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On March 22 2010 15:07 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Look man I don't think Arsenal is overrated and I like watching Fabregas play, that was just an example. I also don't think it's "a joke" to call Rooney the best or one of the best players in the world even with Messi's form right now. I just don't like opposing supporters bashing rival sides and trying to come up with a bunch of reasons to justify themselves. If you just said, United sucks Arsenal #1, then that would be fine, you love Arsenal and dislike United. However don't go around explaining in detail your reasons for why exactly United sucks and Arsenal is #1, no one wants to hear that shit, I can come up with a million reasons why your reasoning is shitty, there's no fun in it, it's obvious you just dislike United, and that's fine. You're an Arsenal supporter, it's normal.
It would be nice if people can discuss football without blatantly relying on their loyalties. I dislike every player on Chelsea but not to the point that I can't even have a civil conversation with a Chelsea supporter regarding the skill level of their players.
Agree with almost everything you say, except that Rooney being best player in the world is still a joke when we have Messi. We dont really have to debate over this lets just wait for when the votes for european and world player of the year come in. Like you said no one would want to hear why I think United is over rated, I just stated that a bunch of players are over rated offering no reasons whatsover cause like you said its pointless! Even though im an Arsenal supporter im still objective, we are not the best club in the world and we are under dogs in our champions league match against Barcelona. You took offense to my comments because your are "blatently relying on your loyalties". Why cant we just have civil conversations without loyal supporters jumping at the throats of any poster who makes negative yet valid remarks regarding their club.
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In english football as long as the player touch the ball first 90% there is no foul, unless he go through really hard.
United didn't play the way they wanted yesterday because benitez is a master tactician in europe, ferguson asked his players to play safe with a slow pace. Obviously he came here to hold the scoreline and try to punish United. Berbatov was dropped to be replaced by Park and both Fletcher and Vidic was told to man mark Gerrard and Torres. As far as i see United played well because the players, fletcher&park harrying their players, stuck to their roles very well maybe the exception of once or twice. Its useless to go all out against lvp due to their strong defense and break. In the end United still did gambled more albeit carefully to push men up.
I don't see Chelsea and Liverpool gambling to get crucial goals thats the reason why they cannot get lots of silverware, playing a perfect soccer game w/o x-factor is not enough. United were never as good tactically as Mourinho or Benitez but sure they always get players that have flair.
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United States1227 Posts
MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI
sorry i have nothing ever constructive to say 
but damn, i got home from being out yesterday, eagerly awaiting to see watch the barca game that i recorded and WTF do you know? MESSI HAT TRICK AGAIN :D:D:D god i love that guy. such a great demeanor, such a great team, such class, such team involvement, such team fluidity, such love, such passion and trust for each other. Messi is such a model for humility and talent. no other player in the world even comes close imo. this team has seriously got it all. its electrifying to watch these guys play together. the chemistry they have together is incredible. im just sad that im not rich and i cant go watch them during this time in history.
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Watching Barca IRL is awesome. I went down to Barcelona and watched them play vs Sevilla last year. They completely trashed them 4-0. :D Unfortunately they decided it would be a good idea to keep Messi on the bench.  Bastards. Got to see Iniesta shine though (2 assist and 1 goal if I remember correctly).
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On March 23 2010 01:46 AngryLlama wrote:MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI sorry i have nothing ever constructive to say but damn, i got home from being out yesterday, eagerly awaiting to see watch the barca game that i recorded and WTF do you know? MESSI HAT TRICK AGAIN :D:D:D god i love that guy. such a great demeanor, such a great team, such class, such team involvement, such team fluidity, such love, such passion and trust for each other. Messi is such a model for humility and talent. no other player in the world even comes close imo. this team has seriously got it all. its electrifying to watch these guys play together. the chemistry they have together is incredible. im just sad that im not rich and i cant go watch them during this time in history.
While I agree with Messi being arguably one of the best players in Spain right now he is another type of player who basically underperforms for his country. Having a Argentinian girlfriend has awarded me with being able to watch every single Argentina qualifier for the world cup. One of the major things i've noticed is that Messi is basically transparent in most of those games. Messi is a player that totally reminds me of Henry when he was at Arsenal. Henry was at one point named the best player in the world at his prime in Arsenal. There was alot of pressure on him to be the star of France and, like Messi, basically was just average.
Messi is a great player and i'm not arguing that but I do think that he needs to get a little older before he can be the leader of his country as well as his club. Messi's form at Barcelona is quite excellent currently but if you watch his games for his country you will see him continually lose the ball and make bad passes.
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Ok I watched the extended highlights of the Liverpool game. It was not a penalty, Valencia was clearly looking for the foul but that still doesn't excuse Mascherano for tugging on Valenca's shirt like an idiot. I mean that I don't think there even should've been a foul, not that the foul was outside of the box instead of inside. Howard Webb didn't give anything in the Liverpool/Arsenal game he called so it's very weird he would change his judgment completely. However Liverpool had their chances in the end but couldn't take them. Insua is just fucking terrible. I remember watching him get owned by Reading and thinking this guy's defense is literally League One level and whatever offensive skills he has doesn't matter cuz he's always out of position and having to sprint back somewhere.
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On March 23 2010 02:06 kidd wrote:
Messi is a great player and i'm not arguing that but I do think that he needs to get a little older before he can be the leader of his country as well as his club. Messi's form at Barcelona is quite excellent currently but if you watch his games for his country you will see him continually lose the ball and make bad passes.
Bit like Lampard and Gerrard for the last n years
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it's not untill only this recent matches that messi has reached this top form, right now he's out of comparison with any other player, BUT:
-Only now, he's been "average" (read just top notch) untill now this season, there are much more consistent player, like for example c.ronaldo, drogba, rooney.
-He is a player who plays well, scores goal but doesn't contribute to the teamplay, when you see him doing an assist it's just because he just did something amazing on his own before, or just because the assist itself is a goddamn strike of genius. There are players who play well and MAKE ppl play well, like Iniesta, Rooney, Sneijder (all English and Dutch players tend to be great team players) or all Barcellona's midfield. Ofcourse for a midfielder it's easier to be a great teamplayer than for a striker, who has to be egoistic at times, and I'm in no way accusing Messi of being too individualistic, he's perfect for the role he has, just wanted to say that when he's not in top form he's not that useful with his passing, off the ball movements and overall teamplay
For these two reason I just want to say that right now Messi is stratospheric, and if he keeps playing like this for a couple of season he can already be considered a legend, but I think there's plenty of other amazing players around who are doing really well, and that if they had been playing in other ages they would be good candidates for balon d'or award. I'm mainly referring to C.Ronaldo, Iniesta and Rooney
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It's way too early to start talking about Ballon d'Or. Remember that there's a WC coming up...
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United States1227 Posts
On March 23 2010 02:26 UbRi wrote:
-He is a player who plays well, scores goal but doesn't contribute to the teamplay, when you see him doing an assist it's just because he just did something amazing on his own before, or just because the assist itself is a goddamn strike of genius.
This is just not true about messi. He is a ridiculous team player. So many times hes set up other players with simple passes alongside the occasional genius run. He integrates perfectly with barcelona style. in fact, thats what i love about him most, that he doesnt need to dribble all the time like he does, and hes always looking for the best play for the team. Just so happens he has the skill necassary to make the amazing run that every player would make if they could.
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On March 23 2010 04:01 AngryLlama wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 02:26 UbRi wrote:
-He is a player who plays well, scores goal but doesn't contribute to the teamplay, when you see him doing an assist it's just because he just did something amazing on his own before, or just because the assist itself is a goddamn strike of genius. This is just not true about messi. He is a ridiculous team player. So many times hes set up other players with simple passes alongside the occasional genius run. He integrates perfectly with barcelona style. in fact, thats what i love about him most, that he doesnt need to dribble all the time like he does, and hes always looking for the best play for the team. Just so happens he has the skill necassary to make the amazing run that every player would make if they could.
Messi can do it but hes not as good of a passer of the ball as Rooney. Rooney can ping a 40 yard ball across field right to someones foot within a half second of seeing them. I'm pretty sure Messi is a little better of a dribbler though and they both kind of have the same shooting style that is strongly placement oriented. They are both pretty equal in my opinion maybe with Rooney being a little better all around and Messi being better at, well, being Messi.
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Are you serious, does not contribute to team play? Dude in yesterdays game everytime Barca got into the oposing half of the field it was through Messi. He set up 5-6 good chances for his teammates everytime he touched the ball something developed because he draws defenders and frees up his teammates. When Messi isnot on the field Barca isn't the same team the ball dosent move the same, they don't create the same chances or attack at the same speed. Every game Messi subbed in this season sparked Barcs to where they suddenly become unstopable and usually score within minutes of him bring on the field. I'm not exaggerating either it's happend at least 5 times this season. Messi raises Barcas team play to a level that's above and beyond any club in the world, which is why last year they had the most goals for in the history of la liga, including pre offside rules! What?? So like as tempted Iam to insult you because of how disgusted iam at that comment I'll just state that your dead wrong.
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On March 23 2010 04:40 ArsenalGunners wrote:
Are you serious, does not contribute to team play? Dude in yesterdays game everytime Barca got into the oposing half of the field it was through Messi. He set up 5-6 good chances for his teammates everytime he touched the ball something developed because he draws defenders and frees up his teammates. When Messi isnot on the field Barca isn't the same team the ball dosent move the same, they don't create the same chances or attack at the same speed. Every game Messi subbed in this season sparked Barcs to where they suddenly become unstopable and usually score within minutes of him bring on the field. I'm not exaggerating either it's happend at least 5 times this season. Messi raises Barcas team play to a level that's above and beyond any club in the world, which is why last year they had the most goals for in the history of la liga, including pre offside rules! What?? So like as tempted Iam to insult you because of how disgusted iam at that comment I'll just state that your dead wrong.
You should actually start quoting people you are actually talking to. It is pretty annoying trying to figure out what your talking about and who you are arguing with when you never quote.
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On March 23 2010 04:34 kidd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 04:01 AngryLlama wrote:On March 23 2010 02:26 UbRi wrote:
-He is a player who plays well, scores goal but doesn't contribute to the teamplay, when you see him doing an assist it's just because he just did something amazing on his own before, or just because the assist itself is a goddamn strike of genius. This is just not true about messi. He is a ridiculous team player. So many times hes set up other players with simple passes alongside the occasional genius run. He integrates perfectly with barcelona style. in fact, thats what i love about him most, that he doesnt need to dribble all the time like he does, and hes always looking for the best play for the team. Just so happens he has the skill necassary to make the amazing run that every player would make if they could. Messi can do it but hes not as good of a passer of the ball as Rooney. Rooney can ping a 40 yard ball across field right to someones foot within a half second of seeing them. I'm pretty sure Messi is a little better of a dribbler though and they both kind of have the same shooting style that is strongly placement oriented. They are both pretty equal in my opinion maybe with Rooney being a little better all around and Messi being better at, well, being Messi.
Wait you to? Are you guys just casual observers of the game? You say Messis dribbling is slightly better then rooneys. Let me explain this with baskeball analogy. I'f deaking players was like dunking in basketball Messi would be like Vince Carter, MJ or LJ take ur pick and Rooney would be like any point guard who gets like 2 dunks a season. The way Messi goes around people can only be compared to Maradona, do you understand the difference in quickness between the two? how glued the fucking ball is to Messi's feet? Seriously I know there's a lot of guys here who play soccer and trully follow and understand it to the point to know how fucking different their dribbling abilities are. Saying Messi is a slightly better dribbler is like saying Bisu is slightly better then the Rock.
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As long as Messi doesn't perform for his country I won't consider him the world's best. Same with C. Ronaldo.
World Cups count, not CLs. As long as Messi doesn't win anything with Argentina no one will remember him in 15 years.
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Norway28677 Posts
ya really
I think rooney is overall pretty close to messi's level. (but messi in shape is the best exactly because he is the kind of player who can beat a team on his own.. this is what really constitutes the legendary player more than anything else. )
however if you compare their dribbling abilities it's not even close, messi is at least several levels above rooney and at least a level above anybody else in the world. just like rooney is a way better aerial player.. (even if messi did score a header last game:p )
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wat Rooney dribbled the entire French squad in Euro 2004 and won a penalty, he never makes messi like runs because he has to pass and distribute the ball. What Messi did is great but it was vs getafe and zaragoza. When United went to Nou Camp three years, Messi couldn't do anything vs Evra, of course Messi is a much better player now.
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United States1227 Posts
On March 23 2010 04:34 kidd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2010 04:01 AngryLlama wrote:On March 23 2010 02:26 UbRi wrote:
-He is a player who plays well, scores goal but doesn't contribute to the teamplay, when you see him doing an assist it's just because he just did something amazing on his own before, or just because the assist itself is a goddamn strike of genius. This is just not true about messi. He is a ridiculous team player. So many times hes set up other players with simple passes alongside the occasional genius run. He integrates perfectly with barcelona style. in fact, thats what i love about him most, that he doesnt need to dribble all the time like he does, and hes always looking for the best play for the team. Just so happens he has the skill necassary to make the amazing run that every player would make if they could. Messi can do it but hes not as good of a passer of the ball as Rooney. Rooney can ping a 40 yard ball across field right to someones foot within a half second of seeing them. I'm pretty sure Messi is a little better of a dribbler though and they both kind of have the same shooting style that is strongly placement oriented. They are both pretty equal in my opinion maybe with Rooney being a little better all around and Messi being better at, well, being Messi.
I don't agree with this at all. I have been keeping up mostly with Barca, but also watching Man u. and don't get me wrong, i absolutely adore rooney but to even hint that he is at the same skill level as messi is extremely questionable in my eyes. You pretty much just said to me "messi can do everything you said which is amazing, but hey, he can play long balls" which doesnt really make sense to me. And messi is FAAAAAAAAAAR better dribbler (Obviously i thought? o.O) than rooney. That's sort of laughable. You also said they both have similar shooting styles which are focused more on placement than power i guess. I don't know, maybe, but they score totally different types of goals. Rooney is a beast and is extremely fast and skilled and powerful. He plays defense and is a one man army, playing beautiful balls and making stunning shots. Messi is an overall quick passer / dribbler. he is also extremely creative (not in a flashy way) and obviously amazingly quick with the ball at his feet. Also, like rooney, is a team player.
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On March 23 2010 05:02 SuperArc wrote:
As long as Messi doesn't perform for his country I won't consider him the world's best. Same with C. Ronaldo.
World Cups count, not CLs. As long as Messi doesn't win anything with Argentina no one will remember him in 15 years.
and C.Ronaldo does what with his NT? lol
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United States1227 Posts
On March 23 2010 05:02 SuperArc wrote:
As long as Messi doesn't perform for his country I won't consider him the world's best. Same with C. Ronaldo.
World Cups count, not CLs. As long as Messi doesn't win anything with Argentina no one will remember him in 15 years.
I don't understand this mentality to be honest. World cups count, CLs dont? So the games that probably have more talent and skill don't count? I understand that the WC is amazing and i love it because it has country pride and what not, but to say that if a player doesn't play well with his country (for whatever reasons it may be) , he cannot be considered in your eyes for the worlds best is crazy man. have you ever watched messi play?
and i guarantee you a player like messi will be remembered in 15 years regardless of his national results.
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EPT
