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I live in Roma, Tx. Border town to the Mexican state, much like Falcon, Sullivan City, Mcallen, Alamo, Hidalgo, Escobares, Zaputa(heheh), Laredo, and the many other cities that line the border that separates Mexico from the U.S. There is a place here in Roma I call "the view"(which is the observatory):
Sabrosa ;D!! Well, I come to the observatory when I'm high and look at Mexico and hear the random beaners(I'm a beaner myself so don't think I'm being demeaning) talking to each other or sometimes I'd see beaners cross the river(FROM THE OBSERVATORY). Well, ever since I was a kid I had always heard about "la ultima letra" and "los zees" and how they're all SICARIOS(bad kind of crazy) but I had never really seen it in real life. My dad was loaned a jet ski from a "Los Zetas" soldier and then my dad was visited by another Z saying that the guy owed money and was killed so the jet ski needed to be brought back to the wife. I experienced that when I was 12 and didn't really think much of it.
Now, though, I see strange cars with the Santisima muerte(death; the grim reaper) on the back windshields of big trucks with a lot of tint; I see NARC vehicles that barely even tell citizens that they are NARCs(due to the wide-spread hate of police); I go to the view now and there are 2 border patrol towers, 3 spotlights, and 2 cops and a narc that patrol the entire place now(WTF). When I went there high one time they nearly took my cousin in for public intoxication. We can actually hear the gunfire... it's so close. We heard it for a while(maybe like 15-30 minutes) and then the next day we looked in the local town crier or the Monitor or the Enlace(spanish newspaper) and saw the same headline in each paper, : "14 dead in Tamaulipas state."
I just think to myself "We heard that shit yesterday LIVE!" It's no secret here in the border towns; I went to holding myself(got arrested for 2 warrants that were already taken off by the court of law, yea, cops are fucking awesome here) and in the holding cell were a zeta and a sicario(enforcer, hitman, crazy person) who were talking about what was going on. The Zeta would sell roche pills and the sicario... well, he took care of his mother(while killing hundreds) and they were just talking and talking about Chapo Guzman and how even the police aren't showing their faces anymore in the streets. I hang out regularly with some sicarios and 'workers', some are just innocent people with guns(nvm, that's not innocent). They always have money and guns and women but they're always running now or they aren't Zetas anymore. A large portion of this community became dedos(fingers for the police) so anyone who was a Zeta is either arrested, hiding, or DEAD(killed by a soldier or in a gunfight). There is no 'war', just some cartels got pissed off because the Zees can be assholes about how they handle money. The Zees would tell you "move this much of drugs" or "hold this amount of drugs" and when the payment was due, some Zees weren't so honest. Some would say "you stole drugs; now you owe the Zetas 10,000 for your stolen drugs" even though the person just transported large amounts. Families were thrown in for good measure and the Zetas don't care, honestly. They take all the families and kill them slowly; the Zetas are sort of a "commission." The Mexican government(which is tied to these cartels) don't really want to see the end of the drug trade, they just want to make it a legitimate job. Mexico, because of all these drugs, now has an army of pseudo-pharmacologists, farmers, transporters, and businessmen. They know that the drugs flow so why not make it as safe as possible? The Zetas saw this competition and noted that "well, since these so called 'innocent people' are actually committing horrible drug crimes, why can't we?"
and here we are, writing about it on a forum.
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On March 29 2010 18:19 FieryBalrog wrote:
So legalizing drugs like marijuana is going to be the solution, just like the legality of pharmaceuticals has solved our issues there, right? Or tobacco?
I think its a start, but I find it terribly amusing that the people preaching about the utopia of legalized drugs are the same ones who rant about the giant corporations who control everything. Guess who is going to control the drug trade, newbs?
I agree that legalization isn't a some sort of miracle solution, but it would certainly makes it easier to deal with drug issues. For one addiction is a medical issue and making it criminal makes it that much harder to treat, and for another legalization would go a long way towards eliminating narco-terrorism in the long run.
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Sanya12364 Posts
"Preaching about utopia of legalized drugs" is a straw man. There is no easy solution and no one pretends that there is.
madsweeplol give the realistic arguments for the strength of drug legalization in addressing the drug issue.
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Why even respond to balrog. He clearly is either unable to read or processes everything until it fits what he expected to read.
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On March 30 2010 00:34 Chupacabra(UCSD) wrote:
3-Thinking Calderon is a "corrupt fuck" is just your opinion and you shouldn't be "ROFLing" at people who want sources especially since your thoughts on Calderon are in the clear minority in Mexico which means you SHOULD provide sources.
Now I should be ROFLing at you. You must live in some sort of fairy tale if you really believe all the crap you said about Calderon and his so-called "war". I was born in Mexico. I lived in Ciudad Juarez until last year's May. My wife's family is still living there. It is common knowledge that most of the politicians are "corrupt fucks" including Calderon. Hell, baal provided you a clear example and you are still in denial?
The only reason I could see for you to believe (or pretend to believe) Calderon has good intentions is that you must be close to some politician.
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dont worry, he asked for sources, i gave him two sources proving that Calderon is a corrupt fuck so he just fucked his own argument by asking sources lol.
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On March 30 2010 00:34 Chupacabra(UCSD) wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2010 17:52 baal wrote:On March 26 2010 15:35 Chupacabra(UCSD) wrote:@Baal Alright, well first off just because you have a ton of posts doesn't mean those posts aren't full of shit. Also I don't quite understand how saying "that it's an insult to the people who have died" ties in to a redneck argument about the war in Iraq when I was referring to those who say that the destruction of the twin towers was an inside job by the U.S. government (please read the post). Also I don't deny that there is corruption within Mexico but there are measures being taken against it like never before seen( http://www.javno.com/en-world/mexico-drug-war-hindered-by-deep-police-corruption/207696). Every week there's a news report on some corrupt cop or cartel leader that gets thrown in the can and that's a FACT. President Calderon also initiated a program to inject trained "spies" to detect corruption within the Mexican police which has been extremely effective. "So let me open your eyes here, anyone who believes the government is in a real war against the cartels is a naive child with no idea of what he is talking about." Ok apart from this extremely offensive and not true, this statement is what gave me the vibe that you didn't think anything could be done because it's the public Vs. the government. Also could you elaborate on PAN and the cartels on the pacific. Alright you told me I failed to have a grasp on reality yet you said that the situation is going to be fixed by Mexican society being aware and angry at the cartels. Oh that's great, let's just all be angry at the cartels I'm sure that's gonna make them feel bad about themselves and have them stop when they're making over 300 billion a year. Why don't you go tell Americans that the best way to defeat terrorism is to be angry at the terrorists, I'm sure they'll receive you with arms wide open. The only way to defeat this is with Calderon's current strategy and sure it's gonna be hard to defeat 70 years of PRI. (oh and if our government is really that corrupt do you think PAN would have ever been elected in the first place??? Let me help you out, NO!) Also I sense quite a bit of hate from you towards the world, you're scolding the Scandinavian for asking questions and you're calling the Americans dumb. I don't know about the rest of team liquid but I don't think that 's ok and also people wanting sources is not a bad thing and is not a sign of ignorance. It's a sign of wisdom, analytical mind and a good sense of logic. i am going to make a long post and i hope people read it so they stop being so ignorant about what they are dealing with. Are u mexican or something? cuz if you are i dont freaking get how on earth you can even misspell your nickname in spanish. You are clueless about how the word works in general judging from how you post and you dont even being to understand what i just posted. ( i say this because you think i ever implied that americans should be angry at terrorists ROFL ). Calderon is a corrupt fuck who flooded an entire state for his own profits, do you want me to go into detail? ok ill briefly explain what happened so u and the rest of the forum knows what kind of president we have. CFE is the government monopoly of energy, Felipe Calderon (our current president) was secretary of energy (managed CFE) before being president, he was accused many times of traffic of influences to give contracts to family members and he also owned a big portion of the private energy sector. So here it gets interesting Calderon owns a big chunk of the private energy sector which supplies the energy the government cant (around 31%) (cuz CFE its inefficient as fuck obv) so basically, Calderon makes more money the less energy CFE produces. So CFE energy production drops suddenly 35% (lol wat) and the biggest dam in Tabasco (peñitas dam) drops 66% !!! wtf. Rain season started and the Dam was still producing very little, meaning it was getting full very quickly, when it reached 80% of its capacity, the engeneers sent many warnings to CFE but obviously Calderon and friends couldnt hear over the sound of the constant "caching" they were making with the private energy sector. Well the dam reached its critical point and was about to break, so CFE decides to open the gates in an emergency, releasing 2,000,000 liters per seconds into the rivers.... so what happens???: this happens. An entire freaking state is buried under 2 meters of water with losses in the billions.... And this is where it gets id ont know if "hilarious", the president is interviewed and you want to guess what he said? lol he said [textually quoting him here]
The high tide was provoked by the moon attraction, made that the water of the rivers couldn't mmm... reach the seas
Yeah, thats the white knight who will save us lol Alright I'm gonna stop arguing with you because this is getting pretty stupid and I honestly didn't like the feeling of being banned (I'm surprised you don't considering you've been banned 8 times already). I'm just gonna address a few things that you said that I feel are unfair statements. 1-You spelled El Chupacabras wrong for your nick so how can you be Mexican?. It's actually not spelled wrong, we're in an American forum and Americans don't call it "El Chupacabras" 2-Hmmm when did I imply you thought Americans should "defeat" terrorist with anger? I was only making a comparison that was on the same level logically as your solution to the drug problem. (For the second time please go back and read the post) 3-Thinking Calderon is a "corrupt fuck" is just your opinion and you shouldn't be "ROFLing" at people who want sources especially since your thoughts on Calderon are in the clear minority in Mexico which means you SHOULD provide sources. 4- Also since you had a problem with my nick I think it's only fair that I call you out on your profile; "The depth of my knowledge goes beyond your wildest dream, its simply out of the reach of mere common people, you are nothing but wee, a soiled child standing right next to my devouring presence." Really?
1.- First of all buddy, this forum is actually european.
2.- i laughed at you because you believe i implied we should project hatred towards terrorists which means you didnt pay attention at all, i said our hatred should be directed towards the real responsible, government.
3.- i provided sources and i owned u, and lol @ being part of the minority, now you prove sources buddy
4.- You just proved that paragraph in my profile, clearly my knowledge is way beyond your reach.
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On March 30 2010 18:42 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2010 00:34 Chupacabra(UCSD) wrote:On March 29 2010 17:52 baal wrote:On March 26 2010 15:35 Chupacabra(UCSD) wrote:@Baal Alright, well first off just because you have a ton of posts doesn't mean those posts aren't full of shit. Also I don't quite understand how saying "that it's an insult to the people who have died" ties in to a redneck argument about the war in Iraq when I was referring to those who say that the destruction of the twin towers was an inside job by the U.S. government (please read the post). Also I don't deny that there is corruption within Mexico but there are measures being taken against it like never before seen( http://www.javno.com/en-world/mexico-drug-war-hindered-by-deep-police-corruption/207696). Every week there's a news report on some corrupt cop or cartel leader that gets thrown in the can and that's a FACT. President Calderon also initiated a program to inject trained "spies" to detect corruption within the Mexican police which has been extremely effective. "So let me open your eyes here, anyone who believes the government is in a real war against the cartels is a naive child with no idea of what he is talking about." Ok apart from this extremely offensive and not true, this statement is what gave me the vibe that you didn't think anything could be done because it's the public Vs. the government. Also could you elaborate on PAN and the cartels on the pacific. Alright you told me I failed to have a grasp on reality yet you said that the situation is going to be fixed by Mexican society being aware and angry at the cartels. Oh that's great, let's just all be angry at the cartels I'm sure that's gonna make them feel bad about themselves and have them stop when they're making over 300 billion a year. Why don't you go tell Americans that the best way to defeat terrorism is to be angry at the terrorists, I'm sure they'll receive you with arms wide open. The only way to defeat this is with Calderon's current strategy and sure it's gonna be hard to defeat 70 years of PRI. (oh and if our government is really that corrupt do you think PAN would have ever been elected in the first place??? Let me help you out, NO!) Also I sense quite a bit of hate from you towards the world, you're scolding the Scandinavian for asking questions and you're calling the Americans dumb. I don't know about the rest of team liquid but I don't think that 's ok and also people wanting sources is not a bad thing and is not a sign of ignorance. It's a sign of wisdom, analytical mind and a good sense of logic. i am going to make a long post and i hope people read it so they stop being so ignorant about what they are dealing with. Are u mexican or something? cuz if you are i dont freaking get how on earth you can even misspell your nickname in spanish. You are clueless about how the word works in general judging from how you post and you dont even being to understand what i just posted. ( i say this because you think i ever implied that americans should be angry at terrorists ROFL ). Calderon is a corrupt fuck who flooded an entire state for his own profits, do you want me to go into detail? ok ill briefly explain what happened so u and the rest of the forum knows what kind of president we have. CFE is the government monopoly of energy, Felipe Calderon (our current president) was secretary of energy (managed CFE) before being president, he was accused many times of traffic of influences to give contracts to family members and he also owned a big portion of the private energy sector. So here it gets interesting Calderon owns a big chunk of the private energy sector which supplies the energy the government cant (around 31%) (cuz CFE its inefficient as fuck obv) so basically, Calderon makes more money the less energy CFE produces. So CFE energy production drops suddenly 35% (lol wat) and the biggest dam in Tabasco (peñitas dam) drops 66% !!! wtf. Rain season started and the Dam was still producing very little, meaning it was getting full very quickly, when it reached 80% of its capacity, the engeneers sent many warnings to CFE but obviously Calderon and friends couldnt hear over the sound of the constant "caching" they were making with the private energy sector. Well the dam reached its critical point and was about to break, so CFE decides to open the gates in an emergency, releasing 2,000,000 liters per seconds into the rivers.... so what happens???: this happens. An entire freaking state is buried under 2 meters of water with losses in the billions.... And this is where it gets id ont know if "hilarious", the president is interviewed and you want to guess what he said? lol he said [textually quoting him here]
The high tide was provoked by the moon attraction, made that the water of the rivers couldn't mmm... reach the seas
Yeah, thats the white knight who will save us lol Alright I'm gonna stop arguing with you because this is getting pretty stupid and I honestly didn't like the feeling of being banned (I'm surprised you don't considering you've been banned 8 times already). I'm just gonna address a few things that you said that I feel are unfair statements. 1-You spelled El Chupacabras wrong for your nick so how can you be Mexican?. It's actually not spelled wrong, we're in an American forum and Americans don't call it "El Chupacabras" 2-Hmmm when did I imply you thought Americans should "defeat" terrorist with anger? I was only making a comparison that was on the same level logically as your solution to the drug problem. (For the second time please go back and read the post) 3-Thinking Calderon is a "corrupt fuck" is just your opinion and you shouldn't be "ROFLing" at people who want sources especially since your thoughts on Calderon are in the clear minority in Mexico which means you SHOULD provide sources. 4- Also since you had a problem with my nick I think it's only fair that I call you out on your profile; "The depth of my knowledge goes beyond your wildest dream, its simply out of the reach of mere common people, you are nothing but wee, a soiled child standing right next to my devouring presence." Really? 1.- First of all buddy, this forum is actually european. 2.- i laughed at you because you believe i implied we should project hatred towards terrorists which means you didnt pay attention at all, i said our hatred should be directed towards the real responsible, government. 3.- i provided sources and i owned u, and lol @ being part of the minority, now you prove sources buddy 4.- You just proved that paragraph in my profile, clearly my knowledge is way beyond your reach.
1- Your comment was still retarded for insinuating that I wasn't Mexican because my nick is chupacabra instead of el chupacabras.
2- Uh actually not really, I never implied that's what you believed. I was making a comparison that was on level ground with your solution.
3- All your sources were filled with "could" or "might" they never said anything concrete and were subjective as hell.
4- You just proved your a self absorbed prick that needs to grow up.
5- Take some English lessons.
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On March 29 2010 18:19 FieryBalrog wrote:
So legalizing drugs like marijuana is going to be the solution, just like the legality of pharmaceuticals has solved our issues there, right? Or tobacco?
I think its a start, but I find it terribly amusing that the people preaching about the utopia of legalized drugs are the same ones who rant about the giant corporations who control everything. Guess who is going to control the drug trade, newbs?
Legalization is certainly the right pathway, like you said it would be no utopia; but it can be looked at from a human rights perspective. Should we lock up or punish someone for smoking a joint, or getting himself high? We make getting a job harder for convicted drug offenders, we make going to school harder for drug offenders, the public stigma associated with current law in the U.S. which influences drug policies around the world makes anything harder for these offenders to do anything productive and puts non abusers (most of the drug using population) and generally law abiding citizens at risk. I think it's a huge waste of resources. Most of the damage caused from illegal drugs are from their status not from the actual chemical consequences of whichever drug you are taking, such as incarceration, probation, violence, or not knowing what you are actually taking because you bought it off some guy and not in a store and you end up overdosing because you don't know what you are doing.
Drug cartels get most of their money from marijuana, unless we hit them where they get their funding from its going to be the same story, this has been going on forever, a law enforcement solution to the problem is impossible (see ODALE federal strike force). From the research I've done on looking at drug policies around the world I have yet to see any country tackle the supply side of trafficking, and actually allowing the cultivation and regulation of drugs such as marijuana which would actually cut out most funding to the black market for illegal drugs. Some countries are lenient in terms of use and possession but do not tackle the supply issue. If we can take the harm reduction policies of many European countries and combine it with the commercialization of illegal drugs, at least cannabis, then we might get somewhere. Even if legalization only saved $1 and netted no tax revenue it would still be worth it, and it should be said most estimates are overblown on the revenue legalization would bring in, but that makes no difference to me the the pros v cons are overwhelming regardless of the economic gains.
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When will people realize that the solution these problems isn't as simple as just legalizing drugs? I'm all for the legalization of marijuana, but the truth is that while it makes economic sense for the government, it creates its own issues that need to be dealt with as well. It also doesn't solve the issue of drug-related violence since drug traffickers will continue to exist and honestly, if it isn't marijuana, it's going to be something else that they're shooting people over. The idea that legalizing marijuana is going to suddenly put these people out of business is really laughable... The issue at hand isn't the drugs involved. It's the people and organizations involved. Until the cartels and their influence can be kept in check, the legalization of marijuana will do little in the way of stopping the violence. So for the people using this tragic situation as a reason to argue for legalization, please stop. There are plenty of good arguments that could be made for legalization, but this really isn't one of them...
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Sanya12364 Posts
On March 31 2010 08:18 HeartOfTofu wrote:
When will people realize that the solution these problems isn't as simple as just legalizing drugs? I'm all for the legalization of marijuana, but the truth is that while it makes economic sense for the government, it creates its own issues that need to be dealt with as well. It also doesn't solve the issue of drug-related violence since drug traffickers will continue to exist and honestly, if it isn't marijuana, it's going to be something else that they're shooting people over. The idea that legalizing marijuana is going to suddenly put these people out of business is really laughable... The issue at hand isn't the drugs involved. It's the people and organizations involved. Until the cartels and their influence can be kept in check, the legalization of marijuana will do little in the way of stopping the violence. So for the people using this tragic situation as a reason to argue for legalization, please stop. There are plenty of good arguments that could be made for legalization, but this really isn't one of them...
Wow, there is so much substance in this post...
These cartels, they just shoot each other for no reason at all. They just feel like it. It's not because they're fighting over turf control of a lucrative but illegal commodity. They aren't fighting over staging areas and gateways into the extremely profitable US markets for drugs. Those reasons that most people attribute to triggering large scale wars between cartels are just imaginary. The kidnappings and violence aren't side jobs that leverage the large armed presence that the cartels need anyway to protect their main vocation of drug trafficking.
laughable... yes.
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On March 31 2010 13:20 TanGeng wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 08:18 HeartOfTofu wrote:
When will people realize that the solution these problems isn't as simple as just legalizing drugs? I'm all for the legalization of marijuana, but the truth is that while it makes economic sense for the government, it creates its own issues that need to be dealt with as well. It also doesn't solve the issue of drug-related violence since drug traffickers will continue to exist and honestly, if it isn't marijuana, it's going to be something else that they're shooting people over. The idea that legalizing marijuana is going to suddenly put these people out of business is really laughable... The issue at hand isn't the drugs involved. It's the people and organizations involved. Until the cartels and their influence can be kept in check, the legalization of marijuana will do little in the way of stopping the violence. So for the people using this tragic situation as a reason to argue for legalization, please stop. There are plenty of good arguments that could be made for legalization, but this really isn't one of them... Wow, there is so much substance in this post... These cartels, they just shoot each other for no reason at all. They just feel like it. It's not because they're fighting over turf control of a lucrative but illegal commodity. They aren't fighting over staging areas and gateways into the extremely profitable US markets for drugs. Those reasons that most people attribute to triggering large scale wars between cartels are just imaginary. The kidnappings and violence aren't side jobs that leverage the large armed presence that the cartels need anyway to protect their main vocation of drug trafficking. laughable... yes.
thank you, you saved me some time by smacking his ass.
And actually its funny that the guy said this isnt a good argument for legalization while this is probably the strongest argument for legalization ever.
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REYNOSA, Mexico – In a ratcheting up of tactics in a long, bloody war, drug cartel gunmen made seven especially brazen assaults on Mexican soldiers in one day this week, throwing up roadblocks near army garrisons and spraying checkpoints with automatic weapons fire.
The apparently coordinated assaults raise the prospect that parts of Mexico could be descending into open warfare between the cartels and the government.
Source
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On March 29 2010 18:19 FieryBalrog wrote:
So legalizing drugs like marijuana is going to be the solution, just like the legality of pharmaceuticals has solved our issues there, right? Or tobacco?
I think its a start, but I find it terribly amusing that the people preaching about the utopia of legalized drugs are the same ones who rant about the giant corporations who control everything. Guess who is going to control the drug trade, newbs?
Pharmaceutical companies don't terrorize cities, publicly murder politicians, and plain and simply slaughter tons and tons of people. If I had the choice of having pharmaceutical companies or drug cartels controlling cocaine/marijuana, I would certainly choose a business that is regulated by the government. Drug cartels are not very regulated...
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On March 30 2010 00:48 FonzeXD wrote:
.... Very interesting tx. =)
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Let me try to clear something up.
It's irrelevant trying to prove that drug cartels are government backed.
Governments are cartels.
You're "bound" to respect its laws whenever you happen to be in their domain. you're bound to pay a fee to them. If you don't, you go to jail or die.
Now whether it's a good mafia or not, it's up for each one to decide.
But never think for a moment there is such a thing as "government v. cartels", more like "cartel v. cartel". Some more or less violent collective group v. another violent collective group.
The difference between one or another is only on the level of aggression.
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Is it safe to even go for community service stuff?
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On April 02 2010 18:31 Yurebis wrote:
Let me try to clear something up.
It's irrelevant trying to prove that drug cartels are government backed.
Governments are cartels.
You're "bound" to respect its laws whenever you happen to be in their domain. you're bound to pay a fee to them. If you don't, you go to jail or die.
Now whether it's a good mafia or not, it's up for each one to decide.
But never think for a moment there is such a thing as "government v. cartels", more like "cartel v. cartel". Some more or less violent collective group v. another violent collective group.
The difference between one or another is only on the level of aggression.
Not true when you get to elect who is running the governament. "government of the people, by the people"
What if you remove the governament? It becomes anarchy, just like Somalia with tonnes of pirates, rebels, killing and raping.
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On April 03 2010 11:09 bh. wrote:
Is it safe to even go for community service stuff?
yes as long as your not trying to traffic drugs
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/Sc0rpion10/l_8f50540c6dc7041b3703a18c417f13b9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.schillerinstitute.org/graphics/photos/eco_strategic/Tabasco_Mexico_flood_color_350w.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100401/capt.e5ffc6fd78314d1498c35cfbb30c9044-3ce25a9b7e5e43e29c466ac88bf6a6f4-0.jpg?x=277&y=345&q=85&sig=vrnW9yvm2grjgUAaFFZZFg--)
