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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Yurie
12186 Posts
On August 14 2019 04:49 Mohdoo wrote: Oops, prince *Andrew, right? ... Considering how often an individual is tied to an account online I would suggest not publicly keeping your second statement. It could have consequences further down the line. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 14 2019 05:15 Yurie wrote: Considering how often an individual is tied to an account online I would suggest not publicly keeping your second statement. It could have consequences further down the line. Removed and thanks | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18494 Posts
On August 14 2019 05:15 Falling wrote: I would not. Too quick and easy, and I would want to see anyone else complicit in his perversity brought low. I really don't think you could set a price on that for me. I don't know how much a random convict cares about any of that. He's a scumbag and someone is paying a LOT of money to shiv him... Sure, some of them would rather see him and his whole group of pervy friends suffer, but there will be plenty who start sharpening their toothbrushes... | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 14 2019 05:39 Acrofales wrote: I don't know how much a random convict cares about any of that. He's a scumbag and someone is paying a LOT of money to shiv him... Sure, some of them would rather see him and his whole group of pervy friends suffer, but there will be plenty who start sharpening their toothbrushes... Based on all the "well that's strange" things going on with the prison personnel, I am assuming people working for the prison got bought off. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On August 14 2019 05:41 Mohdoo wrote: Based on all the "well that's strange" things going on with the prison personnel, I am assuming people working for the prison got bought off. Yeah as much as I'd like to believe everybody is altruistic, 0.1% of a billionaire's money is likely more than most people working in that prison would make in a decade, and often more than they would make in a lifetime. I have a hard time believing that you couldn't buy people off for that kind of money. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On August 14 2019 05:41 Mohdoo wrote: Based on all the "well that's strange" things going on with the prison personnel, I am assuming people working for the prison got bought off. The hardest part about paying off low level criminals like prison guards is that they are too stupid not to spend it. So you don't pay off the people who actually do the thing. You pay off their bosses and the "system" does the dirty work. The guards that are the most responsible for him being unattended likely weren't paid or in on it at all, they were likely intentionally put in a situation to fail because failure could be expected from them (sounds like they were overworked and understaffed). Really that applies to the prison as a whole as well. Those that feared him talking likely helped him end up in that facility in the first place. Investigations will all focus on what happened after the person/people that wanted him dead made their move and the fallout, not the move itself. EDIT: To me as "conspiracy theory" as some people want to label people skeptical of Epstein's alleged suicide, it's a lot harder for me to believe that a cadre of the wealthiest and most powerful people on the planet just hoped and prayed Epstein didn't implicate them (and/or destroy them entirely). | ||
Falling
Canada11607 Posts
On August 14 2019 05:39 Acrofales wrote: I don't know how much a random convict cares about any of that. He's a scumbag and someone is paying a LOT of money to shiv him... Sure, some of them would rather see him and his whole group of pervy friends suffer, but there will be plenty who start sharpening their toothbrushes... I wasn't under the impression that he was with the general prison populace, and my comments were in the context about staff/ guards being bought off. | ||
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Muliphein
49 Posts
This does indicate that Epstein was not afraid of the guards or someone else murdering him. But either of his prisonmate (apparently a crocked cop that murdered someone) doing it. Or he wanted to commit suicide and his prison mate was in the way. If he thought that his co-conspirators were going to murder him, he wouldn't have wanted to be alone in his cell, right? But then we have these three irregularities happening all together. Most likely case is that they knew he wanted to commit suicide and they just let him. And how that then was arranged or communicated? I doubt some billionaire paid someone high up in the prison management 0.1% of their net worth to make it happen. It's more like people there know it is better that he just dies. And apparently they forgot about the outrage and the consequences for their job/life. And apparently, it is really hard to prevent a dedicated person from committing suicide. That's what I saw one person who treated suicidal prisoners said. Suicide watch apparently induces suicide. Now, they were able to keep Khalid Sheikh Mohammed alive for a decade while waterboarding him 183 times. Similarly, they still have dozens in Gitmo, some of them very likely innocent. And granted, some of them did commit suicide there, but they didn't all manage to do so in a few weeks. So I am kind of confused about that. The thing with conspiracy theories is that they get leaked. If you are a billionaire and had sex parties with Epstein and you want him gone, you don't suddenly have the resources and connections to make it happen. And getting caught trying to murder Epstein when you are Bill Clinton or someone similar doesn't really improve your situation. Trump raped people and he got elected president. They they have a system to extort each other, I believe that. That they have a system to cleanly get a prison guard to murder Epstein and make it look like suicide, more doubtful. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4463 Posts
On August 14 2019 01:02 Acrofales wrote: Also depends on how he allegedly killed himself. If he hung himself, then screaming seems unlikely. If, however, he found some ragged sharp object and ripped his wrists open, I can imagine a fair amount of screaming... The reports were he hung himself on the bedpost.Shouldnt be able to get anything sharp unless someone gave it to him inside.Which should be easily provable if security footage exists. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
They're literally fucking with us. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-jail-officers.html The two staff members who were guarding the jail unit where Jeffrey Epstein apparently killed himself fell asleep and failed to check on him for about three hours, then falsified records to cover up their mistake, according to several law enforcement and prison officials with knowledge of the matter. Your kids get a free ride through college anywhere he wants, anywhere in the world, You can live in a penthouse rent free, just make a "mistake" at work. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On August 14 2019 16:26 Lmui wrote: I know we all saw it coming but come on. They're literally fucking with us. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-jail-officers.html Your kids get a free ride through college anywhere he wants, anywhere in the world, You can live in a penthouse rent free, just make a "mistake" at work. Personally I think the machinations would be executed at a higher/different tier. Wouldn't be surprised to see those guys hung out to dry. Either way taxpayers are probably paying out his civil suit | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On August 14 2019 19:09 iamthedave wrote: I should have guessed there'd be a conspiracy theory about Epstein's suicide. There's a lot of em but I think the important part that isn't speculation anymore is that it's at minimum bureaucratic/negligent manslaughter that's probably going to draw attention to the deplorable state of both local and federal prisons (for the wrong reasons). | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On August 14 2019 19:09 iamthedave wrote: Its hard not get conspiracy theories when an extreme high profile prisoner commits suicide while on suicide watch.I should have guessed there'd be a conspiracy theory about Epstein's suicide. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On August 14 2019 19:26 Gorsameth wrote: Its hard not get conspiracy theories when an extreme high profile prisoner commits suicide while on suicide watch. Which prisoner do you talk about? I thought the conversation here was about Epstein, but he wasn't on suicide watch, so you got me kinda confused. Or did I miss the /s tags, and you wanted to show how easy it is to start conspiracy theories by first making up stuff? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Pangpootata
1838 Posts
On August 14 2019 23:00 JimmiC wrote: The state of the prison is not a surprise. Most prisons in the developed world have changed even their beds to stop this kind of suicide. As another user posted, suicide watch has even been shown to increase the amounts of suicide. The American prison system is a abject failure on every level. If this somehow changes the minimum requirements then it would be worth it. The for profit system is the worst, they are encouraged to get the maximum prisons, get repeat customers and keep them as long as possible. Exactly what you don't want in a correctional facility system. I bet if you investigated the last 20 suicides in that facility you would find the same neglect and BS. I think it's mostly a separate issue from Epstein's suicide, but yes the US prison system is terrible. The US has the highest adult incarceration rates in the world. Some local judges are bought by prison owners to send them business. Guards are underpaid, conditions are terrible, and prisoners don't have a proper avenue to seek recourse for abuse by guards or other prisoners. Dropping the soap is dangerous. Free markets work well for most things, but not security-related government functions. That being said, the other extreme is not good as well - western european comfy hotel rooms for serial killers to live out the rest of their lives peacefully on taxpayer money. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On August 14 2019 23:24 Pangpootata wrote: I'll gladly pay for a dozen killers to spend the rest of their life in a 'comfy hotel room' if it means thousands of people get to have a life after prison.I think it's mostly a separate issue from Epstein's suicide, but yes the US prison system is terrible. The US has the highest adult incarceration rates in the world. Some local judges are bought by prison owners to send them business. Guards are underpaid, conditions are terrible, and prisoners don't have a proper avenue to seek recourse for abuse by guards or other prisoners. Dropping the soap is dangerous. Free markets work well for most things, but not security-related government functions. That being said, the other extreme is not good as well - western european comfy hotel rooms for serial killers to live out the rest of their lives peacefully on taxpayer money. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On August 14 2019 23:37 Gorsameth wrote: I'll gladly pay for a dozen killers to spend the rest of their life in a 'comfy hotel room' if it means thousands of people get to have a life after prison. At this point I'm pretty sure someone could argue a return to the code of hammurabi would be more ethical than what we have going on in the US. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28929 Posts
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