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On December 11 2010 15:21 Coagulation wrote:
lemme put it this way i have seen sooo many metal bands cover rap songs like snoop dog Doc Dre etc.
and im sure as fuck no one has ever went to a hip hop show and seen a cover of master of puppets or arpeggios from hell.
any competent metal band on earth has the musical skills required to make a rap song. you cant deny this. sorry.
I challenge anyone to name a rapper that can write/play a metal song.
Metal wins.
its not elitism
its just common fucking sense
would you guys put Vivaldi on the same musical skill level as Pdiddy??
cmon now.
Necro can write/play a metal song. I have won your challenge.
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source? ^
im genuinely interested.
btw when i say metal i mean "necrophagist" "children of bodom"
Melodic/harmonic instrumental work + solos
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On December 11 2010 15:38 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 15:33 TheGrimace wrote:On December 11 2010 15:21 Coagulation wrote:
lemme put it this way i have seen sooo many metal bands cover rap songs like snoop dog Doc Dre etc.
and im sure as fuck no one has ever went to a hip hop show and seen a cover of master of puppets or arpeggios from hell.
any competent metal band on earth has the musical skills required to make a rap song. you cant deny this. sorry.
I challenge anyone to name a rapper that can write/play a metal song.
Metal wins.
its not elitism
its just common fucking sense
would you guys put Vivaldi on the same musical skill level as Pdiddy??
cmon now. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Apparently metal bands think it's worth the time to learn and perform a rap song. The only thing you've proven with your post is metal bands feel the need to imitate music you consider inferior. If it is truly inferior, aren't they just wasting their time? It's just common fucking sense. i didnt say its "inferior" at all. jesus christ.
What are you saying then? How do you "win" without being superior? Metal wins vs rap. Wins what exactly?
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Metal wins the "requires more knowledge of musical theory and composition" award.
in response to your ranting about how rap is just as technical as any other music.
well its not.
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On December 11 2010 15:40 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 15:02 Essbee wrote:On December 11 2010 14:52 GolemMadness wrote:On December 11 2010 14:20 Essbee wrote:On December 11 2010 10:35 GolemMadness wrote:On December 11 2010 08:31 Essbee wrote:On December 11 2010 08:12 Tralan wrote:
Maybe it is because there isnt enough pressure on the artists anymore but the best hip hope and rap artists are just much better than the best in metal which just seems to be an old genre which hasnt really had any evolution since the 90's.
How can you say that? All rap and hip hop music is a pure joke to make compared to metal. If you say that metal hasn't evolved since the 90's, then you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Electronic sounds with computer modified voices isn't hard to do, it's the effect it gives as a result where the people likes it (the beat) because they don't know what real musical talent is and that's just what their simple mind like, I'm ok with but there's no reason for them to talk negatively about metal. In metal, everything take skills, from the harsh vocals, to the cleans, then to the guitar, bass and drums. There's also a lot of additions from different bands. For example the keyboard, also the folk metal bands which add a lot of folklore influences to their music. If that's not evolution, then I don't know what it is. And recently, a lot of metal bands have instrumentals, with acoustic guitars, flutes, etc... They are trying to show their musical talent in playing but also composing, which is really important if you want to have something unique. Obviously, that's my opinion but no one can deny that metal music take an enormous amount of skills compared to rap, it's not even close. If you don't agree, then you have to listen to more metal that is not mainstream. Touching some strings while hitting drums and pressing keys isn't hard to do. Seriously, what is wrong with you? You literally say how easy rap is to make and that only idiots like it, and then proceed to say that there's no reason for them to talk negatively about metal. Yeah, it's obviously your opinion, and it's just as obvious that you're incredibly ignorant and that nobody is ever going to take you seriously on this subject. Then you know nothing about metal, I understand that rap may take some skills but compared to metal, it's a almost a joke. Continue to bash me with no arguments. Edit: I wanted to show him that metal music did evolved. You're all saying that I'm an idiot for arguing but damn, if someone says something as ignorant as this on metal, then I have on choice but to answer his judgment. Now it's your turn to prove me that rap did evolved, takes some skills and can be unique. If you think that metal is so absurdly harder to make than rap, then you know nothing about rap. Sure is easy to throw around baseless statements, isn't it? Your last sentence doesn't even make sense. Are you seriously asking me to do this? Rap is very different from how it was 25 years ago. Rap requires writing lyrics and making beats. There are songs about pretty much any topic out there. Evolution, skill, being unique. Wow. That sure doesn't apply to every single genre in existence. Then you are saying that I was actually right saying that metal did evolved? I didn't say that lyrics in rap were simple, it's the music that isn't hard to compose. As in hiphop, techno, etc... And yes it's simple to listen to the music and understand and enjoy the simplicity, and it's not in a negative way, and here I'm talking about the music and not lyrics, I agree that the lyrics (especially eminem) can be quite great. I listen to some sometimes but not for the music, it doesn't appeal me at all, it's often too simple and always sounds the same. I didn't want to be negative when I said that simple-minded persons like rap, I'm saying in general it's like this but it's not always in a bad way. ALL MUSIC IS CONSTANTLY EVOLVING. "All rap and hip hop music is a pure joke to make compared to metal." LYRICS ARE PART OF THE MUSIC. And yes, the beats are hard to make. If you think it's so easy, why don't you just fire up a program and start making money no problem? Ok, so if simple minded people like rap, then it's greasy people with long hair who like metal. Because idiotic stereotypes is how I base my perceptions of people.
It is actually a joke to compare rap to metal, the lyrics are comparable, but that's all. The instrumentals (if you prefer) is by far more demanding in the metal world. I don't like rap and I don't have money problems so I won't start to make some rap beats. Learning an instrument is also harder than learning how to make beats on a computer. If you were able to read all the posts here between mine and yours then you would have some other explanations.
For the "simple-minded", there were no negative thoughts with this by the way, so stop being so mad at it. And I also said that it was in general, but there are always exceptions.
Annnnd for your information, I don't have long greasy hair, I actually don't look like someone who listen to metal at all.
Edit: mistakes
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On December 11 2010 15:49 Coagulation wrote:
Metal wins the "requires more knowledge of musical theory and composition" award.
in response to your ranting about how rap is just as technical as any other music.
well its not.
When did I say rap was as technical as any other music?
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-edit
you didnt it was someone else
sorry i seen your name there for some reason.
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On December 11 2010 15:59 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 14:52 GolemMadness wrote:On December 11 2010 14:20 Essbee wrote:On December 11 2010 10:35 GolemMadness wrote:On December 11 2010 08:31 Essbee wrote:On December 11 2010 08:12 Tralan wrote:
Maybe it is because there isnt enough pressure on the artists anymore but the best hip hope and rap artists are just much better than the best in metal which just seems to be an old genre which hasnt really had any evolution since the 90's.
How can you say that? All rap and hip hop music is a pure joke to make compared to metal. If you say that metal hasn't evolved since the 90's, then you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Electronic sounds with computer modified voices isn't hard to do, it's the effect it gives as a result where the people likes it (the beat) because they don't know what real musical talent is and that's just what their simple mind like, I'm ok with but there's no reason for them to talk negatively about metal. In metal, everything take skills, from the harsh vocals, to the cleans, then to the guitar, bass and drums. There's also a lot of additions from different bands. For example the keyboard, also the folk metal bands which add a lot of folklore influences to their music. If that's not evolution, then I don't know what it is. And recently, a lot of metal bands have instrumentals, with acoustic guitars, flutes, etc... They are trying to show their musical talent in playing but also composing, which is really important if you want to have something unique. Obviously, that's my opinion but no one can deny that metal music take an enormous amount of skills compared to rap, it's not even close. If you don't agree, then you have to listen to more metal that is not mainstream. Touching some strings while hitting drums and pressing keys isn't hard to do. Seriously, what is wrong with you? You literally say how easy rap is to make and that only idiots like it, and then proceed to say that there's no reason for them to talk negatively about metal. Yeah, it's obviously your opinion, and it's just as obvious that you're incredibly ignorant and that nobody is ever going to take you seriously on this subject. Then you know nothing about metal, I understand that rap may take some skills but compared to metal, it's a almost a joke. Continue to bash me with no arguments. Edit: I wanted to show him that metal music did evolved. You're all saying that I'm an idiot for arguing but damn, if someone says something as ignorant as this on metal, then I have on choice but to answer his judgment. Now it's your turn to prove me that rap did evolved, takes some skills and can be unique. If you think that metal is so absurdly harder to make than rap, then you know nothing about rap. Sure is easy to throw around baseless statements, isn't it? Your last sentence doesn't even make sense. Are you seriously asking me to do this? Rap is very different from how it was 25 years ago. Rap requires writing lyrics and making beats. There are songs about pretty much any topic out there. Evolution, skill, being unique. Wow. That sure doesn't apply to every single genre in existence.
So my username is GolemMadness?
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I sincerely hope some of you get testicular cancer for some of the idiotic things I've had the displeasure of reading in this thread.
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This thread actually might be worse than that religion thread that got closed recently.
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if you can't appreciate both metal and rap then you should broaden your artistic taste, as your taste is bias to one genre then you cant judge which music is good or not. you should also appreciate music by how good it is, and not other factors. thats my opinion anyway.
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On December 11 2010 15:24 Coagulation wrote:
yes classical music is pretty much music in its rawest form
fragkrag thats not covering a metal song.
hes singing to a backing track.
theres not a single person playing an instrument.
i do that shit everyday in the shower.
What in the fuck are you talking about. Classical music is one of the farthest things away from raw music. I can't believe anyone could ever think that the most academically rigorous form of music is "raw" in any sense. Jesus Christ.
this thread makes me want to kill myself.
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I listen to both rap and metal, what's the point of limiting yourself to particular genres to feel an absurd sense of elitism? Who cares how difficult it is to make but rather how good it sounds to your ears, and why bother trying to convert people to your musical taste when it doesn't affect you whatsoever.
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10387 Posts
On December 11 2010 15:21 Coagulation wrote:
lemme put it this way i have seen sooo many metal bands cover rap songs like snoop dog Doc Dre etc.
and im sure as fuck no one has ever went to a hip hop show and seen a cover of master of puppets or arpeggios from hell.
any competent metal band on earth has the musical skills required to make a rap song. you cant deny this. sorry.
I challenge anyone to name a rapper that can write/play a metal song.
Metal wins.
its not elitism
its just common fucking sense
would you guys put Vivaldi on the same musical skill level as Pdiddy??
cmon now.
well thats not fair.. doing a cover of a rap song is one thing, but making up those insanely clever rhymes and wordplay you see in good rap songs is something I doubt most metal bands can do.
also I think vivaldi is overrated  just saying, Mahler is betterrrrrr (not a fair comparison btw)
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On December 11 2010 16:05 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 15:24 Coagulation wrote:
yes classical music is pretty much music in its rawest form
fragkrag thats not covering a metal song.
hes singing to a backing track.
theres not a single person playing an instrument.
i do that shit everyday in the shower. What in the fuck are you talking about. Classical music is one of the farthest things away from raw music. I can't believe anyone could ever think that the most academically rigorous form of music is "raw" in any sense. Jesus Christ. this thread makes me want to kill myself.
how about "Purest" form?
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Metal wins the "requires more knowledge of musical theory and composition" award.
I wouldn't go that far. How about "some metal wins the "requires more knowledge of musical theory and composition" award. Making a statement like that covering the entire genre is just silly. You would have to ignore the large majority of metal bands which all consist of double-kick/blast beats and low, repetitive guitar riffs. That sort of metal requires next to no musical knowledge.
Besides, requiring more knowledge/skill isn't testament to ANY genre's actual quality. It's only testament to it requiring more knowledge/skill. There are a gazillion examples of bands/artists whose music is rather simplistic, and yet many of them create some of the most moving/thought-provoking pieces of music to be found.
And even then, technical skill/knowledge etc definitely doesn't equate to good feel/taste. I admit, a lot of metal drummers are quite technically skilled, but most of them have terrible feel.
Lastly, judging a genre which revolves around lyrics (rap) on technical skill is hardly fair. The music in rap is simply the canvas for the artist to pain on. The lyrics are the picture.
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On December 11 2010 15:05 FragKrag wrote:
I don't think there is a way to objectify talent or what is more demanding.
For some reason, metalheads like to make it seem like metal is some kind of higher, more demanding type of music than whatever else is out there, and it definitely is not. :/
Indeed. see: Venom
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well im the first to admit technical =/= quality.
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On December 11 2010 16:07 Swede wrote:Show nested quote +Metal wins the "requires more knowledge of musical theory and composition" award. I wouldn't go that far. How about " some metal wins the "requires more knowledge of musical theory and composition" award. Making a statement like that covering the entire genre is just silly. You would have to ignore the large majority of metal bands which all consist of double-kick/blast beats and low, repetitive guitar riffs. That sort of metal requires next to no musical knowledge. Besides, requiring more knowledge/skill isn't testament to ANY genre's actual quality. It's only testament to it requiring more knowledge/skill. There are a gazillion examples of bands/artists whose music is rather simplistic, and yet many of them create some of the most moving/thought-provoking pieces of music to be found. And even then, technical skill/knowledge etc definitely doesn't equate to good feel/taste. I admit, a lot of metal drummers are quite technically skilled, but most of them have terrible feel. Lastly, judging a genre which revolves around lyrics (rap) on technical skill is hardly fair. The music in rap is simply the canvas for the artist to pain on. The lyrics are the picture.
Thanks for fleshing this out. I was trying to convey this on the page earlier, but didn't go into enough depth. The part about the double-kick does make me chuckle though. My calves/ankles don't have the same speed they did 10 years ago - kinda sucks.
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On December 11 2010 16:09 Coagulation wrote:
well im the first to admit technical =/= quality.
Then why bring it up? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sure seemed like you were using technicality as a basis for metal being better than rap.
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EPT
