Im not going to quote this because more then one idiot has been saying it. The only reason I was arguing in the Messi/Rooney debate was because an idiot brought up as Rooney the best player in the World. This debate should not exist. It is between Messi and C. Ronaldo. 2008 Ronaldo was voted as the worlds best player and Messi finished second in 2009 they switched around. Now its 2010, Messi is playing better then last year, C. Ronaldo has missed some games due to injury and his team is out of champions league but if you watch the games hes raping even more at Madrid because there's like 5 other world class attacking players the defense has to watch on that team. Then some fucking genious decided to throw in Rooney's name why? because he all of a sudden started scoring goals? how the fuck is rooney a different player this year then any other previous year at Man U? the only difference is goal production and thats all great for a striker but it dosent put him any closer to the two guys I mentioned. When C. Ronaldo was at Man U, Rooney was an after thought it was C. Ronaldo's team and he was always their best player. At the champions league final I remember the weeks leading up to the game everyone kept saying its the clash of Ronaldo/Messi and in the game those 2 players stood out. It was C. Ronaldo early who had a few chances for Man U and Messi who won the game for Barca. Now we find ourselfs less then a year later those 2 players are still towering above the rest except Rooney has been scoring a lot more and that makes him of the same caliber? Last year people were so high on Ibrahimoic (scored 30 for Inter) and Eto (scored 35 for Barca) now a year later they arent scoring and what they are not of the same quality? What if Rooney scores 15 next season? People need to draw a distinction between goal scoring and a players ability and overall impact. Sometimes a striker is world class goal scorer like Van Nistlerooy and the purest goal scorer of them all Raul but they are no where near the class of the Real Ronaldo who was as prolific of a goal scorer but had the raw burst of speed and agility similar to C. Ronaldo and Messi.
If someone gave you 2 columns A: Ronaldo, C. Ronaldo, Messi, Zidane, Ronaldinho B: Raul, Van Nistelrooy, Shevckenko, Drogba, Henry
You can go find hours of clips of footage on youtube on these players and those in column A will have a lot of similar clips and the same goes for the guys in B. Then decide for yourself based on the footage of Rooney alone what column he should go into.
Then go google fifa world player of the year and see how many times a guy in column A won and how many times a guy in colum B won.
Edit: I'll save you some time its 10 for A and 0 for B
I think it comes down to one word: Form. Strikers, more than any other position are extreamly form dependant. If they doubt themselves even a little their performances (almost always measured by their goals) will suffer. Both Messi and C. Ronaldo are wingers. They have different roles to Rooney. Rooney performances, as I stated before is measured by goals. Messi or Ronaldo don't nescerily have to score to put on a 'good' performance. They may just put in some nice passes/crosses/runs. Goals for them are a bonus.
From a neutral standpoint, (as your name sugests you are not) Rooney IS one of the best players in the World right now. In the top 5 for sure. He has steped up upon C. Ronaldo's departure and is brimming with confindance. He has a very good eye for goal lately and is extreamly dangerous right now.
On March 24 2010 12:20 Tharros wrote: I think it comes down to one word: Form. Strikers, more than any other position are extreamly form dependant. If they doubt themselves even a little their performances (almost always measured by their goals) will suffer. Both Messi and C. Ronaldo are wingers. They have different roles to Rooney. Rooney performances, as I stated before is measured by goals. Messi or Ronaldo don't nescerily have to score to put on a 'good' performance. They may just put in some nice passes/crosses/runs. Goals for them are a bonus.
From a neutral standpoint, (as your name sugests you are not) Rooney IS one of the best players in the World right now. In the top 5 for sure. He has steped up upon C. Ronaldo's departure and is brimming with confindance. He has a very good eye for goal lately and is extreamly dangerous right now.
lol the debate for the top 5 players will include to many people the debate u dodged in your reply is whether or not Roony is the best player in the world. I make an argument that he’s a goal scorer and his skill set is no where near to that of Messy and C. Ronaldo who the debate should be about. The guys in column A have one pure striker like Rooney in Ronaldo. He was also the best player because he had a similar skill set to the rest of the guys in the column.
So what column do you put Rooney in?
You say in your post:
"I think it comes down to one word: Form. Strikers, more than any other position are extremely form dependant. If they doubt themselves even a little their performances (almost always measured by their goals) will suffer". Messi or Ronaldo don't nescerily have to score to put on a 'good' performance. They may just put in some nice passes/crosses/runs. Goals for them are a bonus."
I said in previous post:
People need to draw a distinction between goal scoring and a players ability and overall impact. Sometimes a striker is world class goal scorer like Van Nistlerooy and the purest goal scorer of them all Raul but they are no where near the class of the Real Ronaldo You didnt draw that distinction.
You say in your post:
He has a very good eye for goal lately and is extreamly dangerous right now.
By the same criteria like I laid out in my post guys like Ibrahimovic and Eto would have been the best players in the world last season. You need to judge Rooney on his skill set and again go look at some clips and see if theres a hint of similarity between Rooney and the guys in column A.
My so called bias has led me to say id be first to welcome Rooney at Arsenal and has led me to put him in the company of: Drogba, Shevchenko, Van Nistelrooy, Raul and my beloved Henry as a world class goal scorer. If you cant see the difference between the guys in column A and B and where Rooney fits thats fine not everyone has played the game and understands what separates these players.
cronaldo and rooney are very similar players, they definitely do not belong in different "columns" as you decided to state it. if anything cronaldo is column B to a greater degree than rooney. henry also doesn't belong in column b. (and he should have won a fifa player of the year award anyway. )
basically rooney was a fantastic player last season. this season he scores more than twice as many goals. obviously when he was already fantastic, this means he's stunningly great now, because he didn't lose all his other qualities. (although he does defend less now than before. )
messi is still better. cronaldo ends up without a title and he has missed a significant amount of games due to injury. it's not his season. messi does need a title to be #1 though, if argentina doesnt win wc, barcelona doesnt win la liga or cl, and rooney wins two out of three for WC, CL or PL then he should get player of the year even if messi is better.
Considering how important it is to perform in the WC if you want the Ballon d'Or and FIFA World Player of the Year-award, they won't neccesarily go to either Rooney or Messi even if they keep it up for the remainder of the season. Cannavaro, for instance, would not have won in 2006 if we take the WC out of the equation, Ronaldo was injured for most of the club season in 2002, etc. I can definitely see the awards go to someone like Xavi if he shines and leads Spain to the gold with a billion assists while Messi is invisible and Argentina gets knocked out in the quarter-finals. It will however take something extra special in terms of individual performance to get ahead of Messi, because you just can't ignore how insanely dominant he has been in Barca so far.
you guys are right that in a world cup year they do generally award it to the best player in the world cup and usually a player from the country that won it. Just looking on wikipedia it goes back to 1994 and in the 4 world cups since then a player from the country that won was awarded the player of the year. So yes thats one way neither Messi or Ronaldo could win it and Rooney could end up with it or another player. I resent being called a troll if anything its people making comments to get me emotionally provoked like comparing Rooney to Messi. If I wanted to troll id claim Fabregas or Van Persie being the best in the world and watch you guys snap.
Anyway, fuck both Messi and Rooney; I miss Ronaldo.
Combine a goal per game ratio around 0.70 in Italy and Spain (gets way higher if you add his time in Brazil and Netherlands), being the best goalscorer in the history of the WC (reaching 2 finals, winning one by scoring 2 goals in the final), having some of the best dribbling skills of all time (in the Barca/Inter days he was seriously unstoppable with his speed and technique, watch the youtube videos), 3 time World Player of the Year winner and you have, IMO, the GOAT; the fastest, most skilled, accurate, deadly, talented and feared striker in the history of the game. Ronaldo >> Maradona and Pele combined. Messi has a long way to go before he can even get close to catching up with Ronaldo.
Please come back to Europe! I don't care how fat and slow you are (you'll get your goals anyway), oh great one, I just wish to see you on a football pitch with my own eyes before you retire!
damn anyone else watching the Barca game right now? wtf is going on with Ibrahimovic nigga isnt even looking to shoot these days. Man I hope they find a way to score in the last 30 min cause with only a few games left it be a shame if we dont go into the el classico with Barca and Madrid tied at the top.
On March 25 2010 05:25 ArsenalGunners wrote: damn anyone else watching the Barca game right now? wtf is going on with Ibrahimovic nigga isnt even looking to shoot these days. Man I hope they find a way to score in the last 30 min cause with only a few games left it be a shame if we dont go into the el classico with Barca and Madrid tied at the top.
Barca's weakness. They've got no players who are able to score regularly their forwards excluded.
On March 25 2010 05:25 ArsenalGunners wrote: damn anyone else watching the Barca game right now? wtf is going on with Ibrahimovic nigga isnt even looking to shoot these days. Man I hope they find a way to score in the last 30 min cause with only a few games left it be a shame if we dont go into the el classico with Barca and Madrid tied at the top.
and Ibrahimovic scores! They seem really lacking without Xavi in midfield. Iniesta really picked up his game in the 2nd half for them though.
ibrahimovic just stays in the top doing nothing, he doesn't drop back to build on a play so he can score that pisses me off, i know he has te quality but he needs just the idea of what to do
Ya Ibrahimovic is a pretty lame striker in terms of how much ground he covers and how he pressures opposing defenders on the ball, which he does rarely. Hes like Berbatov in that way but he gets away with it. Still physically hes such a big guy and the great thing with him is you can just feed balls into him and have him shield his oponent and wait for support to arrive. Its impossible to move him of the ball and for such a big man he has amazingly quick feet as well. He was the game changer though in the first Barca/Madrid game this season hopefully he will be in similar form when they meet again. Important win but pretty lack luster by Barca standards.
On March 25 2010 03:02 Holgerius wrote: Anyway, fuck both Messi and Rooney; I miss Ronaldo.
Combine a goal per game ratio around 0.70 in Italy and Spain (gets way higher if you add his time in Brazil and Netherlands), being the best goalscorer in the history of the WC (reaching 2 finals, winning one by scoring 2 goals in the final), having some of the best dribbling skills of all time (in the Barca/Inter days he was seriously unstoppable with his speed and technique, watch the youtube videos), 3 time World Player of the Year winner and you have, IMO, the GOAT; the fastest, most skilled, accurate, deadly, talented and feared striker in the history of the game. Ronaldo >> Maradona and Pele combined. Messi has a long way to go before he can even get close to catching up with Ronaldo.
Please come back to Europe! I don't care how fat and slow you are (you'll get your goals anyway), oh great one, I just wish to see you on a football pitch with my own eyes before you retire!
real Ronaldo was sick honestly, if he wasn't injured half of the time....
If you still like Ronaldo, visit http://www.ronaldohome.com. It has up to date news on him, they also post links to streams of his games and some of his old highlights.
Also, this guy named palkogabor made an awesome Youtube series where he has all of ronaldos highlights from when He played at Cruzeiro all the way to now when he plays for Corinthians. It's in HD, and just an amazing playlist of highlights. I think something like 22 videos in all.
Roooooooooooooooooooonaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllldoooooooooooooooooo Ladies and Gentlemen.
Ya, without the injuries Ronaldo would've been the GOAT for sure. Now it's still arguable. Btw, would any other player be able to play for both Real/Barca and Inter/Milan and still be loved by everyone?
And Zlatan is great for Barca, he's able to fill a role they have lacked; the big and physically outstanding target man. He's having a rough time atm though.
Oh GranDe Rossi, thou art so great; The absent king's sceptre is in thy hand. Leading Roma to gold, that is thine fate; On Saturday thou willst the beast withstand!
4 point gap. Roma-Inter. This weekend. Watch it. Even an anglophile should be able to appreciate it.
On March 25 2010 09:38 Holgerius wrote: Ya, without the injuries Ronaldo would've been the GOAT for sure. Now it's still arguable. Btw, would any other player be able to play for both Real/Barca and Inter/Milan and still be loved by everyone?
And Zlatan is great for Barca, he's able to fill a role they have lacked; the big and physically outstanding target man. He's having a rough time atm though.
Oh GranDe Rossi, thou art so great; The absent king's sceptre is in thy hand. Leading Roma to gold, that is thine fate; On Saturday thou willst the beast withstand!
4 point gap. Roma-Inter. This weekend. Watch it. Even an anglophile should be able to appreciate it.
Cool stuff zerglingsfolife, thanks! <3 Ronaldo!
gogo ROMA!
on the other hand, Palermo has been amazing this year. Up and coming talents like Javier Pastore and Abel Hernández are playing enjoyable football!
EPT
