EPTIn fact that last time Israel was in a major conflict, the western powers had to figuratively beg them not to push into Egypt and Syria and take their capitols. (It actually might not have been the 'last' conflict... But one of the wars with egypt/syria.
Palestine accepted into UNESCO, US pulls funding - Page 4
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Stay on topic. I cannot put it more clearly then that. Derailments will be met with consequences. ~Nyovne | ||
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IreScath
Canada521 Posts
In fact that last time Israel was in a major conflict, the western powers had to figuratively beg them not to push into Egypt and Syria and take their capitols. (It actually might not have been the 'last' conflict... But one of the wars with egypt/syria. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:11 RageBot wrote: Because... up until 1967, although the land was previously called Palestine (by the othmanians and the British), there were no real Palestinians, or a Palestinian state. The green territory that you see on the second from the left picture, is the territory that was given to the arabs by the UN, and the white to the jews, the jews were happy with what they got, however, the arabs did not, and a day after Israel declared independance, Egypt, Syria, Lebannon and Jordan attacked Israel. And lost. And so, Israel conquered territory from all of them and got to the second from right picture, now, up to this point, there was still no Palestinian pepole or a Palestinian state. In 1967, once again, the arab states planned to attack Israel, however, this time Israel launched a preemptive counterattack, and conquered territory from all of these countries (the lands now known as the gaza strip and the west bank were owned by Egypt and Jordan, respectively), not only that, but Israel also conquered the Sinai peninsula (a territory twice as big as today's Israel), only to give it back to Egypt for a peace agreement. It is pretty much at this point that the "Palestinians" were created as a distinct group, up until than they were just arabs who lived on the territory known as Palestine. Now, this is the size of Israel: http://www.mapsofworld.com/israel/maps/israel-location-map.jpg And if you want to read more about Israel's history, you can do so here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War Now, I don't think that the governmant should keep most of the territory conquered, however, we just can't risk having terrorists getting even closer to our cities. this is really interesting, thanks for the detailed explanation. still have no idea how i missed all these info :/ | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
Nope no bunk there! | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
Western nations see some religious conflict going on. They decide that moving all the people of one religion into their own country and all the people of the other religion into their own country would be a good solution to this problem, and execute a mass migration and social upheaval. The countries end up hating each other and having constant border conflicts. The big difference between the two is that in Israel/Palestine's case only one side has a strong military and nukes, whereas in India/Pakistan's case both do. | ||
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ilovelings
Argentina776 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:17 B00ts wrote: I'd just like to point out... The fact that Israel is backed by the US is not the main reason they have won every war they have been a part of. They have the most highly trained armed forces in the world, the second "most deadliest" martial art in the world (second only to shaolin kung-fu), have mandatory military service(is this still true?.. Might not be anymore), and the terrain heavily favors defending it. In fact that last time Israel was in a major conflict, the western powers had to figuratively beg them not to push into Egypt and Syria and take their capitols. (It actually might not have been the 'last' conflict... But one of the wars with egypt/syria. Totally wrong. Egyptian and Syrian military was a joke at that time. ANYONE could have beaten them. The last time they tried something fishy, they had to retreat after realizing they were heading to a bloodbath. | ||
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Tortious_Tortoise
United States944 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:17 B00ts wrote: I'd just like to point out... The fact that Israel is backed by the US is not the main reason they have won every war they have been a part of. They have the most highly trained armed forces in the world, the second "most deadliest" martial art in the world (second only to shaolin kung-fu), have mandatory military service(is this still true?.. Might not be anymore), and the terrain heavily favors defending it. In fact that last time Israel was in a major conflict, the western powers had to figuratively beg them not to push into Egypt and Syria and take their capitols. (It actually might not have been the 'last' conflict... But one of the wars with egypt/syria. They still have mandatory militairy service afaik. | ||
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buhhy
United States1113 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:16 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: i wont go in the rest of your post cause ... well lets just say i doubt it would lead to anything. but that quote i have to comment on. have you ever considered that there are terrorists cause they lost EVRYTHING they had over the last 60 years just because of some outsiders decisions? and if they could live a good life on their own land maybe there wouldnt be tons of desperate people thats last resolve is terrorism(other then accepting to live in tents where your lucky to get fresh water)? Exactly, people don't choose to be terrorists because they want to be. They are forced into it, by their situations. It's easy to label an abused group as terrorists, but remember, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. | ||
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Nash
151 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:18 Probe1 wrote: Yeah its a total legit idea that a select few wealthy Americans who are also Jewish dictating controlling national policy toward THE UN. And every non-Jew is brainwashed if they agree with it. Nope no bunk there! Are you actually saying this or are you being sarcastic? Tough to know on this forum... | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
Well, maybe "turning a blind eye" is still to nicely said, considering that they are openly fighting against the forces of liberation here. | ||
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dinmsab
Malaysia2246 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:17 konadora wrote: this is really interesting, thanks for the detailed explanation. still have no idea how i missed all these info :/ I follow Singapore TV... come on Kona, the news over there isn't that bad! Anyways, the state of Israel and all it's actions have always been somewhat questionable. You don't take away land and blatantly call the natives terrorist.. thats just so.. wrong. The lands they won in the war is a different story though. | ||
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Tiax;mous
669 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:13 Nash wrote: Because it has already taken that direction and will inevitably continue to do so like always on here where teenagers discuss things that they have been brainwashed with. Indeed, sadly Palestinian media and brainwashing is so powerful in the western countries, especially in US. On November 02 2011 00:54 HackBenjamin wrote: The super abridged version? Israel and Palestine don't like eachother. Israel used to be small, Palestine used to be big. Now it's the opposite. Check out this picture ![[image loading]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pEfVJ93Cwa8/TDjQIyH5mGI/AAAAAAAAGmk/EA9TbmokMRE/s1600/israel-palestine-map.jpg) Make sense? Turkish PM said it a few times now that previous Israel government ( even current one ) was actually about to accept going back to 1967 borders. But after that incident with Turkey, it's just a rat race now and surely they won't accept it anymore. | ||
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IreScath
Canada521 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:19 ilovelings wrote: Totally wrong. Egyptian and Syrian military was a joke at that time. ANYONE could have beaten them. The last time they tried something fishy, they had to retreat after realizing they were heading to a bloodbath. Your logic astounds me good sir. Just because your enemy is terrible, does not mean you cannot be among the best trained armies in the world. Just because anyone could have beaten them, does not mean Israel does not have one of the best trained forces in the world. Ask any knowledgeable person on Israel, or military history if you do not believe me... The Israeli army, while perhaps not too large, is a beast. | ||
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buhhy
United States1113 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:17 B00ts wrote: I'd just like to point out... The fact that Israel is backed by the US is not the main reason they have won every war they have been a part of. They have the most highly trained armed forces in the world, the second "most deadliest" martial art in the world (second only to shaolin kung-fu), have mandatory military service(is this still true?.. Might not be anymore), and the terrain heavily favors defending it. In fact that last time Israel was in a major conflict, the western powers had to figuratively beg them not to push into Egypt and Syria and take their capitols. (It actually might not have been the 'last' conflict... But one of the wars with egypt/syria. In the first war, only miscommunication between the Arab forces prevented them from achieving victory. Later, the US provided cutting edge technology to Israel, which gave it a huge edge over it's enemies. One of the deciding advantages Israel possesses is its airforce, which alone allowed it to win many of its wars. Technology wins wars. An unrivaled airforce is a huge deterrent. It's very demoralizing to fight against something that attacks out of the nowhere without a chance to retaliate. | ||
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AKomrade
United States582 Posts
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On November 02 2011 00:44 konadora wrote: uh, what kind of stupid law is that that forces a government to cut financial ties to a global organisation because of one country? on what basis? The purpose of such a law is to say to the world 'look, we don't want to cut funding, but if you invite Palestine, that's what'll happen'. It's creating an automatic ultimatum to deter the organization from taking actions you don't want. One of the basics of deterrence is to make people believe you'll follow through if they do what you don't want. Creating internal laws that bind policymakers is one of those ways. | ||
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
On November 02 2011 00:54 bonifaceviii wrote: One drawn up by AIPAC. As for Palestine and the UN/UNESCO, it's definitely a moral victory but does very little in terms of resolving anything. Should they have done it? Hell yeah, it's free PR for the Palestinian government and now the US looks like the bad guy. If by free, you mean it cost them $80 mil then yeah. | ||
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RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:11 Deja Thoris wrote: This. Also, the US policies baffle me sometimes (a lot if I'm honest) Catch-22 isn't it? Would the "terrorists" exist if they didn't perceive Israel to be stealing their land? Its a touchy and emotive subject. In South Africa years ago, the ANC were considered terrorists even though they were fighting for their rights as oppressed people. What makes what the Palestinians are doing different? One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. I don't say this out of any disrespect to people who have had losses of those near and dear to them, merely to point out the other side of the story. Yes, they will exist. Or do you think that every other terrorist attack in history was because of Israel? Or things like what happened in Denmark/France after that cartoonist drew Mohammad? They are not Freedom Fighters, they run from the military and aim solely for citizen targets, they are the exact opposits of Freedom Fighters. Not to mention that most of the money that Hamas gets for it's citizens is spent on military weapons and ammunition. | ||
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ZestyPickle
United States104 Posts
Is this a fair situation to Palestine? No, but all of you need to understand just how fucked up the Holy Land, and the rest of the Middle East, is. Its easy to sit outside of it in judge but objectively how nice do you think Israel wants to be when rockets are getting lobbed in their cities or how nice do you think Palestinians want to be when their land keeps on getting encroached on. Its a vicious cycle that personally I believe can only have one victor and damn fucking right the US should pick the one they want to win that expands their interests in the most volatile region in the world. Not to mention this alliance stems back to the USSR and US setting up proxies in every region of the world including the Middle East, you know all those AKs and Soviet tanks? What westerners should do is stop trying to fucking critique from afar because the Middle East culture and situation is alien from us, we cannot help the peace process effectively because we don't understand the situation entirely, hell I be most in the US thought this shit was done when good ole Bill got that Nobel Peace Prize. But as we can see those talks lead to nothing. Unfortunately, the way the Middle east works, one will have to win outright, and Palestine doesn't look too hot so yes, US please keep pumping dollars into Israel and keep supporting them. And people will no doubt say the US shouldn't even be involved, and no morally we shouldn't be, politically it makes all the sense in the world. Accept politics. | ||
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
On November 02 2011 01:17 B00ts wrote: I'd just like to point out... The fact that Israel is backed by the US is not the main reason they have won every war they have been a part of. They have the most highly trained armed forces in the world, the second "most deadliest" martial art in the world (second only to shaolin kung-fu), have mandatory military service(is this still true?.. Might not be anymore), and the terrain heavily favors defending it. In fact that last time Israel was in a major conflict, the western powers had to figuratively beg them not to push into Egypt and Syria and take their capitols. (It actually might not have been the 'last' conflict... But one of the wars with egypt/syria. And the fact that their entire military is backed by the US and all their funding is from the US and all their military development is funded by the US so yeah they only won because they're backed by the US. Nor do they have the most highly trained in the world by any measure, though this depends on what you mean. On November 02 2011 01:32 RageBot wrote: Yes, they will exist. Or do you think that every other terrorist attack in history was because of Israel? Or things like what happened in Denmark/France after that cartoonist drew Mohammad? They are not Freedom Fighters, they run from the military and aim solely for citizen targets, they are the exact opposits of Freedom Fighters. Not to mention that most of the money that Hamas gets for it's citizens is spent on military weapons and ammunition. Stop bending reality, Israel zionists were the first to use suicide bombers against the british when they ruled palestine. There is no "good" and "evil" side here. | ||
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