EPT"This is beneath contempt," Scarborough railed. "These people on the far right are being fools to try to make this a political issue.”
Yeah, shame on them, it's only race-baiting Democrats who are allowed to make this a political issue.
Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 23
| Forum Index > General Forum |
This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. | ||
|
Freddybear
United States126 Posts
"This is beneath contempt," Scarborough railed. "These people on the far right are being fools to try to make this a political issue.” Yeah, shame on them, it's only race-baiting Democrats who are allowed to make this a political issue. | ||
|
Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On March 31 2012 05:57 Saryph wrote: You said it, not me, and it is definitely no ad hominem. You are in no way contributing to the discussion when you just start throwing out every single 'what-if' you randomly come upon. You saying he got into a fight with his gf on the phone, and that led to the fight and death of the kid is based on nothing at all. In fact, you're accusing witnesses of lying, based on what? Get the story straight. + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2012 05:06 JinDesu wrote: With the two stories from the father and the brother - it still doesn't coincide with the thought that George Zimmerman was returning to his car when he was attacked from behind. Trayvon Martin was on the phone a very short time before the cops got there. It still seems very very odd for Trayvon to attack a person while on the phone - or so shortly after getting off the phone. I didn't "start throwing out every single 'what-if' I randomly come upon", I was replying to another poster who brought up Martin's state of mind after getting off the phone, finding it hard to believe that Martin could attack someone right after getting off the phone. I established that it was, in fact, possible. You keep attacking me and trying to derail the discussion. Stop it. | ||
|
JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:06 Zato-1 wrote: Get the story straight. + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2012 05:06 JinDesu wrote: With the two stories from the father and the brother - it still doesn't coincide with the thought that George Zimmerman was returning to his car when he was attacked from behind. Trayvon Martin was on the phone a very short time before the cops got there. It still seems very very odd for Trayvon to attack a person while on the phone - or so shortly after getting off the phone. I didn't "start throwing out every single 'what-if' I randomly come upon", I was replying to another poster who brought up Martin's state of mind after getting off the phone, finding it hard to believe that Martin could attack someone right after getting off the phone. I established that it was, in fact, possible. You keep attacking me and trying to derail the discussion. Stop it. Regardless: See below. "At 7.16pm, four minutes after the call began, the phone went dead." "By the time police arrive on the scene, at 7.17pm, Martin lay fatally wounded by a gunshot to the chest." Trayvon Martin was on the phone until 7:16pm. The altercation was over by 7:17pm. That is according to: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/trayvon-martin-death-story-so-far?newsfeed=true Unless the timeline is incorrect, it seems very unlikely that Trayvon Martin hung up the phone, approached Mr. Zimmerman unaware, struck him from behind, and mounted him, smashed his head against the ground, and punched him. That is all without the girlfriend's testimony. With the girlfriend's testimony, it then becomes: Mr. Zimmerman approaches Trayvon Martin as he is on the phone. Physical altercation results, causing the phone to disconnect at 7:16. In the minute after, Trayvon Martin is shot. When I read that timeline and then I read the report stating that George Zimmerman claimed he was walking back to the truck and was attacked from behind, I felt very uneasy. | ||
|
Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:06 Zato-1 wrote: Get the story straight. + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2012 05:06 JinDesu wrote: With the two stories from the father and the brother - it still doesn't coincide with the thought that George Zimmerman was returning to his car when he was attacked from behind. Trayvon Martin was on the phone a very short time before the cops got there. It still seems very very odd for Trayvon to attack a person while on the phone - or so shortly after getting off the phone. I didn't "start throwing out every single 'what-if' I randomly come upon", I was replying to another poster who brought up Martin's state of mind after getting off the phone, finding it hard to believe that Martin could attack someone right after getting off the phone. I established that it was, in fact, possible. You keep attacking me and trying to derail the discussion. Stop it. It's just this line of thought requires the supposedly angry girlfriend to lie about everything she heard on the phone, to something in favor of the boy she was supposedly mad at. On a personal note, sorry if I did come off overly hostile against you, I didn't stop to fully read out your quote, and jumped to the wrong conclusion when I read your initial post that I quoted. After reading, in this thread and the previous one, so many people making up biased, unsubstantiated pieces of information to make it suddenly the kid's fault, when we don't know the truth, I admit I am a quick to assume the worst from this thread. | ||
|
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
| ||
|
Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 31 2012 05:58 Freddybear wrote: Yeah, shame on them, it's only race-baiting Democrats who are allowed to make this a political issue. Republicans have a bad enough rep already. Last thing that they need is to be seen as digging through the grave of a dead 17 year old. No lefties have gone as far as hacked Zimmerman's email and facebook ... yet. The best thing the Right can do now politically is hang back and allow the Spike Lees of the world overreact and make fools of themselves. | ||
|
JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:19 ticklishmusic wrote: Far as the timeline goes for the cell phone call, the 911 call, the arrival of police, has it been confirmed that all the times are accurate, and that someone's watch wasn't off? I would like to know that, but I am under the belief that the time for the cellphone was provided by the service provider (I forget who it was, not Verizon). I cannot say for the police, and I cannot say how synchronised the call center was. The time in between still seems very short for a person to sneak up on a man unaware, hit him, mount him, smash his head against the gruond, prepare to punch, followed by a gunshot that no one saw, followed by Mr. Zimmerman getting up and standing over the body (which witnesses saw), followed by the cops arriving. | ||
|
Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:21 Defacer wrote: Republicans have a bad enough rep already. Last thing that they need is to be seen as digging through the grave of a dead 17 year old. No lefties have gone as far as hacked Zimmerman's email and facebook ... yet. The best thing the Right can do now politically is hang back and allow the Spike Lees of the world overreact and make fools of themselves. I wouldn't connect white supremacists with the republican party, even if white supremacists might vote for them. It's not really fair to them, and there are a lot of bad people who vote for the democratic party as well. Though it might just be the way I am reading your post, and you didn't mean it that way. | ||
|
dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T3YkYtn4a9Y call started at 7:12. doesnt say length or show how many minutes used. ![[image loading]](http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_trayvon_martin_phone_call_dm_120320_main.jpg) | ||
|
dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:21 Defacer wrote: Republicans have a bad enough rep already. Last thing that they need is to be seen as digging through the grave of a dead 17 year old. No lefties have gone as far as hacked Zimmerman's email and facebook ... yet. The best thing the Right can do now politically is hang back and allow the Spike Lees of the world overreact and make fools of themselves. comparing a white power group to the republicans is like comparing the New Black Panthers to the democrats. lets not do that. | ||
|
JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:26 dAPhREAk wrote: another source on call with girlfriend. http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T3YkYtn4a9Y call started at 7:12. doesnt say length or show how many minutes used. I'm trying to find the source for the 7:16. I can't imagine it'd be "made up" considering her phone has a call log and would say how long. Heck, his phone has a call log too! | ||
|
Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:26 Saryph wrote: I wouldn't connect white supremacists with the republican party, even if white supremacists might vote for them. It's not really fair to them, and there are a lot of bad people who vote for the democratic party as well. Though it might just be the way I am reading your post, and you didn't mean it that way. Scarborough is criticizing the far right nutjobs (like White Supremacists) for fanning the flames, and some of mainstream conservative media for picking up what they find. Scarborough is like, "NOT WORTH IT." He also criticized Republicans for making women's contraception a big issue in an election year. Risking the alienation the tens of millions of women -- including republicans -- that use birth control is not exactly a winning strategy. | ||
|
dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:32 JinDesu wrote: I'm trying to find the source for the 7:16. I can't imagine it'd be "made up" considering her phone has a call log and would say how long. Heck, his phone has a call log too! i assume the call duration is to the right on the document. usually is on my cellphone records. they just didnt post the entire document unfortunately. | ||
|
Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:34 Defacer wrote: Scarborough is criticizing the far right nutjobs (like White Supremacists) for fanning the flames, and some of mainstream conservative media for picking up what they find. Scarborough is like, "NOT WORTH IT." He also criticized Republicans for making women's contraception a big issue in an election year. Risking the alienation the tens of millions of women -- including republicans -- that use birth control is not exactly a winning strategy. I actually heard him make both of those arguments, I watch the show from time to time, they toss in quite a few jokes on that show, or maybe its just because it is so early.  I completely agree that trying to pass legislature repealing women's rights that have been in place for half a century is a horribly decision, and I find it horrible people are trying to score political points from this horrible tragedy.I was only saying that the structure of your post made it come across that you were associating extremists with the political party they supported, and I said it was unfair to do so. I'm sure you didn't mean to do that, but that is how I (and apparently others by looking at the thread) took your post. | ||
|
Freddybear
United States126 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:34 Defacer wrote: Scarborough is criticizing the far right nutjobs (like White Supremacists) for fanning the flames, and some of mainstream conservative media for picking up what they find. Scarborough is like, "NOT WORTH IT." He also criticized Republicans for making women's contraception a big issue in an election year. Risking the alienation the tens of millions of women -- including republicans -- that use birth control is not exactly a winning strategy. Scarborough is just repeating the standard deceptive Democrat talking points. | ||
|
lwwkicker
United States140 Posts
| ||
|
JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:37 dAPhREAk wrote: i assume the call duration is to the right on the document. usually is on my cellphone records. they just didnt post the entire document unfortunately. With that in mind, one of the local 911 calls in the neighborhood was pegged at 7:16 as well, and the caller reported scuffling, followed by "HELP!", followed by a gunshot. ![[image loading]](http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-path.jpg) Attached is a map as found on: http://bcclist.com/2012/03/27/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-map/ I do not know the authenticity of the car locations and the X (which I assume is Trayvon Martin's body). I'll try to verify the map when I get home and search around. From what I am reading of this, I don't think Trayvon Martin "ambushed" George Zimmerman. I think George Zimmerman definitely went after Trayvon Martin. I don't know who initiated the fight. However, I think that because George Zimmerman did follow Trayvon, and he definite confronted Trayvon, he should be arrested for the killing. It may not be a murder, but it definitely should be considered a manslaughter. | ||
|
Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:41 Saryph wrote: I actually heard him make both of those arguments, I watch the show from time to time, they toss in quite a few jokes on that show, or maybe its just because it is so early. I completely agree that trying to pass legislature repealing women's rights that have been in place for half a century is a horribly decision, and I find it horrible people are trying to score political points from this horrible tragedy.I was only saying that the structure of your post made it come across that you were associating extremists with the political party they supported, and I said it was unfair to do so. I'm sure you didn't mean to do that, but that is how I (and apparently others by looking at the thread) took your post. All political parties are guilty by association. As a slightly left-leaning middle of the road guy, nothing infuriates me more than being associated with numbskulls like Michael Moore (or in this case, Spike Lee). Of course not all Republicans are racist nuts. All the more reason to denounce them when they crawl out of the woodwork. | ||
|
Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:47 JinDesu wrote: Attached is a map as found on: http://bcclist.com/2012/03/27/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-map/ I do not know the authenticity of the car locations and the X (which I assume is Trayvon Martin's body). I'll try to verify the map when I get home and search around. If I took a defined footpath in what seems to be public green space in order to avoid a guy following me in a car, and all of a sudden that dude appeared ahead of me, that would probably freak me out. | ||
|
JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On March 31 2012 06:51 Defacer wrote: If I took a defined footpath in what seems to be public green space in order to avoid a guy following me in a car, and all of a sudden that dude appeared ahead of me, that would probably freak me out. Sorry - please disregard the arrows. Only consider the location of the car and the body - the arrows are defining a possible walking path but are not (and probably cannot) be confirmed. I'm not sure about the location of the car, but it looks like the location of the body is accurate. With the body at that location, and the street is not so near, Zimmerman saying he was attacked unaware from behind by Trayvon seems very odd. He must have confronted Trayvon. So it comes down to what happened during the confrontation - did Zimmerman attack Trayvon first? Did Trayvon attack Zimmerman first? | ||
| ||
