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On March 23 2010 08:09 ArsenalGunners wrote:
Again with the bashing of Man U like the last 10 posts I made are all connected to Messi being the best player in the world, comparing Rooney to Messi being a joke, comparing the dribbling ability between the two a joke. I havent brought up Man U specifically in those posts and I swear to you I wont bring up your shitty Man U from here on out. You say comparing the past is pointless when you just argued 2 fucking posts ago that Messi was shut out whenever Evra went to the Camp Nou. No hard teams in La Liga you couldnt fuckig name 5 teams in la liga without google poser you are a casual fan and you cant deny it because those of us who understand football can see through every single post you have made so far. Here you want an honest opinion how about Rooney's coach Sir. Alex, this quote is from Feb 16, 2010 “Ronaldo is the best player in the world, but I am biased,” said Ferguson. This says two thigs; one he admits to being biased to justify not picking Messi, two he picks Ronaldo over Rooney who is still on his team. Not every game in champions league is important where like half of the competition is a knockout stage and the first part of the competition is a group stage where you 6 games to finish 1st or 2nd in your group. Ya fuck how important can those be. Look dude just admit you dont know football go back to the threads where you made the majority of your 14000 posts and where people will value your opinion. I realize im being an asshole but im fed up man I cant argue with people who I know dont know shit about the game.
I guess I can understand why an Arsenal fan doesn't understand why rooney is world class, because he actually scores goals instead of pissing around with the ball for 20 minutes in the opponents box, passing it 1billion times untill it reaches Bendtner to miss.
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On March 23 2010 08:14 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Arsenalgunners you should calm down dude, yes im a casual football fan, i can't compete with pro fans like you. Ferguson rarely praises his players outright, it's always to motivate them further. Feb.16 was before Messi scored his two hat tricks, so no one really thinking about him back then. Most importantly that comment doesn't prove anything roflmao are you serious?
Before his 2 hat trick he was leading la liga with 19 goals on the season and is the current fifa world player of the year and every game he played had him showcase how great he was. Sorry that because he wasnt scoring hat tricks in didnt make it on ESPN for you to hear about it. How exactly do you want to compare Messi and Rooney? if you compare them based on skills I will laugh at you. If you compare them based on goals scored? then like its been pointed out 2-3 times now Messi has scored more then Rooney this season. Also whoever said scoring the most goals ment you are one of the best in the world, Diego Forlan had the most a few years back and wasnt even top 5 in the voting.
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On March 23 2010 08:15 UdderChaos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 08:09 ArsenalGunners wrote:
Again with the bashing of Man U like the last 10 posts I made are all connected to Messi being the best player in the world, comparing Rooney to Messi being a joke, comparing the dribbling ability between the two a joke. I havent brought up Man U specifically in those posts and I swear to you I wont bring up your shitty Man U from here on out. You say comparing the past is pointless when you just argued 2 fucking posts ago that Messi was shut out whenever Evra went to the Camp Nou. No hard teams in La Liga you couldnt fuckig name 5 teams in la liga without google poser you are a casual fan and you cant deny it because those of us who understand football can see through every single post you have made so far. Here you want an honest opinion how about Rooney's coach Sir. Alex, this quote is from Feb 16, 2010 “Ronaldo is the best player in the world, but I am biased,” said Ferguson. This says two thigs; one he admits to being biased to justify not picking Messi, two he picks Ronaldo over Rooney who is still on his team. Not every game in champions league is important where like half of the competition is a knockout stage and the first part of the competition is a group stage where you 6 games to finish 1st or 2nd in your group. Ya fuck how important can those be. Look dude just admit you dont know football go back to the threads where you made the majority of your 14000 posts and where people will value your opinion. I realize im being an asshole but im fed up man I cant argue with people who I know dont know shit about the game. I guess I can understand why an Arsenal fan doesn't understand why rooney is world class, because he actually scores goals instead of pissing around with the ball for 20 minutes in the opponents box, passing it 1billion times untill it reaches Bendtner to miss.
Hi pleased to meet you.
ArsenalGunners Canada. March 22 2010 06:50.
"Rooney dosent create his own goals he's a striker and yes u can argue hes the best at his position with the way he finished"
ArsenalGunners Canada. March 22 2010 14:10.
"We just lacking that deadly finisher and hey id be first to welcome Rooney at Arsenal."
Spoken not by someone who dosent understand that Rooney is world class but by someone who understands that comparing Rooney to Messi for best player in the world is a joke.
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Sorry I don't get skysports dude I can't afford the premium channels
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its goltv for me and its like $2 a month set up pay pal ill send it to you monthly its a shame that you are being deprived of watching two of the best players ever aside from the odd champions league game which Ronaldo isnt part of anymore.
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Even if I have never watched a football game in my life, I don't see what that has to do with anything I've posted.
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Messi, as a teenager, scored a hattrick vs Real Madrid. He has scored in a CL final. He has scored vs every top team in Spain, vs Lyon and Bayern, vs Spain and France etc. The quality pf the goals is amazing, with splendid strikes and solo runs reminiscent to Maradona. The quantity is getting absurd (more goals than games in La Liga this season). And still goalscoring isn't really his most fascinating ability. His dribbling is simply beyond compare; he has gone past and humiliated more defenders than there are stars in the universe, made a fool out of countless world class players and can sometimes seem literally impossible to take the ball from without resorting to unfair means. Still he's unselfish and knows when, and how, to pass the ball to his teammates, providing quite a lot of assists. When Messi has a good day (and he has a lot of them) he's unstoppable.
Rooney is fantastic, but he does not have the ''it'' that elevates him from being a world class player to a true phenomenon. Messi can get the ball in the middle of the pitch and the entire crowd will still sit on the edges of their seats knowing that he could just dart past everyone and score yet another dream goal. When Ronaldinho was in his prime it was the same thing, there was magic in the air as soon as he got the ball no matter where he was, he could do anything with it, dribble through the entire defence, provide some beautiful assist. The ball just has to get in the vicinity of Totti in order for your heartrate to go up by a hundred, because you know that he can, from nothing, create a goalscoring chance by finding some seemingly impossible hole for a through ball with a backheel. These are the type of players who by themselves are worth the entire ticket fee. Rooney is not a unique player. He's great, but he's not spectacular. He does not possess the attributes that makes him really, really special.
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I have a Barcelona jersey that says ''Holgerius'' on the back. How awesome is that?
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Rooney along with Messi best in the world -Mancini
Messi one of the best ever - Rooney
Rooney is the best in the world - Ancelotti
Wayne Rooney Joins Ronaldo and Messi As World Best – Fabio Capello
Rooney is the best in the world- Beckham
Messi is the greatest player ever - Laporta
Messi is better than Maradona -Pedro Rodriguez
Roone the best in the world - Gerrard
Zidane hails Messi as world's greatest footballer
Berbatov hails Rooney as best in the world
Dani Alvez- Messi is the best player i've played with
just some quotes i wanted to add ;]
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God himself (aka Totti) has said Messi is the best player in the world.
Rooney is not a football genius. I simply cannot picture Rooney getting a huge standing ovation from the opposing fans after an away game due to a miraculously impressive performance. I've seen that for Ronaldinho and Totti.
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consider the importance of rooney to his team
consider the importance of messi to his team
one just has to look at the two midfields for it to be painfully obvious
considering that barcelona and united are of similar skill, i don't think that's it is unreasonable at all to say that rooney is comparable to messi.
arsenalgunners seem to be really upset that anyone would mention them in the same breath, but surely you must see that rooney has been carrying the 2nd strongest club in the world on his back.
i'm not trying to say that rooney is a better player, not at all, i think that messi is individually a more skilled player, but they ARE comparable and if rooney continues to improve at the rate he has this season, he may pass messi in the near future.
and please, can we stop talking about performances versus (a) shitty teams, or (b) in the past? leave that to the clueless pundits to circlejerk over, none of that matters in a discussion about the present best player in the world.
ah, i forgot my opinion is invalid because i'm canadian, apologies, sir
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Holgerious in your terms no player in the history of English football aside from Gascoigne has "it," which I understand as just flair. I don't know what you call the video I showed you. But even so I don't think that's what separates the best players. C.Ronaldo has never scored any goals close to Messi's individual dribbles, he certain has less of "it" than rooney, yet he was the consensual world's best. The "magical" moments you talk about, Rooney has had plenty btw.
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On March 23 2010 09:40 Holgerius wrote:
God himself (aka Totti) has said Messi is the best player in the world.
Rooney is not a football genius. I simply cannot picture Rooney getting a huge standing ovation from the opposing fans after an away game due to a miraculously impressive performance. I've seen that for Ronaldinho and Totti.
Rooney IS a football genius lol. He's the best player England has produced in the past 50 or so years. It's very weird you would have those criteria when judging who the world's best is. Since by your standards it seems no one on the Italian team can ever be considered phenomenal except maybe Cassano?
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Lol the who is the best player arguments are always funny because they always compare completely different players on different teams.
Remember the Ronaldo vs Zidane comparisons?
Ronaldo has the most goals in World Cups of all time. Yeah but...
Zidane won head to head in World Cup Final. Yeah but...
Ronaldo was able to come back from knee surgeries to dominate 2002. And Zidane choked under the pressure in the 2006 final! Oh yeah, what about Ronaldo in the 98 final? etc.
Messi/Rooney play different positions, for different teams, in different leagues. They are both top class.
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ah, i forgot my opinion is invalid because i'm canadian, apologies, sir
well you got me there, I really had fun reading comments from americans and canadians on soccer  .
But seriously, you have your point on how Rooney is carrying ManU on his back and the midfield of ManU which is not on par with Barcelonas. However I agree with Arnealgunners the most because you should not compare Rooney and Messi with each other (well you hardly can compare any players with each other). It all comes down to your individual taste whether you consider Rooney or Messi the better player.
What I'm saying is that you can't compare them on goals, on success, on importantance to their teams etc. alone, because of the different basis they have (PL vs Prim. Div. , Argentina vs England, Manchester vs Barcelona), I mean, how would you know how Messi would do in ManU and Rooney in Barcelona ? May be Messi would outshine Rooney as Ronaldo did it with him ? Therefore if you really want to compare players with each other you need a common basis by which you compare them.
Obviously the "world's best player" award is solely based on indicators that are blatantly choosed for Forwards and attacking Midfielders (which is understandable as the normal viewer measures a footballers skill and contribution by these indicators) , such as goals, WC success, dribbling/shooting skills etc,, for the normal viewers. Therefore I really would like to see the world's best player to be a defender or a defensive midfielder (or a goalie - but i guess then it will be redundant).
Anyways, as for this season, I'm really impressed by Rooney and hope that he doesn't score against my favourite team Bayern Munich . I guess it depends on this WC who will be the world's best football player. As for the issue of being a football legend, i think it is too early for both of them to being called like that considering Messi hasn't won a WC (-even though it is unfair to measure on things like these - poor Ronaldo), and Rooney just started to shine. However Messi is closer to that status as he has delivered for a couple of years now.
my opinion on:
Messi: WOW ! *as usual*
Rooney: WOW ! *surprised*
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On March 23 2010 10:20 eaT_Mi_Lquid wrote:well you got me there, I really had fun reading comments from americans and canadians on soccer . But seriously, you have your point on how Rooney is carrying ManU on his back and the midfield of ManU which is not on par with Barcelonas. However I agree with Arnealgunners the most because you should not compare Rooney and Messi with each other (well you hardly can compare any players with each other). It all comes down to your individual taste whether you consider Rooney or Messi the better player. What I'm saying is that you can't compare them on goals, on success, on importantance to their teams etc. alone, because of the different basis they have (PL vs Prim. Div. , Argentina vs England, Manchester vs Barcelona), I mean, how would you know how Messi would do in ManU and Rooney in Barcelona ? May be Messi would outshine Rooney as Ronaldo did it with him ? Therefore if you really want to compare players with each other you need a common basis by which you compare them. Obviously the "world's best player" award is solely based on indicators that are blatantly choosed for Forwards and attacking Midfielders (which is understandable as the normal viewer measures a footballers skill and contribution by these indicators) , such as goals, WC success, dribbling/shooting skills etc,, for the normal viewers. Therefore I really would like to see the world's best player to be a defender or a defensive midfielder (or a goalie - but i guess then it will be redundant). Anyways, as for this season, I'm really impressed by Rooney and hope that he doesn't score against my favourite team Bayern Munich . I guess it depends on this WC who will be the world's best football player. As for the issue of being a football legend, i think it is too early for both of them to being called like that considering Messi hasn't won a WC (-even though it is unfair to measure on things like these - poor Ronaldo), and Rooney just started to shine. However Messi is closer to that status as he has delivered for a couple of years now. my opinion on: Messi: WOW ! *as usual* Rooney: WOW ! *surprised*
it is a stupid argument but i was just amazed by arsenalgunner's outrage that someone would compare the two, so i thought i would comment.
and obviously individual skills or tallies aren't important, it's the contribution to club and country that should be used as a barometer between players
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Barca/Man U have completely different styles, Spanish football/English football are completely different, dribbling past 5 players and scoring is amazing and literally the only goal I remember from EPL in the past 5 years where one player dribbles 4-5 players from midfield before scoring is when Henry scored vs Liverpool in the last round a few years back. It certainly might be because no one has had dribbling ability close to Messi in EPL, but more so I think it means the style of play in EPL is different and defenses play much tighter and faster.
If you agree with the above, then there's no point saying Messi is a lot better than Rooney because of the way he scores goals, because it would then be simply a difference in footballing styles. Likewise there would be no point in measuring a player's greatness by his "flair", everyone knows Latin America/Spanish football cultures focus on individuality and creativity much more than other football cultures, especially England.
So if we can get past merely what pleases the eye, I think it is ridiculous say Messi is much better than Rooney and of course vice versa. Or rather it is ridiculous to have such a strong opinion one way or the other. I obviously don't care what kind of football you are attracted to, but I just don't believe it should be in any way the objective criteria in measuring the value of a player.
There are so many factors besides the "it" Holgerius talks about. When I read your posts Holgerius I keep thinking about how quickly people forget what Rooney was like when he first debuted in that he ONLY did absolutely amazing things and scored amazing goals but was super inconsistent. Now that he has changed for the better and actually scores goals normal strikers score now, people are so quickly to write him off as lacking the "magic" or whatever. It is simply untrue.
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well I guess football/sports is so attached to emotions so that it let people feel offended when someone has different opinions and keep them away of having a broader view . If i could i would just enjoy the play of Rooney and praise him with the greatest compliments, but of course as a Bayern fan i wish him the worst cuz he's facing us soon :D. hehe.
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They are most amazing I just don't like when people say Messi is so much better than Rooney or they can't be mentioned in the same sentence. Btw Rooney played terribly vs Chelsea this season and it's most likely Ancelotti praises him as mind game instead of actually admitting hes the best player.
Also to add further to what I said to Holgerius, even for someone like Robben, I'm sure everyone including me gets the feeling he could dribble past 5 players whenever he touches the ball and score a sensational goal more than rooney. That doesn't mean however that Robben is more SKILLED than Rooney, it's probably fair to say Robben is a better dribbler, but as I showed, Rooney can dribble past the entire French team with Thuram and Lizararu but his job at United is simply to pass the ball to wingers and get inside the box, if he ever tried to dribble 5 players Ferguson would probably bench him next game.
http://www.totalsportsmadness.com/2009/12/27/hull-manchester-united-1-3-highlights/
For the third United goal, not many in the world can play the pass Rooney played to Berbatov, that's what skill is imo.
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Zulu:
You are right; not a single english player throughout the history has had the necessary qualities to be a candidate for GOAT. They've had a lot of competent footballers, many of them world class, but Beckham is no Ronaldinho, Lampard is no Zidane, Shearer was no Ronaldo (real one).
Rooney is not a genius. Describe what about him that makes you consider him unique enough to be given that epithet. Seriously, Rooney is an amazing player, but if you want to reach the status of players like Zidane and Maradona you're gonna have to be equipped with skills enough to basically win a WC on your own. Messi has that potential. Rooney does not.
You are also correct the current italian team; Italy has, at least not in the offensive department, no contender for best player in the world. They lack a trequartista, a genius, that magical player who can create chances out of nothing or score impossible goals. They used to have Totti, before that Di Baggio. Now, nothing. Sad but true. If Italy are to win the WC this year it's gonna have to be a collective effort (read; defensive turtling). No offensive italian player is even close to a Ballon d'Or.
And ''it'' doesn't mean just having flair and doing step overs, if that's how you interpreted it. Xavi has ''it''. He has a unique vision that cannot be replicated by anyone no matter how hard one might practise and work for it. Cannavaro had ''it'', with his incomparable defensive abilities and leadership. Rooney is just a fucking good player. Hard working and overall very competent, but not unique enough to be put in the same category as a player like Messi.
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EPT
