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The best solution to ending the drug war? Stop using drugs! Seriously. I am kinda sickened by this whole "just legalize it" mentality disturbs the hell out of me. Every time you light up, ten to one the drugs you're using is stained with the blood of innocents. Men, women and children all killed in the name of making money giving people in the US drugs.
If you do legalize it those people die for nothing. Ignoring that, sorry it's a poor life style choice. Just like anything else these things should be up to the person to choose but frankly I seriously doubt the cartel's are just going to pack up and go if it's legal and even then what about those already dead? The cartels get a pass on all of that? I don't think that's right.
You want to have an effective drug war? Stop using. Spending money on the burning of crops and the killing of drug lords won't do crap so long as people still feel like blazing up. If it can make a profit it'll still happen.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could want to light up if they knew the true price of the drugs they are using. Far too bloody for my tastes.
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Parnage, I smoke strictly home-grown hydro, so its really not a problem for me and probably a lot of the people that browse TL. You can tell your smoking Mexican weed when you smoke it, trust me.
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On April 03 2010 15:27 furymonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2010 18:31 Yurebis wrote:
Let me try to clear something up.
It's irrelevant trying to prove that drug cartels are government backed.
Governments are cartels.
You're "bound" to respect its laws whenever you happen to be in their domain. you're bound to pay a fee to them. If you don't, you go to jail or die.
Now whether it's a good mafia or not, it's up for each one to decide.
But never think for a moment there is such a thing as "government v. cartels", more like "cartel v. cartel". Some more or less violent collective group v. another violent collective group.
The difference between one or another is only on the level of aggression. Not true when you get to elect who is running the governament. "government of the people, by the people" What if you remove the governament? It becomes anarchy, just like Somalia with tonnes of pirates, rebels, killing and raping.
Except that in the period that Somalia was anarchist it had an unprecedented growth in its economy, healthcare, education and pretty much every aspect, and actually not only the highest growth in somalia's history, but int he entire region sir.
I strongly suggest you to not bring anarchy into this thread because i guarantee you i am extremely more informed about the subject than you are and i will simply verbally crush you and derailing this thread so skip it son.
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On April 04 2010 15:31 Parnage wrote:
The best solution to ending the drug war? Stop using drugs! Seriously. I am kinda sickened by this whole "just legalize it" mentality disturbs the hell out of me. Every time you light up, ten to one the drugs you're using is stained with the blood of innocents. Men, women and children all killed in the name of making money giving people in the US drugs.
If you do legalize it those people die for nothing. Ignoring that, sorry it's a poor life style choice. Just like anything else these things should be up to the person to choose but frankly I seriously doubt the cartel's are just going to pack up and go if it's legal and even then what about those already dead? The cartels get a pass on all of that? I don't think that's right.
You want to have an effective drug war? Stop using. Spending money on the burning of crops and the killing of drug lords won't do crap so long as people still feel like blazing up. If it can make a profit it'll still happen.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could want to light up if they knew the true price of the drugs they are using. Far too bloody for my tastes.
let me quote Benjamin Franklin: "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"
If tomorrow meat were illegal, would you fight for people to stop eating it, or to make it legal?
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On April 04 2010 23:43 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 15:31 Parnage wrote:
The best solution to ending the drug war? Stop using drugs! Seriously. I am kinda sickened by this whole "just legalize it" mentality disturbs the hell out of me. Every time you light up, ten to one the drugs you're using is stained with the blood of innocents. Men, women and children all killed in the name of making money giving people in the US drugs.
If you do legalize it those people die for nothing. Ignoring that, sorry it's a poor life style choice. Just like anything else these things should be up to the person to choose but frankly I seriously doubt the cartel's are just going to pack up and go if it's legal and even then what about those already dead? The cartels get a pass on all of that? I don't think that's right.
You want to have an effective drug war? Stop using. Spending money on the burning of crops and the killing of drug lords won't do crap so long as people still feel like blazing up. If it can make a profit it'll still happen.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could want to light up if they knew the true price of the drugs they are using. Far too bloody for my tastes. let me quote Benjamin Franklin: "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" If tomorrow meat were illegal, would you fight for people to stop eating it, or to make it legal?
Yet, unlike meat, you don't need drugs. People need to be educated not only on the dangers of using drugs because frankly, that doesn't stop people from trying them but on what Parnage said. The amount of innocent lives entangled in a war that has become their own is ridiculous.
If it were to became legalized, what would we do with the addicts?
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Sanya12364 Posts
Prohibition is not dealing with the demand side of the issue. If we want to really deal with the drug demand with the ethos of civil society, it would come in the form of socially stigmatizing people for drug use. If those that did drugs were to be ostracized by society until they professed a desire to quit and people helped them quit, that would be dealing with drug demand. But if you look at how the world handles excessive alcohol consumption, it's readily apparently that people care when others recklessly endanger bystanders but are largely ambivalent about what other people do for pleasure privately. Smoking marijuana intrinsically poses no danger to anyone (think about when the smoker grows the plants).
Prohibition of drugs is instead civil society punting on the responsibility to deal with the drug demand and put it beyond the realm of its influence. In making it illegal, parts of society can pretend that drugs don't exist - like hiding their head in the sand. Rather than addressing the drug problem, prohibition hands the issue over to the underworld where the prices are higher and the ethos have a certain violent and vengeful streak. This is where the blood of innocents is being spilled: in the illegal trafficking and in fighting the Drug War.
Blood is spilled because drugs are illegal, because civil society chooses to be irresponsible.
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On April 04 2010 15:31 Parnage wrote:
The best solution to ending the drug war? Stop using drugs! Seriously. I am kinda sickened by this whole "just legalize it" mentality disturbs the hell out of me. Every time you light up, ten to one the drugs you're using is stained with the blood of innocents. Men, women and children all killed in the name of making money giving people in the US drugs.
People have been using substances for millennia. Expecting them to simply stop is unrealistic.
On April 04 2010 15:31 Parnage wrote:
If you do legalize it those people die for nothing. Ignoring that, sorry it's a poor life style choice. Just like anything else these things should be up to the person to choose but frankly I seriously doubt the cartel's are just going to pack up and go if it's legal and even then what about those already dead? The cartels get a pass on all of that? I don't think that's right.
Which do you think they would rather have died for? An unrealistic policy that caused not only their deaths, but the deaths of many others? Or a switch to a practical policy that, while not perfect, mitigates many of the problems surrounding drugs more effectively than prohibition?
On April 04 2010 15:31 Parnage wrote:
You want to have an effective drug war? Stop using. Spending money on the burning of crops and the killing of drug lords won't do crap so long as people still feel like blazing up. If it can make a profit it'll still happen.
Exactly: profit is the key here. Legalization and regulation would remove the risk inflation that makes drugs so lucrative for cartels. It would also allow legitimate businesses to enter the market which could easily out compete their criminal counterparts. Thus you remove the profit incentive for cartels to be involved in drugs in the first place.
On April 04 2010 23:38 baal wrote:
Except that in the period that Somalia was anarchist it had an unprecedented growth in its economy, healthcare, education and pretty much every aspect, and actually not only the highest growth in somalia's history, but int he entire region sir.
Source?
On April 05 2010 00:22 ilistis wrote:
If it were to became legalized, what would we do with the addicts?
Addiction is a medical issue, not a criminal issue, and criminalizing it makes it all the more difficult to treat. So legalization would actually allow us to better address addiction.
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Sanya12364 Posts
On April 05 2010 01:52 madsweepslol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 23:38 baal wrote:
Except that in the period that Somalia was anarchist it had an unprecedented growth in its economy, healthcare, education and pretty much every aspect, and actually not only the highest growth in somalia's history, but int he entire region sir. Source?
I've heard of this idea with respect to Somalia.
One point of view along these lines.
http://www.independent.org/publications/working_papers/article.asp?id=1861
As for Benjamin Powell, he does quite a bit of defending the "undefendable" - like going on Bullshit! and defending sweatshops in the Walmart episode.
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On April 04 2010 23:38 baal wrote:
Except that in the period that Somalia was anarchist it had an unprecedented growth in its economy, healthcare, education and pretty much every aspect, and actually not only the highest growth in somalia's history, but int he entire region sir.
Noticed I implying government supported by the people? Not some government plagued by corruptions or fake elections. Of cause when you comparing a rotten apple to a rotten orange, one will still come on top, and lets not forget its GDP are still one of the lowest in the world.
Also when you have pirates going around kidnapping sailors for ransoms, raising shipping costs, what good is that for everyone else?
Sure some bad government can be seen as cartel, but you don't generalized them as one.
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On April 05 2010 00:22 ilistis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 23:43 baal wrote:On April 04 2010 15:31 Parnage wrote:
The best solution to ending the drug war? Stop using drugs! Seriously. I am kinda sickened by this whole "just legalize it" mentality disturbs the hell out of me. Every time you light up, ten to one the drugs you're using is stained with the blood of innocents. Men, women and children all killed in the name of making money giving people in the US drugs.
If you do legalize it those people die for nothing. Ignoring that, sorry it's a poor life style choice. Just like anything else these things should be up to the person to choose but frankly I seriously doubt the cartel's are just going to pack up and go if it's legal and even then what about those already dead? The cartels get a pass on all of that? I don't think that's right.
You want to have an effective drug war? Stop using. Spending money on the burning of crops and the killing of drug lords won't do crap so long as people still feel like blazing up. If it can make a profit it'll still happen.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could want to light up if they knew the true price of the drugs they are using. Far too bloody for my tastes. let me quote Benjamin Franklin: "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" If tomorrow meat were illegal, would you fight for people to stop eating it, or to make it legal? Yet, unlike meat, you don't need drugs. People need to be educated not only on the dangers of using drugs because frankly, that doesn't stop people from trying them but on what Parnage said. The amount of innocent lives entangled in a war that has become their own is ridiculous. If it were to became legalized, what would we do with the addicts?
Hahaha are you serious?... we need to consume meat to eat? that is new to me, brb ill inform all those vegetarians that they are actually dead... LOL
Frankly you must inform yourself with the dangers of drugs, not others because you are absolutely oblivious to them it seems, unless you believe alcohol should be illegal because its is way more harmful than the majority of illegal substances like LSD or MDMA (ecstasy) for example.
oh, and what will we do with aaaalll the junkies legalization will create, well newsflash.. USA has a ridiculously higher consumption of marijuana than Netherlands where its legal:
![[image loading]](http://www.liquidpoker.net/user_pictures/a214e.Untasasdfafitled-1.png)
oh man... im raping without lube in this thread
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Legalize it and let the multi-billion dollar companies run the cartels out of business.
Also, the Netherlands isn't the only country to legalize it and not have rates go up. I can't remember the exact one, but I think it was Argentina or one of the countries near it that changed there laws so that if you got caught doing drugs instead of going to jail you had to go to mini-rehab sessions.
Basically what happened there was you did not see an increase in drug use. On top of that, you had people who were users having their lives changed for the better by quitting once they had the rehab classes (since I think we can all agree that drugs aren't something good and if you were given a choice you'd elminate use but that isn't reasonable as pointed out in this thread).
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God damn, Baal, keep the info coming, I love reading your post in this thread. Also, living in Dallas and living in Brownsville before I pretty much agree with everything you have said.
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On April 05 2010 04:43 furymonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 23:38 baal wrote:
Except that in the period that Somalia was anarchist it had an unprecedented growth in its economy, healthcare, education and pretty much every aspect, and actually not only the highest growth in somalia's history, but int he entire region sir.
Noticed I implying government supported by the people? Not some government plagued by corruptions or fake elections. Of cause when you comparing a rotten apple to a rotten orange, one will still come on top, and lets not forget its GDP are still one of the lowest in the world. Also when you have pirates going around kidnapping sailors for ransoms, raising shipping costs, what good is that for everyone else? Sure some bad government can be seen as cartel, but you don't generalized them as one.
lol and what kind of government do you think Mexico will get? yeah tomorrow we will wake up and have nice clean honest politicians, right man that is logical, government is a reflection of its people, and a reflection even uglier than the source since government attracts the scum of society into it and proves them with power who corrupts them even further.
Pretty much every atrocity done in all history was done under a society supervised by the state, wars, famine injustice etc, the holocaust, yup... made by the state, the crusades... yup, by the state/church, do you seriously want me to list every disaster caused by governments?
quite frankly, in comparison piracy is quite harmless.
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On April 04 2010 15:31 Parnage wrote:
The best solution to ending the drug war? Stop using drugs! Seriously. I am kinda sickened by this whole "just legalize it" mentality disturbs the hell out of me. Every time you light up, ten to one the drugs you're using is stained with the blood of innocents. Men, women and children all killed in the name of making money giving people in the US drugs.
If you do legalize it those people die for nothing. Ignoring that, sorry it's a poor life style choice. Just like anything else these things should be up to the person to choose but frankly I seriously doubt the cartel's are just going to pack up and go if it's legal and even then what about those already dead? The cartels get a pass on all of that? I don't think that's right.
You want to have an effective drug war? Stop using. Spending money on the burning of crops and the killing of drug lords won't do crap so long as people still feel like blazing up. If it can make a profit it'll still happen.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could want to light up if they knew the true price of the drugs they are using. Far too bloody for my tastes.
I'd like to live in your utopian world where everyone made good decisions about their lives...
Those people are dying for nothing anyways; the best we can do is try to hold the violence down by reigning in the underground market through legality. People have been using mind-altering substances since the beginning of civilization, and the phenomenon simply isn't going to go away.
The cartels get no "free pass" with drug legalization. They're still kidnappers and murderers, and hopefully we'll be able to prevent them from violence and punish them for violence, but in the meantime lets combat them by hitting where it hurts: their pocketbook.
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On April 05 2010 14:06 monolith94 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 15:31 Parnage wrote:
The best solution to ending the drug war? Stop using drugs! Seriously. I am kinda sickened by this whole "just legalize it" mentality disturbs the hell out of me. Every time you light up, ten to one the drugs you're using is stained with the blood of innocents. Men, women and children all killed in the name of making money giving people in the US drugs.
If you do legalize it those people die for nothing. Ignoring that, sorry it's a poor life style choice. Just like anything else these things should be up to the person to choose but frankly I seriously doubt the cartel's are just going to pack up and go if it's legal and even then what about those already dead? The cartels get a pass on all of that? I don't think that's right.
You want to have an effective drug war? Stop using. Spending money on the burning of crops and the killing of drug lords won't do crap so long as people still feel like blazing up. If it can make a profit it'll still happen.
I honestly don't understand how anyone could want to light up if they knew the true price of the drugs they are using. Far too bloody for my tastes. I'd like to live in your utopian world where everyone made good decisions about their lives... Those people are dying for nothing anyways; the best we can do is try to hold the violence down by reigning in the underground market through legality. People have been using mind-altering substances since the beginning of civilization, and the phenomenon simply isn't going to go away. The cartels get no "free pass" with drug legalization. They're still kidnappers and murderers, and hopefully we'll be able to prevent them from violence and punish them for violence, but in the meantime lets combat them by hitting where it hurts: their pocketbook.
that is not an utopia where people do not consume drugs, an utopia would be where people use them responsibly, altering how the mind works can be very beneficial for many purposes like introspection or even entertainment, the negative side comes when people start abusing that substance and well that goes for pretty much everything in life.
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Baal, you're putting words into my mouth. I said: "I'd like to live in your utopian world where everyone made good decisions about their lives..."
I did -not- say a society where people don't use drugs. Important difference, there.
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Nine five six represent XP
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On April 06 2010 03:12 monolith94 wrote:
Baal, you're putting words into my mouth. I said: "I'd like to live in your utopian world where everyone made good decisions about their lives..."
I did -not- say a society where people don't use drugs. Important difference, there.
well you said "id like you like in your utopian world" speaking to the guy who said that people shouldnt use drugs, like you were acknowledging that was an utopia.
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I look forward to these threads every year to see baal fight the masses ^_^
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Police don't seem to be able to do anything.
MEXICO CITY � Police say at least 80 gunmen terrorized a town in northern Mexico for several hours and killed four people.
Sonora state attorney general Abel Murrieta says the assailants arrived in the town of Maycoba in at least 15 pickup trucks, opened fire on the state police headquarters and set it ablaze.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/10/mexico-drug-war-at-least-_n_532867.html
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EPT
