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On January 09 2021 23:56 KungKras wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2021 23:50 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 09 2021 23:40 Zambrah wrote:
A significant part of the working class just wants to be heard. There's no reason universal healthcare can't be pushed alongside things like a rural renewal program and a big increase to the minimum wage in order to appeal to disaffected working class voters.
I believe Trump won because he took discourse to their level and appeared to fight for them against a system that has been indifferent to the drastic Gilded Age economic inequality.
If we talked to them, made them feel listened to and cared about and like their problems matter we might be able to rebuild a working class Democrat coalition.
Obviously it's not easy, but everything the Democrats have been doing for decades to erode that working class Democrat coalition has to stop, and they need to go back and rebuild themselves to cater to them more. City liberals aren't going anywhere, any actual moderate Republicans won't be voting GOP for a bit (if they vote GOP after this within four years they were literally never not going to) so I think the best bet is be aggressive, communicate with rural communities and build a platform with the economically and politically disenfranchised at the core.
I'm not sure how likely any of this is given how bought and sold politicians are, but this is the only viable path I see that doesnt see a Republican equilibrium reestablished. And given their hearty commitment to fascism that cannot fucking be allowed to happen. Outside of the last paragrapher, I mostly agree. But again, it's an extremely hard task because again, the working class believes that stuff that would make their life really much better is awful socialism. That's where all the "radical" talks and the aggressively left wing packaging (I talk form, not content) is just stupid, and while I agree with all his policy proposals, I think Bernie's strategy was unsound. It's not about winning millenials, californians and well educated young people. It's about persuading the folks in poor towns in Ohio and Pennsylvania that a social safety net is for them too, and not only for some imaginary black welfare queen somewhere on the coast. Again. That's a tremendous task. I totally agree with you that the democrats need to pivot in their policies and communication and regain the working class. How they can achieve it, though I do not know, and I suspect the people that claim they do have no clue what they are talking about. It's extremely difficult. To me it seems like american culture needs to be updated since the days of the red scare. The red scare actually made sense when there was a Soviet Union trying to subvert democracy with different shady tactics. Today, the far right and facism are the forces trying to subvert democracy, so we need to flip all of that red scare paranoia to be against the far right instead.
Red scare tactics have always been about disciplining the left. They exist not because the Soviet Union is some sort of menace, but as a response to labor militancy at home. And the USA did far more to undermine democracy than is generally acknowledged. We shouldn’t try to bring it back, the USA can’t be trusted to use surveillance and security and paranoia embedded in some sort domestic anti-terrorism framework to improve the world in any way.
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Heres some levity; Turns out FLORIDA MAN was one of the insurrectionists! Turns out Florida Man was the one who stole the Speaker of the House's podium.
They arrested him in a county neighboring the one I grew up in. The US really feels small sometimes.
I look forward to seeing what kind of sentence he's going to get, because I guarantee it won't be nearly what he deserves.
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On January 10 2021 00:38 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 00:35 Slydie wrote:
I am fairly pessimistic about that "cater the rural working class" idea. Healthcare is obvious, but rural communities built on outdated industries are dying all over the world, and I don't think there is any easy solution. They also typically vote right-wing because they can't afford to pay taxes and feel those taxes don't do enough for them. They are right, but also because infrastructure and public service is much more expensive per capita when people live farther apart. They are destined to feel they get the short end of the stick. I've heard some people talking about a bunch of people moving rural to "work from home" with the housing being way cheaper. I'm sure that won't happen over night but even a trickle would help.
I think that this is something that will happen a lot, but i don't know if it will happen in absolutely nowhere, and i don't think it will help the people there a lot, either.
I think the extreme focus on megacities might be reduced with more people working digitally. But those people still want some of the comforts of living in a large city. I absolutely see new communities of millenials springing up in nowhere. Living space being an order of magnitude cheaper is a very attractive proposition. And if you don't move alone, you can still have the kind of surroundings you hope for in the bigger city.
But i don't know if a bunch of internet millenials building their own small town in a rural area actually helps the rural people who want coal jobs.
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Joe Biden's comment where he compares some of the Republicans (at first I typed out Nazi completely unconsciously, I was going to leave it off but I cant not mention it) to Goebbels has not aged well in light of the Republicans deciding that as a party they're thrilled with Trump and extremely happy to double down on him.
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1347913769276461064?s=20
It really makes things like, "we need a Republican party thats principled and strong," look REALLY, REALLY bad.
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On January 10 2021 01:26 Zambrah wrote:Joe Biden's comment where he compares some of the Republicans (at first I typed out Nazi completely unconsciously, I was going to leave it off but I cant not mention it) to Goebbels has not aged well in light of the Republicans deciding that as a party they're thrilled with Trump and extremely happy to double down on him. https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1347913769276461064?s=20It really makes things like, "we need a Republican party thats principled and strong," look REALLY, REALLY bad. He isn't wrong. A healthy Democracy needs multiple parties vying for the attention of voters.
Its just that the current Republican party is rotten to the core.
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On January 10 2021 01:32 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 01:26 Zambrah wrote:Joe Biden's comment where he compares some of the Republicans (at first I typed out Nazi completely unconsciously, I was going to leave it off but I cant not mention it) to Goebbels has not aged well in light of the Republicans deciding that as a party they're thrilled with Trump and extremely happy to double down on him. https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1347913769276461064?s=20It really makes things like, "we need a Republican party thats principled and strong," look REALLY, REALLY bad. He isn't wrong. A healthy Democracy needs multiple parties vying for the attention of voters. Its just that the current Republican party is rotten to the core.
Yeah, but this of all times to call for a strong Republican party this has got to be one of the worst ones. It didnt look quite as bad til they doubled down on Trumping it up though. After there little powwow indicating they love Trump and think everything he did has been great for them the idea of a "strong Republican party," should absolutely scare the SHIT out of anyone with an ounce of anti-fascist sentiment.
EDIT: Theres a memo from the DoD, and theyve decided to label the armed insurrection, "The First Amendment Protests in Washington DC,"
https://twitter.com/navybook/status/1347908922292768771?s=20
Fascists are already trying to rewrite history. WE CANNOT PLAY NICE WITH REPUBLICANS.
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Well I can't say I am unhappy with the official drafts being pulled up against Trump. I still think he miscalculated the anger of his mob, (he was trying to erase as much campaign debt as he could following election night,) but at the end of the day its on him, so fuck him for dividing the nation to unprecedented levels.
I also think the republicans are fucked for the next decade unless they can get a few great rebound leaders that disavow the garbage platform they have been running. Because the fear I have is that the less educated, perhaps > far right section of the party doubles down on the conspiracies and continues to make gains. Trump just left an ocean sized abyss for ANYONE to jump in and become the shiny new object.
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On January 10 2021 01:44 Husyelt wrote:
Well I can't say I am unhappy with the official drafts being pulled up against Trump. I still think he miscalculated the anger of his mob, (he was trying to erase as much campaign debt as he could following election night,) but at the end of the day its on him, so fuck him for dividing the nation to unprecedented levels.
I also think the republicans are fucked for the next decade unless they can get a few great rebound leaders that disavow the garbage platform they have been running. Because the fear I have is that the less educated, perhaps > far right section of the party doubles down on the conspiracies and continues to make gains. Trump just left an ocean sized abyss for ANYONE to jump in and become the shiny new object.
GOP hasn’t had too many impressive leaders though. Trump was easily more charismatic (in an unhinged racist way) than any GOP competition since ..maybe Bush. Or maybe since Reagan.
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On January 10 2021 01:52 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 01:44 Husyelt wrote:
Well I can't say I am unhappy with the official drafts being pulled up against Trump. I still think he miscalculated the anger of his mob, (he was trying to erase as much campaign debt as he could following election night,) but at the end of the day its on him, so fuck him for dividing the nation to unprecedented levels.
I also think the republicans are fucked for the next decade unless they can get a few great rebound leaders that disavow the garbage platform they have been running. Because the fear I have is that the less educated, perhaps > far right section of the party doubles down on the conspiracies and continues to make gains. Trump just left an ocean sized abyss for ANYONE to jump in and become the shiny new object. GOP hasn’t had too many impressive leaders though. Trump was easily more charismatic (in an unhinged racist way) than any GOP competition since ..maybe Bush. Or maybe since Reagan.
Im sure theyll find their next Trump, if theres one thing the Republicans are good at its flexibility. Be it picking leaders or morals.
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On January 10 2021 01:52 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 01:44 Husyelt wrote:
Well I can't say I am unhappy with the official drafts being pulled up against Trump. I still think he miscalculated the anger of his mob, (he was trying to erase as much campaign debt as he could following election night,) but at the end of the day its on him, so fuck him for dividing the nation to unprecedented levels.
I also think the republicans are fucked for the next decade unless they can get a few great rebound leaders that disavow the garbage platform they have been running. Because the fear I have is that the less educated, perhaps > far right section of the party doubles down on the conspiracies and continues to make gains. Trump just left an ocean sized abyss for ANYONE to jump in and become the shiny new object. GOP hasn’t had too many impressive leaders though. Trump was easily more charismatic (in an unhinged racist way) than any GOP competition since ..maybe Bush. Or maybe since Reagan.
To be totally fair, outside Bill Clinton and Obama, the Democratic party hasn't had that many charismatic leaders either in the last couple of decades. Maybe uber charismatic folks like those are simply incredibly rare.
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On January 10 2021 01:15 Zambrah wrote:
Heres some levity; Turns out FLORIDA MAN was one of the insurrectionists! Turns out Florida Man was the one who stole the Speaker of the House's podium. On January 10 2021 01:26 Zambrah wrote:
It really makes things like, "we need a Republican party thats principled and strong," look REALLY, REALLY bad. On January 10 2021 01:33 Zambrah wrote:Fascists are already trying to rewrite history. WE CANNOT PLAY NICE WITH REPUBLICANS.
Why are you TYPING LIKE THIS? Why do you want to SOUND LIKE TRUMP? Sad.
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On January 10 2021 02:51 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 01:15 Zambrah wrote:
Heres some levity; Turns out FLORIDA MAN was one of the insurrectionists! Turns out Florida Man was the one who stole the Speaker of the House's podium. Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 01:26 Zambrah wrote:
It really makes things like, "we need a Republican party thats principled and strong," look REALLY, REALLY bad. Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 01:33 Zambrah wrote:Fascists are already trying to rewrite history. WE CANNOT PLAY NICE WITH REPUBLICANS. Why are you TYPING LIKE THIS? Why do you want to SOUND LIKE TRUMP? Sad.
Because its too much work to type the bb code for bold, and I like to add emphasis. 
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You can just select the text you want to bold and press ctrl + b, but I find bolded words more obtrusive than those written in all caps so please don't change your ways.
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On January 10 2021 03:02 Sent. wrote:
You can just select the text you want to bold and press ctrl + b, but I find bolded words more obtrusive than those written in all caps so please don't change your ways.
My mouses clicking is busted, unfortunately clicking is kind of a pain in the ass and often results in a lot of accidental double clicks, lol.
I'd also consider just italicizing if not for this issue, but tis the nature of things
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On January 10 2021 03:07 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 03:02 Sent. wrote:
You can just select the text you want to bold and press ctrl + b, but I find bolded words more obtrusive than those written in all caps so please don't change your ways. My mouses clicking is busted, unfortunately clicking is kind of a pain in the ass and often results in a lot of accidental double clicks, lol. I'd also consider just italicizing if not for this issue, but tis the nature of things
I think you should write in bold italized all caps characters only from now on so that everyone can agree.
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On January 10 2021 03:09 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 03:07 Zambrah wrote:On January 10 2021 03:02 Sent. wrote:
You can just select the text you want to bold and press ctrl + b, but I find bolded words more obtrusive than those written in all caps so please don't change your ways. My mouses clicking is busted, unfortunately clicking is kind of a pain in the ass and often results in a lot of accidental double clicks, lol. I'd also consider just italicizing if not for this issue, but tis the nature of things I think you should write in bold italized all caps characters only from now on so that everyone can agree.
If I do that I'm going to go full Skweezy Jibbs copy cat, don't tempt me lol
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On January 10 2021 03:10 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 03:09 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 10 2021 03:07 Zambrah wrote:On January 10 2021 03:02 Sent. wrote:
You can just select the text you want to bold and press ctrl + b, but I find bolded words more obtrusive than those written in all caps so please don't change your ways. My mouses clicking is busted, unfortunately clicking is kind of a pain in the ass and often results in a lot of accidental double clicks, lol. I'd also consider just italicizing if not for this issue, but tis the nature of things I think you should write in bold italized all caps characters only from now on so that everyone can agree. If I do that I'm going to go full Skweezy Jibbs copy cat, don't tempt me lol
The lulz would be considerable though.
We don't want to lose you though. Don't do it.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 10 2021 03:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 03:10 Zambrah wrote:On January 10 2021 03:09 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 10 2021 03:07 Zambrah wrote:On January 10 2021 03:02 Sent. wrote:
You can just select the text you want to bold and press ctrl + b, but I find bolded words more obtrusive than those written in all caps so please don't change your ways. My mouses clicking is busted, unfortunately clicking is kind of a pain in the ass and often results in a lot of accidental double clicks, lol. I'd also consider just italicizing if not for this issue, but tis the nature of things I think you should write in bold italized all caps characters only from now on so that everyone can agree. If I do that I'm going to go full Skweezy Jibbs copy cat, don't tempt me lol The lulz would be considerable though. We don't want to lose you though. Don't do it. + Show Spoiler +
Yeah, I'm not sure I want to feel the cold steel of Seeker's ban hammer on my temple any time soon, lol
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On January 10 2021 03:16 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2021 03:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 10 2021 03:10 Zambrah wrote:On January 10 2021 03:09 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 10 2021 03:07 Zambrah wrote:On January 10 2021 03:02 Sent. wrote:
You can just select the text you want to bold and press ctrl + b, but I find bolded words more obtrusive than those written in all caps so please don't change your ways. My mouses clicking is busted, unfortunately clicking is kind of a pain in the ass and often results in a lot of accidental double clicks, lol. I'd also consider just italicizing if not for this issue, but tis the nature of things I think you should write in bold italized all caps characters only from now on so that everyone can agree. If I do that I'm going to go full Skweezy Jibbs copy cat, don't tempt me lol The lulz would be considerable though. We don't want to lose you though. Don't do it. + Show Spoiler + Yeah, I'm not sure I want to feel the cold steel of Seeker's ban hammer on my temple any time soon, lol
ETT's hurts considerably more, you gotta believe me.
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EPT
