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On December 11 2010 16:07 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 16:05 koreasilver wrote:On December 11 2010 15:24 Coagulation wrote:
yes classical music is pretty much music in its rawest form
fragkrag thats not covering a metal song.
hes singing to a backing track.
theres not a single person playing an instrument.
i do that shit everyday in the shower. What in the fuck are you talking about. Classical music is one of the farthest things away from raw music. I can't believe anyone could ever think that the most academically rigorous form of music is "raw" in any sense. Jesus Christ. this thread makes me want to kill myself. how about "Purest" form?
Again, how would an intensely academic study that has very rigorous training and intensely developed theory under a very specific eurocentric history be "pure" in any sense? I have a deep love for several composers but to just say that they are "raw" or even "pure" in any sense is really stupid. There is a very distinct tradition and history to it that is very culturally developed.
And even besides this; you would put any metal band on the level of someone like Rachmaninoff? Your comparisons in this thread have been seriously ridiculous, seriously. The main reason I'm picking at you here is because you're a well-known user and the recognizable posters on this forum should really refrain from saying these kind of things.
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On December 11 2010 16:14 Swede wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 16:09 Coagulation wrote:
well im the first to admit technical =/= quality. Then why bring it up? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sure seemed like you were using technicality as a basis for metal being better than rap.
nope. quality of music is 100% a personal preference.
i seen people posting that rap is just as hard to make as metal.. and it seems kinda silly.
koreasilver what genre would you define as purest musicly?
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On December 11 2010 16:19 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 16:14 Swede wrote:On December 11 2010 16:09 Coagulation wrote:
well im the first to admit technical =/= quality. Then why bring it up? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sure seemed like you were using technicality as a basis for metal being better than rap. nope. quality of music is 100% a personal preference.
/endthread
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Why are you even thinking in genres? If you really have to press me then I'm going to have to say any of the various music around the world that have a high degree of improvisation. Jazz ranks pretty up there for me but Jazz has a great deal of rigorous academical study to it as well, but I certainly find it to be more "raw" than a great deal of classical music.
Freestyle rap is pretty high up there for me as well. Lyrical storytelling is one of the most basic forms of music all over the world. Its not hard to find similarities between modern rap and stuff like traditional Korean music.
Trying to look for "purity" when evaluating music is entirely fruitless and more importantly, pointless and useless.
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Because people are getting less intelligent as time goes on...
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On December 11 2010 16:19 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 16:14 Swede wrote:On December 11 2010 16:09 Coagulation wrote:
well im the first to admit technical =/= quality. Then why bring it up? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sure seemed like you were using technicality as a basis for metal being better than rap. nope. quality of music is 100% a personal preference. i seen people posting that rap is just as hard to make as metal.. and it seems kinda silly. koreasilver what genre would you define as purest musicly?
We know that saying that art can be evaluated regardless of personnal preferences since David Hume and his work on aesthetics. I wouldn't use the idea that music is pure or raw, but music can be defined as good or bad with very objective criterias, which have nothing to o with academic strandards.
The question which gives art a value is for most philosophers today its innovative aspect. Art which doesn't bring anything new is basivcally worthless. Britney Spears doesn't bring anyhting new. 50 cent doesn't bring anything new. Lady Gaga doesn't bring anything new. They all write binary tonal crap and they are all three completely backward. And no surprise, they are all three marketing products. Marketed "artist" don't innovate, usually.
Now if you want an example of what would be a huge artist outside classical music, well, take for example John Coltrane. Coltrane opened completely new dimensions to Jazz, and never stopped innovating, changing and creating.
There is maybe a reason why most of today's commercial is completely stuck while Jazz or Classical music have always been evolving dramatically. And if you ask me the question, there are awful classical composers. Take Karl Jenkins or Tan Dun today, they write completely outdated music which is very well suited for old ladies. Don't worth better than Lady Gaga, and they are moved by the same logic: money.
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On December 11 2010 16:06 hoppipolla wrote:
I listen to both rap and metal, what's the point of limiting yourself to particular genres to feel an absurd sense of elitism? Who cares how difficult it is to make but rather how good it sounds to your ears, and why bother trying to convert people to your musical taste when it doesn't affect you whatsoever.
I absolutely agree. Well said.
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Musically taste is one of the most individual things in the world IMO.. you can claim to be a fan of a genre and still hate a band from it even thought someone with 99% of the same likes as you could love it.
I'd hate anyone to scour through my mp3 player. some truly random things on there. From Rap, Jpop, Nu Metal, Thrash Metal, Punk, Blues.. some orchestral stuff (not really classical, but still)
Genre's shift change and evolve and meld.. remember when Fred Durst could claim to almost be king of the world because he was a terrible rapper ontop of metal music?
Or Metallica's S&M album.. how good was that .. wow..
The only genre I give a wide birth is Jazz, because to my ears it sounds like someone trying to play Blues but they don't know how to play it so are making it up on the fly. But I know a bunch of people who love to relax to jazz music. I know a guy who loves Japanese reggae music.. I mean wtf.. but everyone's different.
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Wow, this thread is so 90s.
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Wait the OP in the beginning said that he doesn't get why so many people like hip hop, but literally just said that music is 100% personal preference...
So the OP just made this thread to say that Metal is harder to play then rap.........
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On December 11 2010 13:27 Airbag wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 13:01 agarangu wrote:On December 11 2010 12:41 Tha_Docta wrote:
I think people are downplaying the level of technicality involved in rap. You can be good at rapping, its not just rhyming.
I challenge anyone to write a rap with more polysyllabic interwoven rhymes within words, and with the amount of simile/punchline wittiness as say, Rakim.
There is a reason that, should you ask any rapper who the best ever is, they will say Rakim. But you will never see a Metal band playing with Justin Beiber You're gonna look pretty stupid when Justin Bieber becomes Dream Theaters next drummer
This is how hard it is to sing Hip-hop
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgX-NCNakpo
And this
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
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It's pretty funny seeing people judge hip-hop by it's beats. By doing so you completely miss the point of the genre. Here's my reply to some other guy that said it earlier in the thread:
Assessing hip-hop music by its beats is clearly missing the point and purpose of the genre. The lyrics and voice are 95% of a hip-hop track. The voice is the beat. You may as well criticise the font used by a poet. Maybe go listen to the various instrumental genres derived from or that use a mix of hip-hop, if you want to be a fancy pants an assess track construction.
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Raskit - totally agree. Seems most on TL don't understand the soul of hip-hop or even how it works. It goes back to my first post in this thread - fear/ignorance of the unknown.
I'll post an actual hip-hop video so people can see what it's supposed to sound like:
+ Show Spoiler +
I'd wager the haters have no idea who Mos Def is. *and lol, I know someone will say, "but but he was in Hitchhiker's or Italian Job."
Like I said in the first post in this thread, demonstrate, at the minimum, that you've taken the effort to learn about the genre. Even if that's only one artist, that's a bigger step than most haters have taken.
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On December 10 2010 15:56 Headshot wrote:
Computer generated noises? I've got two words for you.
The Roots.
aka the 90s
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[QUOTE]On December 10 2010 16:00 LaLLsc2 wrote:
I enjoy both...
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hii17sjSwfA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hii17sjSwfA[/url]
and
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnsAWbhsL8Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnsAWbhsL8Q[/url][/QUOTE
YES!!! Good man! Love both Tool and Cudi, one of my favorites songs is bodies like sheep by Perfect circle, which is pretty much Tool.
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I thought this thread was from 2004.
Hip hop is pretty much underground right now, come to New York and you will instantly see a difference in style.Only rappers left are Jay Z, Lil Wayne and Eminem, and that faggot Drake who can't even rhyme.
Personally though, I moved on from Metal. I still love the music though, it's just that there comes a point in your life where you want to explore new genres. Well, I found other (not necessarily better) music which appeals to my current mood.
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Kanye's old stuff use to be really good too but now it's gone mostly to shit...
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On December 12 2010 01:21 mav451 wrote:Raskit - totally agree. Seems most on TL don't understand the soul of hip-hop or even how it works. It goes back to my first post in this thread - fear/ignorance of the unknown. I'll post an actual hip-hop video so people can see what it's supposed to sound like: + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeTnog5RRQo I'd wager the haters have no idea who Mos Def is. *and lol, I know someone will say, "but but he was in Hitchhiker's or Italian Job." Like I said in the first post in this thread, demonstrate, at the minimum, that you've taken the effort to learn about the genre. Even if that's only one artist, that's a bigger step than most haters have taken.
There are no haters. I don't understand this mentality, does it give you extra motivation to think that someone is "hating" on the genre? Rap has some gems, that's beyond the point. Actually everything we discuss here is beyond the point, originally the question was - why does everyone love hip-hop/rap these days. Which is not true to say the least, rap was way bigger 5-10 years ago, if anything people mostly spin pop, senseless autotuned hip-hop (basically degenerated into dance music) and pop-rock.
Some people suggested metal is 'unpopular' because they can't play it at a party, but who would play GZA or Mos Def? Party playlists usually include some mainstream garbage a-la trey songz, lil wayne and lady gaga. It lacks lyrics, something that defines rap. Thus OP is wrong to begin with, it wasn't rap/hip-hop popularity but rather pop music popularity. And they call it pop for a reason (as in pop music is always prevalent by definition).
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EPT
