2009-2010 football (soccer) thread - Page 106

On March 23 2010 10:33 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Barca/Man U have completely different styles, Spanish football/English football are completely different, dribbling past 5 players and scoring is amazing and literally the only goal I remember from EPL in the past 5 years where one player dribbles 4-5 players from midfield before scoring is when Henry scored vs Liverpool in the last round a few years back. It certainly might be because no one has had dribbling ability close to Messi in EPL, but more so I think it means the style of play in EPL is different and defenses play much tighter and faster.

If you agree with the above, then there's no point saying Messi is a lot better than Rooney because of the way he scores goals, because it would then be simply a difference in footballing styles. Likewise there would be no point in measuring a player's greatness by his "flair", everyone knows Latin America/Spanish football cultures focus on individuality and creativity much more than other football cultures, especially England.

So if we can get past merely what pleases the eye, I think it is ridiculous say Messi is much better than Rooney and of course vice versa. Or rather it is ridiculous to have such a strong opinion one way or the other. I obviously don't care what kind of football you are attracted to, but I just don't believe it should be in any way the objective criteria in measuring the value of a player.

There are so many factors besides the "it" Holgerius talks about. When I read your posts Holgerius I keep thinking about how quickly people forget what Rooney was like when he first debuted in that he ONLY did absolutely amazing things and scored amazing goals but was super inconsistent. Now that he has changed for the better and actually scores goals normal strikers score now, people are so quickly to write him off as lacking the "magic" or whatever. It is simply untrue.

On March 23 2010 06:50 ArsenalGunners wrote:
Below are comments made by people who supposedly follow football, apart from making me laugh they also have me questioning the purpose of this thread and why it just isnt closed down if people are gonna make these kinds of remarks. Both Messi and Ronaldo have already!!!!!!!!! been named as some of the best players of all time by some of the best players of all time!!!!!!!! and they didnt even hit their prime yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UbRi wrote:
-"He (Messi) is a player who plays well, scores goal but doesn't contribute to the teamplay"

Kidd wrote:
"Rooney can ping a 40 yard ball across field right to someones foot within a half second of seeing them. I'm pretty sure Messi is a little better of a dribbler though"


SuperArc wrote:
"As long as Messi doesn't win anything with Argentina no one will remember him in 15 years."

zulu_nation8 wrote:
"no one will remember C.Ronaldo in 15 years"


EDIT: I checked back to see where the people who are making sensible comments are from: Peru, Sweden, Norway, Mexico, Hondures, It says Canada for me but I was born in Bosnia grew up in Germany. Its not a surprise that these people dont put Rooney close to Messi since they are from places where we play football and where football is part of our culture, like hockey in Canada and American Football in the U.S.

On March 23 2010 11:15 Holgerius wrote:
You are right; not a single english player throughout the history has had the necessary qualities to be a candidate for GOAT. They've had a lot of competent footballers, many of them world class, but Beckham is no Ronaldinho, Lampard is no Zidane, Shearer was no Ronaldo (real one).

On March 23 2010 20:40 FireBlast! wrote:
My 2 cents on the Rooney vs Messi debate:

There is no doubt Messi is head and shoulders above everyone else right now, even Rooney. IMO, Messi is actually "underrated" because almost EVERY ONE of his goals, actions, touches, dribbles is perfect but now everyone's got so used to his breathtaking style of play it's become expected. The only thing Messi lacks is age. For me the only way for Messi to be a "better" player is if he moves to the EPL and proves himself in a different football culture, as well as playing with other teams that dont have players like Xavi and Iniesta. I want to see Messi tested, and whats more, I want to see him overcome these challenges. The great players moved from league to league, team to team and performed as if nothing happened (Zizou, Maradona, Cruyff) I feel this is a sure sign of a player that will transcend time. Although you may argue they are plaudible for their loyalty, there are many that dont make the "final cut" because they lack this cosmopolitanism. (*cough* Totti *cough*) And maybe Rooney will be another also, confined to their culture of football.

Messi is better than Rooney right now, only a handful would argue against this. Also however, Rooney is the only player close enough to Messi to spark debate. This is a testament to both players.

How can people compare two very different players playing for two very different teams in two very different leagues? The answer: because Messi is clearly THAT good.

On March 23 2010 10:07 zerglingsfolife wrote:
Lol the who is the best player arguments are always funny because they always compare completely different players on different teams.

Remember the Ronaldo vs Zidane comparisons?
Ronaldo has the most goals in World Cups of all time. Yeah but...
Zidane won head to head in World Cup Final. Yeah but...
Ronaldo was able to come back from knee surgeries to dominate 2002. And Zidane choked under the pressure in the 2006 final! Oh yeah, what about Ronaldo in the 98 final? etc.

Messi/Rooney play different positions, for different teams, in different leagues. They are both top class.

On March 24 2010 00:08 economist_ wrote:


After Zizou, Messi is the only player that I expect to become such a legend. Sorry but Rooney is just like C.Ronaldo and they represent the English football skills. I am not saying they are not good but becoming a legend? definitely no. and in my eyes, EPL has still been overrated even with the current dominance in CL

Though I agree that you have to test yourself in a different environment somewhere else and still maintain your great performance to become that great, this kind of argument is so in the past. I think it was popular back in the days where SerieA was like ultimate battle field to become the greatest. Zidane and Ronaldo were the most outstanding players that featured that trend. I think this concept is not the proof anymore. Applying this concept today, assuming EPL is the best league and expect player like Deco who is the most notable is just so outdated. Not sure why though.

I would love to see Messi play for Barca with Xavi and Iniesta and personally I dont see why being the greatest among the greatest is counted less than among no name players.

On March 24 2010 01:26 AngryLlama wrote:
I really don't get the hype about players needing to win a world cup to reach legendary status. is his football skill not enough? he has to be reliant on his country's skill / national situation as well? Ill always remember individual players and it doesn't matter about the world cups really. If i watch a player completely own league games 80 games a year and then they miss 8 games in a tournament that happens once every 4 years, then that's not really going to matter all that much. at least to me it doesn't. i must admit though, if that same player was to be able to to do something big at the world cup, then yes it is magical.