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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On March 20 2014 01:57 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 00:06 Calanthe wrote:On March 18 2014 23:20 Monsen wrote:On March 18 2014 23:00 Calanthe wrote:On March 18 2014 16:48 aTnClouD wrote:On March 18 2014 08:46 Calanthe wrote:Stop right there! You weren't wrong and you weren't stupid. It's super awesome that you had enough respect for the girls to basically say "Hey, I don't wanna do this with you if you wouldn't do it sober." That implies that you're interested in consent, and being interested in consent is totally fucking awesome and deserves massive respect. Personally, I am all about some enthusiastic consent! If a girl invites you to her place that IS enthusiastic consent. It is as much as it can get. Also being drunk doesn't make you want to do things you wouldn't normally want to do. It gives you freedom from inhibition, which is often an excuse for girls to justify the fact they are sexual creatures as much as men even though they have to constantly hide it due to social stigma. An invitation to her place is not enthusiastic consent for any kind of sexytime. All she's told you there is that she wants you to be in her house. That doesn't imply anything else. It can signify interest, but it doesn't give consent. Enthusiastic consent is more along the lines of, "Hey, do you want to come over and fool around?" then "Hey, would you like to have sex? I'd like to have sex. Fooling around has been fun." It's ongoing, active consent. It's saying "Yes! I absolutely want to do this thing with you! And I want you to have no doubts or questions about whether or not I want to do this thing!" You have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe 1 in a hundred women will be direct like that. Maybe. For the rest it's "do you want a cup of coffee, do you want to come upstairs" etc. If you're going to wait for a girl to jump around you with a huge "fuck me" sign, good luck getting laid. edit: Also women tend to think they're already being obvious when they hand out such "invitations" and can actually be offended if you turn them down because you take it literally. I am very sorry that you're experiencing unhelpful social mores in your country when it comes to this. I have every idea what I'm talking about. I made a decision a long time ago to be very clear in my communication toward men regarding sex in order to avoid any "gray rape" scenarios. In making that decision, I also determined that I'm not interested in dudes who can't or won't be forward and honest when talking about sex. To me, being unable or unwilling to discuss sex is indicative of having poor communication skills or not being very in touch with their sexual selves, which are both characteristics I find highly undesirable. I'm not interested in guessing games and I'm not interested in head games. Men can make that decision too - "I don't want to sleep with or have a relationship with a woman who is not forthcoming about her interests and desires." I suppose it's more rare than the usual bullshit, but 1 in 100 still leaves you with a fuckload of women. "I suppose it's more rare than the usual bullshit, but 1 in 100 still leaves you with a fuckload of women." Please take the time to meditate on the mathematical implications of this statement of yours. Just in case the stereotype about women sucking (hah) at natural sciences is true in your case: + Show Spoiler +Assuming even distribution of gender among the general population that means that one very lucky guy gets to date that open and direct woman, while 99 other men twiddle their thumbs because hey- can't deal with women " having poor communication skills or not being very in touch with their sexual selves" because they are "not interested in guessing games and head games and don't want to sleep with or have a relationship with a woman who is not forthcoming about her interests and desires."
Since that's probably not a desirable scenario for anyone but that one guy, we're back to men having to deal with how the majority of women communicate these matters and I am back to my original point: You have no idea what you're talking about.
There is no point answering somebody trying to protect his/her own ego, fyi.
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On March 19 2014 12:48 Chocolate wrote:
Actual civilized discourse doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with what you want them to agree with.
On a personal note, it looks like I've met a nice girl that really likes me who lives about 90minutes away from where I'm going to university, so that's good. I'm feeling really confident lately, and a lot happier. I don't know why but suddenly I just feel good.
It's the beginning of spring feeling surge. It's pretty nice, eh?
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On March 20 2014 01:57 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 00:06 Calanthe wrote:On March 18 2014 23:20 Monsen wrote:On March 18 2014 23:00 Calanthe wrote:On March 18 2014 16:48 aTnClouD wrote:On March 18 2014 08:46 Calanthe wrote:Stop right there! You weren't wrong and you weren't stupid. It's super awesome that you had enough respect for the girls to basically say "Hey, I don't wanna do this with you if you wouldn't do it sober." That implies that you're interested in consent, and being interested in consent is totally fucking awesome and deserves massive respect. Personally, I am all about some enthusiastic consent! If a girl invites you to her place that IS enthusiastic consent. It is as much as it can get. Also being drunk doesn't make you want to do things you wouldn't normally want to do. It gives you freedom from inhibition, which is often an excuse for girls to justify the fact they are sexual creatures as much as men even though they have to constantly hide it due to social stigma. An invitation to her place is not enthusiastic consent for any kind of sexytime. All she's told you there is that she wants you to be in her house. That doesn't imply anything else. It can signify interest, but it doesn't give consent. Enthusiastic consent is more along the lines of, "Hey, do you want to come over and fool around?" then "Hey, would you like to have sex? I'd like to have sex. Fooling around has been fun." It's ongoing, active consent. It's saying "Yes! I absolutely want to do this thing with you! And I want you to have no doubts or questions about whether or not I want to do this thing!" You have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe 1 in a hundred women will be direct like that. Maybe. For the rest it's "do you want a cup of coffee, do you want to come upstairs" etc. If you're going to wait for a girl to jump around you with a huge "fuck me" sign, good luck getting laid. edit: Also women tend to think they're already being obvious when they hand out such "invitations" and can actually be offended if you turn them down because you take it literally. I am very sorry that you're experiencing unhelpful social mores in your country when it comes to this. I have every idea what I'm talking about. I made a decision a long time ago to be very clear in my communication toward men regarding sex in order to avoid any "gray rape" scenarios. In making that decision, I also determined that I'm not interested in dudes who can't or won't be forward and honest when talking about sex. To me, being unable or unwilling to discuss sex is indicative of having poor communication skills or not being very in touch with their sexual selves, which are both characteristics I find highly undesirable. I'm not interested in guessing games and I'm not interested in head games. Men can make that decision too - "I don't want to sleep with or have a relationship with a woman who is not forthcoming about her interests and desires." I suppose it's more rare than the usual bullshit, but 1 in 100 still leaves you with a fuckload of women. "I suppose it's more rare than the usual bullshit, but 1 in 100 still leaves you with a fuckload of women." Please take the time to meditate on the mathematical implications of this statement of yours. Just in case the stereotype about women sucking (hah) at natural sciences is true in your case: + Show Spoiler +Assuming even distribution of gender among the general population that means that one very lucky guy gets to date that open and direct woman, while 99 other men twiddle their thumbs because hey- can't deal with women " having poor communication skills or not being very in touch with their sexual selves" because they are "not interested in guessing games and head games and don't want to sleep with or have a relationship with a woman who is not forthcoming about her interests and desires."
Since that's probably not a desirable scenario for anyone but that one guy, we're back to men having to deal with how the majority of women communicate these matters and I am back to my original point: You have no idea what you're talking about.
Wow I can see why you dont get laid.
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On March 19 2014 10:11 Yoav wrote:
Can people in the age of the internet really not believe in the existence of rape culture? I thought the internet had conclusively answered a number of questions, and this was one of them.
(And Calvinist total human depravity).
Seriously, yes, there are places of actual civilized discourse, and bravo to TL for banning some of the most egregious offenders, but even here (as this thread makes clear) there is astonishingly widespread sexism and even doubt about enthusiastic consent. (Hint: IRL, this looks like two sober people coming onto each other mutually and helping each other through the necessary steps to actually doing anything.)
Never mind any time an actual thread deals directly with feminism...
This is because if you apply critical thinking to feminism, you can see a lot of it is bs and there are huge double standards that exist. Yet any time these huge double standards are pointed out, the typical feminist response is to cry sexism and/or to insult the male for having a small penis.
Here is a good post that dismantles the rape culture bs:
http://shetterly.blogspot.com/2012/09/seven-problems-with-rape-culture-theory.html
rape is not ok in america, PERIOD.
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cept the example just posted, all events like that, and all prisons.
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So in other words, a small number of incidents, most which are committed by repeat offenders, that are reviled and prosecuted seriously. Yeah like I said the article I posted destroys the whole rape culture thing. How many people on TL think rape is ok? I wager none, yet supposedly there is a rape culture
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Netherlands6191 Posts
On March 20 2014 04:06 fishjie wrote:
So in other words, a small number of incidents, most which are committed by repeat offenders, that are reviled and prosecuted seriously. Yeah like I said the article I posted destroys the whole rape culture thing. How many people on TL think rape is ok? I wager none, yet supposedly there is a rape culture
There is so much grey area around the definition of 'rape' that I would not be surprised if there were a few people who think rape is okay.
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Thinking rape is okay is not all that rape culture is. I thought you would know what it is if you felt so passionately about it. that article doesn't even know what rape culture is making it look stupid with a bunch of rhetoric questions. We live in a rape culture because people are rapists? Men are rapists? Greedy people are rapists? How do we make things better? and the rest of the article is irrelevant quotes making feminists look bad. They must have not noticed that there are songs literally about raping people being sung as bar chants and on the radio all across the country.
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On March 20 2014 03:56 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 10:11 Yoav wrote:
Can people in the age of the internet really not believe in the existence of rape culture? I thought the internet had conclusively answered a number of questions, and this was one of them.
(And Calvinist total human depravity).
Seriously, yes, there are places of actual civilized discourse, and bravo to TL for banning some of the most egregious offenders, but even here (as this thread makes clear) there is astonishingly widespread sexism and even doubt about enthusiastic consent. (Hint: IRL, this looks like two sober people coming onto each other mutually and helping each other through the necessary steps to actually doing anything.)
Never mind any time an actual thread deals directly with feminism... This is because if you apply critical thinking to feminism, you can see a lot of it is bs and there are huge double standards that exist. Yet any time these huge double standards are pointed out, the typical feminist response is to cry sexism and/or to insult the male for having a small penis. Here is a good post that dismantles the rape culture bs: http://shetterly.blogspot.com/2012/09/seven-problems-with-rape-culture-theory.htmlrape is not ok in america, PERIOD.
Certainly there are valid criticisms about the rape culture theory, as there are for any kind of theory. But you won't find intelligent conversations about it on TL. Especially not in this thread, considering some of the people that post here!
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The problem with "rape culture" is that it's an awful name. It's also not very well defined and people interpret it in many ways making the kind of pointless discussion we're having here.
For some they take rape at its most "common" and offensive definition. And for such a person, it will seem ridiculous that another is talking about a culture around that. For others they categorize as rape the whole grey area where there is an interrogation on consent (people having sex under the influence, blackmailing, etc, etc). And to be honest while I don't agree into taking advantage of someone that clearly isn't his/her-self I still think qualifying it as rape isn't a good idea because it creates this whole deaf dialogue.
Really I'd just wish people would use different words in order to be clear on what they are speaking of.
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I'm bad at math and sewing. Where are your gender stereotypes now?
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On March 20 2014 05:03 Calanthe wrote:
I'm bad at math and sewing. Where are your gender stereotypes now?
In the kitchen where they belong.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On March 20 2014 04:52 rezoacken wrote:
The problem with "rape culture" is that it's an awful name. It's also not very well defined and people interpret it in many ways making the kind of pointless discussion we're having here.
For some they take rape at its most "common" and offensive definition. And for such a person, it will seem ridiculous that another is talking about a culture around that. For others they categorize as rape the whole grey area where there is an interrogation on consent (people having sex under the influence, blackmailing, etc, etc). And to be honest while I don't agree into taking advantage of someone that clearly isn't his/her-self I still think qualifying it as rape isn't a good idea because it creates this whole deaf dialogue.
Really I'd just wish people would use different words in order to be clear on what they are speaking of.
Sorry, but do you know the name of that fallacy?
Where you use a word in its most extreme sense to establish how awful it is, and then in its most inclusive sense to apply it to as many people as possible.
I see this so often in online discussions.
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Yes it's called "appeal to extremes".
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On March 20 2014 02:17 WarSame wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 12:48 Chocolate wrote:
Actual civilized discourse doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with what you want them to agree with.
On a personal note, it looks like I've met a nice girl that really likes me who lives about 90minutes away from where I'm going to university, so that's good. I'm feeling really confident lately, and a lot happier. I don't know why but suddenly I just feel good. It's the beginning of spring feeling surge. It's pretty nice, eh?
Feels fucking great. Now if only this girl didn't live so far away from me...
BTW do any of you all remember your prom after parties? Shit's gonna be wild
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Hahah I never went to prom. For my prom and semi-formal I was working and playing baseball.
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On March 20 2014 04:18 ComaDose wrote:Thinking rape is okay is not all that rape culture is. I thought you would know what it is if you felt so passionately about it. that article doesn't even know what rape culture is making it look stupid with a bunch of rhetoric questions. Show nested quote +We live in a rape culture because people are rapists? Men are rapists? Greedy people are rapists? How do we make things better? and the rest of the article is irrelevant quotes making feminists look bad. They must have not noticed that there are songs literally about raping people being sung as bar chants and on the radio all across the country.
What songs are there about raping people are on the radio? These are the kind of sensationalist claims feminists make. Yes there is rap music about having sex with lots of girls at the club, but unless you consider having a one night stand with a girl rape, that's not a song about rape being played all over the radio. There are songs about rape, such as Immortal Technique's dance with the devil, however the song shows how awful rape is. Rape culture is offensive to me because it implies that because I'm a guy I condone raping women and do it myself. Wtf?! Rape is committed by a minority and those people are thrown in jail. Rape is so vilified here that men's entire reputations are ruined by false rape claims because their information is leaked by the media and they are presumed guilty off the bat.
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Went to prom with girl I had a crush on (she had bf that lived far away) while I was dating a different girl who I would come to be with for over 2yrs. Shit was complicated and we didn't do anything after prom. Regret that lol.
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On March 20 2014 06:03 Zooper31 wrote:
Went to prom with girl I had a crush on (she had bf that lived far away) while I was dating a different girl who I would come to be with for over 2yrs. Shit was complicated and we didn't do anything after prom. Regret that lol.
I'm going with my friend's girlfriend's friend (sounds complicated I guess) that I've met once, but I'm just looking forward to the after party in general. All the girls I want to take live too far away or are going with someone else
On March 20 2014 05:57 WarSame wrote:
Hahah I never went to prom. For my prom and semi-formal I was working and playing baseball.
I wasn't going to go either but my parents and friends think that its important that I do.
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On March 20 2014 05:59 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 04:18 ComaDose wrote:Thinking rape is okay is not all that rape culture is. I thought you would know what it is if you felt so passionately about it. that article doesn't even know what rape culture is making it look stupid with a bunch of rhetoric questions. We live in a rape culture because people are rapists? Men are rapists? Greedy people are rapists? How do we make things better? and the rest of the article is irrelevant quotes making feminists look bad. They must have not noticed that there are songs literally about raping people being sung as bar chants and on the radio all across the country. What songs are there about raping people are on the radio? These are the kind of sensationalist claims feminists make. Yes there is rap music about having sex with lots of girls at the club, but unless you consider having a one night stand with a girl rape, that's not a song about rape being played all over the radio. There are songs about rape, such as Immortal Technique's dance with the devil, however the song shows how awful rape is. Rape culture is offensive to me because it implies that because I'm a guy I condone raping women and do it myself. Wtf?! Rape is committed by a minority and those people are thrown in jail. Rape is so vilified here that men's entire reputations are ruined by false rape claims because their information is leaked by the media and they are presumed guilty off the bat.
rapey songs include Blurred Lines, Blame it on the alcohol, Age ain't nothing but a number. And you conveniently ignored what i said about college bar chants. which is a much more obvious example
Rape culture is offensive to me because it implies that because I'm a guy I condone raping women and do it myself.
you've made it abundantly clear you dont know what it means. you should look it up before you keep gussing. as a hint this is wrong.
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