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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On March 19 2014 01:59 aTnClouD wrote:
Rape is not socially acceptable even in Kenya and has never been in any human culture ever, I wonder how some people can believe there's anything close to a rape culture in a western country.
actually right now like %50 of the population lives where its not illegal to rape your wife. Present day institutionalized acceptance of rape.
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Netherlands6175 Posts
On March 19 2014 01:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 00:20 KwarK wrote:
Why can't we just accept the invitation for a cup of coffee and simultaneously be aware of the potential subtext while not assuming that the person has already consented to sex. Then we can respond to further cues such as her removing her clothes or her making you a coffee to reassess the situation. who the fuck drinks coffee at 2 am? no thanks I'm going home to sleep
LOOOOOOL this made me laugh so hard. I always thought it an odd custom to offer coffee at some silly hour in the morning. Unless you do actually have sex after the coffee and have problems staying awake. I would choose tea, personally, or just decline altogether unless I had outright been offered sex and wanted to take it up.
EDIT:
On March 19 2014 01:59 aTnClouD wrote:
Rape is not socially acceptable even in Kenya and has never been in any human culture ever, I wonder how some people can believe there's anything close to a rape culture in a western country.
In Zimbabwe it is pretty socially accepted that you can rape a lesbian 'to cure her'. You aren't allowed to be homosexual or you get thrown in jail. Infact, prison is another 'socially acceptable' place to rape, especially in Zimbabwe.
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On March 19 2014 03:05 dravernor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 01:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On March 19 2014 00:20 KwarK wrote:
Why can't we just accept the invitation for a cup of coffee and simultaneously be aware of the potential subtext while not assuming that the person has already consented to sex. Then we can respond to further cues such as her removing her clothes or her making you a coffee to reassess the situation. who the fuck drinks coffee at 2 am? no thanks I'm going home to sleep LOOOOOOL this made me laugh so hard. I always thought it an odd custom to offer coffee at some silly hour in the morning. Unless you do actually have sex after the coffee and have problems staying awake. I would choose tea, personally, or just decline altogether unless I had outright been offered sex and wanted to take it up. EDIT: Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 01:59 aTnClouD wrote:
Rape is not socially acceptable even in Kenya and has never been in any human culture ever, I wonder how some people can believe there's anything close to a rape culture in a western country. In Zimbabwe it is pretty socially accepted that you can rape a lesbian 'to cure her'. You aren't allowed to be homosexual or you get thrown in jail. Infact, prison is another 'socially acceptable' place to rape, especially in Zimbabwe.
If you want to speak about punishing behaviour we can also say that in several muslim countries it's legal action to rape women in certain circumstances. That doesn't make rape in general socially accepted by either muslims or people in Zimbabwe, as much as imprisoning someone without a reason is not socially acceptable in a western country.
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United States41984 Posts
On March 19 2014 01:59 aTnClouD wrote:
Rape is not socially acceptable even in Kenya and has never been in any human culture ever, I wonder how some people can believe there's anything close to a rape culture in a western country.
Or, you know, in US high schools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steubenville_High_School_rape_case
They bragged about it to each other, posted about it on facebook, a dozen people at the time were aware of what was going on and nobody did shit to prevent it and afterwards numerous adults attempted to cover it up. The reason, the people involved thought what was going on was acceptable. And if you think Europe is any better you'd be wrong.
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On March 19 2014 08:55 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 01:59 aTnClouD wrote:
Rape is not socially acceptable even in Kenya and has never been in any human culture ever, I wonder how some people can believe there's anything close to a rape culture in a western country. Or, you know, in US high schools. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steubenville_High_School_rape_caseThey bragged about it to each other, posted about it on facebook, a dozen people at the time were aware of what was going on and nobody did shit to prevent it and afterwards numerous adults attempted to cover it up. The reason, the people involved thought what was going on was acceptable. And if you think Europe is any better you'd be wrong.
That's not a rape culture that's a football culture, where all the losers living in this small hick town have nothing else going on in their lives except high school football, so they defend the reprehensible actions of their players because reliving the glory years is all they have.
nobody else outside of that awful town think what happened was ok.
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Even if it's just for that town, then that town has a rape culture.
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United States41984 Posts
On March 19 2014 09:02 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 08:55 KwarK wrote:On March 19 2014 01:59 aTnClouD wrote:
Rape is not socially acceptable even in Kenya and has never been in any human culture ever, I wonder how some people can believe there's anything close to a rape culture in a western country. Or, you know, in US high schools. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steubenville_High_School_rape_caseThey bragged about it to each other, posted about it on facebook, a dozen people at the time were aware of what was going on and nobody did shit to prevent it and afterwards numerous adults attempted to cover it up. The reason, the people involved thought what was going on was acceptable. And if you think Europe is any better you'd be wrong. That's not a rape culture that's a football culture, where all the losers living in this small hick town have nothing else going on in their lives except high school football, so they defend the reprehensible actions of their players because reliving the glory years is all they have. nobody else outside of that awful town think what happened was ok.
and why did those children grow up thinking that those actions were acceptable in the first place?
Clearly they learned a shitty way of treating girls from somewhere. They genuinely didn't believe what they were doing was wrong, they posted about it on facebook, they put pictures on instagram, something went very wrong in the raising of those boys which makes it a cultural issue.
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Shit like that will come to light, eventually.
But anyways... I downloaded a dating app on my phone that basically matches women close to you, and I went on a couple dates last week! I've been against joining dating websites but this has been a cool change.
Just goes to show that there's all kinds of options to find that someone! Hopefully soon!
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On March 19 2014 09:19 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 09:02 fishjie wrote:On March 19 2014 08:55 KwarK wrote:On March 19 2014 01:59 aTnClouD wrote:
Rape is not socially acceptable even in Kenya and has never been in any human culture ever, I wonder how some people can believe there's anything close to a rape culture in a western country. Or, you know, in US high schools. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steubenville_High_School_rape_caseThey bragged about it to each other, posted about it on facebook, a dozen people at the time were aware of what was going on and nobody did shit to prevent it and afterwards numerous adults attempted to cover it up. The reason, the people involved thought what was going on was acceptable. And if you think Europe is any better you'd be wrong. That's not a rape culture that's a football culture, where all the losers living in this small hick town have nothing else going on in their lives except high school football, so they defend the reprehensible actions of their players because reliving the glory years is all they have. nobody else outside of that awful town think what happened was ok. and why did those children grow up thinking that those actions were acceptable in the first place? Clearly they learned a shitty way of treating girls from somewhere. They genuinely didn't believe what they were doing was wrong, they posted about it on facebook, they put pictures on instagram, something went very wrong in the raising of those boys which makes it a cultural issue.
That's more of a culture that says that football players are above the law and aren't accountable to anybody. Its a culture that glorifies sports above all else. No surprise that they saw nothing wrong with raping a passed out drunk girl. This is the same culture where people in the city got mad when the head football coach of Penn State Joe Paterno got fired after he had ignored warnings about his assistant coach Jerry Sandusky raping little boys. no one thinks raping little boys is ok, but they all love football so much they don't care.
These places are populated with jocks who peaked in high school and have nothing else to offer in life, so they live vicariously through other young football players. These losers and the way they condone rape are rightfully reviled by everyone else in america, because there is no rape culture. Just a lot of rabid football fanatics
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Can people in the age of the internet really not believe in the existence of rape culture? I thought the internet had conclusively answered a number of questions, and this was one of them.
(And Calvinist total human depravity).
Seriously, yes, there are places of actual civilized discourse, and bravo to TL for banning some of the most egregious offenders, but even here (as this thread makes clear) there is astonishingly widespread sexism and even doubt about enthusiastic consent. (Hint: IRL, this looks like two sober people coming onto each other mutually and helping each other through the necessary steps to actually doing anything.)
Never mind any time an actual thread deals directly with feminism...
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Actual civilized discourse doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with what you want them to agree with.
On a personal note, it looks like I've met a nice girl that really likes me who lives about 90minutes away from where I'm going to university, so that's good. I'm feeling really confident lately, and a lot happier. I don't know why but suddenly I just feel good.
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I've gone on a couple of dates with this one girl, but I really feel like she's not all that interested. On one date I did get to kiss her, and she kissed me back, but since then we haven't really seen each other that much, and sometimes it takes her >24 hours to text me back. She claims she's really busy, but I know that she could make time if she actually wanted to.
I'll ask her if she wants to hang out with me and celebrate my birthday today/tomorrow. If she doesn't I'll find out what being drunk is like. It's my 21st birthday, and I know I can get my friends to buy me drinks if I wanted, and I've never been drunk before. But I'd rather go for a walk with a girl and hold her hand or something like that.
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She is not interested. Go out with your friends and enjoy the day instead. Happy birthday 
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On March 19 2014 14:37 jrkirby wrote:
I've gone on a couple of dates with this one girl, but I really feel like she's not all that interested. On one date I did get to kiss her, and she kissed me back, but since then we haven't really seen each other that much, and sometimes it takes her >24 hours to text me back. She claims she's really busy, but I know that she could make time if she actually wanted to.
I'll ask her if she wants to hang out with me and celebrate my birthday today/tomorrow. If she doesn't I'll find out what being drunk is like. It's my 21st birthday, and I know I can get my friends to buy me drinks if I wanted, and I've never been drunk before. But I'd rather go for a walk with a girl and hold her hand or something like that.
If she liked you she would have answered you in reasonable time. It's better for you to forget about her, in her eyes you are desperate to meet her (which might not be the truth, but that's probably what she thinks) and that's not the place where you want to be.
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if you feel like she isn't interested, she probably isn't.
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On March 19 2014 14:37 jrkirby wrote:
I've gone on a couple of dates with this one girl, but I really feel like she's not all that interested. On one date I did get to kiss her, and she kissed me back, but since then we haven't really seen each other that much, and sometimes it takes her >24 hours to text me back. She claims she's really busy, but I know that she could make time if she actually wanted to.
I'll ask her if she wants to hang out with me and celebrate my birthday today/tomorrow. If she doesn't I'll find out what being drunk is like. It's my 21st birthday, and I know I can get my friends to buy me drinks if I wanted, and I've never been drunk before. But I'd rather go for a walk with a girl and hold her hand or something like that.
forget about her and have fun with you buddys
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On March 19 2014 14:37 jrkirby wrote:
I've gone on a couple of dates with this one girl, but I really feel like she's not all that interested. On one date I did get to kiss her, and she kissed me back, but since then we haven't really seen each other that much, and sometimes it takes her >24 hours to text me back. She claims she's really busy, but I know that she could make time if she actually wanted to.
I'll ask her if she wants to hang out with me and celebrate my birthday today/tomorrow. If she doesn't I'll find out what being drunk is like. It's my 21st birthday, and I know I can get my friends to buy me drinks if I wanted, and I've never been drunk before. But I'd rather go for a walk with a girl and hold her hand or something like that.
First thing's first, Happy Birthday!
Second thing, go get drunk. It should not have taken 21 years for that to happen.....
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On March 19 2014 15:46 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2014 14:37 jrkirby wrote:
I've gone on a couple of dates with this one girl, but I really feel like she's not all that interested. On one date I did get to kiss her, and she kissed me back, but since then we haven't really seen each other that much, and sometimes it takes her >24 hours to text me back. She claims she's really busy, but I know that she could make time if she actually wanted to.
I'll ask her if she wants to hang out with me and celebrate my birthday today/tomorrow. If she doesn't I'll find out what being drunk is like. It's my 21st birthday, and I know I can get my friends to buy me drinks if I wanted, and I've never been drunk before. But I'd rather go for a walk with a girl and hold her hand or something like that. If she liked you she would have answered you in reasonable time. It's better for you to forget about her, in her eyes you are desperate to meet her (which might not be the truth, but that's probably what she thinks) and that's not the place where you want to be.
Meh, not the way I see it. Just because she hasn't answered and doesn't seem interested, doesn't mean that she is. Women are funny like that. I would invite her to your party, and if she comes, just act with confidence and she will notice. You don't even need to go up to her, she will find you, trust me.
Don't be a quitter, what's the worst that can happen? She tells you she isn't interested? Big deal! Besides, girls like the chase, so you had better get used to it.
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Just had this one happen.
The gf wants to have breakfast at the mels diner near my house. I say id rather not but if you want to lets go. I didn't want to go because I used to date some of the waitresses that work there. We arrive and of course two of the girls I used to date are working and one of them gets assigned to my table -_-; the whole time im making my order the waitress is trying to mess with me by putting her hand on my shoulder, rubbing the back of my neck, etc in an effort trying to piss my off gf. At the end When im done paying for meal the waitress says she put something in her food and im just like FML. I finally tell my gf this is why I didn't want to eat here even though she insisted on eating here. My gf seems understanding about it but i dunno if a week from no shes going to use his against me or not XD
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On March 19 2014 00:06 Calanthe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 23:20 Monsen wrote:On March 18 2014 23:00 Calanthe wrote:On March 18 2014 16:48 aTnClouD wrote:On March 18 2014 08:46 Calanthe wrote:Stop right there! You weren't wrong and you weren't stupid. It's super awesome that you had enough respect for the girls to basically say "Hey, I don't wanna do this with you if you wouldn't do it sober." That implies that you're interested in consent, and being interested in consent is totally fucking awesome and deserves massive respect. Personally, I am all about some enthusiastic consent! If a girl invites you to her place that IS enthusiastic consent. It is as much as it can get. Also being drunk doesn't make you want to do things you wouldn't normally want to do. It gives you freedom from inhibition, which is often an excuse for girls to justify the fact they are sexual creatures as much as men even though they have to constantly hide it due to social stigma. An invitation to her place is not enthusiastic consent for any kind of sexytime. All she's told you there is that she wants you to be in her house. That doesn't imply anything else. It can signify interest, but it doesn't give consent. Enthusiastic consent is more along the lines of, "Hey, do you want to come over and fool around?" then "Hey, would you like to have sex? I'd like to have sex. Fooling around has been fun." It's ongoing, active consent. It's saying "Yes! I absolutely want to do this thing with you! And I want you to have no doubts or questions about whether or not I want to do this thing!" You have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe 1 in a hundred women will be direct like that. Maybe. For the rest it's "do you want a cup of coffee, do you want to come upstairs" etc. If you're going to wait for a girl to jump around you with a huge "fuck me" sign, good luck getting laid. edit: Also women tend to think they're already being obvious when they hand out such "invitations" and can actually be offended if you turn them down because you take it literally. I am very sorry that you're experiencing unhelpful social mores in your country when it comes to this. I have every idea what I'm talking about. I made a decision a long time ago to be very clear in my communication toward men regarding sex in order to avoid any "gray rape" scenarios. In making that decision, I also determined that I'm not interested in dudes who can't or won't be forward and honest when talking about sex. To me, being unable or unwilling to discuss sex is indicative of having poor communication skills or not being very in touch with their sexual selves, which are both characteristics I find highly undesirable. I'm not interested in guessing games and I'm not interested in head games. Men can make that decision too - "I don't want to sleep with or have a relationship with a woman who is not forthcoming about her interests and desires." I suppose it's more rare than the usual bullshit, but 1 in 100 still leaves you with a fuckload of women.
"I suppose it's more rare than the usual bullshit, but 1 in 100 still leaves you with a fuckload of women."
Please take the time to meditate on the mathematical implications of this statement of yours.
Just in case the stereotype about women sucking (hah) at natural sciences is true in your case:
+ Show Spoiler +Assuming even distribution of gender among the general population that means that one very lucky guy gets to date that open and direct woman, while 99 other men twiddle their thumbs because hey- can't deal with women " having poor communication skills or not being very in touch with their sexual selves" because they are "not interested in guessing games and head games and don't want to sleep with or have a relationship with a woman who is not forthcoming about her interests and desires."
Since that's probably not a desirable scenario for anyone but that one guy, we're back to men having to deal with how the majority of women communicate these matters and I am back to my original point: You have no idea what you're talking about.
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EPT
