterpreted and help form the implicit undergrowth of new stories. Jews as exploiters/christ killers doesnt go away, it (in some but not all, or even a majority) merges with new myths about anti colonial violence.

On October 30 2025 05:34 Acrofales wrote:
In fairness, Wombat isn't from Ireland, he's from Northern Ireland. And fairly consistently when he talks about his country, he's talking about the UK, and not Ireland.

That said, just browsing through ADL's atlas makes me highly suspicious of their methodology. For starters, Ireland is only high in Europe if you ignore most of Eastern and Southern Europe even if you do accept their methodology.

But their methodology seems flawed if they somehow manage to conclude that 30% of Brazilians and 25% of Bolivians and Japanese have anti-Semitic tendencies. The people in these countries have barely any contact with Judaism. If there's an anti-anything it could be anti-colonialism or general xenophobia, and their questionnaire is not good at distinguishing the two (I couldn't find a link to the questions on their questionnaire, but a press release mentioned pro-Hamas and pro-palestina sentiment as being part of one or more of their questions, which is suspect: you're already mixing geopolitics with race.

On October 30 2025 05:34 Acrofales wrote:
And I did notice also another more balanced research about incident reports. They specifically mentioned that they do NOT count anti-Israel sentiment or anti-Zionism as antisemitic incidents. But there anti-Semitic chants and slogans are on the rise at anti-Israel protests. Which is deplorable, but it's also ulnot particularly surprising. You go to a workers union protest and there will inevitably also be anti-capitalists, even tho the protest is about better healthcare for employees or whatever. If you were to find an increase in worker union protests (for instance in France over the past few years) and conclude that anti-capitalism is generally on the rise, I'd also say that you cannot conclude that. Maybe people just want their pensions to stay put and their healthcare to improve. Similarly, anti-Israel protests attract anti-Semites. It's sad, but it doesn't mean anti-Semitism is on the rise. Especially if Israel is giving people good reasons to be angry with them.

On October 30 2025 05:50 Nebuchad wrote:


The catholic church is for sure one of the main influences in antisemitic sentiment historically and today. It is going to be hard for me to buy it as a main influence for our current discussion topic though, as this is a discussion about a rise in antisemitism during a period in which the catholic church's influence is decreasing, not increasing, within a group that is understood to be mainly on the left, the part of the political spectrum that is known to be the least influenced by religion, rather than the most.