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On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area. That sounds terrible. I didn't think that was even possible in city sims. Even the oldest city sim I know of in existence (the original Sim City) as different levels of service depending on number of buildings and funding, and different growth/value depending on it.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
I don't understand how that would be the case. wouldn't multiple different service buildings alone with land-value-increasing things be more work and more difficult to fit in that just a clump of hospitals?
Why is it easy to gain land value? why does clumping service buildings nearby make that more difficult? I guess that service buildings lower land value? If so, then what increases it?
I feel like the challenge level might be disappointing. Perhaps great for kids, but when one's a big a gamer or just intelligent adult, I suspect it might get boring without significant challenges.
The fact that there's no disasters (riots, terrorist attacks, hurricanes, [major] fires, [major] car/plane crashes, natural water shortages, variable wind&water currents), nor neighboring/competing cities is disappointing.
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On March 13 2015 05:00 Don_Julio wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:35 SixStrings wrote:
Is there a game like this that takes places in the middle ages or antiquity? Banished comes pretty close but it's more a village builder not a city builder. Other than that maybe Stronghold but it's mostly combat focused. For antiquity the good, old Caesar games. Maybe someone creates a full-conversion mod for C:S. Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 04:53 LaNague wrote:On March 13 2015 00:36 Chro wrote:On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:i found several crippling flaws in the simulation, read and you will possibly destroy your enjoyment of the game This game isnt that great yet. + Show Spoiler +
If workers cant find a path to work or get stuck in traffic for too long, it will not affect anything.
To test it, i made industril zones disconnected from residental and the workers will just stay home, but will still work there until they die.
This kills any incentive you have to keep commute times reasonable or even possible.
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
Bus stations attract people even if they cant handle the load, combine with my first flaw and you can empty all the streets by trapping workers in bus stations, it has no consequence that they never reach work again.
Good news is that anything involving FREIGHT works flawlessly from what i can tell. So its a design decision to have the people simulation being all fluff and no substance. So they either have to add the possibility to add consequences for bad city management or fix it themselves. Overall, the game is very easy even without abusing the simulation, i hope substance will get added because the whole traffic management is a pretty good base for a game. Unsure why this is a big deal, it reminds me of people complaining in skyrim that you can do an infinite loop of making potions to make your enchanting better so you can make better alchemy enchantments on armor and just get insane +% with potions and gear. Its only an issue if you, as a player, exploit it. If you worry about traffic just as much and keep on fixing it so it works correctly then its a non-issue. Its not like you can 'win' at this game anyways. You're only cheating to make your city better for.... no idea. So you feel like you beat the game or something? commute times have zero effect, thats what this results into when you dont intentionally exploit. Which is weak for a game that claims to simulate individual people. I kind of agree with their design decision. Citizens getting stuck in the traffic for infinite time could totally ruin a city if you had just a single jammed spot. Traffic jams still have severe negative effects: Your service cars get stuck and goods won't arrive at stores and industry which will result in abandoned and burned down buildings. It's a fair copromise. Traffic is important and quite a challenge to manage.
Thanks for your recommendation, but alas, Banished was a matter of three hours until I had a perfect, self-sustaining society and a full tech tree. Beautiful game otherwise.
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Looks good but I'm over building simulation games now.
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On March 13 2015 10:53 SixStrings wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 05:00 Don_Julio wrote:On March 13 2015 04:35 SixStrings wrote:
Is there a game like this that takes places in the middle ages or antiquity? Banished comes pretty close but it's more a village builder not a city builder. Other than that maybe Stronghold but it's mostly combat focused. For antiquity the good, old Caesar games. Maybe someone creates a full-conversion mod for C:S. On March 13 2015 04:53 LaNague wrote:On March 13 2015 00:36 Chro wrote:On March 12 2015 06:07 LaNague wrote:i found several crippling flaws in the simulation, read and you will possibly destroy your enjoyment of the game This game isnt that great yet. + Show Spoiler +
If workers cant find a path to work or get stuck in traffic for too long, it will not affect anything.
To test it, i made industril zones disconnected from residental and the workers will just stay home, but will still work there until they die.
This kills any incentive you have to keep commute times reasonable or even possible.
Buildings upgrade simply based on the number of service buidlings in the area, it can be 5 useless hospitals in a row, or 5 schools to upgrade an industrial area.
I have the suspicion they did this because upgrading based on landvalue/education and services would mean everyone always has max upgrades because the game is weay too easy.
Bus stations attract people even if they cant handle the load, combine with my first flaw and you can empty all the streets by trapping workers in bus stations, it has no consequence that they never reach work again.
Good news is that anything involving FREIGHT works flawlessly from what i can tell. So its a design decision to have the people simulation being all fluff and no substance. So they either have to add the possibility to add consequences for bad city management or fix it themselves. Overall, the game is very easy even without abusing the simulation, i hope substance will get added because the whole traffic management is a pretty good base for a game. Unsure why this is a big deal, it reminds me of people complaining in skyrim that you can do an infinite loop of making potions to make your enchanting better so you can make better alchemy enchantments on armor and just get insane +% with potions and gear. Its only an issue if you, as a player, exploit it. If you worry about traffic just as much and keep on fixing it so it works correctly then its a non-issue. Its not like you can 'win' at this game anyways. You're only cheating to make your city better for.... no idea. So you feel like you beat the game or something? commute times have zero effect, thats what this results into when you dont intentionally exploit. Which is weak for a game that claims to simulate individual people. I kind of agree with their design decision. Citizens getting stuck in the traffic for infinite time could totally ruin a city if you had just a single jammed spot. Traffic jams still have severe negative effects: Your service cars get stuck and goods won't arrive at stores and industry which will result in abandoned and burned down buildings. It's a fair copromise. Traffic is important and quite a challenge to manage. Thanks for your recommendation, but alas, Banished was a matter of three hours until I had a perfect, self-sustaining society and a full tech tree. Beautiful game otherwise.
i like children of the nile, but its pretty slow even for my germaness.
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On March 13 2015 00:45 BurningSera wrote:
god i am getting this after work today. been nearly a decade for a proper city builder ffs
Honestly what happened to that era? I just remember playing Caesar 2 for weeks on end, then Caesar 3, pharaoh...just quality city building game after city building game. Really miss it 
Off topic, also very much miss flight sims like TIE fighter. 
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On March 13 2015 04:35 SixStrings wrote:
Is there a game like this that takes places in the middle ages or antiquity?
Banished.
It's really great game until you hit like 30 hours. After that there is nothing new to see, no challenges. Mods may make it better (new buildings).
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someone used the bugs we discovered and made a 650k pop residental/office spam city, which was also used top show how broken simcity 2013 really is on the inside.
This game has the same depth to it as simcity 2013, its just bigger. Sorry.
Features almost no traffix, workers staying home, no commercial (could even reduce demand to almost zero by using parks, but not needed)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5r3STWG.jpg)
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
You seem so mad about this. Simcity games are a creative outlet for me, not a form of competition. It's like telling people that drawing is "broken gg sry" because you can trace someone else's pictures.
It'd be nice if they addressed this, but it's just not that concerning compared to an equivalent bug in League of Legends or some other competitive game.
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On March 14 2015 05:10 GrandInquisitor wrote:
You seem so mad about this. Simcity games are a creative outlet for me, not a form of competition. It's like telling people that drawing is "broken gg sry" because you can trace someone else's pictures.
It'd be nice if they addressed this, but it's just not that concerning compared to an equivalent bug in League of Legends or some other competitive game.
My thoughts exactly. I've been having way more fun just making something interesting and using space well, rather than going for UTTER OPTIMIZATION and exploiting game mechanics...
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By the looks of the picture it is also running a mere 1.5 million deficit.
That is like complaining a shooter is to easy while using god mode.
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I can appreciate your PoV, GrandInquisitor, but a lot of people like myself have been waiting for a properly challenging and not-broken challenging mayor-Sim with depth for more than a decade. SimCity 4 and the Tilted Mill games were the last really great ones of the genre.
It really is quite disappointing. :|
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On March 14 2015 05:20 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I can appreciate your PoV, GrandInquisitor, but a lot of people like myself have been waiting for a properly challenging and not-broken challenging mayor-Sim with depth for more than a decade. SimCity 4 and the Tilted Mill games were the last really great ones of the genre.
It really is quite disappointing. :|
did you try the included hard mode?
regarding the 650k city I am not too worried about that because he is playing with ulimited money on
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well its nice you have, but when i play this game, every few hours i come across a bug that kills my onjoyment.
I was planning all those nice roads and stuff to make my communte faster, but that just has no result except losing more money.
Then i tried out public transport and discovered that bus stops are blackholes that suck in people and clean the streets of them.
Then i wondered why my industry park isnt leveling up and discovered i just have to mindlessly plop down fire stations around it and it will go max level.
Then i made a new city and after an hour i wondered why my commercial demand is zero, it rurns out all monuments and parks reduce commercial demand because their visitor spaces counts as commercial shop space.
So, every time i try to build a nice little realistic town, the bugs/design choices come in and totally squash me and FORCE me to play gamey when i try to do the opposite.
I cant have any commercial if i build a nice little town for example.
Thats why i am angry, not because i want a competetive game, i want to build a nice little realistic town, but i can not do so. Its basically the opposite of what you accuse me of.
I cant build a town just like i could not in simcity.
the picture/savegame shows off broken simulation, it was puit together quickly to show what an "optimal" city would look like with this kind of simulation, just like the "optimal" simcity2013 city was all commercial no traffic.
It tells something about the simulation and what it steers players towards.
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On March 14 2015 05:20 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I can appreciate your PoV, GrandInquisitor, but a lot of people like myself have been waiting for a properly challenging and not-broken challenging mayor-Sim with depth for more than a decade. SimCity 4 and the Tilted Mill games were the last really great ones of the genre.
It really is quite disappointing. :|
Again. this is possible because of a cheat, the city is running a 1.5 million deficit.
Now it may well be possible to "break" the game without cheating mods/assets (donno if the latter were used) but using this as an example how the game is broken is just dumb.
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i just explained why the sample city is relevant, you have no place to call me dumb.
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Before it escalates here dont flame each other
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On March 14 2015 05:29 LaNague wrote:
well its nice you have, but when i play this game, every few hours i come across a bug that kills my onjoyment.
I was planning all those nice roads and stuff to make my communte faster, but that just has no result except losing more money.
Then i tried out public transport and discovered that bus stops are blackholes that suck in people and clean the streets of them.
Then i wondered why my industry park isnt leveling up and discovered i just have to mindlessly plop down fire stations around it and it will go max level.
Then i made a new city and after an hour i wondered why my commercial demand is zero, it rurns out all monuments and parks reduce commercial demand because their visitor spaces counts as commercial shop space.
So, every time i try to build a nice little realistic town, the bugs/design choices come in and totally squash me and FORCE me to play gamey when i try to do the opposite.
I cant have any commercial if i build a nice little town for example.
Thats why i am angry, not because i want a competetive game, i want to build a nice little realistic town, but i can not do so. Its basically the opposite of what you accuse me of.
I cant build a town just like i could not in simcity.
the picture/savegame shows off broken simulation, it was puit together quickly to show what an "optimal" city would look like with this kind of simulation, just like the "optimal" simcity2013 city was all commercial no traffic.
It tells something about the simulation and what it steers players towards.
How does it force you to play gamey?
Black hole buses only exist if you specifically make them black holes, a 'normal' bus line will work (sometimes badly) as you would expect.
Mindless service leveling is only an issue if you chose to plump down random shit.
Commercial its harder to comment on, I dont know the level of parks that would be needed but your missing out on income by skipping Commercial.
If your mind forces you to use them exploits just because you know they exist then yes you have an issue but if you just wanne building your nice little realistic town you will not run into any of them.
Yes things could get better, yes I hope they fix some of them, yes i hope mods can fix what the developers don't, but I have yet to see a serious exploit that does not require actively doing it for it to affect gameplay.
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I agree with LaNague. A big part of city building games is the immersion that it is simulating a city. Quite frankly, teleporting workers, ergo pointless public transport, services, no matter which type = levelling, there just too many things that makes no sense. It's not a matter of exploiting, it's just a matter of that it just simply doesn't make sense. It is totally a legitimate gameplay issue.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
No simulation is perfect, and every simulation takes shortcuts. I guess I just don't see how these particular shortcuts are supposed to detract from the game if you aren't playing it "competitively". I have had zero issues building my city up. I don't need twenty fire stations in my industrial zone to level them up and my buses run perfectly fine. And I'm still motivated to fix traffic jams for the pleasure of it, and it seems like my city is better off, though I agree that I'm not absolutely clear on how traffic negatively affects me.
The parks killing commercial demand -- yes, I can understand that that sucks. But showing me a city built with unlimited money running a $1.5m deficit exhibiting unexpected behavior - yawn.
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EPT
