EPT2009-2010 football (soccer) thread - Page 104
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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AngryLlama
United States1227 Posts
![[image loading]](http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/50/l_62bc2ae1b5893833403d5750c5c1d333.jpg) i will :D | ||
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28677 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
There's no way anyone could argue that he isn't by far the best in the world right now (Rooney has been hot and all but he is still far behind). But ya; if he wants to be the GOAT he needs to step it up in the national team. It's pretty much impossible to reach the status of a true legend without having won the WC (exceptions can of course be made, but it takes something really extaordinary). If Messi can just win the WC I think he will be a strong candidate to go down in the history books as one of the serious GOAT candidates along with legends such as Pele, Maradona, Zidane and Ronaldo. And Totti (  ). And ya, he needs to keep it up for a couple of years. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Sadir
Vatican City State1176 Posts
what the fuck? I can somehow understand that you are hardcore ManU fans and that you love Rooney and that you hate messi.... but making such a comment, is just O_o for me, you guys just all your credibility you have built up over time that's bigass bias and has nothing to do with reality if you want to state that Rooney overall is close to Messi, that's ok for me (even though I don't think so), but there you have room to make your point, because there are some things that Rooney is better than Messi and for Messi becoming a legend, he really has to win at least one WC and that will be really tough, even though he is lucky to have such a good squad as Argentinia has CR9 (haha that name is so fucking stupid) only has Portugal, who are not bad, but don't have the class Argentinia has the only real legend that didn't win a WC is most likely Johan Cruyff (maybe I forgot one) | ||
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hyomin godtier
Canada367 Posts
UbRi wrote: -"He (Messi) is a player who plays well, scores goal but doesn't contribute to the teamplay" Kidd wrote: "Rooney can ping a 40 yard ball across field right to someones foot within a half second of seeing them. I'm pretty sure Messi is a little better of a dribbler though" SuperArc wrote: "As long as Messi doesn't win anything with Argentina no one will remember him in 15 years." zulu_nation8 wrote: "no one will remember C.Ronaldo in 15 years" EDIT: I checked back to see where the people who are making sensible comments are from: Peru, Sweden, Norway, Mexico, Hondures, It says Canada for me but I was born in Bosnia grew up in Germany. Its not a surprise that these people dont put Rooney close to Messi since they are from places where we play football and where football is part of our culture, like hockey in Canada and American Football in the U.S. | ||
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AngryLlama
United States1227 Posts
On March 23 2010 06:10 zulu_nation8 wrote: Rooney has scored more goals in the league AND overall than Messi this season, Rooney has Carrick/Fletcher/Scholes playing behind him and Valencia/Nani delivering crosses. The EPL has stronger teams aside from the top 2 compared to La Liga. All of you saying Messi is best by far, what are you talking about? Have you even seen Rooney play this season? He can bash lower level clubs too, He scored 4 goals vs Portsmouth. Yes, i have seen rooney play this season and like i said before, he is amazing. regardless, i still believe messi to be a far more valueable player than rooney, sorry to say. (as much as i love rooney, i cant say this enough) and actually, messi has more goals than rooney, by one. messi = 34 goals and rooney = 33 goals. I dont get your point of bringing up the man u players? And what do you mean he can bash lower level clubs too? as if someone was saying that messi could only score against weaker teams or something? i dont really get it. | ||
Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
On March 23 2010 05:23 zulu_nation8 wrote: wat Rooney dribbled the entire French squad in Euro 2004 and won a penalty, he never makes messi like runs because he has to pass and distribute the ball. What Messi did is great but it was vs getafe and zaragoza. When United went to Nou Camp three years, Messi couldn't do anything vs Evra, of course Messi is a much better player now. Considering that I consider Evra one of the best left backs in the world, I'd say that's just more credit to Evra on a good day than a bash on Messi. It's like the same thing when fullbacks get beat by guys like Drogba or Torres - you can't say the full back sucks because if the striker really is as good as the hype says he is, he should beat even the best defenders occasionally and score. Same with the best defenders - if they truly are the best, they should be able to shut down world class attackers completely on a good day. | ||
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hyomin godtier
Canada367 Posts
On March 23 2010 05:23 zulu_nation8 wrote: wat Rooney dribbled the entire French squad in Euro 2004 and won a penalty, he never makes messi like runs because he has to pass and distribute the ball. What Messi did is great but it was vs getafe and zaragoza. When United went to Nou Camp three years, Messi couldn't do anything vs Evra, of course Messi is a much better player now. this is the part of the analogy where I said Rooney is like a point guard who gets 2 dunks a season notice u brought up a run he made 6 years ago when Messi makes 2-3 like that EVEYR FUCKING GAME!! vs. getafe and zaragoza? lets compare rooney and messi in champions league then where they play similar compeition, KK? Messi: 21 goals in 42 games the first 13 games only 2 goals u know when he was a 17, 18 year old kid, kinda understandable Rooney: 20 goals in 52 games Lets not forget one of them plays as striker the other plays as a winger. | ||
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AngryLlama
United States1227 Posts
edit: i'm referring to zulus post about evra shutting down messi for one game years ago. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
Rooney has been awesome, but he's still a mere mortal in comparison; scoring plenty of goals on penalties and normal tap-ins. There's nothing wrong with that, but as an individual player Messi is lightyears ahead. He has the ability to literally win games on his own with his dream goals, has 10 assists in La Liga as well, and he is very much able to perform in important games vs big teams. Messi is 100% the best offensive player in the world right now. Still, no WC gold = no GOAT. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
Rooney never scored a lot before this season when he changed roles, so bringing up stats from the past is irrelevant since we're talking about right now. And of course not every game in Champion's league is an important game obviously. In La Liga there are basically no hard games for Barca besides El Classicos, in premiership the competition is better. Not to mention Rooney has done way more for England this season than Messi has for Argentina. But that's beside the point. You can think whatever you want but just realize having the ID Arsenalgunners and coming to a forum to do nothing but bash Man Utd is pretty fucking annoying. It's like if I made the ID Warcraft3playa and coming to TL to write long articles about why the graphics in WC3 are better. No one really cares about the "validity" of your arguments. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
This is the run in Euro 2004. He was 16 back then playing in his first major international competition. The game was pretty even with England up 1-0, Rooney first lobs Thuram and then dribbles past Silvestre + Lizararu to win a penalty, sure he didn't finish but you get the point. @ 5min mark etc. If you watch both EPL and La Liga it should be pretty obvious the defense in EPL is a lot tougher than in La Liga. Messi's goals were really great but the individual efforts where he dribbles from midfield to score, that would probably never happen in EPL vs any team. No one in the world can dribble at the speed Messi does and turn, but again, to do it vs Zaragoza and Valencia does not mean he's all of a sudden best offensive player in the world. Yes that was only one game vs Evra, but I can't recall Messi dribbling past anyone for more than 10 yards in the four games vs Man U from last two years. The goal he scored was a header. Barca destroyed United last year because they had more quality overall. The two years before that United did. | ||
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UdderChaos
United Kingdom707 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:40 zulu_nation8 wrote: I like both players and I think they are both pretty close in value as football players. I just don't like when people say Messi is far better than Rooney. Arsenalgunners your comments are pretty fucking hilarious too. I guess because I'm not from a place that's good at football, my opinions are gonna be worthless. How about because you're an Arsenal fan, your opinions regarding any man U players are fucking worthless too? I think that makes more sense than comparing the football cultures of where everyone grew up? Rooney never scored a lot before this season when he changed roles, so bringing up stats from the past is irrelevant since we're talking about right now. And of course not every game in Champion's league is an important game obviously. In La Liga there are basically no hard games for Barca besides El Classicos, in premiership the competition is better. Not to mention Rooney has done way more for England this season than Messi has for Argentina. But that's beside the point. You can think whatever you want but just realize having the ID Arsenalgunners and coming to a forum to do nothing but bash Man Utd is pretty fucking annoying. It's like if I made the ID Warcraft3playa and coming to TL to write long articles about why the graphics in WC3 are better. No one really cares about the "validity" of your arguments. Although harshly said i have to agree, it's just infuriating that a person with their name as arsenal gunners is not surprising bashing rooney and harping on about messi being on another level, hes not. La Liga is a much easier league than EPL also messi tries to make amazing runs every time he gets the ball, just watch him play, often he looses the ball after trying to go past 1 player too many, or goes past 2-3players and then misses the goal/it's saved, not that he isn't amazing but it takes a bit of the magic out of it when he tries to do it all the time. And also La Liga is not as phsyical a game either. So there's three reasons why messi's amazing youtube highlights that everyone drools at needs to be take with a pinch of salt. Now for rooney. I think people mainly underrate him because his football is not as eye pleasing as the likes of messi and ron. He tends to score when it matters rather than be bothered about it looking beautiful, although he can score amazing goals when he needs to. But the point someone was making earlier was pretty valid, i mean how can you say drogba is on par if not better than rooney? i mean you have to be trolling there. Don't get me wrong drogba is on the same level as rooney, but hes not as good at the moment for two reasons, one hes not scoring as many goals, and two hes got fucking Ashley Cole, Essien, Carvalho, Lampard, J.Cole, Ballack and John terry(what a twat) behind him. Now look at rooney, the three other utd world class players apart from him are vidic, rio and evra, which are all defenders, although admitdly he gets the occasional ball from evra, but rio and vdic's strength is defending not being offensive defenders, although they can produce that when they need to(what makes them world class). So who has he got in the terms of mid field? valancia, thats about it, who is very good, but not world class, the rest of the united wing/midfield is shit, and just because park and scholes scores the odd goal here and there doesn't take away from the fact they are pretty dreadful in comparison with Chelsea mid-field/attacking defense. At the moment i would say messi is the best player in the world, but i would also say rooney is hot on his heels this season and to say hes not even close is just blind fanboy hate, i mean all the papers, managers, commentators and presenters are saying that rooney is one of the best in the world, and for ArsenalGunners I expect in the coming weeks, if not already, there will be a quote from wenger saying rooney is one of the best in the world too if he is asked on the subject. | ||
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hyomin godtier
Canada367 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:55 Holgerius wrote: Rooney is a conventional football player. A really fucking good one, yes, but he still seems like a human being. Messi however is a living highlight reel. He stands out as an individual player in a way no one has done since Maradona. He makes football, intended to be a teamgame, into an individual sport. If I understand what you mean you seem to imply that Rooney is just a robot who scores team goals. That's what Ronaldo is, out of Ronaldo's 42 goals last season none were great individual efforts. Rooney however has the extra flair Ronaldo probably doesn't have, although I do remember Ronaldo's goal vs Porto last season. As a 16 year old in his first premiership appearance, Rooney scored this goal at the 90th minute vs an undefeated Arsenal side, their goalkeeper was the England goalkeeper. He's scored important goals like this several times in his career for club and England. If you call anything extraordinary and immortal, or at least if you wanna call dribbling past 4 Zaragoza defenders extraordinary, you have to include this. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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