EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 823
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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10842 Posts
Just read his older posts on the subject... Media that is critical of turkye (so basically all, except turkish, media)? BAD and people that read it are indoctrinated and stupid. The only viable sources are naturally Turkish, who cares that newspapers/tv-stations got closed and Journalist jailed a gogo if they weren't on the Erdogan fanbus. But ist all ok because Gulen is the devil and erdogan is a saint that takes power for the greater good. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
Probably not very significant. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On April 29 2017 03:18 bardtown wrote: + Show Spoiler + https://twitter.com/ReutersUK/status/858022215773818887 Probably not very significant. It creates a bad precedent. But he got only 1.7 millions of votes and his electorate probably had the highest report on Le Pen already. This will also kill his movement. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Poopi
France12907 Posts
On April 29 2017 03:26 LegalLord wrote: Hey, he was within two percentage points of the candidate of one of the two major national parties. He can't be that bad. Well if he effectively destroys his party with his stance, he is that bad :o. From what I understand he is being hypocritical relatively to former opinions of his (2014 tweets). | ||
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
but you could still campaign under the foreign ministry's approval I think someone in this thread needs better reading skills. On April 28 2017 18:29 Velr wrote: Nah, his actual position is just the typical migrant kid having a delusional picture of his "Homeland". He just makes Turkey look good to himself by an inherent bias. Just read his older posts on the subject... Media that is critical of turkye (so basically all, except turkish, media)? BAD and people that read it are indoctrinated and stupid. The only viable sources are naturally Turkish, who cares that newspapers/tv-stations got closed and Journalist jailed a gogo if they weren't on the Erdogan fanbus. But ist all ok because Gulen is the devil and erdogan is a saint that takes power for the greater good. Ha-ha. Really? Just stop, full stop one second, and try to realize the fact THAT you guys (the people who keep talking about Turkish politics as if they know shit about it) are claiming you know everything better than a person WHO lived in Turkey, who probably knows Turkish history 10 times better than you, who has some major abilities what you lack, like speaking and understanding Turkish (what enables him to read more - interact more with the Turkish) and experienced most of the things you chit-chat everyday with his own eyes, while your only sources are the global-media even your leaders and your people curse everyday. Your arrogance irritates me badly. Just see yourselves in the mirror, you guys are non-stop talking the same topics about Turkey over and over again. It's not only Turkey, you guys know everything in the Middle East thousand times better than the middle easterners right? Please find me some discussions in this thread where a Swiss claiming he has a clearer idea than an Italian about his homeland. You won't find it. You can only find some critics, some debates over common problems but not anything this much arrogant. The Imperial thinking, the arrogant mindset of the winners, and their "we know better!" rooted deep in your logic that you don't even realize how arrogant you look when you talk about ME. Don't take it personally, it's not just you. But since my membership began all I see here is, even the liberal members who try to counter heavy racism and islamophobia (some of you suffer very badly), do somehow have ideas they strongly believe would be good for Middle East or TR, but nothing else would work. 5 years ago I bet none of you had an idea about who the hell is Gulen, now you constantly hitting Turkey for his newspaper that you probably never read. If global media was portraying Erdogan like it did 10 years ago, you all would be happy to hear that one islamist newspaper is shut down in TR. I can't ask you to stop talking about Turkey, bash it all the way you want, like as if we don't realize that the only things you don't criticize are the things your global media tells you not to, or the things they don't show you at all. You know better about Russia, better about Turkey, better about Iraq, Syria, the fate of Kurds, Arabs, the fate of Israel, everywhere is touched but your lovely continent. It's not a problem as long as you do it in a gaming forum, but sadly, this arrogance continues on international level and IT KEEPS FAILING. We suffer Islamist terrorism because some hundreds years ago the very similar people to you in terms of their fancy "we know better!" trauma draw some borders on world map and hoped for the best. Wilson died, GB is long gone, but you guys are still trying to manage the lands that continent away from you, while you don't know their culture or history, it is bound to lose. It failed, and will fail again. Turkey is the only country that allied forces could not design with their "superior brains" after WW1 and compare it to Syria, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, any other country Allied forces had heavy influence on. We were lucky to win our independence war, or you already had your map design for TR too, what would cause millions of Turkish refugees on Europe's borders by now due to Kurdish-ISIS invasion, if the conditions of Sevr treaty happened. We're gonna keep going on our ways and will probably do better like we did before. We'll lock every Gulenist, terminate the PKK threat within Turkey, and hopefully fullfill your democratic Turkey dreams one day or another. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.turkishforum.com.tr/en/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Partitioning-of-anatolia-map.jpg) Until that time, I will keep asking myself, dear god, what did we do to deserve this much globalism where a Swiss knows about Turkish Islamist cleric.  Maybe we should focus on a model like this for Europe instead of divided ME model of yours, ha? | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10842 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5752 Posts
On April 29 2017 13:53 OtherWorld wrote: That map is actually brilliant lol That could actually work. :O | ||
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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Poopi
France12907 Posts
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
Turkey has blocked all access inside the country to the online encyclopaedia Wikipedia, one of the world's most popular websites. It was not initially clear why the ban had been imposed. The Turkey Blocks group said the site was inaccessible from 08:00 (05:00 GMT) by order of the Turkish authorities. People in the capital Istanbul were unable to access any Wikipedia pages without using a Virtual Private Network (VPN). BBC primary source? Any thoughts on wikipedia, lastpuritan? | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
Like the Dutch opinion on the conviction of Wilders, the Turks themselves are clearly divided on the issues in Turkey. You can blame it all on propaganda and so forth, but everyone always seems to do that. We blame the rise of hate towards Islam on the media reporting on it with a bias, for example. Fake news this, propaganda that, bias so-and-so. There's not a single opinion left that's not the result of propaganda anymore, especially if you happen to be opposed to those opinions. Perhaps certain actions are necessary in order to keep the population at an appropriate level of happiness to prevent damage being done to the stability of the country. I don't think it's for us to say. Like the way we potentially underestimated the justifications for the perceived cruelness of Saddam towards his own people - he clearly had certain factions he had to deal with in order to keep Iraq a stable country. Remove the person willing to do that, and you find yourself in a much bigger unstable mess. Some things are certainly hard to find justification for, like blocking YouTube or Wikipedia. Or, to take a much more extreme example, the gassing of civilians such as what Assad or Assad-supporting factions seem to do. Still, we can try to impose our values on people living in other countries, but that rarely works. Just like people in Africa or South East Asia may have a different idea of what it means to be 'hungry', perhaps other countries have different expectations of democracy.+ Show Spoiler + We say we're 'hungry' when its about time for lunch, but we still have plenty of fat to burn to sustain ourselves, while other people may use the word hungry to mean being at the brink of starvation. Or, like, I might call the two political parties that run the US a full-blown plutocracy rather than a democracy according to my own standards, while some people might disagree ("you can still vote! people wanted Hillary! blah blah blah"). I don't know. I don't like Erdogans rhetoric, and I think he's not making Turkey a better place to live in on the whole. He seems to oppress anyone who is opposed to him. From Gulenists to Kurds. I don't think people who don't have to live there should be voting on issues pertaining to Turkey. That's just as retarded as organizations from the US and Israel funding Wilders to support him. Or foreign NGOs funding political parties in Ukraine. It's dumb, why should people who don't have to live in a country be able to influence its politics in such a way? You guys want Zeelandian terrorism in France? Cause that's what you're gonna get with that map, LOL (joke). On April 29 2017 19:16 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: The only map that works and fine for anyone must be without actual borders Sort of like this: http://i.imgur.com/rMlcYwD.png Or do you think borders are OK after all? (also joke) | ||
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
Sort of like this: http://i.imgur.com/rMlcYwD.png Or do you think borders are OK after all? (also joke) Sorf of like this across the planet. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2009/06/a_united_europe_from_space/10238986-2-eng-GB/A_united_Europe_from_space.jpg) Borders are made to separate people, and globally speaking separating is a bad approach. | ||
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Elizar
Germany431 Posts
On April 29 2017 12:42 lastpuritan wrote: [...] The Imperial thinking, the arrogant mindset of the winners, and their "we know better!" rooted deep in your logic that you don't even realize how arrogant you look when you talk about ME. Don't take it personally, it's not just you. But since my membership began all I see here is, even the liberal members who try to counter heavy racism and islamophobia (some of you suffer very badly), do somehow have ideas they strongly believe would be good for Middle East or TR, but nothing else would work. [...] OK now I'm a racist or islamophobe? I work with muslims every day, and hell no, I treat them the same way I treat Germans, Russians, etc. Just because I don't like Erdogan and his followers that doesn't make me an islamohobe. Just like me critisizing the Israelian government doesn' make me an antisemit. That's one thing people need to understand seeing themselves permanently as the victim, just because it makes everything easier. Funny that you think I have the arrogant imperialistic mindest of the winners. I'm from Germany, maybe I must explain it to you: We lost both world wars. We are not winners. So what the heck are you talking about? But on the other side, in Germany we have a lot history lessons regarding Hitler, his rhetorics, his path and methods to claim power. That's why many of us are sensible for wannabe dictators. And many things we see in Turkey rubs us the wrong way. We experienced it already and we don't want it to be repeated. Not in Germany, not in any other country, especially not in Turkey, because many people in Germany have strong bonds to that beautiful country. You don't see the danger, because you don't want to see it. It would not fit your narrative anyway. And that' exactly the type of follower that dictators are happy to have. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9271 Posts
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warding
Portugal2394 Posts
A_flayer the discussion shouldn't be about whether individual X or Z is promoting violence and therefore should be arrested. It's about the political and legal institutions of the country and what it means to have an executive branch with the power to do all those things arbitrarily. It's about an almost developed country turning rule of law into the rule of Erdogan. Basic knowledge of political science and history makes it obvious that liberal democracies are what create happy, prosperous societies. There's nothing unique to Turkey that makes that not apply. Every dictator everywhere makes the exact same arguments that lastpuritan makes. | ||
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