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United Kingdom20326 Posts
But my main question is, I know nothing about it so will it be viable or should one always have some shield tank to handle random shots hitting or drones etc?
With that little EHP (no extender) you're a little vulnerable to just getting killed outright in a few seconds and that's not desirable for t2/pirate ships
Worth a mention, your sigrad is 45% higher in the second fit. You should always watch your sig radius and train skills like the shield rig skill that reduces drawbacks because sig rad is quite important. One example of that is that sig radius multiplies the tracking of enemy guns - having 45% more sigrad means that you're 1.45x easier to track so this obviously affects speed tanking.
T2 medium shield extender has more fitting requirements and increases sigrad by 7m vs the 3m of the azeotropic but you get extra shield hp as the payoff for that.
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So goons moved to Delve, after we were able to get a majority of our Super Fleet out of deklein and surrounding areas.
It actually has been quite a good move for goons, because instead of being trapped in Saranen doing nothing, we are out conquering Delve and taking from Lumpy. And we get to use a big super toys weeeee.
Seems like Test is coming to Delve after accepting a 1 trill contract? ANY confirm? https://i.sli.mg/1J7gOw.jpg
Party time!
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United States43828 Posts
On August 05 2016 16:48 Ota Solgryn wrote:Thanks, I'll start over with those points in mind. I do not neccesarily want a shield tank, hence the speed tank. But my main question is, I know nothing about it so will it be viable or should one always have some shield tank to handle random shots hitting or drones etc? In this new fit I'm guessing I need some shield "buffer" to close in on a target, meaning activation of invul etc. Then when I am in range for speed tanking I have stable cab to keep all things on except invul, where ships should not hit me. On another topic. Do you play any other games now that EVE is no longer eating your time? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/srGQzK9.png) I cannot believe I didnt see the pulsevsbeam difference myself...
This is a much stronger fit. Invuln may be unnecessary because you have so much native tank, especially with the t2 resist rigs, you might want to consider a web which gives you more control and the ability to nuke drones. But with bonused AB + scram you don't need the web for escape, even if they have scram/web/ab, and invuln ramps up your tank a lot. Web would mostly be for shit like when you want to hold someone off gate in a fleet situation or drones now I think about it. I mean I like webs but the succubus AB is so strong by itself.
Drop the T2 MSE for a RF MSE, same shields if I recall correctly but lower sig. On a 300m sig tanked ship it's worth it. I might also drop one heat sink for a nano and then use the CPU freed up to t2 the invuln and scram. Also I suspect the reason you have IN HS is cpu limitations so it'd probably let you shave 200m isk off the fit.
Overall though, I like it.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/080nrHt.png)
That is how I prefer to fit mine. Have killed many a DD and Cruor in it. Unless you have snkaes / links then you can fit AB and then make the rest of the fit better.
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On August 05 2016 23:50 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2016 16:48 Ota Solgryn wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Thanks, I'll start over with those points in mind. I do not neccesarily want a shield tank, hence the speed tank. But my main question is, I know nothing about it so will it be viable or should one always have some shield tank to handle random shots hitting or drones etc? In this new fit I'm guessing I need some shield "buffer" to close in on a target, meaning activation of invul etc. Then when I am in range for speed tanking I have stable cab to keep all things on except invul, where ships should not hit me. On another topic. Do you play any other games now that EVE is no longer eating your time? I cannot believe I didnt see the pulsevsbeam difference myself... This is a much stronger fit. Invuln may be unnecessary because you have so much native tank, especially with the t2 resist rigs, you might want to consider a web which gives you more control and the ability to nuke drones. But with bonused AB + scram you don't need the web for escape, even if they have scram/web/ab, and invuln ramps up your tank a lot. Web would mostly be for shit like when you want to hold someone off gate in a fleet situation or drones now I think about it. I mean I like webs but the succubus AB is so strong by itself. Drop the T2 MSE for a RF MSE, same shields if I recall correctly but lower sig. On a 300m sig tanked ship it's worth it. I might also drop one heat sink for a nano and then use the CPU freed up to t2 the invuln and scram. Also I suspect the reason you have IN HS is cpu limitations so it'd probably let you shave 200m isk off the fit. Overall though, I like it.
Thanks, appreciate the comments and advice.
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On August 05 2016 14:05 CatharsisUT wrote:
Well the fit seems better, so I won't go too nuts.
That was just generic Hawk fit.
On August 05 2016 14:05 CatharsisUT wrote:1. You don't have to use every high slot. Empty highs are fairly common, particularly on frigates. You don't need a "placeholder" or anything else, that's nonsense, it's just using CPU/PG that could be better spent elsewhere. That said, an autocannon is often a decent choice since they use no cap to fire and the 125's in particular take virtually no fitting.
I'm feeling like you don't know what "placeholder" means.
On August 05 2016 14:05 CatharsisUT wrote:4. To the prior point on fitting process, your first decision is what you want the ship to do. Oversized AB's are good in very specific situations; when you want to move fairly fast in a straight line and be able to ignore scrams. You can't turn and keep up any level of speed. Generally you'll need good projection to do this, so rockets probably won't work.
Yes, I'm trying to fit speed that can't be scrambled and the afterburner seems to do it most directly. With just one T2 nano it orbits well over 1km/s at 15km, doesn't start slowing down a little until 10km. But I'm still looking.
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United States43828 Posts
On August 06 2016 02:08 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2016 14:05 CatharsisUT wrote:1. You don't have to use every high slot. Empty highs are fairly common, particularly on frigates. You don't need a "placeholder" or anything else, that's nonsense, it's just using CPU/PG that could be better spent elsewhere. That said, an autocannon is often a decent choice since they use no cap to fire and the 125's in particular take virtually no fitting. I'm feeling like you don't know what "placeholder" means.
No, a placeholder would be leaving it empty and saying "I could put various things there".
What you did was deliberately fucked other areas of the fit in order to fit a railgun there. It wasn't just sitting there inactive like if it had been offlined, it had an impact across the entire fit. Placeholders don't demand fitting requirements that fuck up your rig slots and force you to waste a tackle mid on an EM resist which in turn negates your ability to do any damage. Instead of being snarky to your betters why don't you wise up and shut up. You posted a fail fit that demonstrated a colossal ignorance of the game and CatharsisUT volunteered some of his time to help you with that.
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On August 06 2016 02:08 oBlade wrote:
Yes, I'm trying to fit speed that can't be scrambled and the afterburner seems to do it most directly. With just one T2 nano it orbits well over 1km/s at 15km, doesn't start slowing down a little until 10km. But I'm still looking.
10km is a pretty important range cutoff for a brawling frigate. Has to do with the key missing module(s) on your first fit.
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United States43828 Posts
Also the rockets don't go 10km when you're moving at speed.
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On August 06 2016 02:17 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2016 02:08 oBlade wrote:On August 05 2016 14:05 CatharsisUT wrote:1. You don't have to use every high slot. Empty highs are fairly common, particularly on frigates. You don't need a "placeholder" or anything else, that's nonsense, it's just using CPU/PG that could be better spent elsewhere. That said, an autocannon is often a decent choice since they use no cap to fire and the 125's in particular take virtually no fitting. I'm feeling like you don't know what "placeholder" means. No, a placeholder would be leaving it empty and saying "I could put various things there". What you did was deliberately fucked other areas of the fit in order to fit a railgun there. It wasn't just sitting there inactive like if it had been offlined, it had an impact across the entire fit. Placeholders don't demand fitting requirements that fuck up your rig slots and force you to waste a tackle mid on an EM resist which in turn negates your ability to do any damage. Instead of being snarky to your betters why don't you wise up and shut up. You posted a fail fit that demonstrated a colossal ignorance of the game and CatharsisUT volunteered some of his time to help you with that.
If you leave something empty, then its place isn't being held by anything. Hence "placeholder." If you try to save your seat at the movie theater by putting nothing on it, you may find someone else sitting in it when you return from the bathroom. It's a placeholder because like I told you on the last page, you can do substitute whatever you want with the slot. Like if you see a T1 turret on a missile boat or a passive targeting array, that should communicate "this slot could hold many things, do whatever you want with it, like put a web there instead of losing your civility over it." If I left a slot empty, that would mean to leave the slot empty. I'll be explicit in the future so there's no miscommunication.
The railgun had nothing to do with the first "fit," it's something I tacked on at the end. Since you don't have pyfa I'll just show why:
+ Show Spoiler +Here's the first pic with railgun and 2nd power rig removed: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lobrqyU.png) We can't even fit two small boosters, let alone one medium: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ky3LO2B.png) A power core can fit two small boosters, but it can't fit a medium booster because we already have the afterburner, and we want to combine the boosters into one slot for reasons you already elucidated. Why do we want boosters at all? - It's another Hawk bonus. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GsLDTW7.png) And if we have to have two things boosting power, I'd rather have them be rigs than low modules that 1) eat CPU 2) block nanos that we might want to help with the afterburner. What it seems you really want to say, but you're projecting it everywhere else, is you don't like the oversized afterburner. That I get. But I'm not building anything around a T1 turret. It's built around the afterburner as you can see.
On August 06 2016 03:40 CatharsisUT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2016 02:08 oBlade wrote:
Yes, I'm trying to fit speed that can't be scrambled and the afterburner seems to do it most directly. With just one T2 nano it orbits well over 1km/s at 15km, doesn't start slowing down a little until 10km. But I'm still looking. 10km is a pretty important range cutoff for a brawling frigate. Has to do with the key missing module(s) on your first fit.
I want to clarify it doesn't seem to underperform a normal afterburner once you get that close. Within scramble range it might. This is where I am now but I'll keep squeezing.
+ Show Spoiler +
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United States43828 Posts
You don't need to put something in an empty slot to let people know anything could be there. That's what an empty slot conveys. If you proceed to put something in an empty slot then that message is lost because instead of "anything could be there" there is now something there so the new message is "something is here, this is taken".
Imagine you were doing a seating plan for a wedding. The way you would indicate that a seat was not taken is not by putting Uncle Mike on the seating plan in that seat and then saying "yeah but I told Mike to move if anyone else wants that seat". Once you put Uncle Mike in that seat then people will think that's Uncle Mike's seat. Nobody goes up to a seat with someone already sitting in it and says "is this seat taken?". You leave the seat empty if you want people to think that it can be filled interchangeably.
A placeholder only makes sense if the place will inevitably close should you fail to hold it open. Nobody is going to steal your empty high slot if you leave it empty the way that might happen with a seat. Using a placeholder in a situation in which the only reason something gets filled is if you deliberately chose to fill it is unbelievably counter-intuitive. That's not a placeholder, that's a placefiller. The place is no longer being held, the place has been taken by a railgun.
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On August 06 2016 02:08 oBlade wrote:
Yes, I'm trying to fit speed that can't be scrambled and the afterburner seems to do it most directly. With just one T2 nano it orbits well over 1km/s at 15km, doesn't start slowing down a little until 10km. But I'm still looking.
This comment ignores a significant underlying issue with your whole fitting process. What are you actually trying to do? When you undock, how will you kill things? Will you be flying alone or in a group? What targets are good for you and what are bad? You have to answer these questions to be able to craft a fit.
Absolute first thing I noticed about your initial fit? It had no tackle at all. Adding a web is great for application, but anyone you fight even in that last fit is just going to warp off. So, you must be planning to fly this in a gang, right? If so, the ship choice and fit make very little sense. If you are in a gang and someone else is handling the tackle, why would you want to fit rockets and have to be right next to the target? Much better to fit a long-range weapon so that you can stay safe (this is why Oracles are so popular with this group). This fit also ignores the fact that with a 10mn AB it's going to take you forever to get to your target with your tiny rocket range.
I'm not even going to address how pointless a "placeholder" is when the entire point of fitting in Eve is to determine that optimal selection of ship, modules, drugs, etc. to accomplish your goal. Just saying "free space!" means you have failed in that goal.
I hadn't looked at beam Succubi before, they are actually pretty cool. For lowsec, you can do a much-improved version of the AB/web/long-point Atron. Easily pull range on anything without dual webs, and with the tracking bonus plus AB sig, you do fine against kiters. If you add snakes/links you'll likely catch them as well:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4XiONV7.png)
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Did it just get very nostalgia in here for the past couple pages or is it just me
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On August 06 2016 10:43 CatharsisUT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2016 02:08 oBlade wrote:
Yes, I'm trying to fit speed that can't be scrambled and the afterburner seems to do it most directly. With just one T2 nano it orbits well over 1km/s at 15km, doesn't start slowing down a little until 10km. But I'm still looking. This comment ignores a significant underlying issue with your whole fitting process. What are you actually trying to do? When you undock, how will you kill things? Will you be flying alone or in a group? What targets are good for you and what are bad? You have to answer these questions to be able to craft a fit. Absolute first thing I noticed about your initial fit? It had no tackle at all. Adding a web is great for application, but anyone you fight even in that last fit is just going to warp off. So, you must be planning to fly this in a gang, right? If so, the ship choice and fit make very little sense. If you are in a gang and someone else is handling the tackle, why would you want to fit rockets and have to be right next to the target? Much better to fit a long-range weapon so that you can stay safe (this is why Oracles are so popular with this group). This fit also ignores the fact that with a 10mn AB it's going to take you forever to get to your target with your tiny rocket range. I'm not even going to address how pointless a "placeholder" is when the entire point of fitting in Eve is to determine that optimal selection of ship, modules, drugs, etc. to accomplish your goal. Just saying "free space!" means you have failed in that goal. I hadn't looked at beam Succubi before, they are actually pretty cool. For lowsec, you can do a much-improved version of the AB/web/long-point Atron. Easily pull range on anything without dual webs, and with the tracking bonus plus AB sig, you do fine against kiters. If you add snakes/links you'll likely catch them as well:
Every time I see something like this, I feel a need to chime in.
MWD/point/TD 150mm railtron is superior to AB/web imo. It takes some finesse to fly, but it can engage much more things successfully overall.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/45095376/
That fit. Tight, and requires a CPU implant, which last time I checked was dirt cheap. Can be fit slightly more CPU minded instead and work effectively without an implant. I have had some stupidly good success with that fit, even against people that knew what they were up against and trying to counter me.
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Ha I'm glad the rail Atron bat-signal still works.
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Hyrule19200 Posts
On August 06 2016 11:03 Body_Shield wrote:
Did it just get very nostalgia in here for the past couple pages or is it just me
it's like 2012 all over again
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
On August 06 2016 11:03 Body_Shield wrote:
Did it just get very nostalgia in here for the past couple pages or is it just me
I feel the same. Most activity we've had in years maybe?
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On August 06 2016 10:43 CatharsisUT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2016 02:08 oBlade wrote:
Yes, I'm trying to fit speed that can't be scrambled and the afterburner seems to do it most directly. With just one T2 nano it orbits well over 1km/s at 15km, doesn't start slowing down a little until 10km. But I'm still looking. This comment ignores a significant underlying issue with your whole fitting process. What are you actually trying to do? When you undock, how will you kill things? Will you be flying alone or in a group? What targets are good for you and what are bad? You have to answer these questions to be able to craft a fit. Absolute first thing I noticed about your initial fit? It had no tackle at all. Adding a web is great for application, but anyone you fight even in that last fit is just going to warp off. So, you must be planning to fly this in a gang, right? If so, the ship choice and fit make very little sense. If you are in a gang and someone else is handling the tackle, why would you want to fit rockets and have to be right next to the target? Much better to fit a long-range weapon so that you can stay safe (this is why Oracles are so popular with this group). This fit also ignores the fact that with a 10mn AB it's going to take you forever to get to your target with your tiny rocket range. I'm not even going to address how pointless a "placeholder" is when the entire point of fitting in Eve is to determine that optimal selection of ship, modules, drugs, etc. to accomplish your goal. Just saying "free space!" means you have failed in that goal.
Then we have different approaches to the game, I've always found my needs change fast enough that it's much more convenient to swap one module where I am than drop everything to go and get another whole ship. What I'm trying to make is something with speed and no sig radius. It may end up being an interceptor or Hookbill also. Or something else. Dual MWD/AB would be the same idea and maybe the best way for a Hawk.
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I dunno about you guys, but I think I just heard a angry british man inform me that I'm fucking shit and why the fuck did I agress that domi before he told me to.
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i am super unsure but wanting a 10mn afterburning frigate i would most likely build it about this way:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ppA31bX.png)
but i guess there is some issue with the lowslots, as it is not focussed enough
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/af5qzJK.png)
