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On July 29 2014 16:55 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 16:53 BlueSpace wrote:On July 29 2014 16:45 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 16:35 BlueSpace wrote:On July 29 2014 16:05 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 11:04 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 10:54 Jormundr wrote:On July 29 2014 10:27 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 10:19 DinoMight wrote:
Then you follow it up by saying that it's okay for Jews to do all these things because "The Hollocaust." But when Arabs do literally the same exact things (hide weapons in unethical places, use terrorist tactics) you cry OUTRAGE.
. I have to applaud them, given the huge circlejerk here apparently it's working great. On July 21 2014 17:53 zeo wrote:
Actually fuck it, I won't post in that thread again. Have fun with your circlejerk, actual discussion died in the General forum a long time ago. If you're not worried about your present company, it must be a doubly terrifying day to be a russian jew. The entire world is out to get them, you know? Like zeo, you have come into this thread with the preconceived notion that your side is completely innocent and should be free from criticism because hey, other people have done worse things. Not only did I never say that Israel is free from criticism(I have in this thread criticized Israel's settlement policy in the West-bank) , neither am I a tinfoil hat wearing Russian conspiracy theorist. And given how often history has proven indeed that the "world was out to get them" I'll just say that your comment comes off as especially cynical. But Israel is not "the jews" and german are not "the world". I really don't want to get too involved in this discussion because both sides are at fault here. But I would like to point out, that the Germans were by far not the only ones that wanted "to get" the Jews. Jews have been persecuted for as long as written history exists. In the middle ages they were blamed for killing Jesus. People thought that they poison wells and steal children. This believe was held all across Europe. In many places they were prevented from holding land and had to life in small enclaves. Jewish persecution does not start with Nazi Germany. Furthermore many of the countries Germany invaded actively helped to cleanse their Jewish population. The reason why it was so easy for Hitler to persecute the Jews, was that he could tap into literally hundred of years of prejudices against the Jewish communities. Israel should be criticized for what they are doing, but people shouldn't forget that Zionism didn't just fall from the blue sky. It does not change the fact that the german did the holocaust or you disagree ? Zionism was founded before the Holocaust. And he didn't talk specifically about the Holocaust but the general persecution of the Jews. Whether or not I disagree depends entirely on what you mean by "did". Germans initiated and planned the Holocaust. Execution wise there are a lot of details. This is irrelevant though. I only meant to say, that hatred for Jews is not a "pure" German phenomena. It doesn't change the fact that the holocaust was made by german. That's it, when you make referrence to the holocaust, to the fact that jew fled europe, you cannot directly link it to zionism. Zionism was not entirely a reaction to the persecution, it is a tendency of all community : what gave it its strength is the holocaust. There are hatred for every community in every community, that's also inbuilt in human society. What made antisemitism special in 1930 and before was that jew lived in europe, while arabs and black people were colonised. It doesn't mean that they suffered less.
There is a direct link between anti-judaism and anti-Semitism. The Jews have been systematically persecuted in Europe for hundreds of years. These are historic facts. Out of this experience Zionism was formed in combination with the idea of a nation state for Jews to be safe. And yes all of that is linked. Don't really know what your point is.
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On July 29 2014 17:12 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 16:55 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 16:53 BlueSpace wrote:On July 29 2014 16:45 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 16:35 BlueSpace wrote:On July 29 2014 16:05 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 11:04 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 10:54 Jormundr wrote:On July 29 2014 10:27 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 10:19 DinoMight wrote:
Then you follow it up by saying that it's okay for Jews to do all these things because "The Hollocaust." But when Arabs do literally the same exact things (hide weapons in unethical places, use terrorist tactics) you cry OUTRAGE.
. I have to applaud them, given the huge circlejerk here apparently it's working great. On July 21 2014 17:53 zeo wrote:
Actually fuck it, I won't post in that thread again. Have fun with your circlejerk, actual discussion died in the General forum a long time ago. If you're not worried about your present company, it must be a doubly terrifying day to be a russian jew. The entire world is out to get them, you know? Like zeo, you have come into this thread with the preconceived notion that your side is completely innocent and should be free from criticism because hey, other people have done worse things. Not only did I never say that Israel is free from criticism(I have in this thread criticized Israel's settlement policy in the West-bank) , neither am I a tinfoil hat wearing Russian conspiracy theorist. And given how often history has proven indeed that the "world was out to get them" I'll just say that your comment comes off as especially cynical. But Israel is not "the jews" and german are not "the world". I really don't want to get too involved in this discussion because both sides are at fault here. But I would like to point out, that the Germans were by far not the only ones that wanted "to get" the Jews. Jews have been persecuted for as long as written history exists. In the middle ages they were blamed for killing Jesus. People thought that they poison wells and steal children. This believe was held all across Europe. In many places they were prevented from holding land and had to life in small enclaves. Jewish persecution does not start with Nazi Germany. Furthermore many of the countries Germany invaded actively helped to cleanse their Jewish population. The reason why it was so easy for Hitler to persecute the Jews, was that he could tap into literally hundred of years of prejudices against the Jewish communities. Israel should be criticized for what they are doing, but people shouldn't forget that Zionism didn't just fall from the blue sky. It does not change the fact that the german did the holocaust or you disagree ? Zionism was founded before the Holocaust. And he didn't talk specifically about the Holocaust but the general persecution of the Jews. Whether or not I disagree depends entirely on what you mean by "did". Germans initiated and planned the Holocaust. Execution wise there are a lot of details. This is irrelevant though. I only meant to say, that hatred for Jews is not a "pure" German phenomena. It doesn't change the fact that the holocaust was made by german. That's it, when you make referrence to the holocaust, to the fact that jew fled europe, you cannot directly link it to zionism. Zionism was not entirely a reaction to the persecution, it is a tendency of all community : what gave it its strength is the holocaust. There are hatred for every community in every community, that's also inbuilt in human society. What made antisemitism special in 1930 and before was that jew lived in europe, while arabs and black people were colonised. It doesn't mean that they suffered less. There is a direct link between anti-judaism and anti-Semitism. The Jews have been systematically persecuted in Europe for hundreds of years. These are historic facts. Out of this experience Zionism was formed in combination with the idea of a nation state for Jews to be safe. And yes all of that is linked. Don't really know what your point is.
You mean that there are no facts that the black and arabs were persecuted ?
And you think nationalism in France or in Britain came from persecution ?
It's not completly random that the racism in Germany, the only surperpower with no colony, focused on jew. What I'm merely saying is that zionism is the equivalent of a tendancy that exist in all society, and that there are no specificity of the jew in this regard, nor in human suffering prior to 1930, putting aside the fact that jews were in the main land while other "race" or "confession" were colonised.
So if you want to state that, prior to 1930, the "world" wanted to "get the jews", then it's true, but you must also agree that the world wanted to "get the indians, get the arabs, get the black", etc.
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On July 29 2014 14:20 BigFan wrote:^ I just heard about that, fuck... I still don't understand how any sane person can justify these kind of attacks. Show nested quote +Children were playing on a swing when the strike hit the park in the Shati refugee camp on the edge of Gaza City, said Ayman Sahabani, head of the emergency room at nearby Shifa Hospital. Wonder what kind of excuse there'll be for this.
Its simple to reason. Not justify. It is war pure and simple. War is not nice or rule bound. People die period during a war. Now why would they attack a hospital? To prevent the care of the enemy. It is a rather effective and brutal method to make sure that when that bullet goes into them, they have less of a chance of coming back. So lets think. What will they do next in this war? My guess is any type of supplying. So food, weapons, medical stuff, and even people. My guess is bridges and roads.
Now lets take a look at why you do not fuck with Israel.
You have people who were born into war. The very necessity of winning war was the requirement that they live. So, you have these kids who are very good at it since they grew up in it. Israel has been at war for about 60 years? So, you have a few generations of warrior veterans/young kids who grew up in it. They know how to win a war despite any unethical strategies. Anybody who takes a moral stand in a war is rather unintelligent. So, whoever wins this war gets what they want. The loser gets fucked as is common practice in war. It is the cold harsh reality of war. War is something horrible and dirty. Both sides will do terrible things to the other side. Such is the nature of war.
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On July 29 2014 17:14 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 17:12 BlueSpace wrote:On July 29 2014 16:55 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 16:53 BlueSpace wrote:On July 29 2014 16:45 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 16:35 BlueSpace wrote:On July 29 2014 16:05 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 11:04 Nyxisto wrote:On July 29 2014 10:54 Jormundr wrote:On July 29 2014 10:27 Nyxisto wrote:
[quote]
I have to applaud them, given the huge circlejerk here apparently it's working great.
On July 21 2014 17:53 zeo wrote:
Actually fuck it, I won't post in that thread again. Have fun with your circlejerk, actual discussion died in the General forum a long time ago. If you're not worried about your present company, it must be a doubly terrifying day to be a russian jew. The entire world is out to get them, you know? Like zeo, you have come into this thread with the preconceived notion that your side is completely innocent and should be free from criticism because hey, other people have done worse things. Not only did I never say that Israel is free from criticism(I have in this thread criticized Israel's settlement policy in the West-bank) , neither am I a tinfoil hat wearing Russian conspiracy theorist. And given how often history has proven indeed that the "world was out to get them" I'll just say that your comment comes off as especially cynical. But Israel is not "the jews" and german are not "the world". I really don't want to get too involved in this discussion because both sides are at fault here. But I would like to point out, that the Germans were by far not the only ones that wanted "to get" the Jews. Jews have been persecuted for as long as written history exists. In the middle ages they were blamed for killing Jesus. People thought that they poison wells and steal children. This believe was held all across Europe. In many places they were prevented from holding land and had to life in small enclaves. Jewish persecution does not start with Nazi Germany. Furthermore many of the countries Germany invaded actively helped to cleanse their Jewish population. The reason why it was so easy for Hitler to persecute the Jews, was that he could tap into literally hundred of years of prejudices against the Jewish communities. Israel should be criticized for what they are doing, but people shouldn't forget that Zionism didn't just fall from the blue sky. It does not change the fact that the german did the holocaust or you disagree ? Zionism was founded before the Holocaust. And he didn't talk specifically about the Holocaust but the general persecution of the Jews. Whether or not I disagree depends entirely on what you mean by "did". Germans initiated and planned the Holocaust. Execution wise there are a lot of details. This is irrelevant though. I only meant to say, that hatred for Jews is not a "pure" German phenomena. It doesn't change the fact that the holocaust was made by german. That's it, when you make referrence to the holocaust, to the fact that jew fled europe, you cannot directly link it to zionism. Zionism was not entirely a reaction to the persecution, it is a tendency of all community : what gave it its strength is the holocaust. There are hatred for every community in every community, that's also inbuilt in human society. What made antisemitism special in 1930 and before was that jew lived in europe, while arabs and black people were colonised. It doesn't mean that they suffered less. There is a direct link between anti-judaism and anti-Semitism. The Jews have been systematically persecuted in Europe for hundreds of years. These are historic facts. Out of this experience Zionism was formed in combination with the idea of a nation state for Jews to be safe. And yes all of that is linked. Don't really know what your point is. You mean that there are no facts that the black and arabs were persecuted ? And you think nationalism in France or in Britain came from persecution ? It's not completly random that the racism in Germany, the only surperpower with no colony, focused on jew. What I'm merely saying is that zionism is the equivalent of a tendancy that exist in all society, and that there are no specificity of the jew in this regard, nor in human suffering prior to 1930, putting aside the fact that jews were in the main land while other "race" or "confession" were colonised. So if you want to state that, prior to 1930, the "world" wanted to "get the jews", then it's true, but you must also agree that the world wanted to "get the indians, get the arabs, get the black", etc.
The Jews are not the only ones that suffered in human history, correct. But that's for me rather apparent. And the Jews aren't they only ones that suffered massively in the Holocaust. Again rather apparent. The important point though is that before Israel was stated, there was no country for Jews. They had nowhere to go. In any case. This is going off-topic. Please write me a PM if you want to continue I made my point.
Edit: Nationalism by the way was founded as a way to band together large groups of people and unite them behind common symbols to become stronger than your neighbors. So yes, all nationalism is based on the notion, that the others are out to get us and we need to be stronger. That's also one of the reasons why the History of the 19th/20th century is written in so much blood. I'm very critical of nationalism, but it is really effective, so if you didn't do it, you got screwed.
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This is not a war.
This is an army rolling over a City.
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How I read that : 7 bullshit things for you not to be pro palestinians.
The 1 made me laugh I must add :
1. Why is everything so much worse when there are Jews involved?
Who care about the jews ? It's not about jews, it's about Israel.
And I want to remind everyone for the 50th time that there have been no proof on Hamas using human shield, while Israel has been condemn for it.
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On July 29 2014 17:58 WhiteDog wrote:How I read that : 7 bullshit things for you not to be pro palestinians. The 1 made me laugh I must add : 1. Why is everything so much worse when there are Jews involved? Who care about the jews ? It's not about jews, it's about Israel. And I want to remind everyone for the 50th time that there have been no proof on Hamas using human shield, while Israel has been condemn for it.
You are free to read it as you want, Whitedog.
Still, it is true that Assad killed 180,000 muslims and the fuss about it was 1/100 compared to now. What would have happened if Israel killed 180,000 muslims?
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And I want to remind everyone for the 50th time that there have been no proof on Hamas using human shield, while Israel has been condemn for it.
As grumpy with the conflict and seriously disillusioned with Israel's behaviour as I am, I think this is pretty weak sauce. Sure, Hamas probably don't tie civilians to their weapons (neither do israel for that matter) but they do conduct combat operations from crowded civilian areas. In my mind, this is pretty awful conduct, though israel actually bombing them regardless is in my mind somewhat worse.
For me the difficulty is increasingly in figuring out what the fuck hamas actually is. Like, is it some well organised, centralised body, or is it a bunch of different cells and loyalty tribes all doing the arabic tribal thing and vying for political power. Is the political wing of Hamas in any kind of direct control over the nutters throwing rockets from here to saturday? I feel like Israel's constant 'Hamas this, Hamas that' diatribe makes little sense if half of the 'Hamas' fighters are pretty much lone wolves or micro cells digging up what equipment they can and making mischief.
Not to say that the political wing aren't a bunch of anti-semitic scumbags and the fanatics on the ground aren't even worse, but I feel like the 'group punishment' thing is far too reasonable an accusation to level for my comfort right now.
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On July 29 2014 17:30 HappyCamper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 14:20 BigFan wrote:^ I just heard about that, fuck... I still don't understand how any sane person can justify these kind of attacks. Children were playing on a swing when the strike hit the park in the Shati refugee camp on the edge of Gaza City, said Ayman Sahabani, head of the emergency room at nearby Shifa Hospital. Wonder what kind of excuse there'll be for this. Its simple to reason. Not justify. It is war pure and simple. War is not nice or rule bound. People die period during a war. Now why would they attack a hospital? To prevent the care of the enemy. It is a rather effective and brutal method to make sure that when that bullet goes into them, they have less of a chance of coming back. So lets think. What will they do next in this war? My guess is any type of supplying. So food, weapons, medical stuff, and even people. My guess is bridges and roads. Now lets take a look at why you do not fuck with Israel. You have people who were born into war. The very necessity of winning war was the requirement that they live. So, you have these kids who are very good at it since they grew up in it. Israel has been at war for about 60 years? So, you have a few generations of warrior veterans/young kids who grew up in it. They know how to win a war despite any unethical strategies. Anybody who takes a moral stand in a war is rather unintelligent. So, whoever wins this war gets what they want. The loser gets fucked as is common practice in war. It is the cold harsh reality of war. War is something horrible and dirty. Both sides will do terrible things to the other side. Such is the nature of war.
Actually, war is rule bound. It's called jus in bello (or international humanitarian law), a domain of international law. There are plenty of states which genuinely follow international law when engaged in armed conflict, and most countries generally follow at least parts of the obligations which fall to them.
Also, Israel probably did not attack the hospital to "prevent the care of the enemy", since it is perfectly unworried about the care being given in normal hospitals. This was probably due to faulty intelligence, imprecise fire, or simply part of Israel's practice of willingly using disproportionate force.
Finally, "whoever wins this war" will certainly not necessarily "[get] what they want". There are also no necessary winners in crises like this - Israel wants to reduce the amount of rockets coming its way, and its military operations aren't achieving that (quite the opposite). Israel wants to reduce the influence of Hamas, and is only helping it get new recruits by accusing it falsely and destroying the lives of the inhabitants of Gaza. Israel wants to reduce the extremism of Hamas, and is only giving more voice to its more extremist wings by using violence and inflammatory rhetoric itself. Israel would, ideally, like to improve its image on the international stage, but is only contributing to shooting it further down by disproportionately using force against civilians.
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On July 29 2014 18:03 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 17:58 WhiteDog wrote:How I read that : 7 bullshit things for you not to be pro palestinians. The 1 made me laugh I must add : 1. Why is everything so much worse when there are Jews involved? Who care about the jews ? It's not about jews, it's about Israel. And I want to remind everyone for the 50th time that there have been no proof on Hamas using human shield, while Israel has been condemn for it. You are free to read it as you want, Whitedog. Still, it is true that Assad killed 180,000 muslims and the fuss about it was 1/100 compared to now. What would have happened if Israel killed 180,000 muslims?
But you put aside the fact that those are two completly different topics. What people are enraged at in the israelo palestinian conflict is that it is the last colonial question still living. It has been going on forever, a lot of the youngster have heard about it for all their lives. French killing french is not the same as french killing algerians, because of the colonial question. There is a sense of injustice that arise as soon as the strong is beating on the weak, and that's morally and ethically a good feeling to follow.
Syria is a civil war, where atrocities are made, but in which it is very difficult to take side considering the freshness and the complexity of the situation.
Not to mention why do you say muslim ? Why do you have to assignate people to their religion ? It's palestinians, Israeli and Syrians.
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On July 29 2014 18:07 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 18:03 SoSexy wrote:On July 29 2014 17:58 WhiteDog wrote:How I read that : 7 bullshit things for you not to be pro palestinians. The 1 made me laugh I must add : 1. Why is everything so much worse when there are Jews involved? Who care about the jews ? It's not about jews, it's about Israel. And I want to remind everyone for the 50th time that there have been no proof on Hamas using human shield, while Israel has been condemn for it. You are free to read it as you want, Whitedog. Still, it is true that Assad killed 180,000 muslims and the fuss about it was 1/100 compared to now. What would have happened if Israel killed 180,000 muslims? But you put aside the fact that those are two completly different topics. What people are enraged at in the israelo palestinian conflict is that it is the last colonial question still living. It has been going on forever, a lot of the youngster have heard about it for all their lives. Syria is a civil war, where atrocities are made, but in which it is very difficult to take side considering the freshness and the complexity of the situation. Not to mention why do you say muslim ? Why do you have to assignate people to their religion ? It's palestinians, Israeli and Syrians. French killing french is not the same as french killing algerians, because of the colonial question.
So let me get this straight. You find it difficult to take sides in the Syrian conflict because of the complexity of the issue, but you have no problems with that when it comes to Israel? That is almost comical to be honest.
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On July 29 2014 18:11 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 18:07 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 18:03 SoSexy wrote:On July 29 2014 17:58 WhiteDog wrote:How I read that : 7 bullshit things for you not to be pro palestinians. The 1 made me laugh I must add : 1. Why is everything so much worse when there are Jews involved? Who care about the jews ? It's not about jews, it's about Israel. And I want to remind everyone for the 50th time that there have been no proof on Hamas using human shield, while Israel has been condemn for it. You are free to read it as you want, Whitedog. Still, it is true that Assad killed 180,000 muslims and the fuss about it was 1/100 compared to now. What would have happened if Israel killed 180,000 muslims? But you put aside the fact that those are two completly different topics. What people are enraged at in the israelo palestinian conflict is that it is the last colonial question still living. It has been going on forever, a lot of the youngster have heard about it for all their lives. Syria is a civil war, where atrocities are made, but in which it is very difficult to take side considering the freshness and the complexity of the situation. Not to mention why do you say muslim ? Why do you have to assignate people to their religion ? It's palestinians, Israeli and Syrians. French killing french is not the same as french killing algerians, because of the colonial question. So let me get this straight. You find it difficult to take sides in the Syrian conflict because of the complexity of the issue, but you have no problems with that when it comes to Israel? That is almost comical to be honest.
No it is not. You see complexity in the israelo palestinian conflict, and there is if you look at it from a historical standpoint.
Syria is another matter : the complexity that I am referring to is that it is so fresh that the different party are difficult to identify : while Assad is a dictator, much like Kadhafi was, and while he has done atrocities (and his father before him), there is a good chance that the people fighting assad, at this point, are islam extremists, and putting Assad out could create a situation much like lybia, irak or afghanistan, where a new democratical power would not be strong enough, institutionalized enough and rich enough to keep peace on its land.
It's not a historical complexity, it is a geo political complexity. How do you build a state ? The only answer is : it takes time, and that's the biggest problem we have with the arabo islamic world, because they had institutions that we destroyed during colonisation, and now that we left, everything is a mess.
Nobody in this world can seriously say that Israel will be in the same situation as lybia or irak if Palestinians finally get their own state. So while everybody sympathize with syrian refugee (one of my student last year was one, quite a brilliant girl) and syrian civilians, a lot of people don't know which channel is the best to help those people.
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On July 29 2014 18:11 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 18:07 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 18:03 SoSexy wrote:On July 29 2014 17:58 WhiteDog wrote:How I read that : 7 bullshit things for you not to be pro palestinians. The 1 made me laugh I must add : 1. Why is everything so much worse when there are Jews involved? Who care about the jews ? It's not about jews, it's about Israel. And I want to remind everyone for the 50th time that there have been no proof on Hamas using human shield, while Israel has been condemn for it. You are free to read it as you want, Whitedog. Still, it is true that Assad killed 180,000 muslims and the fuss about it was 1/100 compared to now. What would have happened if Israel killed 180,000 muslims? But you put aside the fact that those are two completly different topics. What people are enraged at in the israelo palestinian conflict is that it is the last colonial question still living. It has been going on forever, a lot of the youngster have heard about it for all their lives. Syria is a civil war, where atrocities are made, but in which it is very difficult to take side considering the freshness and the complexity of the situation. Not to mention why do you say muslim ? Why do you have to assignate people to their religion ? It's palestinians, Israeli and Syrians. French killing french is not the same as french killing algerians, because of the colonial question. So let me get this straight. You find it difficult to take sides in the Syrian conflict because of the complexity of the issue, but you have no problems with that when it comes to Israel? That is almost comical to be honest.
I find it comical to simplify the Syrian civil war to "Assad killed 180 000 muslims", then justify Israel mass murdering civilians because they have a right to defend themselves against rockets that killed 2 people over the last year.
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The amount of disinformation/misinformation in this list is staggering. Let's take an example:
5. Why are people asking for Israel to end the "occupation" in Gaza?
Because they have short memories.
In 2005, Israel ended the occupation in Gaza.
False. Israel is still an occupying power in Gaza. Having a physical presence within the area (whether in the form of settlers, soldiers, or else) is not necessary to fall under the legal definitions of "occupation"/"occupying power". So when people are asking for Israel to end the occupation in Gaza, it's not because they have short memories, it's because it's still going on.
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On July 29 2014 18:16 EtherealBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 18:11 BlueSpace wrote:On July 29 2014 18:07 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 18:03 SoSexy wrote:On July 29 2014 17:58 WhiteDog wrote:How I read that : 7 bullshit things for you not to be pro palestinians. The 1 made me laugh I must add : 1. Why is everything so much worse when there are Jews involved? Who care about the jews ? It's not about jews, it's about Israel. And I want to remind everyone for the 50th time that there have been no proof on Hamas using human shield, while Israel has been condemn for it. You are free to read it as you want, Whitedog. Still, it is true that Assad killed 180,000 muslims and the fuss about it was 1/100 compared to now. What would have happened if Israel killed 180,000 muslims? But you put aside the fact that those are two completly different topics. What people are enraged at in the israelo palestinian conflict is that it is the last colonial question still living. It has been going on forever, a lot of the youngster have heard about it for all their lives. Syria is a civil war, where atrocities are made, but in which it is very difficult to take side considering the freshness and the complexity of the situation. Not to mention why do you say muslim ? Why do you have to assignate people to their religion ? It's palestinians, Israeli and Syrians. French killing french is not the same as french killing algerians, because of the colonial question. So let me get this straight. You find it difficult to take sides in the Syrian conflict because of the complexity of the issue, but you have no problems with that when it comes to Israel? That is almost comical to be honest. I find it comical to simplify the Syrian civil war to "Assad killed 180 000 muslims", then justify Israel mass murdering civilians because they have a right to defend themselves against rockets that killed 2 people over the last year.
This is something specific to White Dog, who has argued very simplistic in regard to the Israel conflict, but then suddenly declares another conflict as too complex to judge. I find neither of them simple nor do I follow the argument, that Israel is justified in their actions by something that happens in Syria.
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On July 29 2014 18:22 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 18:16 EtherealBlade wrote:On July 29 2014 18:11 BlueSpace wrote:On July 29 2014 18:07 WhiteDog wrote:On July 29 2014 18:03 SoSexy wrote:On July 29 2014 17:58 WhiteDog wrote:How I read that : 7 bullshit things for you not to be pro palestinians. The 1 made me laugh I must add : 1. Why is everything so much worse when there are Jews involved? Who care about the jews ? It's not about jews, it's about Israel. And I want to remind everyone for the 50th time that there have been no proof on Hamas using human shield, while Israel has been condemn for it. You are free to read it as you want, Whitedog. Still, it is true that Assad killed 180,000 muslims and the fuss about it was 1/100 compared to now. What would have happened if Israel killed 180,000 muslims? But you put aside the fact that those are two completly different topics. What people are enraged at in the israelo palestinian conflict is that it is the last colonial question still living. It has been going on forever, a lot of the youngster have heard about it for all their lives. Syria is a civil war, where atrocities are made, but in which it is very difficult to take side considering the freshness and the complexity of the situation. Not to mention why do you say muslim ? Why do you have to assignate people to their religion ? It's palestinians, Israeli and Syrians. French killing french is not the same as french killing algerians, because of the colonial question. So let me get this straight. You find it difficult to take sides in the Syrian conflict because of the complexity of the issue, but you have no problems with that when it comes to Israel? That is almost comical to be honest. I find it comical to simplify the Syrian civil war to "Assad killed 180 000 muslims", then justify Israel mass murdering civilians because they have a right to defend themselves against rockets that killed 2 people over the last year. This is something specific to White Dog, who has argued very simplistic in regard to the Israel conflict, but then suddenly declares another conflict as too complex to judge. I find neither of them simple nor do I follow the argument, that Israel is justified in their actions by something that happens in Syria.
I wanted to add something with what I said in Syria before :
Since thirty years there have been a broad consensus on the two state solution in the israelo palestinian conflict - in 1990 UN general assemblee, the vote is 151 to 3 for the two state settlement (the US, Israeli and Dominica). That's pretty simple to me.
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On July 29 2014 18:03 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 17:58 WhiteDog wrote:How I read that : 7 bullshit things for you not to be pro palestinians. The 1 made me laugh I must add : 1. Why is everything so much worse when there are Jews involved? Who care about the jews ? It's not about jews, it's about Israel. And I want to remind everyone for the 50th time that there have been no proof on Hamas using human shield, while Israel has been condemn for it. You are free to read it as you want, Whitedog. Still, it is true that Assad killed 180,000 muslims and the fuss about it was 1/100 compared to now. What would have happened if Israel killed 180,000 muslims?
I will make a very cynical and unfitting comparison here.
If Syria and Israel were both League of Legends players, what they are both doing is feeding horribly. However, Israel is blaming the jungler, cursing at the op-champions of the enemy team in all-chat and calls them out as "fagets" and wishes them cancer in real life. Syria on the other hand is just quietly feeding. Which one of them are you reporting?
THe thread about the syrian conflict is opened, people report of what is happening there, everybody agrees that it's terrible and needs to stop but we can't do anything about it.
The thread about the conflict in Palestina is opened, and pro-israeli yell at the others for being anti-semite and pro-hamas. And Israel behaves as if they are the only victim and all the atrocities they do is jst self-defense cause they have no choice.
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Do you guys think that if Israel surrendered to Hamas' conditions, even giving them East Jerusalem, do you really think they would put down their weapons forever?
Or do you think in few years they'd find something else to fight about?
Just asking, because in the Hamas' charter there is a quote from the Hadith that goes like:
Book 041, Number 6985:
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.
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No, not right now. But if you stop the settlements, lift the embargo, stop treating the citizen of westbank like criminals and grantz real humanitarian aid, not just what you have to do, then do this for 20 years, the Hamas will probably not exist anymore.
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EPT
