Hey, can you rather make a new thread with an up-to-date OP that gives a summary of what is happening? Thanks.
zatic
On June 12, 2014, 3 Israel youths disappeared in the West Bank of Israel occupied, Fatah administered Palestine. 20 days later the boys bodies were found dead. In between, Israel launched a massive manhunt, arrested hundreds of Hamas activists on whom the Israeli government placed the blame. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.602189
The next day IDF launched a number of limited strikes into Gaza, Hamas claims that it didnt respond with a return missile salvo but various other Palestinian groups -- Islamic Jihad for example -- returned fired. http://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5860718/israel-gaza-three-boys
July 5, 2014, the kidnapped Palestinian boy's cousin is brutally beat up by Israel police while he was taking part in the protest in the West Bank.
There had been sporadic rocket fire throughout the crisis, but Hamas launched a wave of 40 rockets on July 8th, for which it claimed responsibility for the first time since 2012. Then Israel launched more strikes in Gaza, as part of what Netanyahu said was an effort to make Hamas "pay a heavy price."
By July 11th, 100 Palestinians had been killed by about 1000 Israeli airstrikes. Roughly 700 rockets had been fired, making this easily the most significant escalation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict since the 2012 Gaza war. By July 14th, the total casualties had exceeded the 2012 conflict.
Israel then began a physical invasion into Gaza, which has predictably led to numerous casualties for both sides (prior to the land invasion of Gaza, Israel causalities were limited to one individual vs several hundred for the Palestinians, excluding the already captured Hamas operatives who were taken as part of Israel's search for the boys)
Among other developments are: the possible capture of an IDF soldier by Hamas (Hamas definitely claims they captured him, IDF says he is missing), a successful missile strike on Ben Gurion Airport (successful in the sense that several US airlines have declared they are suspending flights to Israel indefinitely, surely influenced at least in part by the MH17 disaster), and an escalation of broader anti-Semitic sentiment in world wide: http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/21/pro-gaza-rallies-worldwide-tainted-by-anti-semitism-calgary-organizer-to-apologize-for-violence/
Anyway, here is was my take on the thing, influenced by some things I read but I cant find off the top of my head: Responding to someone else declaring Israel is a lunatic state.
Its not a lunatic state. Likud -- the ruling party -- and Hamas are engaged in a mutual beneficial theater at the cost of their respective peoples. Likud has used the excuse of the kidnappings to undermine the recent Hamas-Fatah unity government -- the unity government which by the way accepted Fatah's policy of recognizing Israel in order to survive -- and build up domestic political support for right wing factions. Hamas is trying to recapture its role as the 'front line' resistance to 'colonialism' or whatever in the Arab world. Between Hamas being cut of by Damascus-Iran because it doesnt more explicitly support Asad's regime and being cut off by the Mosri Egyptian regime for not supporting the rebels AND all the success of various ISlamists in Iraq and Syria the Hamas were finally broke. Their deal with Fatah would have brought in Fatah moneys to keep Hamas' staff paid -- which for the first time they have failed to do this year.
So Netanyahu gets to break up any kind of Palestinian reconciliation, gets a natural war boost, and smashes Hamas cells in the West banks. Hamas gets a lot of sympathetic press and more Gulf money its way that previously was going to Syria, it also might get Egypt's military rulers to 'forgive it' for being an Islamic group and open the crossings on the Egyptian side.
Its actually awfully rational from both sides. As long as we exclude the fact that either want a 'long lasting/just' peace.
So really, the sad state of affairs is that Israel will probably bomb for a bit more -- it cant withdraw now after suffering the most casualties since their 06 battle with Hezballah -- and that will be that. We'll be back to this in another 3-4 years.
And here is Jon Stewart's excellent take on the nature of the debate on the whole conflict itself, although from an American and maybe Jewish American perspective:
And because of the nature of the conflict -- IDF has better guns, more troops and Gaza is a densely populated area and quite frankly Hamas knows PR is important -- the conflict is disproportionately falling on Palestinian civilians. Graphic from the Washington Post
On July 23 2014 08:15 Adrian_mx wrote: Whats the gaza war? I just foud out about it yesterday whats it about can someone fill me in?
Gaza is basically North Korea if North Korea had no military, didn't have China as an ally, and was raided and bombed by South Korea every once in a while. Aka a country that is completely isolated, has a terrible economy, leadership by propaganda and extreme rhetoric and is basically under the military occupation of Israel whenever Israeli politicians need support in the knesset.
On July 23 2014 08:22 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Genocide by attrition.
This war makes me feel hopeless about life. Why would people hate each other this much?
There isn't even an aggressor, or a reason for any of it based on any recent history, just a back and forth shit slinging contest. Obviously the Palestinians come off far worse because they don't have the technology, support, money or weapons.
Is it an oversimplification to say that it basically comes down to natural human racism and the consequences of it in our society?
Anyway, i hope a country with actual influence and money stands up for Palestine one day. Seems like the Israelis can get away with whatever they want and everyone is too scared to stand against them.
As we've seen before, Israel is bat shit crazy and will destroy anyone that threatens them. Sadly, events like this inevitably take the lives of hundreds (possibly thousands, in the coming months) of innocent people. I hope an understanding will somehow be reached, and the loss of innocent lives is kept to a minimum.
On July 23 2014 08:35 Jockmcplop wrote: This war makes me feel hopeless about life. Why would people hate each other this much?
There isn't even an aggressor, or a reason for any of it based on any recent history, just a back and forth shit slinging contest. Obviously the Palestinians come off far worse because they don't have the technology, support, money or weapons.
Is it an oversimplification to say that it basically comes down to natural human racism and the consequences of it in our society?
Anyway, i hope a country with actual influence and money stands up for Palestine one day. Seems like the Israelis can get away with whatever they want and everyone is too scared to stand against them.
On July 23 2014 08:35 Jockmcplop wrote: This war makes me feel hopeless about life. Why would people hate each other this much?
There isn't even an aggressor, or a reason for any of it based on any recent history, just a back and forth shit slinging contest. Obviously the Palestinians come off far worse because they don't have the technology, support, money or weapons.
Is it an oversimplification to say that it basically comes down to natural human racism and the consequences of it in our society?
Anyway, i hope a country with actual influence and money stands up for Palestine one day. Seems like the Israelis can get away with whatever they want and everyone is too scared to stand against them.
Religion. Look up interviews with settlers moving into illegal settlements. God's chosen people etc.
The settlers and Hamas are literally indistinguishable to me. They sound exactly the same "well go clearly gave this land to me so time to die everyone else"
On July 23 2014 08:35 Jockmcplop wrote: This war makes me feel hopeless about life. Why would people hate each other this much?
There isn't even an aggressor, or a reason for any of it based on any recent history, just a back and forth shit slinging contest. Obviously the Palestinians come off far worse because they don't have the technology, support, money or weapons.
Is it an oversimplification to say that it basically comes down to natural human racism and the consequences of it in our society?
Anyway, i hope a country with actual influence and money stands up for Palestine one day. Seems like the Israelis can get away with whatever they want and everyone is too scared to stand against them.
Religion. Look up interviews with settlers moving into illegal settlements. God's chosen people etc.
Yup. Religion crossed with racism. If you haven't seen and you have got a spare hour, watch the entire documentary i posted: 5 Steps to tyranny. The embed is at a time when they are specifically talking about Israel, but the whole documentary sums up the process going on on both sides.
Dehumanization, propaganda, following orders, fear of dissent, all of this stuff is going on. Its incredible how susceptible we all are to this kind of thing. The people commiting these crimes against humanity are not bad, the people controlling the propaganda are. To put it in gaming terms, its an exploit. But it exploits bugs in our brains and causes us to become capable of unspeakable things.
It's not for a lack of trying to kill Israeli civilians it's closer to just gross incompetence of the groups operating out of the west bank in comparison of the over time fortification of Israel in the effective rocket range. Either way escalation by extremists on both sides just leads to further punting the core problems down the road.
It was interesting because I was listening to NPR today on the way to school this morning and this was the first time I have heard the three people, an associate ambassador to the US from Israel, a middle eastern journalist (supporter of the Fatah Party), and a CNN journalism literally yelling at each other every time a question was asked. NPR programs usually contain quite controlled debates. The callers that were asking the three people questions seem to be surprisingly pro-palestinian so I'm wondering if the tide of public opinion is turning on Israel in the US.
It's not for a lack of trying to kill Israeli civilians it's closer to just gross incompetence of the groups operating out of the west bank in comparison of the over time fortification of Israel in the effective rocket range. Either way escalation by extremists on both sides just leads to further punting the core problems down the road.
Well, from the perspective of both radicals -- like i said in op -- this kind of conflict is 'great' since moderates are silenced, the most radical guys get the most support and whatnot.
On July 23 2014 08:35 Jockmcplop wrote: This war makes me feel hopeless about life. Why would people hate each other this much?
There isn't even an aggressor, or a reason for any of it based on any recent history, just a back and forth shit slinging contest. Obviously the Palestinians come off far worse because they don't have the technology, support, money or weapons.
Is it an oversimplification to say that it basically comes down to natural human racism and the consequences of it in our society?
Anyway, i hope a country with actual influence and money stands up for Palestine one day. Seems like the Israelis can get away with whatever they want and everyone is too scared to stand against them.
Religion. Look up interviews with settlers moving into illegal settlements. God's chosen people etc.
The settlers and Hamas are literally indistinguishable to me. They sound exactly the same "well go clearly gave this land to me so time to die everyone else"
There is a huge difference between a nutjob who feels entitled to someone's home due to an ideology and a nutjob who is legitimately defending their homeland. The Red Army during World War II was filled with batshit crazy Stalinists, but that did not make their right to defend their homeland any less legitimate. And before more people say"If only we did not have religion..." I would recommend that you watch this lecture that covers the history of Zionism and reasons for Zionism. It is much more than "muh religion"
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.washingtonpost.com/rw/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/07/22/Foreign/Graphics/wGaza.jpg)
