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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On August 13 2019 17:51 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2019 17:25 Neneu wrote:On August 13 2019 16:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 16:20 Neneu wrote:On August 13 2019 01:10 Ayaz2810 wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, it will be disappeared. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, people will not trust it. On August 13 2019 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. So what became of those Panama papers? Because in a week the 24/7 news cycle will have moved on to something else and 'the public' will stop giving a shit and poof, its gone as if nothing happened. A few examples of what became of the Panama papers: - In Panama, police raided law firm Mossack Fonseca and arrested its founders on charges of money laundering.
- In New Zealand, an inquiry called the country's trust laws "inadequate" and parliament strengthened laws to fight tax evasion and money laundering. The number of foreign trusts in New Zealand fell by three-quarters.
- In Mongolia, MongolTV reported the resignation of capital city council chairman, Sandui Tsendsuren. He joined a list of political casualties from Iceland, Pakistan, Spain and beyond.
- In the U.K, a taskforce told parliament that it had investigated dozens of people for tax evasion, arrested four others and would recover $252 million in backtaxes and fines.
- In Belgium, police raided a state-run bank whose former subsididary helped clients set up more than 1,500 offshore companies.
- In Indonesia, the government decreed that all companies must reveal their true owners. The country was one of a number that introduced new rules to combat corruption and other illicit activities.
- In Côte d'Ivoire, the ruling cabinet sacked a city mayor for alleged embezzlement after new investigations by ICIJ's partners.
- A second later leak from Mossack Fonseca in June 2018 shed light on several unknown criminal investigations.
- In Algeria, prosecutors opened a money laundering probe into a milk mogul and sought Switzerland's help to obtain bank records.
- In Colombia, the tax office doubled its revenue collection after the Panama Papers encouraged citizens to report hidden assets.
- In Germany, 170 police raided the headquarters of Deutsche Bank as part of a money laundering investigation. The probe focused on whether the bank, Germany's biggest, helped clients set up offshore accounts to transfer money from criminal activities. It was one of the investigations that has crippled Deutsche Bank to become what it is today.
- In March 2019 authorities in the United States arrested the first known taxpayer for his involvement in an alleged "decades-long criminal scheme."
- Also March 2019: In South Korea, prosecutors opened a bribery case into contracts with a Turkish arms dealer. In Vancouver, the Canada Revenue Agency executed search warrants as part of a $77 million tax evasion probe. In Sweden, banking giant Swedbank’s top management reportedly withheld information from American investigators relating to the Panama Papers.
More than $1.2 billion has been recouped in 22 countries. Investigations were sparked in more than 82 countries. So things are being done. People are being criminally charged, corrupt banks are being crippled, and high-ranking politicians have lost their job. To quote Juliana Londoño Vélez from UC Berkeley who researches public finance and labor economics: I think it is fair to infer that this shows leaks can have a massive impact on tax compliance, through deterrence and fear of being detected. That's a rather unimpressive list imo, particularly with consideration to the scope of the leak. 1.2 billion is a rounding error on a settlement for a bank in the US (not that any of that list seems to pertain to the US?). Deutsche bank is basically a criminal enterprise that continues mostly unabated despite countless confirmations of their criminal activity. If that is an unimpressive list, I would like to know what your perception of an impressive list is. Since e.g. the doubling of tax revenue for Colombia is a rather big change for a country. Deutsche Bank has been crippled to a such extent that they are a mere shadow of what they were in the mid 2000. I know it takes some time before things happen, but a shit-ton of documents takes shit-ton of time to investigate (especially in criminal cases, which requires a higher standard of evidence than media requires). superficially maybe, but they still wield over a trillion dollars in assets by themselves (dwarfing the 1.2b figure). Most of their "collapse" came long before the Panama papers as well. Also while I'd concede that's significant for Columbia, what on your list (or a larger one) did it yield in the US?
Didn't it help yield Trump with his talk of draining the swamp and making Clinton part of the people you question what happened to?
Thus directly helping them recover anything they might have lost and a bit more.
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On August 13 2019 17:25 Neneu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2019 16:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 16:20 Neneu wrote:On August 13 2019 01:10 Ayaz2810 wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, it will be disappeared. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, people will not trust it. On August 13 2019 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. So what became of those Panama papers? Because in a week the 24/7 news cycle will have moved on to something else and 'the public' will stop giving a shit and poof, its gone as if nothing happened. A few examples of what became of the Panama papers: - In Panama, police raided law firm Mossack Fonseca and arrested its founders on charges of money laundering.
- In New Zealand, an inquiry called the country's trust laws "inadequate" and parliament strengthened laws to fight tax evasion and money laundering. The number of foreign trusts in New Zealand fell by three-quarters.
- In Mongolia, MongolTV reported the resignation of capital city council chairman, Sandui Tsendsuren. He joined a list of political casualties from Iceland, Pakistan, Spain and beyond.
- In the U.K, a taskforce told parliament that it had investigated dozens of people for tax evasion, arrested four others and would recover $252 million in backtaxes and fines.
- In Belgium, police raided a state-run bank whose former subsididary helped clients set up more than 1,500 offshore companies.
- In Indonesia, the government decreed that all companies must reveal their true owners. The country was one of a number that introduced new rules to combat corruption and other illicit activities.
- In Côte d'Ivoire, the ruling cabinet sacked a city mayor for alleged embezzlement after new investigations by ICIJ's partners.
- A second later leak from Mossack Fonseca in June 2018 shed light on several unknown criminal investigations.
- In Algeria, prosecutors opened a money laundering probe into a milk mogul and sought Switzerland's help to obtain bank records.
- In Colombia, the tax office doubled its revenue collection after the Panama Papers encouraged citizens to report hidden assets.
- In Germany, 170 police raided the headquarters of Deutsche Bank as part of a money laundering investigation. The probe focused on whether the bank, Germany's biggest, helped clients set up offshore accounts to transfer money from criminal activities. It was one of the investigations that has crippled Deutsche Bank to become what it is today.
- In March 2019 authorities in the United States arrested the first known taxpayer for his involvement in an alleged "decades-long criminal scheme."
- Also March 2019: In South Korea, prosecutors opened a bribery case into contracts with a Turkish arms dealer. In Vancouver, the Canada Revenue Agency executed search warrants as part of a $77 million tax evasion probe. In Sweden, banking giant Swedbank’s top management reportedly withheld information from American investigators relating to the Panama Papers.
More than $1.2 billion has been recouped in 22 countries. Investigations were sparked in more than 82 countries. So things are being done. People are being criminally charged, corrupt banks are being crippled, and high-ranking politicians have lost their job. To quote Juliana Londoño Vélez from UC Berkeley who researches public finance and labor economics: I think it is fair to infer that this shows leaks can have a massive impact on tax compliance, through deterrence and fear of being detected. That's a rather unimpressive list imo, particularly with consideration to the scope of the leak. 1.2 billion is a rounding error on a settlement for a bank in the US (not that any of that list seems to pertain to the US?). Deutsche bank is basically a criminal enterprise that continues mostly unabated despite countless confirmations of their criminal activity. If that is an unimpressive list, I would like to know what your perception of an impressive list is. Since e.g. the doubling of tax revenue for Colombia is a rather big change for a country. Deutsche Bank has been crippled to a such extent that they are a mere shadow of what they were in the mid 2000. I know it takes some time before things happen, but a shit-ton of documents takes shit-ton of time to investigate (especially in criminal cases, which requires a higher standard of evidence than media requires).
The problem imo is that that list shows how we are attempting to treat the symptoms rather than the cause of the problem. There has been no sea change in the way tax havens work, and there has been no radical changing of the laws of major countries that are feeding cash into the tax havens.
Sure a few people might be arrested here and there, but its a drop in the ocean compared to the sheer amount of money being funnelled into tax havens.
Think about the huge amount of money that comes through the UK. To say that we've recovered 252 million is a fucking joke to be honest. The Panama Papers implied that our entire political system is mixed up in dodgy tax practices and literally nothing has been done to address that.
Also, there has been no international outcry followed by action at the death of the journalists at the heart of the Panama Papers row.
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On August 13 2019 17:55 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2019 17:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 17:25 Neneu wrote:On August 13 2019 16:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 16:20 Neneu wrote:On August 13 2019 01:10 Ayaz2810 wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, it will be disappeared. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, people will not trust it. On August 13 2019 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. So what became of those Panama papers? Because in a week the 24/7 news cycle will have moved on to something else and 'the public' will stop giving a shit and poof, its gone as if nothing happened. A few examples of what became of the Panama papers: - In Panama, police raided law firm Mossack Fonseca and arrested its founders on charges of money laundering.
- In New Zealand, an inquiry called the country's trust laws "inadequate" and parliament strengthened laws to fight tax evasion and money laundering. The number of foreign trusts in New Zealand fell by three-quarters.
- In Mongolia, MongolTV reported the resignation of capital city council chairman, Sandui Tsendsuren. He joined a list of political casualties from Iceland, Pakistan, Spain and beyond.
- In the U.K, a taskforce told parliament that it had investigated dozens of people for tax evasion, arrested four others and would recover $252 million in backtaxes and fines.
- In Belgium, police raided a state-run bank whose former subsididary helped clients set up more than 1,500 offshore companies.
- In Indonesia, the government decreed that all companies must reveal their true owners. The country was one of a number that introduced new rules to combat corruption and other illicit activities.
- In Côte d'Ivoire, the ruling cabinet sacked a city mayor for alleged embezzlement after new investigations by ICIJ's partners.
- A second later leak from Mossack Fonseca in June 2018 shed light on several unknown criminal investigations.
- In Algeria, prosecutors opened a money laundering probe into a milk mogul and sought Switzerland's help to obtain bank records.
- In Colombia, the tax office doubled its revenue collection after the Panama Papers encouraged citizens to report hidden assets.
- In Germany, 170 police raided the headquarters of Deutsche Bank as part of a money laundering investigation. The probe focused on whether the bank, Germany's biggest, helped clients set up offshore accounts to transfer money from criminal activities. It was one of the investigations that has crippled Deutsche Bank to become what it is today.
- In March 2019 authorities in the United States arrested the first known taxpayer for his involvement in an alleged "decades-long criminal scheme."
- Also March 2019: In South Korea, prosecutors opened a bribery case into contracts with a Turkish arms dealer. In Vancouver, the Canada Revenue Agency executed search warrants as part of a $77 million tax evasion probe. In Sweden, banking giant Swedbank’s top management reportedly withheld information from American investigators relating to the Panama Papers.
More than $1.2 billion has been recouped in 22 countries. Investigations were sparked in more than 82 countries. So things are being done. People are being criminally charged, corrupt banks are being crippled, and high-ranking politicians have lost their job. To quote Juliana Londoño Vélez from UC Berkeley who researches public finance and labor economics: I think it is fair to infer that this shows leaks can have a massive impact on tax compliance, through deterrence and fear of being detected. That's a rather unimpressive list imo, particularly with consideration to the scope of the leak. 1.2 billion is a rounding error on a settlement for a bank in the US (not that any of that list seems to pertain to the US?). Deutsche bank is basically a criminal enterprise that continues mostly unabated despite countless confirmations of their criminal activity. If that is an unimpressive list, I would like to know what your perception of an impressive list is. Since e.g. the doubling of tax revenue for Colombia is a rather big change for a country. Deutsche Bank has been crippled to a such extent that they are a mere shadow of what they were in the mid 2000. I know it takes some time before things happen, but a shit-ton of documents takes shit-ton of time to investigate (especially in criminal cases, which requires a higher standard of evidence than media requires). superficially maybe, but they still wield over a trillion dollars in assets by themselves (dwarfing the 1.2b figure). Most of their "collapse" came long before the Panama papers as well. Also while I'd concede that's significant for Columbia, what on your list (or a larger one) did it yield in the US? Didn't it help yield Trump with his talk of draining the swamp and making Clinton part of the people you question what happened to? Thus directly helping them recover anything they might have lost and a bit more.
What are you trying to ask?
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On August 13 2019 18:05 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2019 17:55 Yurie wrote:On August 13 2019 17:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 17:25 Neneu wrote:On August 13 2019 16:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 16:20 Neneu wrote:On August 13 2019 01:10 Ayaz2810 wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, it will be disappeared. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, people will not trust it. On August 13 2019 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. So what became of those Panama papers? Because in a week the 24/7 news cycle will have moved on to something else and 'the public' will stop giving a shit and poof, its gone as if nothing happened. A few examples of what became of the Panama papers: - In Panama, police raided law firm Mossack Fonseca and arrested its founders on charges of money laundering.
- In New Zealand, an inquiry called the country's trust laws "inadequate" and parliament strengthened laws to fight tax evasion and money laundering. The number of foreign trusts in New Zealand fell by three-quarters.
- In Mongolia, MongolTV reported the resignation of capital city council chairman, Sandui Tsendsuren. He joined a list of political casualties from Iceland, Pakistan, Spain and beyond.
- In the U.K, a taskforce told parliament that it had investigated dozens of people for tax evasion, arrested four others and would recover $252 million in backtaxes and fines.
- In Belgium, police raided a state-run bank whose former subsididary helped clients set up more than 1,500 offshore companies.
- In Indonesia, the government decreed that all companies must reveal their true owners. The country was one of a number that introduced new rules to combat corruption and other illicit activities.
- In Côte d'Ivoire, the ruling cabinet sacked a city mayor for alleged embezzlement after new investigations by ICIJ's partners.
- A second later leak from Mossack Fonseca in June 2018 shed light on several unknown criminal investigations.
- In Algeria, prosecutors opened a money laundering probe into a milk mogul and sought Switzerland's help to obtain bank records.
- In Colombia, the tax office doubled its revenue collection after the Panama Papers encouraged citizens to report hidden assets.
- In Germany, 170 police raided the headquarters of Deutsche Bank as part of a money laundering investigation. The probe focused on whether the bank, Germany's biggest, helped clients set up offshore accounts to transfer money from criminal activities. It was one of the investigations that has crippled Deutsche Bank to become what it is today.
- In March 2019 authorities in the United States arrested the first known taxpayer for his involvement in an alleged "decades-long criminal scheme."
- Also March 2019: In South Korea, prosecutors opened a bribery case into contracts with a Turkish arms dealer. In Vancouver, the Canada Revenue Agency executed search warrants as part of a $77 million tax evasion probe. In Sweden, banking giant Swedbank’s top management reportedly withheld information from American investigators relating to the Panama Papers.
More than $1.2 billion has been recouped in 22 countries. Investigations were sparked in more than 82 countries. So things are being done. People are being criminally charged, corrupt banks are being crippled, and high-ranking politicians have lost their job. To quote Juliana Londoño Vélez from UC Berkeley who researches public finance and labor economics: I think it is fair to infer that this shows leaks can have a massive impact on tax compliance, through deterrence and fear of being detected. That's a rather unimpressive list imo, particularly with consideration to the scope of the leak. 1.2 billion is a rounding error on a settlement for a bank in the US (not that any of that list seems to pertain to the US?). Deutsche bank is basically a criminal enterprise that continues mostly unabated despite countless confirmations of their criminal activity. If that is an unimpressive list, I would like to know what your perception of an impressive list is. Since e.g. the doubling of tax revenue for Colombia is a rather big change for a country. Deutsche Bank has been crippled to a such extent that they are a mere shadow of what they were in the mid 2000. I know it takes some time before things happen, but a shit-ton of documents takes shit-ton of time to investigate (especially in criminal cases, which requires a higher standard of evidence than media requires). superficially maybe, but they still wield over a trillion dollars in assets by themselves (dwarfing the 1.2b figure). Most of their "collapse" came long before the Panama papers as well. Also while I'd concede that's significant for Columbia, what on your list (or a larger one) did it yield in the US? Didn't it help yield Trump with his talk of draining the swamp and making Clinton part of the people you question what happened to? Thus directly helping them recover anything they might have lost and a bit more. What are you trying to ask?
You asked what yield it had in the US. I asked if Trumps election was not part of that yield? I personally find it negative but the word doesn't have to be positive.
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On August 13 2019 18:16 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2019 18:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 17:55 Yurie wrote:On August 13 2019 17:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 17:25 Neneu wrote:On August 13 2019 16:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 16:20 Neneu wrote:On August 13 2019 01:10 Ayaz2810 wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, it will be disappeared. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, people will not trust it. On August 13 2019 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. So what became of those Panama papers? Because in a week the 24/7 news cycle will have moved on to something else and 'the public' will stop giving a shit and poof, its gone as if nothing happened. A few examples of what became of the Panama papers: - In Panama, police raided law firm Mossack Fonseca and arrested its founders on charges of money laundering.
- In New Zealand, an inquiry called the country's trust laws "inadequate" and parliament strengthened laws to fight tax evasion and money laundering. The number of foreign trusts in New Zealand fell by three-quarters.
- In Mongolia, MongolTV reported the resignation of capital city council chairman, Sandui Tsendsuren. He joined a list of political casualties from Iceland, Pakistan, Spain and beyond.
- In the U.K, a taskforce told parliament that it had investigated dozens of people for tax evasion, arrested four others and would recover $252 million in backtaxes and fines.
- In Belgium, police raided a state-run bank whose former subsididary helped clients set up more than 1,500 offshore companies.
- In Indonesia, the government decreed that all companies must reveal their true owners. The country was one of a number that introduced new rules to combat corruption and other illicit activities.
- In Côte d'Ivoire, the ruling cabinet sacked a city mayor for alleged embezzlement after new investigations by ICIJ's partners.
- A second later leak from Mossack Fonseca in June 2018 shed light on several unknown criminal investigations.
- In Algeria, prosecutors opened a money laundering probe into a milk mogul and sought Switzerland's help to obtain bank records.
- In Colombia, the tax office doubled its revenue collection after the Panama Papers encouraged citizens to report hidden assets.
- In Germany, 170 police raided the headquarters of Deutsche Bank as part of a money laundering investigation. The probe focused on whether the bank, Germany's biggest, helped clients set up offshore accounts to transfer money from criminal activities. It was one of the investigations that has crippled Deutsche Bank to become what it is today.
- In March 2019 authorities in the United States arrested the first known taxpayer for his involvement in an alleged "decades-long criminal scheme."
- Also March 2019: In South Korea, prosecutors opened a bribery case into contracts with a Turkish arms dealer. In Vancouver, the Canada Revenue Agency executed search warrants as part of a $77 million tax evasion probe. In Sweden, banking giant Swedbank’s top management reportedly withheld information from American investigators relating to the Panama Papers.
More than $1.2 billion has been recouped in 22 countries. Investigations were sparked in more than 82 countries. So things are being done. People are being criminally charged, corrupt banks are being crippled, and high-ranking politicians have lost their job. To quote Juliana Londoño Vélez from UC Berkeley who researches public finance and labor economics: I think it is fair to infer that this shows leaks can have a massive impact on tax compliance, through deterrence and fear of being detected. That's a rather unimpressive list imo, particularly with consideration to the scope of the leak. 1.2 billion is a rounding error on a settlement for a bank in the US (not that any of that list seems to pertain to the US?). Deutsche bank is basically a criminal enterprise that continues mostly unabated despite countless confirmations of their criminal activity. If that is an unimpressive list, I would like to know what your perception of an impressive list is. Since e.g. the doubling of tax revenue for Colombia is a rather big change for a country. Deutsche Bank has been crippled to a such extent that they are a mere shadow of what they were in the mid 2000. I know it takes some time before things happen, but a shit-ton of documents takes shit-ton of time to investigate (especially in criminal cases, which requires a higher standard of evidence than media requires). superficially maybe, but they still wield over a trillion dollars in assets by themselves (dwarfing the 1.2b figure). Most of their "collapse" came long before the Panama papers as well. Also while I'd concede that's significant for Columbia, what on your list (or a larger one) did it yield in the US? Didn't it help yield Trump with his talk of draining the swamp and making Clinton part of the people you question what happened to? Thus directly helping them recover anything they might have lost and a bit more. What are you trying to ask? You asked what yield it had in the US. I asked if Trumps election was not part of that yield? I personally find it negative but the word doesn't have to be positive.
No, I don't think the Panama Papers had any significant impact or relevancy to Trump's election. I suppose I couldn't conclusively exclude it from a comprehensive list of factors though?
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On August 13 2019 18:25 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2019 18:16 Yurie wrote:On August 13 2019 18:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 17:55 Yurie wrote:On August 13 2019 17:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 17:25 Neneu wrote:On August 13 2019 16:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 13 2019 16:20 Neneu wrote:On August 13 2019 01:10 Ayaz2810 wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, it will be disappeared. At this point I'm legitimately concerned that no matter what is found, people will not trust it. On August 13 2019 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:On August 13 2019 01:03 JimmiC wrote:
I don't see how this would not get investigated to all hell. Not only are "both sides" suspicious, but so is everyone outside of those sides. I have already read how and why Trump did this, the Clinton's, the Deep state, a new Cabal, the Royals. If the FBI cares at all about its credibility (and it is questionable that they do) they are going to investigate the hell out of this. And investigate as much as they can about Epstien, how he got his money and who was around him, who made the trips and so on. If there is no jail time I hope at least history remembers these fucks as the slime-balls they are. So what became of those Panama papers? Because in a week the 24/7 news cycle will have moved on to something else and 'the public' will stop giving a shit and poof, its gone as if nothing happened. A few examples of what became of the Panama papers: - In Panama, police raided law firm Mossack Fonseca and arrested its founders on charges of money laundering.
- In New Zealand, an inquiry called the country's trust laws "inadequate" and parliament strengthened laws to fight tax evasion and money laundering. The number of foreign trusts in New Zealand fell by three-quarters.
- In Mongolia, MongolTV reported the resignation of capital city council chairman, Sandui Tsendsuren. He joined a list of political casualties from Iceland, Pakistan, Spain and beyond.
- In the U.K, a taskforce told parliament that it had investigated dozens of people for tax evasion, arrested four others and would recover $252 million in backtaxes and fines.
- In Belgium, police raided a state-run bank whose former subsididary helped clients set up more than 1,500 offshore companies.
- In Indonesia, the government decreed that all companies must reveal their true owners. The country was one of a number that introduced new rules to combat corruption and other illicit activities.
- In Côte d'Ivoire, the ruling cabinet sacked a city mayor for alleged embezzlement after new investigations by ICIJ's partners.
- A second later leak from Mossack Fonseca in June 2018 shed light on several unknown criminal investigations.
- In Algeria, prosecutors opened a money laundering probe into a milk mogul and sought Switzerland's help to obtain bank records.
- In Colombia, the tax office doubled its revenue collection after the Panama Papers encouraged citizens to report hidden assets.
- In Germany, 170 police raided the headquarters of Deutsche Bank as part of a money laundering investigation. The probe focused on whether the bank, Germany's biggest, helped clients set up offshore accounts to transfer money from criminal activities. It was one of the investigations that has crippled Deutsche Bank to become what it is today.
- In March 2019 authorities in the United States arrested the first known taxpayer for his involvement in an alleged "decades-long criminal scheme."
- Also March 2019: In South Korea, prosecutors opened a bribery case into contracts with a Turkish arms dealer. In Vancouver, the Canada Revenue Agency executed search warrants as part of a $77 million tax evasion probe. In Sweden, banking giant Swedbank’s top management reportedly withheld information from American investigators relating to the Panama Papers.
More than $1.2 billion has been recouped in 22 countries. Investigations were sparked in more than 82 countries. So things are being done. People are being criminally charged, corrupt banks are being crippled, and high-ranking politicians have lost their job. To quote Juliana Londoño Vélez from UC Berkeley who researches public finance and labor economics: I think it is fair to infer that this shows leaks can have a massive impact on tax compliance, through deterrence and fear of being detected. That's a rather unimpressive list imo, particularly with consideration to the scope of the leak. 1.2 billion is a rounding error on a settlement for a bank in the US (not that any of that list seems to pertain to the US?). Deutsche bank is basically a criminal enterprise that continues mostly unabated despite countless confirmations of their criminal activity. If that is an unimpressive list, I would like to know what your perception of an impressive list is. Since e.g. the doubling of tax revenue for Colombia is a rather big change for a country. Deutsche Bank has been crippled to a such extent that they are a mere shadow of what they were in the mid 2000. I know it takes some time before things happen, but a shit-ton of documents takes shit-ton of time to investigate (especially in criminal cases, which requires a higher standard of evidence than media requires). superficially maybe, but they still wield over a trillion dollars in assets by themselves (dwarfing the 1.2b figure). Most of their "collapse" came long before the Panama papers as well. Also while I'd concede that's significant for Columbia, what on your list (or a larger one) did it yield in the US? Didn't it help yield Trump with his talk of draining the swamp and making Clinton part of the people you question what happened to? Thus directly helping them recover anything they might have lost and a bit more. What are you trying to ask? You asked what yield it had in the US. I asked if Trumps election was not part of that yield? I personally find it negative but the word doesn't have to be positive. No, I don't think the Panama Papers had any significant impact or relevancy to Trump's election. I suppose I couldn't conclusively exclude it from a comprehensive list of factors though?
To double down on this point, I don't think the man has ever mentioned it.
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On August 13 2019 06:21 JimmiC wrote:
Ghislaine Maxwell is still alive at this point. You would think she would know enough Epstein's activities to keep the investigation flowing. I would offer her what ever she wants, immunity, protection, new life, whatever.
Don't be so sure she's still alive. Although she has deep intel ties so who knows?
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(sans journalistic ethics) CBS reports "Shrieking heard" from Epstein's cell the morning of his death. Also some context on the Maxwell woman relationship to this.
On the morning of Jeffrey Epstein's death there was shouting and shrieking from his jail cell, a source familiar with the situation told CBS News. Corrections officers attempted to revive him while saying "breathe, Epstein, breathe."
With Epstein gone, potential co-conspirators involved in his alleged sex-trafficking network are shifting into focus. British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell is one of four women accused of recruiting underage girls for sex. She's denied those claims in the past and has not been charged with a crime. Maxwell is said to be Epstein's ex-girlfriend turned business associate. Her current location is unknown.
"She was more of a partner in his obsession, really," said Miami Herald reporter Julie Brown, who spent more than two years looking into Epstein's controversial 2008 plea deal. "And there are allegations that she was involved in having sex with some of these girls as well."
www.cbsnews.com
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On August 14 2019 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:(sans journalistic ethics) CBS reports "Shrieking heard" from Epstein's cell the morning of his death. Also some context on the Maxwell woman relationship to this. Show nested quote +On the morning of Jeffrey Epstein's death there was shouting and shrieking from his jail cell, a source familiar with the situation told CBS News. Corrections officers attempted to revive him while saying "breathe, Epstein, breathe."
With Epstein gone, potential co-conspirators involved in his alleged sex-trafficking network are shifting into focus. British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell is one of four women accused of recruiting underage girls for sex. She's denied those claims in the past and has not been charged with a crime. Maxwell is said to be Epstein's ex-girlfriend turned business associate. Her current location is unknown.
"She was more of a partner in his obsession, really," said Miami Herald reporter Julie Brown, who spent more than two years looking into Epstein's controversial 2008 plea deal. "And there are allegations that she was involved in having sex with some of these girls as well." www.cbsnews.com
Meanwhile people who pat themselves on the back for being skeptical of anything other than suicide are imagining it is very painful to kill yourself and that of course you'd scream
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On August 14 2019 00:52 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2019 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:(sans journalistic ethics) CBS reports "Shrieking heard" from Epstein's cell the morning of his death. Also some context on the Maxwell woman relationship to this. On the morning of Jeffrey Epstein's death there was shouting and shrieking from his jail cell, a source familiar with the situation told CBS News. Corrections officers attempted to revive him while saying "breathe, Epstein, breathe."
With Epstein gone, potential co-conspirators involved in his alleged sex-trafficking network are shifting into focus. British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell is one of four women accused of recruiting underage girls for sex. She's denied those claims in the past and has not been charged with a crime. Maxwell is said to be Epstein's ex-girlfriend turned business associate. Her current location is unknown.
"She was more of a partner in his obsession, really," said Miami Herald reporter Julie Brown, who spent more than two years looking into Epstein's controversial 2008 plea deal. "And there are allegations that she was involved in having sex with some of these girls as well." www.cbsnews.com Meanwhile people who pat themselves on the back for being skeptical of anything other than suicide are imagining it is very painful to kill yourself and that of course you'd scream
Also depends on how he allegedly killed himself. If he hung himself, then screaming seems unlikely. If, however, he found some ragged sharp object and ripped his wrists open, I can imagine a fair amount of screaming...
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On August 14 2019 01:02 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2019 00:52 Mohdoo wrote:On August 14 2019 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:(sans journalistic ethics) CBS reports "Shrieking heard" from Epstein's cell the morning of his death. Also some context on the Maxwell woman relationship to this. On the morning of Jeffrey Epstein's death there was shouting and shrieking from his jail cell, a source familiar with the situation told CBS News. Corrections officers attempted to revive him while saying "breathe, Epstein, breathe."
With Epstein gone, potential co-conspirators involved in his alleged sex-trafficking network are shifting into focus. British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell is one of four women accused of recruiting underage girls for sex. She's denied those claims in the past and has not been charged with a crime. Maxwell is said to be Epstein's ex-girlfriend turned business associate. Her current location is unknown.
"She was more of a partner in his obsession, really," said Miami Herald reporter Julie Brown, who spent more than two years looking into Epstein's controversial 2008 plea deal. "And there are allegations that she was involved in having sex with some of these girls as well." www.cbsnews.com Meanwhile people who pat themselves on the back for being skeptical of anything other than suicide are imagining it is very painful to kill yourself and that of course you'd scream Also depends on how he allegedly killed himself. If he hung himself, then screaming seems unlikely. If, however, he found some ragged sharp object and ripped his wrists open, I can imagine a fair amount of screaming...
He supposedly hung himself with a bed sheet from a bunk that was shorter than he was.*
While the suicide is extremely questionable I just want to make clear that even if it was suicide that doesn't remove the potential of foul play. Also that the potential doesn't necessitate that it is the case, simply that Epstein committing suicide doesn't absolve the state of culpability legally or in the court of public opinion.
*I don't doubt he was into asphyxiation so that's probably less absurd than it might sound.
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On August 14 2019 01:31 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2019 01:02 Acrofales wrote:On August 14 2019 00:52 Mohdoo wrote:On August 14 2019 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:(sans journalistic ethics) CBS reports "Shrieking heard" from Epstein's cell the morning of his death. Also some context on the Maxwell woman relationship to this. On the morning of Jeffrey Epstein's death there was shouting and shrieking from his jail cell, a source familiar with the situation told CBS News. Corrections officers attempted to revive him while saying "breathe, Epstein, breathe."
With Epstein gone, potential co-conspirators involved in his alleged sex-trafficking network are shifting into focus. British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell is one of four women accused of recruiting underage girls for sex. She's denied those claims in the past and has not been charged with a crime. Maxwell is said to be Epstein's ex-girlfriend turned business associate. Her current location is unknown.
"She was more of a partner in his obsession, really," said Miami Herald reporter Julie Brown, who spent more than two years looking into Epstein's controversial 2008 plea deal. "And there are allegations that she was involved in having sex with some of these girls as well." www.cbsnews.com Meanwhile people who pat themselves on the back for being skeptical of anything other than suicide are imagining it is very painful to kill yourself and that of course you'd scream Also depends on how he allegedly killed himself. If he hung himself, then screaming seems unlikely. If, however, he found some ragged sharp object and ripped his wrists open, I can imagine a fair amount of screaming... He supposedly hung himself with a bed sheet from a bunk that was shorter than he was.* While the suicide is extremely questionable I just want to make clear that even if it was suicide that doesn't remove the potential of foul play. Also that the potential doesn't necessitate that it is the case, simply that Epstein committing suicide doesn't absolve the state of culpability legally or in the court of public opinion. *I don't doubt he was into asphyxiation so that's probably less absurd than it might sound.
While I'm not planning on wading into whether it was suicide or not, I will add that hanging yourself from an object that is smaller than yourself is not a problem. People have been hanging themselves from doorknobs. It's not like you'll be out of breath and have to fight the urge to breathe. Bloodflow is cut from your brain and you're unconscious in seconds.
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Gives new meaning to "fuck off and die".
The screaming thing is very interesting.
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On August 14 2019 03:00 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Gives new meaning to "fuck off and die".
The screaming thing is very interesting.
The funny thing is that so many incredibly high profile people are involved any of them could have done it. Prince Charles likely could pull all his cards and make it happen. Same with Bill Clinton. Same with a great number of billionaires.
Imagine this: "I am willing to spend $500,000,000 to have this person killed". What kind of resources could that buy? You could pay the entire jail a million dollars each.
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Canada11524 Posts
Yeah, except child rapist is such a scumbag position- most people couldn't be bought off for any love of money I would guess.
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United States44012 Posts
On August 14 2019 03:26 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2019 03:00 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Gives new meaning to "fuck off and die".
The screaming thing is very interesting. The funny thing is that so many incredibly high profile people are involved any of them could have done it. Prince Charles likely could pull all his cards and make it happen. Same with Bill Clinton. Same with a great number of billionaires. Imagine this: "I am willing to spend $500,000,000 to have this person killed". What kind of resources could that buy? You could pay the entire jail a million dollars each.
Prince Charles isn’t involved at all. It’s pretty well established that his type is Camilla and plants.
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On August 14 2019 04:12 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2019 03:26 Mohdoo wrote:On August 14 2019 03:00 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Gives new meaning to "fuck off and die".
The screaming thing is very interesting. The funny thing is that so many incredibly high profile people are involved any of them could have done it. Prince Charles likely could pull all his cards and make it happen. Same with Bill Clinton. Same with a great number of billionaires. Imagine this: "I am willing to spend $500,000,000 to have this person killed". What kind of resources could that buy? You could pay the entire jail a million dollars each. Prince Charles isn’t involved at all. It’s pretty well established that his type is Camilla and plants.
Oops, prince *Andrew, right?
Edit: TOASTER STRUDEL
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Canada11524 Posts
I would have turned a blind eye for $500k 100% guaranteed.
I would not. Too quick and easy, and I would want to see anyone else complicit in his perversity brought low. I really don't think you could set a price on that for me.
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EPT
