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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on. Posts of the following nature are banned: 1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post. 2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no. 3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture. 4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments. Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. | ||
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KaiserKieran
United States615 Posts
Hell I didn't hook up with a few girls cause I was sober and they weren't even though they were coming really strong into me. Felt like such an idiot the next day because everyone told me and then I realized that I was wrong. Fuck I was so stupid. They were all really pretty too. | ||
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Calanthe
United States147 Posts
You weren't wrong and you weren't stupid. It's super awesome that you had enough respect for the girls to basically say "Hey, I don't wanna do this with you if you wouldn't do it sober." That implies that you're interested in consent, and being interested in consent is totally fucking awesome and deserves massive respect. Personally, I am all about some enthusiastic consent! | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
On March 18 2014 08:46 Calanthe wrote: Stop right there! You weren't wrong and you weren't stupid. It's super awesome that you had enough respect for the girls to basically say "Hey, I don't wanna do this with you if you wouldn't do it sober." That implies that you're interested in consent, and being interested in consent is totally fucking awesome and deserves massive respect. Personally, I am all about some enthusiastic consent! If a girl invites you to her place that IS enthusiastic consent. It is as much as it can get. Also being drunk doesn't make you want to do things you wouldn't normally want to do. It gives you freedom from inhibition, which is often an excuse for girls to justify the fact they are sexual creatures as much as men even though they have to constantly hide it due to social stigma. | ||
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speakerbox
Canada453 Posts
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
On March 18 2014 05:19 KaiserKieran wrote: Hell I didn't hook up with a few girls cause I was sober and they weren't even though they were coming really strong into me. Felt like such an idiot the next day because everyone told me and then I realized that I was wrong. Fuck I was so stupid. They were all really pretty too. Depends if they were really drunk or only had a bit. Either way, you could always go "Not now you're drunk" and just have a fun evening with her and friends and take her number for a proper date at a later time. | ||
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cythaze
830 Posts
works for some people but i´d rather not take the risk | ||
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Snotling
Germany885 Posts
On March 18 2014 16:48 aTnClouD wrote: If a girl invites you to her place that IS enthusiastic consent. It is as much as it can get. Also being drunk doesn't make you want to do things you wouldn't normally want to do. It gives you freedom from inhibition, which is often an excuse for girls to justify the fact they are sexual creatures as much as men even though they have to constantly hide it due to social stigma. Yes, because nobody has ever done something while drunk that he/she later regretted^^ Women in bad situation will have sex with someone just to avoid beeing alone, especially under the influence of alcohol. If your argument is right, and the girl wants to have sex with him anyways, he can wait and find an opportunity were she won't feel like he has taken advantage of her (That makes it possible to have sex with the same girl more than one, isnt that awesome^^ ) | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On March 18 2014 08:46 Calanthe wrote: Stop right there! You weren't wrong and you weren't stupid. It's super awesome that you had enough respect for the girls to basically say "Hey, I don't wanna do this with you if you wouldn't do it sober." That implies that you're interested in consent, and being interested in consent is totally fucking awesome and deserves massive respect. Personally, I am all about some enthusiastic consent! I hope this is a satirical post for your own sake. Either that or you're a girl. No man is actually interested in mutual consent, it goes against his nature. On March 18 2014 05:19 KaiserKieran wrote: Cloud you have helped me more than once on relationship issues and for that I thank you; however, I think that choosing not to have sex with a girl immediately after a break up is right. She is emotionally compromised and I do think it is taking advantage of her even though it is consensual. That's how I view the subject but I could very well be wrong. I'm young and inexperienced in these matters but starting a relationship after hooking up usually doesn't last. If you are looking for a quick hook up then I guess it's ok but if you think of her as a good friend and wanting someone to date then what he did was right. Hell I didn't hook up with a few girls cause I was sober and they weren't even though they were coming really strong into me. Felt like such an idiot the next day because everyone told me and then I realized that I was wrong. Fuck I was so stupid. They were all really pretty too. It's not consent if she is emotionally "compromised"? In that case every man is a rapist... Do you even realize how condescending that sounds toward actual females? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
On March 18 2014 19:33 Shauni wrote: I hope this is a satirical post for your own sake. Either that or you're a girl. No man is actually interested in mutual consent, it goes against his nature. It's not consent if she is emotionally unstable? In that case every man is a rapist... classic shauni | ||
dravernor
Netherlands6192 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
No man is actually interested in mutual consent, it goes against his nature. Do you even realize how condescending that sounds toward actual females? Irony, surely... | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
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Calanthe
United States147 Posts
His post does bring up some fun discussion points, though. 1. "No man is interested in mutual consent..." Hello, dear reader. Do you self-identify as male? Are you interested in not raping anyone? Are you also interested in not having anything put inside your body without your say-so? Awesome! You are a man who is interested in mutual consent. (Personally, I know at least three male TL members and several more outside of TL who are interested in mutual consent!) 1a. "...it goes against his nature." Ugh. What? So do forks, airplanes, processing cotton, antibiotics, modern medicine, and the concept of a justice system, by that logic. Welcome to the new age~~~ 2. "It's not consent if she's not emotionally compromised?" This one is posed in the form of a surprised question. Yes, an emotionally compromised person can totally give consent, but is that how you really wanna have sex with someone for the first time? What I take away from this is that Shauni is predatory at best. Consent is not defined as "the absence of no." Let's back up a little bit and talk about consent. What is consent? Consent means that both people in a sexual encounter must agree to it, and either person may decide at any time that they no longer consent and want to stop the activity. + Show Spoiler + Consenting to one behavior does not obligate you to consent to any other behaviors. Consenting on one occasion also does not obligate you to consent on any other occasion. Consenting means only that at this particular time, you would like to engage in this particular sexual behavior. Every act requires consent. Even if you have been kissing, that does not mean you cannot say "no" to anything further. How do you determine consent? To determine if someone is giving consent, you must be able to answer two questions: Does the person want to give consent? Is the person capable of giving consent? The easiest way to determine if a person wants to give consent is simply to ask. This eliminates the uncertainty of guessing and trying to interpret signals. Someone putting his or her hand on your hand might be a way of indicating that she or he likes what you're doing or a way of indicating that she or he would like you to stop. The only way to be sure is to ask. A person may also give consent non-verbally by actively engaging in the sexual act. Clearly, this implied consent is more difficult to gauge, and if your partner seems to become more hesitant or uncomfortable, you should stop. Reassure your partner that you don't want to do anything she or he doesn't also want to do, and ask him or her what's wrong. More information on consent can be found here. Above information was plucked from this website. 3. "In that case every man is a rapist..." Not every man only has sex with women who are emotionally compromised. Having sex with someone who is emotionally compromised (ugh what does that even mean! People have feelings ffs!) doesn't make you a rapist. If you ignore "no," "I don't want to," "please stop," or other nonverbal cues, like maybe the girl being passed out drunk and unresponsive (again, a lack of a "no" isn't a "yes"), then you might be a rapist. Furthermore, just because you do it, doesn't mean everyone else does it. Tellingly, that happens to be a hallmark of repeat rapists - thinking that everyone does it. Let me repeat that: Repeat rapists think that their behavior is normal and that everyone does it sometimes. Read more about repeat rapists here. 4. "Do you even realize how condescending that sounds toward actual females?" "that" being "women assuming that every dude is a rapist". It's not a far stretch for women to worry that any given man they encounter is a rapist, and it's not condescending to acknowledge that. There's no convenient way to tell. There's no QR code to scan to tell if this guy respects a refusal. You don't know if a guy's going to assault you until he starts, you know, assaulting you. There's a really good post called Schrodinger's Rapist on this very thing that any interested and unfamiliar parties should check out. (It's been noted that men tend to get very upset when Schrodinger's Rapist is brought up. There is a huge, huge difference between "I think every man is a rapist" and "I cannot tell from looking at a man whether or not he is a rapist." A lot of dudes get super offended because they think that the Schrodinger's Rapist post is saying the former when it's really saying the latter.) | ||
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Calanthe
United States147 Posts
On March 18 2014 16:48 aTnClouD wrote: If a girl invites you to her place that IS enthusiastic consent. It is as much as it can get. Also being drunk doesn't make you want to do things you wouldn't normally want to do. It gives you freedom from inhibition, which is often an excuse for girls to justify the fact they are sexual creatures as much as men even though they have to constantly hide it due to social stigma. An invitation to her place is not enthusiastic consent for any kind of sexytime. All she's told you there is that she wants you to be in her house. That doesn't imply anything else. It can signify interest, but it doesn't give consent. Enthusiastic consent is more along the lines of, "Hey, do you want to come over and fool around?" then "Hey, would you like to have sex? I'd like to have sex. Fooling around has been fun." It's ongoing, active consent. It's saying "Yes! I absolutely want to do this thing with you! And I want you to have no doubts or questions about whether or not I want to do this thing!" | ||
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levelping
Singapore759 Posts
On March 18 2014 16:54 speakerbox wrote: Just broke up with girlfriend of 2.5 years. Too much uncertainty and distance. it sucks, but at least you've done the hardest part | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On March 18 2014 23:00 Calanthe wrote: An invitation to her place is not enthusiastic consent for any kind of sexytime. All she's told you there is that she wants you to be in her house. That doesn't imply anything else. It can signify interest, but it doesn't give consent. Enthusiastic consent is more along the lines of, "Hey, do you want to come over and fool around?" then "Hey, would you like to have sex? I'd like to have sex. Fooling around has been fun." It's ongoing, active consent. It's saying "Yes! I absolutely want to do this thing with you! And I want you to have no doubts or questions about whether or not I want to do this thing!" I dunno about girls, but if a guy invites me over to his house from a club/bar, on 100% of occasions it has meant "I want to have sex with you". So it certainly implies that. Not saying it's the same as consent by any means, but yeah. Further, if said dude continued with ""Hey, would you like to have sex? I'd like to have sex. Fooling around has been fun."" I'd at the very least be looking at him pretty strangely. | ||
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
On March 18 2014 23:00 Calanthe wrote: An invitation to her place is not enthusiastic consent for any kind of sexytime. All she's told you there is that she wants you to be in her house. That doesn't imply anything else. It can signify interest, but it doesn't give consent. Enthusiastic consent is more along the lines of, "Hey, do you want to come over and fool around?" then "Hey, would you like to have sex? I'd like to have sex. Fooling around has been fun." It's ongoing, active consent. It's saying "Yes! I absolutely want to do this thing with you! And I want you to have no doubts or questions about whether or not I want to do this thing!" You have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe 1 in a hundred women will be direct like that. Maybe. For the rest it's "do you want a cup of coffee, do you want to come upstairs" etc. If you're going to wait for a girl to jump around you with a huge "fuck me" sign, good luck getting laid. edit: Also women tend to think they're already being obvious when they hand out such "invitations" and can actually be offended if you turn them down because you take it literally. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Man I just love Shauni :D A man among men. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
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Calanthe
United States147 Posts
On March 18 2014 23:20 Monsen wrote: You have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe 1 in a hundred women will be direct like that. Maybe. For the rest it's "do you want a cup of coffee, do you want to come upstairs" etc. If you're going to wait for a girl to jump around you with a huge "fuck me" sign, good luck getting laid. edit: Also women tend to think they're already being obvious when they hand out such "invitations" and can actually be offended if you turn them down because you take it literally. I am very sorry that you're experiencing unhelpful social mores in your country when it comes to this. I have every idea what I'm talking about. I made a decision a long time ago to be very clear in my communication toward men regarding sex in order to avoid any "gray rape" scenarios. In making that decision, I also determined that I'm not interested in dudes who can't or won't be forward and honest when talking about sex. To me, being unable or unwilling to discuss sex is indicative of having poor communication skills or not being very in touch with their sexual selves, which are both characteristics I find highly undesirable. I'm not interested in guessing games and I'm not interested in head games. Men can make that decision too - "I don't want to sleep with or have a relationship with a woman who is not forthcoming about her interests and desires." I suppose it's more rare than the usual bullshit, but 1 in 100 still leaves you with a fuckload of women. | ||
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