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On August 07 2016 02:44 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2016 10:43 CatharsisUT wrote:On August 06 2016 02:08 oBlade wrote:
Yes, I'm trying to fit speed that can't be scrambled and the afterburner seems to do it most directly. With just one T2 nano it orbits well over 1km/s at 15km, doesn't start slowing down a little until 10km. But I'm still looking. This comment ignores a significant underlying issue with your whole fitting process. What are you actually trying to do? When you undock, how will you kill things? Will you be flying alone or in a group? What targets are good for you and what are bad? You have to answer these questions to be able to craft a fit. Absolute first thing I noticed about your initial fit? It had no tackle at all. Adding a web is great for application, but anyone you fight even in that last fit is just going to warp off. So, you must be planning to fly this in a gang, right? If so, the ship choice and fit make very little sense. If you are in a gang and someone else is handling the tackle, why would you want to fit rockets and have to be right next to the target? Much better to fit a long-range weapon so that you can stay safe (this is why Oracles are so popular with this group). This fit also ignores the fact that with a 10mn AB it's going to take you forever to get to your target with your tiny rocket range. I'm not even going to address how pointless a "placeholder" is when the entire point of fitting in Eve is to determine that optimal selection of ship, modules, drugs, etc. to accomplish your goal. Just saying "free space!" means you have failed in that goal. Then we have different approaches to the game, I've always found my needs change fast enough that it's much more convenient to swap one module where I am than drop everything to go and get another whole ship. What I'm trying to make is something with speed and no sig radius. It may end up being an interceptor or Hookbill also. Or something else. Dual MWD/AB would be the same idea and maybe the best way for a Hawk.
I can't stop laughing at the absurdity of all this.
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When in doubt just nano your lows out.
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On August 07 2016 07:26 Ramiel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2016 02:44 oBlade wrote:On August 06 2016 10:43 CatharsisUT wrote:On August 06 2016 02:08 oBlade wrote:
Yes, I'm trying to fit speed that can't be scrambled and the afterburner seems to do it most directly. With just one T2 nano it orbits well over 1km/s at 15km, doesn't start slowing down a little until 10km. But I'm still looking. This comment ignores a significant underlying issue with your whole fitting process. What are you actually trying to do? When you undock, how will you kill things? Will you be flying alone or in a group? What targets are good for you and what are bad? You have to answer these questions to be able to craft a fit. Absolute first thing I noticed about your initial fit? It had no tackle at all. Adding a web is great for application, but anyone you fight even in that last fit is just going to warp off. So, you must be planning to fly this in a gang, right? If so, the ship choice and fit make very little sense. If you are in a gang and someone else is handling the tackle, why would you want to fit rockets and have to be right next to the target? Much better to fit a long-range weapon so that you can stay safe (this is why Oracles are so popular with this group). This fit also ignores the fact that with a 10mn AB it's going to take you forever to get to your target with your tiny rocket range. I'm not even going to address how pointless a "placeholder" is when the entire point of fitting in Eve is to determine that optimal selection of ship, modules, drugs, etc. to accomplish your goal. Just saying "free space!" means you have failed in that goal. Then we have different approaches to the game, I've always found my needs change fast enough that it's much more convenient to swap one module where I am than drop everything to go and get another whole ship. What I'm trying to make is something with speed and no sig radius. It may end up being an interceptor or Hookbill also. Or something else. Dual MWD/AB would be the same idea and maybe the best way for a Hawk. I can't stop laughing at the absurdity of all this.
I also found this chain of conversation amusing. Someone needs to post an update for me to read on what the current sov situation is in Eve.
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On August 06 2016 11:51 CatharsisUT wrote:
Ha I'm glad the rail Atron bat-signal still works.
I still lurk here, even if I have been unsubbed for a while.
It's also a good example of a well thought-out fit, which is actually part of the conversation that is going on right now. It is designed to do max dps and application of it at T2 disruptor range with rails, be as fast and maneuverable as reasonably possible, and use a TD and speed/sig to mitigate incoming DPS instead of trying to tank it. It is fit to do exactly that, and there is nothing wasted. It is not cap stable, however, it has just enough capacitor power to kill a frigate or dessie of most varieties without capping itself out (assuming you have essentially maxed skills as you need it for both capacitor use and DPS). At under 10 million isk when fully outfitted with all of the faction ammo and nanite you need in a protracted fight, it is also quite an economical fit.
Obviously it is designed with just relatively basic implants and no links in mind, as improvements can be made in multiple ways with implants and different link setups, and if you want to get fancy, different faction mods can also help in a variety of ways. I definitely have the isk to afford that kind of stuff, but honestly, it feels far more sportsmanlike and more enjoyable to fly it like this. If you enjoy fishing, you'll know what I mean. Reeling in a 20 lb fish on 100lb test is not as impressive, skillful, or exciting as reeling in a 20 lb fish on 6lb test. This atron is basically 6lb test, as it is extremely fragile, yet still more than capable of reeling in some pretty big fish, relatively speaking.
Back to lurking.
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On August 07 2016 06:17 puerk wrote:i am super unsure but wanting a 10mn afterburning frigate i would most likely build it about this way: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ppA31bX.png) but i guess there is some issue with the lowslots, as it is not focussed enough
I have had success with 10mn AB wolf , 10mn AB retribution, and 10mn AB slicer. Retribution can fit a fairly nasty tank on it while still having a 10mn AB, however, it is significantly slower and less maneuverable than the other two. Wolf actually can tank quite a bit with just the bare shields, thanks to the resists and low sig on it, if you keep your speed up. Slicer is the least tanky but also the fastest and most maneuverable of the three. There are some cheap faction AB's make a massive difference on these ships, so I would advise spending some extra isk on those. I highly suggest flying with links, as a long scram range and reduction in sig makes a massive difference on these ships, but it is not required.
One fight in a wolf was me against a small 10ish man cruiser gang. I killed off multiple tackle frigates. At times I was literally flying right in the middle of their gang, but because of the speed and sig I was able to avoid all incoming damage. Was quite a hilarious fight.
Another one in my wolf - I found a lone zealot, and tackled it. It was brick tanked, but I was working my way through it. Suddenly an astero decloaks to try to help him. I rip it apart and get back on the Zealot. Then he comes back with a daredevil and a Vexor. GG me.
https://zkillboard.com/related/30003444/201402162000/
I had a 4vretribution once (firetail, retribution, comet, and merlin), where it looked like I could have literally killed them all, or at least 3 of them. Killed 1, and it was initially looking rough, but by cycling scrams I was able to make it so that no more than 1 of the remaining 3 could apply damage to me at any given time, so I could actually tank them with just my AAR even though I was out of charges. I was seconds from killing a second ship (the comet) when I got blapped by an arty cynabal piloted by robo that happened to see the fight and thought I would be fun to kill..... Fucking robo..... Notorious and Chriss were both there, as we were roaming, but this fight was pretty much a 1v4 until the very last second.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/39093921/
I've tried to come up with something that is 10mn AB and is a T1 frigate, but it really doesn't seem possible. It's too much fitting, and forces you to gimp the rest of the ship in ways that makes it pretty useless.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
Then we have different approaches to the game, I've always found my needs change fast enough that it's much more convenient to swap one module where I am than drop everything to go and get another whole ship. What I'm trying to make is something with speed and no sig radius. It may end up being an interceptor or Hookbill also. Or something else. Dual MWD/AB would be the same idea and maybe the best way for a Hawk.
This is exactly why some of my friends just have 30 fit pvp ships for different roles hanging around
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Hyrule19152 Posts
back in our day we'd have dozens of ships prefit for different roles. No need to refit anything. It helped that we were tremendously rich, of course
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On August 07 2016 06:17 puerk wrote:i am super unsure but wanting a 10mn afterburning frigate i would most likely build it about this way: but i guess there is some issue with the lowslots, as it is not focussed enough
The problem is a lot of ships are built to have MWDs and when you try to go against the grain with a huge afterburner, like Impervious says, it makes the rest difficult to balance. If you want to max out speed/sig, just on the drawing board for fun, the main factor is starting from low sig. The Claw's base stats are the best (as far as I can tell) so if you fit a 10MN afterburner on it and fill the 4 low slots with overdrives the speed/sig is over 140. That's higher than the Dramiel at 137.
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United States43219 Posts
On August 07 2016 11:26 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2016 06:17 puerk wrote:i am super unsure but wanting a 10mn afterburning frigate i would most likely build it about this way: but i guess there is some issue with the lowslots, as it is not focussed enough The problem is a lot of ships are built to have MWDs and when you try to go against the grain with a huge afterburner, like Impervious says, it makes the rest difficult to balance. If you want to max out speed/sig, just on the drawing board for fun, the main factor is starting from low sig. The Claw's base stats are the best (as far as I can tell) so if you fit a 10MN afterburner on it and fill the 4 low slots with overdrives the speed/sig is over 140. That's higher than the Dramiel at 137.
.............................
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Hyrule19152 Posts
oblade you need to realize that most of the people in this thread know a lot more about fits than you
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On August 07 2016 11:26 oBlade wrote:
fun
On August 07 2016 11:27 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2016 11:26 oBlade wrote:On August 07 2016 06:17 puerk wrote:i am super unsure but wanting a 10mn afterburning frigate i would most likely build it about this way: but i guess there is some issue with the lowslots, as it is not focussed enough The problem is a lot of ships are built to have MWDs and when you try to go against the grain with a huge afterburner, like Impervious says, it makes the rest difficult to balance. If you want to max out speed/sig, just on the drawing board for fun, the main factor is starting from low sig. The Claw's base stats are the best (as far as I can tell) so if you fit a 10MN afterburner on it and fill the 4 low slots with overdrives the speed/sig is over 140. That's higher than the Dramiel at 137. .............................
Associating fun with EVE can cause meltdowns in some.
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United States43219 Posts
It's not speed/sig that matters. It's speed during typical combat maneuvering/sig that matters. You're measuring something irrelevant and by trying to find the highest way of doing it you're making the thing that actually matters more fucked. ODIs aren't what you want on oversized AB ships. An ODI does not increase the speed/sig of a claw that is trying to hold a scram or a web on a target (let alone actually do any damage) by 1m/s. A ship can only turn so fast.
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thats why i put the polycarbon rigs in the fit, as low friction nozzles were only slightly better in align time
but without flying it i can not judge actual practical orbits
sometimes i would like for pyfa to give out smallest orbit with max velocity as an additional metric....
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United States43219 Posts
On August 07 2016 18:09 puerk wrote:
thats why i put the polycarbon rigs in the fit, as low friction nozzles were only slightly better in align time
but without flying it i can not judge actual practical orbits
sometimes i would like for pyfa to give out smallest orbit with max velocity as an additional metric....
Yeah, your polys were fine. I was responding to oblade.
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i know who you answered to, i thought it was still an ok decision to explain that part of my fit regarding that metric (speed in combat maneuvers), as i intended to get the idea of an 10mn ab to mitigate damage or flee the scene if i have to right + not have to fear screwing up my own application of damage
as i perceived those to be the most important aspects of a 10mn ab fit, opposed to the theoretical max damage or the ehp tank
i had very little success in pvp so far, but of those my biggest successes were in speed tanked drone cruisers, so the idea to mix the idea with the tristan comes quite naturally
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10MN AB frigates are really bad. If you want a kiting drone boat, you want an MWD shield tristan. End of story. If you can fly well, MWD frigates are more than maneuverable enough to speed tank / kite just about anything.
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On August 07 2016 23:26 Ramiel wrote:
Nano Panther
You smarmy fuck
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On August 07 2016 23:35 Body_Shield wrote:You smarmy fuck
:D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Someone should probably warn the people who never even had the breif hatchery deployment I did about the tough love policy (they shame you until you stop sucking)
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EPT
