Gaza war 2014 - Page 117

On August 18 2014 03:00 Jormundr wrote:

You don't seem very educated here, as you seem to be repeating what's aired on fox news. Small history lesson:

First Intifada: Started with the number of Israeli settlers (and corresponding military troops to keep the natives in their huts) doubling between 1984 and 1988 and then again between 1988 and 1994. Add to this the constant talk in the knesset in the 80s of moving the palestinians out of the territories (a practice known as ethnic cleansing) and you have a powder keg which exploded when Israeli forces killed a few too many of their prisoners. This turned into Ferguson, but with the police being the army and the army shooting palestinians wholesale. Since this didn't work (WHEN THE FUCK HAS THIS EVER WORKED?) after killing about 300 they decided that instead of killing people who threw rocks at them, after 300 kills they switched to using plastic bullets and sticks to beat the shit out of all the palestinians. This benevolent gesture was lost on the ungrateful palestinians at the time.

Then we have Yitzhak Rabin, who was the first person to actually offer peace in any reasonable terms to the palestinians in 35 years. It is not surprising that there were massive protests in Israel over this. He was shot to death by a National Zionist who (surprise) didn't want peace with the palestinians. (This is important because it comes up again later)

Fast forward to the camp david talks in 2000 and you have Israel offering less than half of what was offered during the Oslo Accords, continuing settlements and Yasser Arafat walking out on the 'be our bitch, you don't have a choice' talks. Then two months later Ariel Sharon, the man responsible for the Sabra and Shatila massacre, decided he would show the world how docile the Palestinians segregated in eastern Jerusalem could be by doing a fucking photo op on the temple mount shortly after the 18th anniversary of his massacre. Funnily enough, he was another National Zionist.

This lead to rioting in east jerusalem, which led to Israeli soldiers showing once more that they don't give two shits about Palestinian lives, which lead to a massive palestinian uprising in east jerusalem, the west bank, and the gaza strip. This was the beginning of the second Intifada, which was significant because it was the first time that Israel felt the civilian casualties they had been bestowing on the Palestinians for the past 40 years, although Israel still managed to kill palestinians at a rate of more than four to one. This ended in 2005 with Israel finishing the majority of its fortifications in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (which were started in the early 90s) which turned them into internment camps (whereas before they were internment camps without actual walls).


Israel has, since its inception, proven without exception that it is hellbent on the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from their own land. They showed this when they started to arrive, they showed it when they were bombing the british, they showed it in the ethnic cleansing of 1948 when they literally drove the palestinians from their homes. They have shown it ever since with the consistent brutality of their military towards Palestinians, their apartheid treatment of both Palestinians and Israeli Muslims through law, and the occasional heavy handed massacre. They have shown it by slowly taking away the lands, rights, lives, and freedom of the palestinians without ever offering so much as an apology.

You ask why the United Nations doesn't care about sudan when they have peacekeeping forces in Sudan and have hosted meetings between opposing sides in sudan. The UN is actively involved there, whereas Israel has barred any UN involvement on the ground. North Korea doesn't factor in because their abuses are common knowledge, it's just that nobody is willing to fight China. China's abuses are also well documented, but nobody is willing to fight China, Russia, the US, and the EU. Israel is a target of UN resolutions because the international community is what has protected Israel since its inception.
You can ask why people in the west are so critical of Israel and I can tell you at the very least it is because for secular jews like me and liberal jews outside of Israel it seems that the National Zionists learned way too much from the National Socialists. We do not want an Israel which stands on the throats of the Palestinians simply for existing, which has been the modus operandi of Israel since it took over the territories in 1967.

On August 18 2014 06:35 radiatoren wrote:

A few additions to counterbalance it a bit:
Hamas and Islamic Jihad were infuriated by the killings near the Al-Aqsa mosque in 1990 during the first intifada. It caused these organized islamic extremists to carry out a number of stabbings on israelis. PLO didn't manage to contain them and at the time it was still questioned if they indeed had given up arms and their international terrorism for good. Up through the 1990's Islamic Jihad conducted a number of suicide bombings against Israel.

The second intifada was initially driven by the Camp David breakdown followed by Sharons visit to the Al-Aqsa mosque in 2000 to show that Likud (Netanyahus party) would never ceed it to Palestine. A year later it evolved into a lot of suicide bombers from Islamic Jihad and Hamas starting their firing of rockets at Israel. The problems have been severely reduced with the fences that effectively have stopped the suicide bombings and the Iron Dome for the rockets. The attack tunnels used by the extremists in Palestine is just the latest threat to Israels security.

While Israel has conducted something most other nations would call state terror and ethnic cleansing, the palestinean authorities have been completely inept at assuring Israels safety. The nuances are lost in time. The real problems in Palestine has to do with the extremist militants having too much of a say compared to political authorities. Some would also call the firing of rockets from Hamas since their military coup in 2007 for state terror. The palestinean authorities in Gaza have been somewhere between inept and willfully disobedient at curtailing extremism. The lack of trust in them as a guarantee against attacks on Israel is what is killing most hope for a solution.

On August 18 2014 08:05 Xiphos wrote:
But I'm hoping for both to actually sit down and talk about the situation rather than letting their religion ideology cloud over their judgement.

On August 18 2014 08:05 Xiphos wrote:
But I'm hoping for both to actually sit down and talk about the situation rather than letting their religion ideology cloud over their judgement.

On August 18 2014 11:01 Yoav wrote:


Yeah, this really isn't about religion. Persecuted nation sets up shop in new territory, encounters resistance from locals. Sure, they differ in religion, and this sometimes gets roped into the rhetoric, but you might as well say the American/Indian conflict was about religion. It was racial, colonial, religious, yes, but mostly it was about land and resources.