EPTSo, why don't you just check out one of the documentaries about the west bank that is linked in this thread and then think again if you want to be treated the way life is there. And if you think that is okay, then you can tell me that the Israelis are doig anything in their power to solve this problem. You donÄt have to tell me though that hamas is terrible, cause, i know.
Gaza war 2014 - Page 118
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Broetchenholer
Germany1970 Posts
So, why don't you just check out one of the documentaries about the west bank that is linked in this thread and then think again if you want to be treated the way life is there. And if you think that is okay, then you can tell me that the Israelis are doig anything in their power to solve this problem. You donÄt have to tell me though that hamas is terrible, cause, i know. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28923 Posts
I'd also like to know what makes you a bigger authority on the differences and similarities between Israel and South Africa than desmond tutu. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On August 21 2014 23:54 Sermokala wrote: The article is terrible. Its gotten worse for the Palestinians because the other countries in the regions keep choseing war over peace. Isreal hasn't decided to start numerous wars against its neighbors. the violent upriseing by the palestines is why they are locked behind stone walls. Isreal isn't the one that has always opening called for the abject slaughter of all palestinians. Isreal is the one thats trying to lower civilian casualties while hamas is the one trying to increase it. You can't look at a conflict that has gone for thousands of years based on what you see in the past few months. Gaza and south africa couldn't be any more different. You are wrong on the first point. Jordan and Egypt have both made peace with Israel in recent years. With Lebanon and Syria the situation is improved to a point where the countries don't have regular bombings of Israeli territory which is a significant improvement. The neighboring countries have thus not exactly encouraged or started war with Israel in recent times. More like ending it. The palestineans have gotten more and more extremists among themself, one-lining the situation is unjustified. It also arguably comes as a response to more and more extreme measures used by Israel. When we are talking Likud and further to the right they barely recognise Jordan as non-israeli. They have a more modern ethnic cleansing by relocalising them rather than straight of genocide in their minds. Israel does something to lower civilian casualties, but when bombing from the air, preventive measures are impossible to make sufficient to avoid civilian casualties. Arguably, if Hamas is using human shields they are ensured to kill more civilians by not confirming the targets on the ground. You can't seriously call the conflict in Israel thousands of years long, with a straight face? Read up on the issues and the different immigrations to and from the region. Jews are not just jews... Gaza and South Africa is pretty different. If anything the West Bank is a lot closer to the apartheit South Africa. | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
On August 21 2014 23:54 Sermokala wrote: The article is terrible. Its gotten worse for the Palestinians because the other countries in the regions keep choseing war over peace. Isreal hasn't decided to start numerous wars against its neighbors. the violent upriseing by the palestines is why they are locked behind stone walls. Isreal isn't the one that has always opening called for the abject slaughter of all palestinians. Isreal is the one thats trying to lower civilian casualties while hamas is the one trying to increase it. You can't look at a conflict that has gone for thousands of years based on what you see in the past few months. Gaza and south africa couldn't be any more different. You couldn't be any more wrong. First of all, the palestinians are not "the other countries in the region". They're Israeli, as the vast majority of them are natural born Israeli citizens (I.E. they were born on Israeli soil). You're going to have to be more specific about which 'violent uprising' you're talking about, because most of the 'violent uprisings' have been started by people who want to cleanse the Palestinians from the Jewish holy land. This fox news painting of Israel as a secular utopia is akin to saying that blacks and whites got along famously in the US in the 1960s because the whites were such generous people. Inter-religious conflicts are also mentioned: "There were reports on haredi Jews insulting and spitting at priests and nuns, and defacing with graffiti and throwing garbage and dead cats at monasteries in Jerusalem." source Video has emerged of far-right Israeli protesters celebrating the death of children in Gaza during a counter-demonstration to an anti-war rally in Tel Aviv’s Rabin Square over the weekend. “There is no school tomorrow; there are no children left in Gaza,” the men can be seen chanting as part of a roughly formed song that also included the stanzas “I hate all the Arabs” and “Gaza is a cemetery.” The mob also called for Israeli Arabs to be stripped of their citizenship. source "We must crush them. Hamas must not be allowed to decide whether my family may sleep peacefully at night." source This alone is indicative of the Israeli attitude. To justify the murder of thousands because of the 48 rocket deaths (including 11 palestinians) between 2004 and july 2014. Mathematically : 37 divided by 10 years, divided by 6.1 million (jewish population of Israel, because the arabs don't matter) * 100,000 gives us the per capita death rate per year of .060655 per 100,000 Jews dying from rocket attacks. What else is worth going to war over, hmm? Well look no further: Pretty much everything on this list. So yeah, I guess Israel better start shooting their fat people because they seem to be far bigger killers. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On August 22 2014 00:55 Jormundr wrote: You couldn't be any more wrong. First of all, the palestinians are not "the other countries in the region". They're Israeli, as the vast majority of them are natural born Israeli citizens (I.E. they were born on Israeli soil). You're going to have to be more specific about which 'violent uprising' you're talking about, because most of the 'violent uprisings' have been started by people who want to cleanse the Palestinians from the Jewish holy land. This fox news painting of Israel as a secular utopia is akin to saying that blacks and whites got along famously in the US in the 1960s because the whites were such generous people. source source source This alone is indicative of the Israeli attitude. To justify the murder of thousands because of the 48 rocket deaths (including 11 palestinians) between 2004 and july 2014. Mathematically : 37 divided by 10 years, divided by 6.1 million (jewish population of Israel, because the arabs don't matter) * 100,000 gives us the per capita death rate per year of .060655 per 100,000 Jews dying from rocket attacks. What else is worth going to war over, hmm? Well look no further: Pretty much everything on this list. So yeah, I guess Israel better start shooting their fat people because they seem to be far bigger killers. Please. The above mentioned people are probably of the same kind a photographer caught sitting on a hill, cheering and drinking champagne as bombs hit Gaza (the photographer was called a nazi by Netanyahu, good times!). There are a lot of peaceful israelis and as can be seen from the peace demonstration in Tel Aviv they are protesting the extreme measures taken by IDF. Conflating Hamas with every palestinean is pretty equivalent to conflating Israel with the israeli government. Don't get me wrong, there are people more extreme than those, but the majority are less extreme and more dialogue-seeking than their governments. | ||
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Liman
Serbia681 Posts
Great work Israel,escalating the conflict will realy help reaching peacefull solution. This war is terrorism vs state terrorism. Sad. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
ABC news Apart from that towering building another 7-story building and the largest shopping center in Rafah was targeted as part of the new tactic of hitting any building where "terrorist activity" takes place: Jerusalem online (more biased wording but more information) Syrian and Lebanese rockets have hit northern Israel. That is really concerning when it comes to the stability in the region. Deutche Welle | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
Guardian As it says it is still just a ceasefire and a lot of solutions have been deferred to later peacetalk. Abbas sounds pretty frustrated by the way negotiations are handled by courier. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1970 Posts
Someone from Hamas, with or without knowing of the bosses, wil start throwing stones with Palestinian Space Program again, Israel will answer with destroying the homes of 800 families and it all starts again. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
The appropriation of 3,799 dunams (988 acres) of West Bank land between the Etzion settlement bloc and Jerusalem was announced on Sunday by the Israel Defense Forces' Civil Administration. The appropriation was decided on by the cabinet last week as a response to the kidnapping and killing of three Jewish teens by Hamas militants in the area in June, according to the administration's announcement. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.613319 Imagine if it was Russia taking land from Ukraine, ho the international shit storm... But it's Israel... | ||
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mijagi182
Poland797 Posts
On September 01 2014 03:53 WhiteDog wrote: Israel showing their true visage once again, grabing land from cisjordania because who the fuck will prevent them from doing so ? And since when grabing land is a "response" to the murder of 3 children ? Stupid? http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.613319 Imagine if it was Russia taking land from Ukraine, ho the international shit storm... But it's Israel... Imagine if? Where have you been last 6 months lol? That is basically what has happened in Crimea, and will probably continue considering recent events. Whether there is an adequate international shit storm, it is discussable though. ofc it doesn't change the fact that, if what you linked is true (and it appears to be, since even our Ministry of Foreign Affairs gave statement on that) Israel authorithies behave disgustingly. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On September 04 2014 23:17 mijagi182 wrote: Imagine if? Where have you been last 6 months lol? That is basically what has happened in Crimea, and will probably continue considering recent events. Whether there is an adequate international shit storm, it is discussable though. ofc it doesn't change the fact that, if what you linked is true (and it appears to be, since even our Ministry of Foreign Affairs gave statement on that) Israel authorithies behave disgustingly. It is in their Allon plus plan (A progressive jewish spin on some of the modern developments Mondoweiss. It includes some historic quotes to make the point.). Netanyahu has also increased the expansion of new settlements by increasing the area they want to take away from Palestineans on the West Bank. Last I heard a government official from Israel, the reason was the paper-thin "but they may be given up in a peacedeal" (even that has been rejected by Netanyahu and his current stand seems to be that Palestine will have to endure israeli settlers in their territory after a line has been drawn. It sounds problematic given that it could lead to an embracing of a russian foreign policy of every russian, no matter where they live is part of the russian nation and has the same rights as if they live in Russia.). In turn it is used as a negotiation chip to pressure the Palestinean authorities to the negotiation table with more and more unfavourable deals the longer they wait. The problem in this way of thinking is that Israel has absolutely no incentive to agree to Palestinean demands before all settlements are done and since they keep adding settlements to the plan, they will basically never have an incentive to agree to a partition before all Palestinean land is officially annexed. It is not pretty at all, but that is the far right in Israel for you. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
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direct99
United Kingdom2 Posts
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On September 05 2014 22:38 xM(Z wrote: you talk of Palestine as if it actually exists, as if it's a country or something. Palestine does exist. The right of the Palestinian people to have their own country is not even in dispute, the UN has recognised that they should have a state that encompasses atleast the gaza strip, the west bank and east-jerusalem. They exist, as a state, in international law, most of it is however occupied, and the rest of it is blockaded. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On September 05 2014 22:38 xM(Z wrote: you talk of Palestine as if it actually exists, as if it's a country or something. Hehe, that opinion would be slightly further to the right politically in Israel (or something would actually cover most of the right wing since they see Palestine as a collective name for those infected provinces.).  Be aware that the only time I use Palestine as a state is as a future happening. The other times I denote palestineans it is as a people (revisionist zionism even seems to recognize their existance though they may call them jordanians) and palestinean authorities (which you may actually have a point about even if Mahmoud Abbas and Hamas are good punshing bags for when something goes wrong in the regions!). | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On September 04 2014 23:17 mijagi182 wrote: Imagine if? Where have you been last 6 months lol? That is basically what has happened in Crimea, and will probably continue considering recent events. Whether there is an adequate international shit storm, it is discussable though. ofc it doesn't change the fact that, if what you linked is true (and it appears to be, since even our Ministry of Foreign Affairs gave statement on that) Israel authorithies behave disgustingly. I was obviously pointing out the imbalance in western countries stance in regard to palestine / ukraine. Of course I know Russia took Crimea - a land they owned some 60 years ago. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
On September 05 2014 23:14 Crushinator wrote: Palestine does exist. The right of the Palestinian people to have their own country is not even in dispute, the UN has recognised that they should have a state that encompasses atleast the gaza strip, the west bank and east-jerusalem. They exist, as a state, in international law, most of it is however occupied, and the rest of it is blockaded. that means nothing. de facto > de jure. until 2012 Palestine was an "observer entity" and now it's an "observer state" (and even that later state of existence, is recognized only by ~70%? of UN). it (PLO) just observes how its people get killed and its territories stolen and that's about it. | ||
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