On December 11 2010 08:12 Tralan wrote: Maybe it is because there isnt enough pressure on the artists anymore but the best hip hope and rap artists are just much better than the best in metal which just seems to be an old genre which hasnt really had any evolution since the 90's.
How can you say that? All rap and hip hop music is a pure joke to make compared to metal. If you say that metal hasn't evolved since the 90's, then you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Electronic sounds with computer modified voices isn't hard to do, it's the effect it gives as a result where the people likes it (the beat) because they don't know what real musical talent is and that's just what their simple mind like, I'm ok with but there's no reason for them to talk negatively about metal. In metal, everything take skills, from the harsh vocals, to the cleans, then to the guitar, bass and drums. There's also a lot of additions from different bands. For example the keyboard, also the folk metal bands which add a lot of folklore influences to their music. If that's not evolution, then I don't know what it is. And recently, a lot of metal bands have instrumentals, with acoustic guitars, flutes, etc... They are trying to show their musical talent in playing but also composing, which is really important if you want to have something unique.
Obviously, that's my opinion but no one can deny that metal music take an enormous amount of skills compared to rap, it's not even close. If you don't agree, then you have to listen to more metal that is not mainstream.
Touching some strings while hitting drums and pressing keys isn't hard to do. Seriously, what is wrong with you? You literally say how easy rap is to make and that only idiots like it, and then proceed to say that there's no reason for them to talk negatively about metal. Yeah, it's obviously your opinion, and it's just as obvious that you're incredibly ignorant and that nobody is ever going to take you seriously on this subject.
Then you know nothing about metal, I understand that rap may take some skills but compared to metal, it's a almost a joke. Continue to bash me with no arguments.
Edit: I wanted to show him that metal music did evolved. You're all saying that I'm an idiot for arguing but damn, if someone says something as ignorant as this on metal, then I have on choice but to answer his judgment. Now it's your turn to prove me that rap did evolved, takes some skills and can be unique.
If you think that metal is so absurdly harder to make than rap, then you know nothing about rap. Sure is easy to throw around baseless statements, isn't it? Your last sentence doesn't even make sense. Are you seriously asking me to do this? Rap is very different from how it was 25 years ago. Rap requires writing lyrics and making beats. There are songs about pretty much any topic out there. Evolution, skill, being unique. Wow. That sure doesn't apply to every single genre in existence.
Then you are saying that I was actually right saying that metal did evolved? I didn't say that lyrics in rap were simple, it's the music that isn't hard to compose. As in hiphop, techno, etc... And yes it's simple to listen to the music and understand and enjoy the simplicity, and it's not in a negative way, and here I'm talking about the music and not lyrics, I agree that the lyrics (especially eminem) can be quite great. I listen to some sometimes but not for the music, it doesn't appeal me at all, it's often too simple and always sounds the same. I didn't want to be negative when I said that simple-minded persons like rap, I'm saying in general it's like this but it's not always in a bad way.
I don't think there is a way to objectify talent or what is more demanding.
For some reason, metalheads like to make it seem like metal is some kind of higher, more demanding type of music than whatever else is out there, and it definitely is not. :/
Music is such a subjective area that I can't relaly take anyone seriously when they say "x is bad". I'm not saying everyone has to turn into a Carson Daly (who claims he likes all music), but if you don't get the music, just say it.
I'm a member of another forum where these guys claim classic rock > R&B/gospel. And it's unquestionably a subtle racial jab. Is it ignorance? Confusion? Fear of a culture not their own? Who knows. The fact is, they don't understand it, so they instead just claim that R&B/gospel doesn't require skill. LOL.
This is why I prefer people talk about specific artists, not genres. At least in those situations people have good, but still subjective, reasons for hating a certain artist.
*And to be clear, I have gone through phases of listening to every kind of music. I've listened to classic rock, hip hop, rap, R&B, gospel, alternative, top40, metal, symphonic metal, and finally country.
I really wish people would give everything a chance, and if not, at least admit they don't understand it. It took me almost 2 years to really "get" country music, and now I like it just like all the other genres. The key is finding artists you like.
On December 11 2010 15:10 mav451 wrote: Music is such a subjective area that I can't relaly take anyone seriously when they say "x is bad". I'm not saying everyone has to turn into a Carson Daly (who claims he likes all music), but if you don't get the music, just say it.
I'm a member of another forum where these guys claim classic rock > R&B/gospel. And it's unquestionably a subtle racial jab. Is it ignorance? Confusion? Fear of a culture not their own? Who knows. The fact is, they don't understand it, so they instead just claim that R&B/gospel doesn't require skill. LOL.
This is why I prefer people talk about specific artists, not genres. At least in those situations people have good, but still subjective, reasons for hating a certain artist.
*And to be clear, I have gone through phases of listening to every kind of music. I've listened to classic rock, hip hop, rap, R&B, gospel, alternative, top40, metal, symphonic metal, and finally country.
I really wish people would give everything a chance, and if not, at least admit they don't understand it. It took me almost 2 years to really "get" country music, and now I like it just like all the other genres. The key is finding artists you like.
what about the music that people debate over whether or not it is even music, have you listened to that? such as merzbox and other crazy noize
On December 11 2010 15:05 FragKrag wrote: I don't think there is a way to objectify talent or what is more demanding.
For some reason, metalheads like to make it seem like metal is some kind of higher, more demanding type of music than whatever else is out there, and it definitely is not. :/
You just need to consider how much time is invested in order to become relevant and then you can claim it isn't more demanding than pop or rap or techno. I listen to it all but I have some sanity not to compare something that can be literally done by a crackhead on a computer to something that requires 10-15 years of playing the instrument. Okay, not a crackhead, but you should be able to get the concept. Lil Weezy is best eva.
On December 11 2010 15:05 FragKrag wrote: I don't think there is a way to objectify talent or what is more demanding.
For some reason, metalheads like to make it seem like metal is some kind of higher, more demanding type of music than whatever else is out there, and it definitely is not. :/
If you are talking about mainstream metal like slipknot and other things like this, then I agree. But if you don't mind harsh vocals, European metal bands actually have amazing musical compositions combined with a lot of genres, that's one of the main reason I think metal is one of the higher demanding type of music, maybe not the highest, but it's probably the most physically demanding to play on live shows. A lot of metal bands are not original and not very talented, I don't deny this, I actually think there's a lot more less-talented bands than very talented ones. But these talented bands are genius to come with such beautiful songs. Metal is also not only about harsh vocals, drums, etc... there's actually a lot of different styles which always comes up with something new to the table in the world of metal music.
yes classical music is pretty much music in its rawest form
fragkrag thats not covering a metal song. hes singing to a backing track. theres not a single person playing an instrument. i do that shit everyday in the shower.
You guys are branching off into different arguments.
One - metal takes more traditional musical skill. Nobody's arguing that. Two - metal takes more skill, therefore it is more enjoyable/better/favorable. Um ok - that's your opinion, fine. What if I like trance/house? All that is done on computers now, and much of it is production and with not so much "live" interaction. Does that mean I can't enjoy it then?
Three - how many metal bands can freestyle lyrically? And I'm not saying speed for the sake of speed, but thinking creatively. Again, what if I place my emphasis more on lyrical/spoken word over traditional musical instruments? Does my opinion matter less b/c I don't favor traditional instruments?
On December 11 2010 15:21 Coagulation wrote: lemme put it this way i have seen sooo many metal bands cover rap songs like snoop dog Doc Dre etc.
and im sure as fuck no one has ever went to a hip hop show and seen a cover of master of puppets or arpeggios from hell.
any competent metal band on earth has the musical skills required to make a rap song. you cant deny this. sorry.
I challenge anyone to name a rapper that can write/play a metal song.
Metal wins. its not elitism its just common fucking sense
would you guys put Vivaldi on the same musical skill level as Pdiddy?? cmon now.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Apparently metal bands think it's worth the time to learn and perform a rap song. The only thing you've proven with your post is metal bands feel the need to imitate music you consider inferior. If it is truly inferior, aren't they just wasting their time? It's just common fucking sense.
That's the kind of thing I should have hinted at I guess
A lot of the rappers can just free style raps off the top of their head just like how many guitarists can improvise off of a scale or two to form a solo.
On December 11 2010 15:21 Coagulation wrote: lemme put it this way i have seen sooo many metal bands cover rap songs like snoop dog Doc Dre etc.
and im sure as fuck no one has ever went to a hip hop show and seen a cover of master of puppets or arpeggios from hell.
any competent metal band on earth has the musical skills required to make a rap song. you cant deny this. sorry.
I challenge anyone to name a rapper that can write/play a metal song.
Metal wins. its not elitism its just common fucking sense
would you guys put Vivaldi on the same musical skill level as Pdiddy?? cmon now.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Apparently metal bands think it's worth the time to learn and perform a rap song. The only thing you've proven with your post is metal bands feel the need to imitate music you consider inferior. If it is truly inferior, aren't they just wasting their time? It's just common fucking sense.
This whole argument of which takes more skill or sounds better or whatever is complete bullshit, on both sides.
You can't say that metal doesn't take skill or musical talent. It takes time to learn an instrument, time to form a group, and dedication to put enough into your music that in the end it's something people want to listen to. But you can't say that rap doesn't take skill either. Sure, there are no guitars or double bass to work on, but you are retarded if you think just anyone can pick up a mic and rap. People who rap skillfully (I'm not denying that there are some who are horrible) have been working on it their entire lives. Writing lyrics and becoming good at it takes a hell of a lot of practice, and so does making the lyrics sound good when you say them.
On December 11 2010 08:12 Tralan wrote: Maybe it is because there isnt enough pressure on the artists anymore but the best hip hope and rap artists are just much better than the best in metal which just seems to be an old genre which hasnt really had any evolution since the 90's.
How can you say that? All rap and hip hop music is a pure joke to make compared to metal. If you say that metal hasn't evolved since the 90's, then you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Electronic sounds with computer modified voices isn't hard to do, it's the effect it gives as a result where the people likes it (the beat) because they don't know what real musical talent is and that's just what their simple mind like, I'm ok with but there's no reason for them to talk negatively about metal. In metal, everything take skills, from the harsh vocals, to the cleans, then to the guitar, bass and drums. There's also a lot of additions from different bands. For example the keyboard, also the folk metal bands which add a lot of folklore influences to their music. If that's not evolution, then I don't know what it is. And recently, a lot of metal bands have instrumentals, with acoustic guitars, flutes, etc... They are trying to show their musical talent in playing but also composing, which is really important if you want to have something unique.
Obviously, that's my opinion but no one can deny that metal music take an enormous amount of skills compared to rap, it's not even close. If you don't agree, then you have to listen to more metal that is not mainstream.
Touching some strings while hitting drums and pressing keys isn't hard to do. Seriously, what is wrong with you? You literally say how easy rap is to make and that only idiots like it, and then proceed to say that there's no reason for them to talk negatively about metal. Yeah, it's obviously your opinion, and it's just as obvious that you're incredibly ignorant and that nobody is ever going to take you seriously on this subject.
Then you know nothing about metal, I understand that rap may take some skills but compared to metal, it's a almost a joke. Continue to bash me with no arguments.
Edit: I wanted to show him that metal music did evolved. You're all saying that I'm an idiot for arguing but damn, if someone says something as ignorant as this on metal, then I have on choice but to answer his judgment. Now it's your turn to prove me that rap did evolved, takes some skills and can be unique.
If you think that metal is so absurdly harder to make than rap, then you know nothing about rap. Sure is easy to throw around baseless statements, isn't it? Your last sentence doesn't even make sense. Are you seriously asking me to do this? Rap is very different from how it was 25 years ago. Rap requires writing lyrics and making beats. There are songs about pretty much any topic out there. Evolution, skill, being unique. Wow. That sure doesn't apply to every single genre in existence.
Then you are saying that I was actually right saying that metal did evolved? I didn't say that lyrics in rap were simple, it's the music that isn't hard to compose. As in hiphop, techno, etc... And yes it's simple to listen to the music and understand and enjoy the simplicity, and it's not in a negative way, and here I'm talking about the music and not lyrics, I agree that the lyrics (especially eminem) can be quite great. I listen to some sometimes but not for the music, it doesn't appeal me at all, it's often too simple and always sounds the same. I didn't want to be negative when I said that simple-minded persons like rap, I'm saying in general it's like this but it's not always in a bad way.
ALL MUSIC IS CONSTANTLY EVOLVING. "All rap and hip hop music is a pure joke to make compared to metal." LYRICS ARE PART OF THE MUSIC. And yes, the beats are hard to make. If you think it's so easy, why don't you just fire up a program and start making money no problem? Ok, so if simple minded people like rap, then it's greasy people with long hair who like metal. Because idiotic stereotypes is how I base my perceptions of people.
EPT
