Ok, i've heard and read so much about this (mostly on Phil Defranco and here) I feel like should comment here, that's my take on the issue, subjective opinion ofcourse, but take it as it is: 1. Zimmerman murdered an innocent boy, because he's probably crazy and racist and a bunch of other things 2. He is a son of a judge and is obviously aided by his connections in law enforcement etc. 3. Most of the Internet started to do the following things: A) Depict the boy as an angel B) Depict Zimmerman as the devil C) Depict the American society as utterly racist and the only thing which matters is skin color, Zimmerman gets away with it cuz he s white and killed a black guy. A) It turns out he's not quite a little angel, may or may not have confronted Z., but either way he was innocent, and even if he was guilty of whatever crime Z thought he was, he shouldnt have died. B) He's crazy, people shouldnt try to rationalize him, he must be insane, unfortunately he comes from an influential family, so he can get away with shit, especially with crimes against people who aren't coming from influential families. C) This whole thing gets so much attention because it's white on black crime. Justice isnt always served, lots of police officers and prosecutors are in the pocket of some big shots or owe favors for them. Imo Zimmerman didnt get away so far because he's white and murdered a black guy, but because of his father, and i'm fairly sure he will be prosecuted 4. Celebrities on twitter igniting people and feeding bullshit info are stupid, people who try to be vigilantes or form mobs and follow twitter bullshit are stupid. 5. How many murderers do you think walk free because of corrupt public officials and law-enforcers? How many innocents are murdered? Tons, yet we dont talk about 99% of those, or not as much anyways, cuz it's not a white man vs a young black boy.
Bottom line : 1. Zimmerman should rot in a cell for the rest of his life 2. lots of people are stupid 3. People really want to hyperbolize social issues and jump on bandwagons instead of thinking stuff through.
I could be wrong about this, but that's really all for me
1. Zimmerman murdered an innocent boy, because he's probably crazy and racist and a bunch of other things 2. He is a son of a judge and is obviously aided by his connections in law enforcement etc. --
Bottom line : 1. Zimmerman should rot in a cell for the rest of his life 2. lots of people are stupid 3. People really want to hyperbolize social issues and jump on bandwagons instead of thinking stuff through.
I could be wrong about this, but that's really all for me
Talk about the pot calling the kettle a hypocrite.
As I understand, scalp wounds typically bleed quite a bit. That is why in a movie a guy with a gash over his eye has blood sheeting over his face-- okay, not quite so dramatic, but point is, head wounds tend to bleed a lot. If you got your head slammed on rough concrete pavement, you would be bleeding from at least a fairly serious abrasion or gash. Heck, you might even have a concussion, but that particular thing would be beside the point. Even if it were treated, a competent paramedic should have bandaged the shit out of his head.
Now, we've seen quite a few versions of the video-- I agree its odd that ABC puts their... logo thing right over his head. So, this is the video linked to FROM THE CITY OF SANFORD'S WEBSITE.
I cranked it up to 480p, and the quality seems pretty good, and you get a lot of angles. I see no head injury.
I still see it at the same point as in the TYT video.
At about 1:24 you even see an officer look at the back of his head. I'll watch the rest of it to see the dark spot is just an aberration.
It's definitely possible to see, but only for a few frames and It's so blurry it's hard to tell what it actually is.
"After nearly a minute of being beaten, George was trying to get his head off the concrete, trying to move with Trayvon on him, in the grass. In doing so, his firearm was shown. Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, 'You're going to die now,' or 'You're going to die tonight' or something to that effect," Robert Zimmerman said.
Both Zimmerman's father and Trayvon's father (via his girlfriend) account's are heresay right now. Zimmerman's father's account is even more problematic since people can argue Zimmerman has had three weeks to craft his version of the events.
I'm really interested in Zimmerman's interviews with the police shortly after the confrontation. This isn't available yet -- is it?
i have not seen zimmerman's interviews, and i highly doubt those will be released before the grand jury investigation. if you are trying to put someone in prison, you tend to hold things close to your chest until you are forced to reveal. if the grand jury refuses to issue an indictment, we may see them then, but i am not even sure that will happen. the defendant's attorney will have access to them if zimmerman is arrested and he may leak them depending on how helpful they are to his case (and whether the judge issues a gag order). i am not sure if there are any local florida laws that protect the interviews.
i was suspended a total of three times as a kid during school so that makes me a criminal? that means i deserve to be shot because i was suspended from school?
On March 31 2012 04:11 Geo.Rion wrote: Ok, i've heard and read so much about this (mostly on Phil Defranco and here) I feel like should comment here, that's my take on the issue, subjective opinion ofcourse, but take it as it is: 1. Zimmerman murdered an innocent boy, because he's probably crazy and racist and a bunch of other things 2. He is a son of a judge and is obviously aided by his connections in law enforcement etc. 3. Most of the Internet started to do the following things: A) Depict the boy as an angel B) Depict Zimmerman as the devil C) Depict the American society as utterly racist and the only thing which matters is skin color, Zimmerman gets away with it cuz he s white and killed a black guy. A) It turns out he's not quite a little angel, may or may not have confronted Z., but either way he was innocent, and even if he was guilty of whatever crime Z thought he was, he shouldnt have died. B) He's crazy, people shouldnt try to rationalize him, he must be insane, unfortunately he comes from an influential family, so he can get away with shit, especially with crimes against people who aren't coming from influential families. C) This whole thing gets so much attention because it's white on black crime. Justice isnt always served, lots of police officers and prosecutors are in the pocket of some big shots or owe favors for them. Imo Zimmerman didnt get away so far because he's white and murdered a black guy, but because of his father, and i'm fairly sure he will be prosecuted 4. Celebrities on twitter igniting people and feeding bullshit info are stupid, people who try to be vigilantes or form mobs and follow twitter bullshit are stupid. 5. How many murderers do you think walk free because of corrupt public officials and law-enforcers? How many innocents are murdered? Tons, yet we dont talk about 99% of those, or not as much anyways, cuz it's not a white man vs a young black boy.
Bottom line : 1. Zimmerman should rot in a cell for the rest of his life 2. lots of people are stupid 3. People really want to hyperbolize social issues and jump on bandwagons instead of thinking stuff through.
I could be wrong about this, but that's really all for me
I watch Phil Defranco too and it's the only "show" I watch on youtube, but I wouldn't really trust anything on his show to be even half true. So many times I have read about a story in the media and then he will cover it on his show and he will get it so wrong and omit so many important details. I don't blame him, he's a busy guy and has a lot of stuff to do, and he's not a journalist. But his show basically consists of skimming over the most popular articles on reddit and other popular blogs and then summarizing it to his viewers and throwing in a couple of jokes. Where does reddit get the stories? From other blogs and media or random people. The reason that so many people are so misinformed is because our media has deteriorated into internet blogs that circulate stories and add sensationalist titles to generate as much clicks and revenue as they can. It's like a game of "telephone" where a legit story starts from the Associated press and a blog copies it and another blog copies the blog and another blog copies the blog of the blog and by the time it gets to the average citizen it's a pile of bullshit.
I think my point is proven quite nicely because if you watched Phil Defranco he said that maybe he rushed to judgement and didn't have all the facts so he tried to correct himself so he showed a photo of the "real" Trayvon throwing up middle fingers. Well that photo was a FAKE. So even the correcting of his bad reporting was also bad reporting (and we wonder why people get the story wrong). Phil gets 1+ million views on his videos which means his show is more watched than ANY show on CNN. CNN is the lowest rated cable news network and their ratings have been plummeting even harder recently. It's a sad state of affairs when a legit company like CNN fails to random internet blogs of people that sit on their couch and don't do any reporting and have no resources of their own and just add sensationalism and gossip and nothing of value.
and to all the people saying that trayvon may have been high because he was found in school with an empty marijuana bag as a daily user of marijuana i can tell u it does not make u crazy,does not make u confrontational, and does not mean u deserved to die because u smoke it regardless of what the government may have told you
On March 31 2012 04:44 Biglarry wrote: i was suspended a total of three times as a kid during school so that makes me a criminal? that means i deserve to be shot because i was suspended from school?
Yes. You deserve to die. LOL.
In all serious, dealing a little pot or getting suspended isn't that extraordinary in the average high school. Some people are trying to make it sound like the Trayvon was Scarface.
Robert Zimmerman Jr., speaks out in defense of brother, George Zimmerman
(CBS) SANFORD, Fla. - The brother of George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer accused of shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, spoke out for the first time, defending his brother and calling him "the neighbor everyone would want to have."
Photos: Trayvon Martin
Robert Zimmerman Jr., spoke to CNN's Piers Morgan Thursday night, insisting his brother defended himself after being attacked by Martin.
"He prevented his firearm from being taken away from him," Robert Zimmerman Jr., told Morgan. He said medical records will prove that his brother was attacked and his nose was broken by Martin before he fatally shot the teen.
Zimmerman said he wanted to correct some of the "mythology" and untruths that have been spread about the night of the shooting.
He said his brother didn't chase anyone and had been on his way to Target, The Miami Herald reports. He thought Trayvon Martin looked suspicious as he walked around the gated community, not because of race, but because of what had been happening in the community. There had recently been several break-ins.
During the exchange with Trayvon, he said his brother reached to get his cell phone. He wanted to call 911 again, but "he never got to make that phone call because he was attacked by Mr. Martin."
"You return force with force when somebody assaults you. George was out of breath, he was barely conscious," Zimmerman said. "There would have been George dead if he had not acted decisively and instantaneously in that moment when he was being disarmed."
Martin's family and legal experts have questioned the Zimmerman's family version after the recent release of surveillance videos from the Sanford police headquarters the night of the incident.
Robert Zimmerman Jr., said his brother was treated at the scene before he was taken to police headquarters and it appears to him that the surveillance tape shows that his brother had injuries. He said he had confidence that the medical records would explain everything, adding that he thought his brother's nose did look swollen to him in the video.
Zimmerman called the shooting a tragedy, but said he felt that some of the responses have not been healthy.
"This is a tragedy. Her son was lost," he said trying to send a message to Martin's mother. "I feel very badly about that and I want, in the end, not for her son's memory to be seen as how we degraded our system and turned it into mob rule and went into a hate speech. Ultimately, we all wish that this was a different situation."
On March 31 2012 04:11 Geo.Rion wrote: Ok, i've heard and read so much about this (mostly on Phil Defranco and here) I feel like should comment here, that's my take on the issue, subjective opinion ofcourse, but take it as it is: 1. Zimmerman murdered an innocent boy, because he's probably crazy and racist and a bunch of other things 2. He is a son of a judge and is obviously aided by his connections in law enforcement etc. 3. Most of the Internet started to do the following things: A) Depict the boy as an angel B) Depict Zimmerman as the devil C) Depict the American society as utterly racist and the only thing which matters is skin color, Zimmerman gets away with it cuz he s white and killed a black guy. A) It turns out he's not quite a little angel, may or may not have confronted Z., but either way he was innocent, and even if he was guilty of whatever crime Z thought he was, he shouldnt have died. B) He's crazy, people shouldnt try to rationalize him, he must be insane, unfortunately he comes from an influential family, so he can get away with shit, especially with crimes against people who aren't coming from influential families. C) This whole thing gets so much attention because it's white on black crime. Justice isnt always served, lots of police officers and prosecutors are in the pocket of some big shots or owe favors for them. Imo Zimmerman didnt get away so far because he's white and murdered a black guy, but because of his father, and i'm fairly sure he will be prosecuted 4. Celebrities on twitter igniting people and feeding bullshit info are stupid, people who try to be vigilantes or form mobs and follow twitter bullshit are stupid. 5. How many murderers do you think walk free because of corrupt public officials and law-enforcers? How many innocents are murdered? Tons, yet we dont talk about 99% of those, or not as much anyways, cuz it's not a white man vs a young black boy.
Bottom line : 1. Zimmerman should rot in a cell for the rest of his life 2. lots of people are stupid 3. People really want to hyperbolize social issues and jump on bandwagons instead of thinking stuff through.
I could be wrong about this, but that's really all for me
Zimmerman is apparently hispanic, and I don't think "tons" of murderers walk free because of corruption. And I'm kind of torn on describing Martin as a boy, he was 17, nearly a man, and certaintly a reasonable person could fear for his/her life if he was doing whatever Zimmerman said he was. Going back to the topic of corruption/criminals going free, I think it is exaggerated in the minds of the public by over exposure in the media and the extreme emotions that are generated by stories of extreme injustice.
With the two stories from the father and the brother - it still doesn't coincide with the thought that George Zimmerman was returning to his car when he was attacked from behind. Trayvon Martin was on the phone a very short time before the cops got there. It still seems very very odd for Trayvon to attack a person while on the phone - or so shortly after getting off the phone.
1. Zimmerman murdered an innocent boy, because he's probably crazy and racist and a bunch of other things 2. He is a son of a judge and is obviously aided by his connections in law enforcement etc. --
Bottom line : 1. Zimmerman should rot in a cell for the rest of his life 2. lots of people are stupid 3. People really want to hyperbolize social issues and jump on bandwagons instead of thinking stuff through.
I could be wrong about this, but that's really all for me
Talk about the pot calling the kettle a hypocrite.
It's not hypocracy really, I could be wrong, I waited fairly long to form an opinion, considered multiple sources, arrived at this conclusion, which admittedly might be wrong
yes, Phil Defranco can be wrong, BUT he links all his sources in the description, plus he does a fairly okay job, and he covered this particular story in 3 of his shows, yeah, i get it, still were missinformation left, but we live in a world where it's pretty damn hard to get all the correct infos unless you commit several hours/ days to backtracking and doublechecking. Regardless of the middle finger photos, my opinion is the same
@Geosensation I'm 21 I still feel like a boy sometimes, 17 year old is quite far from being a man in a modern society imo.
On March 31 2012 05:06 JinDesu wrote: With the two stories from the father and the brother - it still doesn't coincide with the thought that George Zimmerman was returning to his car when he was attacked from behind. Trayvon Martin was on the phone a very short time before the cops got there. It still seems very very odd for Trayvon to attack a person while on the phone - or so shortly after getting off the phone.
If Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend, maybe they had a conversation that went sour and made Martin mad? It's obviously speculation, but totally within the realm of possibility. I'd agree with you in finding it odd for Martin to attack someone just after getting off the phone if he had been talking to, say, his best friend from school or some such. But after talking to his GF? It's pretty easy to imagine how he could have been in a shitty mood after such a conversation.
1. Zimmerman murdered an innocent boy, because he's probably crazy and racist and a bunch of other things 2. He is a son of a judge and is obviously aided by his connections in law enforcement etc. --
Bottom line : 1. Zimmerman should rot in a cell for the rest of his life 2. lots of people are stupid 3. People really want to hyperbolize social issues and jump on bandwagons instead of thinking stuff through.
I could be wrong about this, but that's really all for me
Talk about the pot calling the kettle a hypocrite.
It's not hypocracy really, I could be wrong, I waited fairly long to form an opinion, considered multiple sources, arrived at this conclusion, which admittedly might be wrong
@Geosensation I'm 21 I still feel like a boy sometimes, 17 year old is quite far from being a man in a modern society imo.
It's the hyperbole and condescending tone, like "lots of people are stupid." Tone yourself down if you want people to take you more seriously, man.
On March 31 2012 05:28 Saryph wrote: You're saying talking to your girlfriend on the phone can easily lead to you being in such a foul mood you end up murdering random people?
You might want to rethink your relationships with women if this is anywhere close to true for you man.
What is up with the purposeful misinterpretation going on in this thread?
I said that talking on the phone with his girlfriend might have put Martin in a shitty mood. That's all.
I will now say more. Add to that the fact that this fat latino guy from the neighborhood is stalking him and asking him questions, clearly thinking that he's a burglar of some sort, and that might be enough for someone who is hot-headed to punch the fat guy in the face, beat him up, and thus vent his frustration- which is kind of what Martin did, according to Zimmerman's story. Is it plausible? I say yes.
I'd appreciate it if you stop making dumb ad hominem attacks against posters you disagree with and get back on the topic of the shooting of Treyvon Martin case.
1. Zimmerman murdered an innocent boy, because he's probably crazy and racist and a bunch of other things 2. He is a son of a judge and is obviously aided by his connections in law enforcement etc. --
Bottom line : 1. Zimmerman should rot in a cell for the rest of his life 2. lots of people are stupid 3. People really want to hyperbolize social issues and jump on bandwagons instead of thinking stuff through.
I could be wrong about this, but that's really all for me
Talk about the pot calling the kettle a hypocrite.
It's not hypocracy really, I could be wrong, I waited fairly long to form an opinion, considered multiple sources, arrived at this conclusion, which admittedly might be wrong
@Geosensation I'm 21 I still feel like a boy sometimes, 17 year old is quite far from being a man in a modern society imo.
It's the hyperbole and condescending tone, like "lots of people are stupid." Tone yourself down if you want people to take you more seriously, man.
Hmm, i dont feel "lots of people" is a hyperbole, it could be i'm misusing the word, or u are misunderstanding it, but as far as i'm concerned, a fairly high % of people reacting to it at different levels were really biased one way or another and really didnt consider alternative possibilities
Did not expect Joe Scarborough to chime in with this:
Joe Scarborough condemned some conservatives and right-leaning websites for trying to turn Trayvon Martin's death into a political cause on Friday's "Morning Joe."
Martin was unarmed when he was shot dead by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in late February. His death and the local police department's failure to arrest Zimmerman have taken the country by storm. Scarborough has spoken out demanding the shooter's arrest.
On Friday, he excoriated some conservative websites for defending Zimmerman and questioning Martin's innocence. He said that he found their behavior "disgusting."
"Why is it that some on the right are actually taking this up as a cause?" Scarborough asked. "As National Review said almost immediately after it happened, this has nothing to do with gun rights, this has nothing to do with the Second Amendment, this has nothing to do with stand your ground laws, this has nothing to do with the NRA. This has everything to do with a guy that's trying to play security cop, who is unhinged, who chased down and shot a 17-year-old kid armed with Skittles and iced tea.'"
Scarborough warned that conservative sites should follow the National Review and "not take this up as a cause." He took issue with their portrayal of Martin in particular.
He said, "some racist websites, but also sadly some fairly mainstream websites are actually going into Trayvon Martin’s social media pages, be it Twitter or MySpace, and they're trying to find ominous looking pictures while skipping over pictures of him holding up a birthday cake smiling, him fishing with his dad, him standing outside proudly of his home dressed in a tux ready to go to prom."
"This is beneath contempt," Scarborough railed. "These people on the far right are being fools to try to make this a political issue.”
"Some out there are marginalizing themselves, making fools of themselves," he continued. He speculated that they took issue with President Obama's remarks about Martin's death. "I guess in their warped, twisted, distorted, political worldview, that makes this dead 17-year-old boy — who was kept in the morgue for three days before they even notified his parents of his whereabouts — I guess that makes it okay?" he said.
Still, its kinda f-uped that its ok a for a guy to shoot an unarmed person. Sound like some laws that would exist 100 years ago. You should be able to use self defence, but there should be a limit. Also, Zimmerman shoudnt have followed Trayvon, call the police and leave it to the law.
On March 31 2012 05:28 Saryph wrote: You're saying talking to your girlfriend on the phone can easily lead to you being in such a foul mood you end up murdering random people?
You might want to rethink your relationships with women if this is anywhere close to true for you man.
What is up with the purposeful misinterpretation going on in this thread?
I said that talking on the phone with his girlfriend might have put Martin in a shitty mood. That's all.
I will now say more. Add to that the fact that this fat latino guy from the neighborhood is stalking him and asking him questions, clearly thinking that he's a burglar of some sort, and that might be enough for someone who is hot-headed to punch the fat guy in the face, beat him up, and thus vent his frustration- which is kind of what Martin did, according to Zimmerman's story. Is it plausible? I say yes.
I'd appreciate it if you stop making dumb ad hominem attacks against posters you disagree with and get back on the topic of the shooting of Treyvon Martin case.
You said it, not me, and it is definitely no ad hominem. You are in no way contributing to the discussion when you just start throwing out every single 'what-if' you randomly come upon. You saying he got into a fight with his gf on the phone, and that led to the fight and death of the kid is based on nothing at all. In fact, you're accusing witnesses of lying, based on what?
Why not say 'well he could've been picked on by a guy with a shaved head when he was younger, so he saw Zimmerman's shaved head and was enraged!'
They both are equally plausible, and equally unlikely.
Edit: I'd love it if people who were interested in this tragedy based their opinions on the information available. It disgusts me when people make up things at random and try to insert them into the debate. You made something up, something never suggested once by anyone, including all of the very biased people on both sides, and tried to insert it into the discussion, sorry if I am irritated.
EPT
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